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Hotaru Murasaki - Re:TrymenT

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Koiyuki
2,531 posts
Joined March 2013
Koiyuki
rechecked

the machine also shows soft-hitclap2 is unused but i found it used in the main diff, so it may be a bug imo
so i decide to ignore it

bubbled
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

Koiyuki wrote:

rechecked

the machine also shows soft-hitclap2 is unused but i found it used in the main diff, so it may be a bug imo
so i decide to ignore it

bubbled
thank you Koiyuki chan ;)
Naxess
Nomination Assessment Team
390 posts
Joined March 2016
Naxess
Greetings,

The way things are emphasized in the top difficulty doesn't really follow the song well; both in terms of spacing as well as rhythm. In my opinion this should definitely be improved upon before potentially moving this into the ranked section.

  • [Re:TraumenD]
    00:06:416 (1,2) - 00:07:048 (3,4) - In this case (2) is weaker than (4), yet the map implies the opposite. Same sort of thing can be seen at 00:07:679 (1,2,3) - with (2) and (3), 00:16:205 (4,5,1) - etc. Especially noticeable in kiai with parts like 00:58:995 (6,7,8,1) - 01:01:363 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - 01:03:258 (1,2,3) - 01:04:048 (6,7,8,1) - 01:05:153 (3,4,5,6,1) - 01:09:416 (9,1,2) - and so on, you get the idea. At first I was thinking perhaps lower spacing was used for emphasis, but it's inconsistently used almost as if the song wasn't followed at all, which makes any kind of emphasis by spacing ambiguous and disconnected from the song.

    00:10:679 (3,4,1,2,1) - This buildup is lacking contrast in spacing and as such it seems like any other part prior to it, despite piano impacts being way more powerful than before.

    00:19:521 - The climax here is basically ignored as the 1/2 jump spam continues with 00:19:679 (5) - . Could be solved by making 00:19:521 - a 1/2 slider.

    00:22:205 - The tickrate becomes pretty intrusive here and in the calm sections of the song. Since we can't silence them I'd suggest using tickrate 1 instead, for all difficulties in the set.

    00:22:837 - Rhythm seems unrepresentative of the song here. Preferably 00:23:469 - and 00:25:995 - would be presented differently from 00:24:732 - as it is in the song. Additionally, 00:27:890 (1,2,3,4,5) - feels odd considering that both vocals as well as piano are skipped at 00:28:521 - and 00:28:837 - respectively. Would probably be more reflective like this.

    00:41:627 - Syncopation occurs here, which means that the downbeat would be skipped, and it is, yet the map still goes on as if nothing happened or as if the baseline is stronger, which it doesn't even follow.

    00:42:100 (2,3,4,1,2,3) - These are all gradually decreasing in pitch, yet the map seems to imply that 00:42:416 (4,1) - is worth emphasizing with an anti-jump despite being similar to the others. I mean it's an interesting idea but I doubt it fits here when considering what the song has to offer. The latter combo would also probably work better with lower spacing to reflect that the pitch is going down, rather than higher.

    00:43:995 (5,6,1) - Both a strong vocal on 00:43:995 - as well as piano on 00:44:153 - are under emphasized due to 00:44:311 (1) - being there and also equally spaced in comparison, yet holding no similarly important sound. Would suggest some differentiation, for example by making 00:44:153 - a 1/2 slider in accordance with the drums and piano.

    00:44:469 (1,2,3) - This triple is emphasizing 00:44:627 - for whatever reason while the beginning and end are of basically same strength. Similarly here, 00:44:784 (4) - is also taking away from the potential contrast that could be made here to make things stand out properly. By making 00:44:627 - a 1/2 slider and removing 00:44:548 (2) - , you'd establish contrast as well as making 00:44:153 - 00:44:469 - 00:44:627 - coherent rhythmically, similarly to how 00:46:679 (1,2) - was done.

    00:50:232 (5) - There are four sounds in the vicinity so ideally there would be 4 points of impact as well, rather than 3, since 00:50:153 (4,5,6) - really only emphasizes 00:50:311 - as a result. Same point can be applied to 00:56:153 (4,5,6) - and probably other similar triples. Things like 00:53:469 (2,3,4) - and 00:54:258 (7,8,1) - are fine though since they're clearly supported by the song and the sounds are all part of the same layer.

    00:56:784 (9,1) - Spacing these like this is probably not a good idea. In terms of vocals and drums, 00:56:784 - is the climax, so stopping motion there would reflect that. You can also emphasize 00:56:942 - even more by making it a triple, since there's a sound at 00:56:863 - . So something like this, for instance.

    Overall it seems like all the jump patterns are lacking a defined structure and concept. This is especially noticeable in the kiai. Angles and distance are seemingly random and the same applies visually. There isn't really anything that allows sounds to stand out properly either, with exception of rhythm, as most points of impact are just emphasized with the same or contradicting spacing regardless of strength or layer. This is honestly far from what I would expect from a ranked map, and for these reasons I will decide to veto this mapset until a compromise has been reached.
TL;DR: Emphasis and correlation are lacking due to low contrast as well as contradictions in spacing.

Regardless, I'll need to pop this as there are conflicting timing settings in vellya's Extra at 00:02:627 - , which is unrankable as to avoid technical issues. This can be fixed by giving both timing lines the same volume setting and custom sample set.
Satellite
3,683 posts
Joined June 2012
Satellite
Hello o/

I confirmed suggestion of Naxess and performed mod to eLy.

Good Luck!
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

Satellite wrote:

Hello o/

I confirmed suggestion of Naxess and performed mod to eLy.

Good Luck!
IRC
2017-07-30 01:06 eLy: 00:58:995 (6,7,8,1) - 
2017-07-30 01:06 eLy: こことかは？
2017-07-30 01:06 Satellite: よんでないけど
2017-07-30 01:06 Satellite: 00:58:679 (3,4,5) - 個々の３連打
2017-07-30 01:07 Satellite: 00:59:153 (7) - ここといれかえて
2017-07-30 01:07 eLy: ふむ
2017-07-30 01:07 Satellite: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8711481
2017-07-30 01:08 Satellite: あがっていくながれにしたいなあって
2017-07-30 01:08 Satellite: おもっただけなので
2017-07-30 01:08 Satellite: modみてきます
2017-07-30 01:08 eLy: ｗｗｗ
2017-07-30 01:08 eLy: コレニシマツｗ
2017-07-30 01:09 Satellite: べつにこれは
2017-07-30 01:09 Satellite: どっちでもいいけど
2017-07-30 01:09 Satellite: ぼくのていあんどおりにしてもんだいがないなら
2017-07-30 01:09 Satellite: かえちゃえばとおるとおもう
2017-07-30 01:10 Satellite: １こ１こ
2017-07-30 01:10 Satellite: いってくれれば提案するけど 
2017-07-30 01:11 Satellite: きになったところ
2017-07-30 01:11 eLy: 01:09:416 (9,1,2) - 
2017-07-30 01:11 Satellite: 最初全体的にmodしてもいい？
2017-07-30 01:11 eLy: たのんま！！！！！！！！！
2017-07-30 01:11 Satellite: 00:03:574 (5) - ここncかえてないけど
2017-07-30 01:11 Satellite: 00:04:837 (1) - ここかえてるいみ
2017-07-30 01:11 Satellite: 00:06:100 (6) - ここもかえてない
2017-07-30 01:12 eLy: おおんok add NC
2017-07-30 01:12 Satellite: 真ん中だけncはいってる
2017-07-30 01:13 Satellite: おとのかわりめにncいれたほうがうちやすそう　00:19:521 (4) -
2017-07-30 01:13 Satellite: and 00:19:995 (7) -
2017-07-30 01:13 eLy: 00:20:311 (1) - 
2017-07-30 01:14 eLy: ここは入れたままでいいよね
2017-07-30 01:14 Satellite: 332って色になるかんじ
2017-07-30 01:14 eLy: おっけーおっけー
2017-07-30 01:14 Satellite: そうそう
2017-07-30 01:14 eLy: 33244だよね
2017-07-30 01:14 Satellite: 00:22:048 (2,3,4) - ちょ
2017-07-30 01:14 Satellite: っと70％だとうるさそう
2017-07-30 01:14 Satellite: そうそう33244
2017-07-30 01:14 eLy: oh確かに
2017-07-30 01:15 eLy: 30にした！
2017-07-30 01:15 Satellite: 00:26:942 (2,3) - ここのかんかくとかいわれそう
2017-07-30 01:16 Satellite: 00:27:416 (3) - これ
2017-07-30 01:16 Satellite: ｘ442
2017-07-30 01:16 Satellite: ｙ263
2017-07-30 01:16 Satellite: あたりにもってきたら
2017-07-30 01:16 Satellite: 00:27:574 (4) - こっからおとのはいりだし
2017-07-30 01:16 Satellite: 一応見た目三角だし
2017-07-30 01:16 Satellite: すぺーしんぐせまめにみえるから
2017-07-30 01:16 Satellite: ぶなんになりそう
2017-07-30 01:17 eLy: ふむ
2017-07-30 01:17 eLy: オッケー○
2017-07-30 01:17 Satellite: 00:28:679 (4) - ちょっとおとにあってなくない？
2017-07-30 01:18 Satellite: 00:28:679 (4) - これけして
2017-07-30 01:18 Satellite: 00:28:363 (3) - これりばーすかけて
2017-07-30 01:18 Satellite: 00:28:837 - addnoteとか？
2017-07-30 01:19 eLy: 単発どの辺持って来ればいいかね
2017-07-30 01:19 eLy: ピアノ鳴ってるしまた余計に離すと音がどうたら言われそうなんだけど
2017-07-30 01:19 Satellite: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8711569
2017-07-30 01:19 Satellite: ながれだけ
2017-07-30 01:19 Satellite: きにするなら
2017-07-30 01:19 Satellite: ds1.8で
2017-07-30 01:20 Satellite: そのままおけば
2017-07-30 01:20 Satellite: いいきがしまつ
2017-07-30 01:21 Satellite: 00:29:469 (1,2) - かえれるなら
2017-07-30 01:21 Satellite: 00:29:469 (1) - これけして
2017-07-30 01:21 Satellite: 00:29:942 (2) - これもけして
2017-07-30 01:21 Satellite: 00:29:469 - circle
2017-07-30 01:21 Satellite: 00:29:784 - 1/2 sliderとかにして
2017-07-30 01:21 Satellite: 音へらしたほうが
2017-07-30 01:21 Satellite: それっぽい
2017-07-30 01:23 eLy: 確かに
2017-07-30 01:23 Satellite: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8711600
2017-07-30 01:23 Satellite: 台形っぽくして
2017-07-30 01:23 Satellite: 00:30:100 (3) - これ　00:30:890 (2) - ここの穴に
2017-07-30 01:24 Satellite: ぶっさせば
2017-07-30 01:24 Satellite: ””それっぽい””
2017-07-30 01:25 Satellite: 00:34:679 (2) - これとびすぎだし
2017-07-30 01:25 Satellite: 00:34:837 (3) - これの穴に
2017-07-30 01:25 Satellite: ぶっさせば
2017-07-30 01:25 Satellite: dsそれっぽいし
2017-07-30 01:25 Satellite: いきり配置
2017-07-30 01:25 Satellite: 00:35:311 (4) - これｘ198　ｙ368くらいにまき散らせておけば
2017-07-30 01:25 Satellite: しゅばってなりそうだけどどう
2017-07-30 01:26 eLy: あああ
2017-07-30 01:26 eLy: いい
2017-07-30 01:26 eLy: changedddddd
2017-07-30 01:28 Satellite: 00:49:205 (5,1) - おととりぎゃくかもしれん
2017-07-30 01:28 Satellite: ひっとさうんどけしておととりいれかえてみて
2017-07-30 01:28 Satellite: きいてみて
2017-07-30 01:28 Satellite: どう
2017-07-30 01:30 eLy: あ～
2017-07-30 01:30 eLy: そうかも
2017-07-30 01:30 eLy: そうだね
2017-07-30 01:30 eLy: 変えます！
2017-07-30 01:30 Satellite: 00:53:942 (5) - かさねるのにいみがないなら
2017-07-30 01:30 Satellite: ｘ134　ｙ292」」あたりに
2017-07-30 01:30 Satellite: とばしたほうが
2017-07-30 01:31 Satellite: みやすい
2017-07-30 01:31 Satellite: それでこれ　00:54:574 (2,3) - ｃｔｒｌ+ｇしたほうがい
2017-07-30 01:31 Satellite: もしかしたらながれいいかもしれないけど
2017-07-30 01:31 Satellite: どうかなあ
2017-07-30 01:32 Satellite: あすまん　00:54:890 (4) - ここにncいれてたから
2017-07-30 01:32 Satellite: ばんごうおかしい
2017-07-30 01:32 Satellite: ついでに00:54:890 (4) - ここにnciretaほうがいいかも
2017-07-30 01:32 Satellite: すまんこっち
2017-07-30 01:32 Satellite: 00:55:048 (5) -
2017-07-30 01:32 Satellite: みすった
2017-07-30 01:32 Satellite: 上の番号あってる
2017-07-30 01:33 eLy: これ完全にctrlGですわ
2017-07-30 01:33 Satellite: 01:01:995 (9) - こっからncはいるんじゃねえりーさんてきに
2017-07-30 01:34 Satellite: 01:10:521 (7) - ｃｔｒｌ+ｇしたい
2017-07-30 01:34 eLy: だね
2017-07-30 01:34 eLy: これそこにncいれて次のnc removeでいいよね
2017-07-30 01:35 eLy: cctrlGおｋ
2017-07-30 01:35 Satellite: そうそう
2017-07-30 01:36 Satellite: 01:24:732 (1) - あたまwhistleじゃね
2017-07-30 01:36 Satellite: 01:26:942 (4) - けつのwhistleけして
2017-07-30 01:37 Satellite: kurassyu shita
2017-07-30 01:37 eLy: ｗｗ
2017-07-30 01:37 Satellite: どこまでみえてた？
2017-07-30 01:37 eLy: 01:26:942 (4) - けつのwhistleけすとこまで
2017-07-30 01:37 Satellite: 01:26:942 (4) - けつのwhistleけして　01:27:258 (5) - こっちにwhistle?にwhistle?
2017-07-30 01:38 eLy: (1)のwhistleコレhitsound追加しないとだから後回し！直しはする！
2017-07-30 01:38 eLy: おｋ直した
2017-07-30 01:38 Satellite: ああおｋ
2017-07-30 01:38 Satellite: とりあえずきになったのは
2017-07-30 01:39 Satellite: ぱっとみてこれくらい！
2017-07-30 01:39 Satellite: 本題の指摘かしょ
2017-07-30 01:40 eLy: 01:03:258 (1,2,3) - 
2017-07-30 01:40 eLy: 01:04:048 (6,7,8,1) - 
2017-07-30 01:40 eLy: 01:05:153 (3,4,5,6,1) - 
2017-07-30 01:40 eLy: 01:09:416 (9,1,2) - 
2017-07-30 01:40 eLy: 全部強拍弱拍とDSの関係があやふやって指摘
2017-07-30 01:41 Satellite: 01:01:205 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - とりあえず
2017-07-30 01:41 Satellite: 後ろの配置はきにしないで
2017-07-30 01:41 Satellite: ここだけでみると
2017-07-30 01:41 Satellite: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8711747
2017-07-30 01:42 Satellite: こういうえいむのながれにしたら
2017-07-30 01:42 Satellite: 文句いわれないとおもいます
2017-07-30 01:42 Satellite: キック隠れてるのは５
2017-07-30 01:42 Satellite: ４は01:00:574 (8) - これのあたま
2017-07-30 01:43 eLy: 6番座標どれぐらい？
2017-07-30 01:43 eLy: あ
2017-07-30 01:43 eLy: 7番だ
2017-07-30 01:44 eLy: あ
2017-07-30 01:44 Satellite: 249　38
2017-07-30 01:44 Satellite: くらい？
2017-07-30 01:44 Satellite: とりあえず4～9は
2017-07-30 01:44 Satellite: あがっていくかんじでつくれば
2017-07-30 01:44 Satellite: だいじょうぶなきがする
2017-07-30 01:45 eLy: 多分これすると
2017-07-30 01:45 eLy: 01:02:153 (2) - 
2017-07-30 01:45 Satellite: それはもう考えてあって
2017-07-30 01:45 eLy: ここでまたDS広くなんの納得いかないとか言われる気がする
2017-07-30 01:45 eLy: oh...ｽﾊﾞﾗｼ
2017-07-30 01:45 Satellite: とりあえず指摘しづらいからupdateできるならしてほしい
2017-07-30 01:45 Satellite: 厳しいならoszでほしい
2017-07-30 01:45 Satellite: とりあえず後ろの流れは
2017-07-30 01:46 Satellite: 右側に持っていく感じ
2017-07-30 01:46 eLy: アップデートかけます○
2017-07-30 01:46 Satellite: ｋ
2017-07-30 01:46 eLy: 見た目多少汚くてもいいよねこの際
2017-07-30 01:46 Satellite: きになるようなら
2017-07-30 01:46 Satellite: 座標でいいます
2017-07-30 01:46 Satellite: ！
2017-07-30 01:47 eLy: まぁ大丈夫・・・でしょう！
2017-07-30 01:47 Satellite: ｋｋｋ
2017-07-30 01:47 eLy: 後々気になったら言う！ｗ
2017-07-30 01:47 Satellite: 最後に通しでみるし
2017-07-30 01:47 Satellite: だいじょうぶ
2017-07-30 01:47 eLy: お手数おかけしますT^T
2017-07-30 01:47 eLy: okかけた
2017-07-30 01:48 eLy: あ　あとこれ個人的になんだけど
2017-07-30 01:48 eLy: 00:42:574 (1,2,3,1) - 
2017-07-30 01:48 eLy: ここアリだと思う？
2017-07-30 01:48 Satellite: それきになってるのは
2017-07-30 01:48 Satellite: 00:42:416 (4) - ここから
2017-07-30 01:48 Satellite: 音が始まるので
2017-07-30 01:48 Satellite: 00:42:416 (4,1,2,3) - この４個で
2017-07-30 01:49 Satellite: １セット
2017-07-30 01:49 eLy: 00:43:048 (1) - 　このスライダーの入りとかも別に問題なさげ？
2017-07-30 01:49 Satellite: ただ大きく配置買えないとかえれないけど
2017-07-30 01:49 Satellite: かえるなら提案するよ
2017-07-30 01:49 eLy: ここは永遠に良いのが思いつかないから
2017-07-30 01:49 eLy: 頼みますT^T
2017-07-30 01:49 Satellite: やりやすさでいうと
2017-07-30 01:50 Satellite: つながるけど
2017-07-30 01:50 Satellite: 根本からかえるなら
2017-07-30 01:50 Satellite: ncからいうと
2017-07-30 01:50 Satellite: 00:42:416 (4) - nc
2017-07-30 01:50 eLy: AIM減速しまくってやりにくい気がするんだよね
2017-07-30 01:50 Satellite: 00:42:574 (1) - remo nc
2017-07-30 01:50 eLy: ok
2017-07-30 01:50 Satellite: 00:42:416 (4,1) - こういう配置やりたい？
2017-07-30 01:50 eLy: そこがあんま納得行ってない箇所だから
2017-07-30 01:51 eLy: 全然変えても大丈夫
2017-07-30 01:52 Satellite: 00:43:048 (1) - 直線スライダーに
2017-07-30 01:52 Satellite: こだわりある？
2017-07-30 01:52 eLy: ん～ない
2017-07-30 01:52 eLy: むしろ
2017-07-30 01:52 eLy: 今の1のスライダーと
2017-07-30 01:52 eLy: 00:43:363 (2) - 
2017-07-30 01:53 eLy: ここのスライダーの形の配置が違和感あるから
2017-07-30 01:53 eLy: 変えるならもう全体的にオッケーって感じ
2017-07-30 01:53 Satellite: 座標でいうわ
2017-07-30 01:53 eLy: ｵﾈｶﾞｲｼﾏｽ
2017-07-30 01:53 Satellite: 00:42:258 (3) - 362　147
2017-07-30 01:54 Satellite: 00:42:416 (1) - 201　38
2017-07-30 01:54 Satellite: 00:42:574 (2) - 127　106
2017-07-30 01:54 Satellite: 00:42:732 (3) - 00:42:100 (2) - こことおなじ
2017-07-30 01:54 Satellite: で
2017-07-30 01:54 Satellite: 00:42:890 (4) - 00:43:363 (2) - これのけつ
2017-07-30 01:54 Satellite: 00:43:048 (1) - これをすこしうねっとしたら
2017-07-30 01:55 Satellite: こんなかんじ
2017-07-30 01:55 Satellite: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8711838
2017-07-30 01:55 eLy: あ
2017-07-30 01:55 eLy: すげえ
2017-07-30 01:56 Satellite: 00:42:416 (1,2,3,4) - ここはながれてるようなおとに
2017-07-30 01:56 Satellite: きこえたかんじ
2017-07-30 01:56 Satellite: 00:42:100 (2,3) - ここはとんでるおとで
2017-07-30 01:56 Satellite: 微妙だったら他提案しまつ
2017-07-30 01:56 Satellite: ながれてきに
2017-07-30 01:56 Satellite: 00:41:784 (1,2) - ここと00:42:258 (3,1) - ここで
2017-07-30 01:56 Satellite: 対角ジャンプになるから
2017-07-30 01:56 Satellite: 自然にエイムできるはず
2017-07-30 01:56 eLy: なるほどね
2017-07-30 01:57 Satellite: さっきおととりなおしたところなおすけど
2017-07-30 01:57 Satellite: さきにupdateする？
2017-07-30 01:57 Satellite: 00:48:574 (2,3,4,1,2,3) - このへんつぎいきます
2017-07-30 01:57 eLy: え～っと
2017-07-30 01:59 eLy: ok updated
2017-07-30 01:59 Satellite: ｋ
2017-07-30 02:00 Satellite: 00:48:574 (2) -
2017-07-30 02:00 Satellite: 00:49:205 (1) - これのあたま
2017-07-30 02:00 Satellite: 00:48:732 (3) -
2017-07-30 02:01 Satellite: うねっとさせて00:47:469 (4) - ここにすたっく00:49:205 (1) - これをぶらんけっとして
2017-07-30 02:01 Satellite: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8711876
2017-07-30 02:01 Satellite: こんなかんじ
2017-07-30 02:01 Satellite: 00:49:048 (4) - ｘ257　ｙ69
2017-07-30 02:01 Satellite: 00:49:521 (2) - これは00:49:995 (4) - ここにすたっくしてもいいかも
2017-07-30 02:01 Satellite: びみょうだったらほかにしまつ
2017-07-30 02:02 eLy: 00:48:732 (3) - 
2017-07-30 02:03 eLy: コイツどううねらせばいい？
2017-07-30 02:03 eLy: あ
2017-07-30 02:03 Satellite: がぞう！
2017-07-30 02:03 eLy: 1の終点にブランケットか
2017-07-30 02:03 Satellite: がぞうみて！
2017-07-30 02:03 eLy: あ
2017-07-30 02:03 eLy: あぜｗｗｗ
2017-07-30 02:04 Satellite: ^o^
2017-07-30 02:04 Satellite: できたらupdate!他がいいならいってください！！！
2017-07-30 02:05 eLy: 了解！
2017-07-30 02:05 Satellite: 00:49:679 (3) - これはctrl+gが
2017-07-30 02:05 Satellite: いいかもしれないけど
2017-07-30 02:05 Satellite: このみで
2017-07-30 02:05 Satellite: ok
2017-07-30 02:06 eLy: あ～イイネ
2017-07-30 02:07 Satellite: いえーい
2017-07-30 02:08 eLy: ここずっと悩んでて困ってたから
2017-07-30 02:08 eLy: スッキリ
2017-07-30 02:08 Satellite: 文句言われない譜面にして
2017-07-30 02:08 Satellite: 今日はねましょう
2017-07-30 02:08 eLy: アプデした～！
2017-07-30 02:09 Satellite: 01:01:995 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
2017-07-30 02:09 Satellite: ここですねえ・・・
2017-07-30 02:09 Satellite: かんがえます
2017-07-30 02:09 eLy: 音の強弱云々言われるのが納得いかないなぁホントｗ
2017-07-30 02:10 Satellite: がっつりいじってもだいじょうぶ？
2017-07-30 02:10 Satellite: 基本的に素材を大切にしたいけど
2017-07-30 02:10 Satellite: ここはちょっと強引にいかないときつそう
2017-07-30 02:10 eLy: ここの三角形はlasseに無理やり変えられたところだから
2017-07-30 02:10 eLy: 一向に構わないよ
2017-07-30 02:11 Satellite: 01:03:258 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
2017-07-30 02:11 Satellite: ここはつっこみされてない？
2017-07-30 02:12 Satellite: 01:04:521 - ここ以降はそのままでもよさそうだけど
2017-07-30 02:12 Satellite: そのまえは少しいじったほうがいいかも
2017-07-30 02:12 eLy: 01:03:258 (1,2,3) - 
2017-07-30 02:12 eLy: 01:04:048 (6,7,8,1) - 
2017-07-30 02:12 eLy: ここで音がどうたらこうたら言われてる
2017-07-30 02:12 eLy: 同じだね　強拍弱拍のDSが不一致
2017-07-30 02:12 eLy: 逆になってるってさ
2017-07-30 02:13 eLy: ここあんま変えたくないんだけどなぁ
2017-07-30 02:14 Satellite: 先に手前かんがえます！
2017-07-30 02:14 eLy: ｵﾈｶﾞｲｼﾏｽﾟ(ﾟ´Д｀ﾟ)ﾟ
2017-07-30 02:14 Satellite: いきます
2017-07-30 02:14 eLy: 長文コイヤァ！
2017-07-30 02:14 Satellite: がっつりいくので
2017-07-30 02:15 Satellite: 01:02:153 (2) - x275 y329
2017-07-30 02:15 Satellite: 音鳥変更　01:02:311 - ここから1/2slider
2017-07-30 02:15 Satellite: 01:02:548 - circle
2017-07-30 02:15 Satellite: 01:02:627 - 1/2slider
2017-07-30 02:15 Satellite: 01:02:942 - circle
2017-07-30 02:15 Satellite: 01:03:100 - 01:03:179 - circle*2 stack 01:03:258 (1) - ここ
2017-07-30 02:16 Satellite: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8711965
2017-07-30 02:16 Satellite: あくまで流れだけだから動きは好きなようにかえてくれてokかえてくれてok
2017-07-30 02:16 Satellite: 画像みて
2017-07-30 02:16 Satellite: 参考にしてください
2017-07-30 02:16 Satellite: わからないところあればいってね！
2017-07-30 02:17 Satellite: そのあとのところは
2017-07-30 02:17 Satellite: よくみたらかえなくてよさそう
2017-07-30 02:18 eLy: ふむ・・・
2017-07-30 02:19 Satellite: ちょっと強引にかえたから
2017-07-30 02:19 Satellite: ある程度いじってもらってもう一度見るって方式がよさそうここは
2017-07-30 02:20 Satellite: あと最初のncつたわってなかったｗ
2017-07-30 02:20 Satellite: 00:03:574 (1) - remove nc
2017-07-30 02:20 Satellite: 00:04:837 (1) - ＾
2017-07-30 02:20 Satellite: 00:05:153 (2) - add nc
2017-07-30 02:21 Satellite: 00:06:100 (1) - remo nc
2017-07-30 02:22 Satellite: 00:34:679 (2) - これは　00:34:837 (3) - これのえんどにすたっくのほうがいいかも
2017-07-30 02:22 eLy: 01:02:548 (4,5) - ここ気持ちもうちょっと離しても大丈夫かな
2017-07-30 02:22 Satellite: あー
2017-07-30 02:22 Satellite: いまのままでいいや
2017-07-30 02:22 Satellite: お好きにいじってもらってok!
2017-07-30 02:23 eLy: オッケここまでのは全部直した○
2017-07-30 02:24 Satellite: じゃあもっかいわるいけど
2017-07-30 02:24 Satellite: update
2017-07-30 02:24 Satellite: おねがいしま～～～～～
2017-07-30 02:24 eLy: す！・。・！
2017-07-30 02:25 Satellite: いいたいことだいたいいえた
2017-07-30 02:25 eLy: アプデカンリョ～( 'ω')b
2017-07-30 02:25 eLy: でもまだmod一個目の指摘なんだよなぁこれ
2017-07-30 02:26 Satellite: おｋ
2017-07-30 02:26 Satellite: 次いこう
2017-07-30 02:27 eLy: 00:10:679 (3,4,1,2,1) - ここの配置はスペーシングにおいて対象を成していません
2017-07-30 02:27 eLy: それ以前のほかの部分も同じように見える、それにも関わらずピアノの音が前より大きくなっています
2017-07-30 02:27 Satellite: 00:11:153 (4) - これ
2017-07-30 02:27 Satellite: ctrl+gして
2017-07-30 02:28 Satellite: 00:10:679 (3) - これうねってさせて
2017-07-30 02:28 Satellite: 00:11:153 (4) - これも00:11:469 (1) - これのけつみながらうねらせて
2017-07-30 02:28 Satellite: dsととのえたら
2017-07-30 02:28 Satellite: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8712068
2017-07-30 02:28 Satellite: こんなかんじで
2017-07-30 02:29 Satellite: フローできるけどどう
2017-07-30 02:29 Satellite: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8712070
2017-07-30 02:29 Satellite: 後ろ
2017-07-30 02:30 eLy: おおおお
2017-07-30 02:30 eLy: いい
2017-07-30 02:31 Satellite: 次いきましょう
2017-07-30 02:31 eLy: 00:19:521-ここのクライマックスの部分は1／2ジャンプのスパムが00:19:679 (5)と共に続いていますが 
2017-07-30 02:31 eLy: あれおかしなことになってーら
2017-07-30 02:31 eLy: ここは00:19:521を 1/2スライダーに変更することで問題は解決できます
2017-07-30 02:32 eLy: だってさ
2017-07-30 02:32 eLy: 俺これ反対なんだけど
2017-07-30 02:32 Satellite: 00:19:521 (1) - これを1/2にするなら
2017-07-30 02:32 Satellite: 00:19:048 (1) - これもしないといけないですね
2017-07-30 02:32 Satellite: パターンとるなら
2017-07-30 02:33 eLy: なおそれは書いていない模様
2017-07-30 02:33 Satellite: 00:19:048 (1,2,3) - ３　00:19:521 (1,2,3) - ３で音あるから
2017-07-30 02:33 Satellite: この場合はこれでokこれでok
2017-07-30 02:33 Satellite: ただ
2017-07-30 02:33 Satellite: 後ろのspacingがひろいから
2017-07-30 02:33 Satellite: 少しせまくしたほうがいい
2017-07-30 02:34 eLy: 00:19:205 (2,3,1,2,3,1,2) - 
2017-07-30 02:34 eLy: この辺？
2017-07-30 02:34 Satellite: ここ
2017-07-30 02:34 Satellite: 配置こだわりある？
2017-07-30 02:34 eLy: ないｯｽ
2017-07-30 02:35 Satellite: 00:19:205 (2) - ｘ302　ｙ171
2017-07-30 02:35 Satellite: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8712110
2017-07-30 02:35 Satellite: 左右対称で3+3
2017-07-30 02:36 Satellite: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8712115　00:19:995 (1,2) - 縦エイムとかどうそのあと
2017-07-30 02:37 eLy: 採用！！！！！
2017-07-30 02:38 Satellite: そのあとの４+４
2017-07-30 02:39 eLy: うん
2017-07-30 02:39 Satellite: 画像つくってるからまってｗ
2017-07-30 02:39 eLy: あいさｗ
2017-07-30 02:42 Satellite: どうしようかなあ
2017-07-30 02:42 Satellite: 配置的に対象でかんがえてる
2017-07-30 02:42 Satellite: 対称
2017-07-30 02:43 eLy: 対称のが実際綺麗だしね
2017-07-30 02:43 Satellite: きれいというか
2017-07-30 02:44 Satellite: 文句つけれない
2017-07-30 02:44 eLy: 確かにｗ
2017-07-30 02:45 Satellite: とりあえず
2017-07-30 02:45 Satellite: 00:19:995 (1,2) - ここ縦でうごいたあと
2017-07-30 02:45 Satellite: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8712182
2017-07-30 02:45 Satellite: 階段*2
2017-07-30 02:46 Satellite: 00:21:574 (1,2,3,4) - この辺は好きに調整してもらえれば　””無難””
2017-07-30 02:47 Satellite: 個性は死亡
2017-07-30 02:47 eLy: 　なるほどねぇ
2017-07-30 02:48 Satellite: こだわりないなら
2017-07-30 02:48 Satellite: 対称でかんがえてみるのもおｋ

THANK YOU CHECK Satellite :) !!!!!!!!
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

Naxess wrote:

Greetings,

The way things are emphasized in the top difficulty doesn't really follow the song well; both in terms of spacing as well as rhythm. In my opinion this should definitely be improved upon before potentially moving this into the ranked section.

  • [Re:TraumenD]
    00:06:416 (1,2) - 00:07:048 (3,4) - In this case (2) is weaker than (4), yet the map implies the opposite. Same sort of thing can be seen at 00:07:679 (1,2,3) - with (2) and (3), 00:16:205 (4,5,1) - etc. Especially noticeable in kiai with parts like 00:58:995 (6,7,8,1) - 01:01:363 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - 01:03:258 (1,2,3) - 01:04:048 (6,7,8,1) - 01:05:153 (3,4,5,6,1) - 01:09:416 (9,1,2) - and so on, you get the idea. At first I was thinking perhaps lower spacing was used for emphasis, but it's inconsistently used almost as if the song wasn't followed at all, which makes any kind of emphasis by spacing ambiguous and disconnected from the song.

    :arrow: first 00:06:416 (1,2)- 00:07:048 (3,4)- this part
    in there first place, when playing 1/1 sliders there are always have spare time to aiming
    because you hold way longer time than 1/2 sliders
    its like no discomfort to playing to having big distance 1/1 sliders while 1/2 sliders are a lot strict to play compared 1/1 sliders.
    so comparing 1/1 slider + circles and 1/2 slider + 1/1 slider by as its emphasis is wrong here

    so, no change

    also, didn't changed solo part except very few things
    as you saying 'no concept' sounds very wrong for me, extra itself should be allowed to make kinda freely since these aren't for every player
    Extra difficulty doesn't meant to be using repetitive pattern all around or same spacing strictly.
    you can see them in ranked maps as well, i don't make example here but there are like tons of maps questioning why this is ranked if this shouldn't be.
    ends up its what you feel, everyone have their own subjective opinion and no one shouldn't force them to others

    so i don't think i need to big change here, no changed for most things.

    00:10:679 (3,4,1,2,1) - This buildup is lacking contrast in spacing and as such it seems like any other part prior to it, despite piano impacts being way more powerful than before.

    :arrow: changed flow

    00:19:521 - The climax here is basically ignored as the 1/2 jump spam continues with 00:19:679 (5) - . Could be solved by making 00:19:521 - a 1/2 slider.

    :arrow: if i change that to slider, then i should change 00:19:048 (1) - here as well to 1/2 sliders. and i think these changes make here very weird
    there no point change into slider, no change

    00:22:205 - The tickrate becomes pretty intrusive here and in the calm sections of the song. Since we can't silence them I'd suggest using tickrate 1 instead, for all difficulties in the set.

    :arrow: changed

    00:22:837 - Rhythm seems unrepresentative of the song here. Preferably 00:23:469 - and 00:25:995 - would be presented differently from 00:24:732 - as it is in the song. Additionally, 00:27:890 (1,2,3,4,5) - feels odd considering that both vocals as well as piano are skipped at 00:28:521 - and 00:28:837 - respectively. Would probably be more reflective like this.

    :arrow: I don't think so, or simply i can't understand what you want to do here. 00:27:890 (1) - 00:28:363 (3) - 00:28:837 (4) - i took piano sounds here 、00:28:995 (5) - and i took vocal here
    doesn't feel like worth modding for me. no change.

    00:41:627 - Syncopation occurs here, which means that the downbeat would be skipped, and it is, yet the map still goes on as if nothing happened or as if the baseline is stronger, which it doesn't even follow.

    :arrow: changed

    00:42:100 (2,3,4,1,2,3) - These are all gradually decreasing in pitch, yet the map seems to imply that 00:42:416 (4,1) - is worth emphasizing with an anti-jump despite being similar to the others. I mean it's an interesting idea but I doubt it fits here when considering what the song has to offer. The latter combo would also probably work better with lower spacing to reflect that the pitch is going down, rather than higher.

    :arrow: changed from Satellite's mod, he said no problem with it so i will keep this one.

    00:43:995 (5,6,1) - Both a strong vocal on 00:43:995 - as well as piano on 00:44:153 - are under emphasized due to 00:44:311 (1) - being there and also equally spaced in comparison, yet holding no similarly important sound. Would suggest some differentiation, for example by making 00:44:153 - a 1/2 slider in accordance with the drums and piano.

    :arrow: piano should be more emphasized here imo. its monotone and more noticable than vocal. no change.

    00:44:469 (1,2,3) - This triple is emphasizing 00:44:627 - for whatever reason while the beginning and end are of basically same strength. Similarly here, 00:44:784 (4) - is also taking away from the potential contrast that could be made here to make things stand out properly. By making 00:44:627 - a 1/2 slider and removing 00:44:548 (2) - , you'd establish contrast as well as making 00:44:153 - 00:44:469 - 00:44:627 - coherent rhythmically, similarly to how 00:46:679 (1,2) - was done.

    :arrow: i don't think lesser sounds make things stand out properly
    this is the highest difficulty. it is very normal that adding some more sound or circles for rhythmical intensity.

    00:44:153 - 00:44:469 - 00:44:627 for this part, why i need to make coherent here?
    as i answered one earlier mod, I emphasized 00:44:153 (6) - here which is clearly can hear drun and piano sounds
    and then next strongest sounds, should emphasizing is 00:44:469 (2,3,4) - here where you can hear drum sounds clearly
    so 6-1-234 are emphasizing with diagonal jumps are very obvious imo
    and in the first place, i think these pattern are already coherent enough.

    no change

    00:50:232 (5) - There are four sounds in the vicinity so ideally there would be 4 points of impact as well, rather than 3, since 00:50:153 (4,5,6) - really only emphasizes 00:50:311 - as a result. Same point can be applied to 00:56:153 (4,5,6) - and probably other similar triples. Things like 00:53:469 (2,3,4) - and 00:54:258 (7,8,1) - are fine though since they're clearly supported by the song and the sounds are all part of the same layer.

    :arrow: its already enough.
    stopping aim with triple and make easier flow to later part, and enough for emphasizing as well.
    for example 00:49:995 (4,5,6,7,8) - this part emphasized with having bigger DS than rest. triple aren't supported by song sounds doesn't really make sense to me

    00:56:784 (9,1) - Spacing these like this is probably not a good idea. In terms of vocals and drums, 00:56:784 - is the climax, so stopping motion there would reflect that. You can also emphasize 00:56:942 - even more by making it a triple, since there's a sound at 00:56:863 - . So something like this, for instance.

    :arrow: excuse me?, what are you talking about now?
    you told me one earlier mod you said. 'those 2 parts are supported by song'

    is here REALLY supported by song? is there any big sounds worth to be emphasized?
    this one is completely not understandable for me.

    no change
Overall it seems like all the jump patterns are lacking a defined structure and concept. This is especially noticeable in the kiai. Angles and distance are seemingly random and the same applies visually. There isn't really anything that allows sounds to stand out properly either, with exception of rhythm, as most points of impact are just emphasized with the same or contradicting spacing regardless of strength or layer. This is honestly far from what I would expect from a ranked map, and for these reasons I will decide to veto this mapset until a compromise has been reached.

TL;DR: Emphasis and correlation are lacking due to low contrast as well as contradictions in spacing.

:arrow: theres lack of structure and concept? of course you can think it is, but also it's just your opinion.
but as i said earlier, its highest difficulty、Extra should have way less restriction and can make maps relatively freely.
in fact there are a lot of maps like them

as for me, i try to make maps i can having fun with. that's kind of concept here.

you told me its far from what I would expect from a ranked map but there are 3BNs have bubbled this map.
its undeniable proof this have decent quality at least to be ready for ranked, no matter you agree or not. don't push your opinion only because you are a BN.

Regardless, I'll need to pop this as there are conflicting timing settings in vellya's Extra at 00:02:627 - , which is unrankable as to avoid technical issues. This can be fixed by giving both timing lines the same volume setting and custom sample set.

:arrow: you are right here, fixed, thanks.
all those things have checked by satellite

send a PM to me if you have anything to say. instead of shitposting all around here.
defiance
503 posts
Joined July 2015
defiance
"you told me its far from what I would expect from a ranked map but there are 3BNs have bubbled this map."

well, 3 bn's have popped it with 2 vetoing right after it was bubbled, so that should say something
Koiyuki
2,531 posts
Joined March 2013
Koiyuki

osuskrub wrote:

"you told me its far from what I would expect from a ranked map but there are 3BNs have bubbled this map."

well, 3 bn's have popped it with 2 vetoing right after it was bubbled, so that should say something
pop is just because of some unfound unrankable issues, like what naxess mentioned at the last paragraph
00:02:627 - the conflicting timing settings in vellya's extra is unrankable, really, i have to say sorry because i seldom meets this kind of issues and i also asked natsu about it.

the former pop are just because those bn thought "lack of quality", "found to be bad", they just questioning why ely map like this but seldom understand what the mapper is thinking.
other reason is the bn policy, which encourages bn to pop the maps they thought "lack of quality".

every modder has their different way to judge its quality. imo although this map is not prefect, it is fine for approval.

since it got fixed
rebubbled.
Last edited by Koiyuki , edited 1 time in total.
Mir
osu! Alumni
2,151 posts
Joined July 2016
Mir

Naxess wrote:

Overall it seems like all the jump patterns are lacking a defined structure and concept. This is especially noticeable in the kiai. Angles and distance are seemingly random and the same applies visually. There isn't really anything that allows sounds to stand out properly either, with exception of rhythm, as most points of impact are just emphasized with the same or contradicting spacing regardless of strength or layer. This is honestly far from what I would expect from a ranked map, and for these reasons I will decide to veto this mapset until a compromise has been reached.
Did Naxess give you the OK to rebubble this?
Koiyuki
2,531 posts
Joined March 2013
Koiyuki
ely asked, also satellite posted, so i thought they came to an agreement
or not? :(

from my side i think ely's reply is also reasonable.
if not, @naxess, you feel free to reset the status of this map to be "popped" and i wont touch this set again until it got solved
Yuii-
2,503 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-
Irrelevant user coming through, excuse me!

You cannot rebubble without the popper's agreement. Another BN can, but only if they are able to explain their reasoning behind their disagreement with the pop.

Abort.
Last edited by Yuii- , edited 1 time in total.
Koiyuki
2,531 posts
Joined March 2013
Koiyuki
ok, i reset the status to popped now.

sry for making troubles, i havent meet these kinds of issues so long.

NOTHING HAPPENED.
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

Koiyuki wrote:

ok, i reset the status to popped now.

sry for making troubles, i havent meet these kinds of issues so long.

NOTHING HAPPENED.
to Mir & Yuii & Koiyuki

https://puu.sh/wYTA9/6c3b0f24c3.png

I'll look for another BN
sorry, Koiyuki chan
vipto
716 posts
Joined May 2011
vipto
nvm
Satellite
3,683 posts
Joined June 2012
Satellite
rip
UndeadCapulet
1,100 posts
Joined April 2013
UndeadCapulet
just so you know
sahuang can rebub if they want, since the person that veto'd them isnt a bn anymore
Okoratu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,913 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoratu
there's no reason at all for a veto to be nulled upon leaving BN
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan
In any case it is not necessary because it is made a bubble pop (´-д-)-3
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata

Okorin wrote:

there's no reason at all for a veto to be nulled upon leaving BN
Xexxar isn't a BN anymore, so if ely decided to apply Xexxar's pop concerns and try to achieve a compromise, there would be no way to receive a formal approval. Xexxar is no longer tied to BN obligations, so even if ely attempts to reason and fix Xexxar's veto'ing concerns, Xexxar is not obligated to come back and recheck. And even if he did recheck, he no longer has the power to rebubble anyways.

sahuang should be allowed to rebubble.

Also, the mapper and associated BN's are allowed to "trust" or "not trust" the icons of previous BN's who have been removed, so they should also be allowed to "trust" or "not trust" bubble-pops that were issued by BN's who were removed.


Gave you two quick reasons. There are more if you want to take a minute to think of the issues that keeping ex-BN's veto's in place creates.
sahuang
2,293 posts
Joined December 2014
sahuang

Naxess wrote:

[list][Re:TraumenD]
00:06:416 (1,2) - 00:07:048 (3,4) - In this case (2) is weaker than (4), yet the map implies the opposite. Same sort of thing can be seen at 00:07:679 (1,2,3) - with (2) and (3), 00:16:205 (4,5,1) - etc. Especially noticeable in kiai with parts like 00:58:995 (6,7,8,1) - 01:01:363 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - 01:03:258 (1,2,3) - 01:04:048 (6,7,8,1) - 01:05:153 (3,4,5,6,1) - 01:09:416 (9,1,2) - and so on, you get the idea. At first I was thinking perhaps lower spacing was used for emphasis, but it's inconsistently used almost as if the song wasn't followed at all, which makes any kind of emphasis by spacing ambiguous and disconnected from the song.
I think you put too much emphasis on "spacing consistency" and "because this beat is louder the spacing must be bigger than that one" etc. This is just one mapping style and i feel that it's not a rule for mapping. In the first part music isn't really intense so spacings which fall in a range are all acceptable imo.

00:10:679 (3,4,1,2,1) - dunno what you meant by buildup when there are only some sliders in the calm part with relatively small spacing. 00:10:679 (3,4,1,2) - spacing is also fine here, nothing really not representing music.

00:19:521 - The climax here is basically ignored as the 1/2 jump spam continues with 00:19:679 (5) - . Could be solved by making 00:19:521 - a 1/2 slider. This might be a good idea

00:22:205 - @ely can you make slider body 00:22:205 (4) - 10% or sth? add green line 00:22:284 -

00:22:837 - 00:22:837 (1,2,3,4) - this is basically following vocal. Because vocal can be interpreted differently for different people, you might think 00:23:784 (4) - should be skipped but what you've done here ignored 00:24:100 - ...which is start of a vocal.

00:41:627 - idk why 00:41:469 (4,1) - is not good just 2 1/2 slider and following rhythm(vocal and some background music) its very simplified.

00:42:100 (2,3,4,1,2,3) -It really depends on interpretation imo? From my view 00:41:784 (1,2,3,1) - emphasised 00:42:100 (2) - and the distance is indeed decreasing 00:42:100 (2,3,1) -

00:43:995 (5,6,1) - @ely can you move 00:44:153 (6) - near 00:43:995 (5,1) - a bit? say 256|224 or something

00:44:469 (1,2,3) - Ok I agree that 00:44:469 (2,3,4,5) - can be changed to circle+1/2 slider and deleting the 1/4 beat makes more sense

00:50:232 (5) - I don't see why triplets are not fine, since some slight overmapping for triples / simplification from 4 to 3 are tolerable. You can spot this in many other maps, and it's not that disastrous. He didn't use triple everywhere either.

00:56:784 (9,1) - There is some piano sound starting from 00:56:942 - so altough there's no drum beat like 00:56:784 (9) - it's still fine to start the slider from the long white line. I don't think this is an issue tbh.
I Must Decrease
908 posts
Joined June 2013
I Must Decrease
Just re-emphasizing that my complaints were never dealt with properly and my veto is still counted for as Okorin has stated.
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

sahuang wrote:

Naxess wrote:

[list][Re:TraumenD]
00:06:416 (1,2) - 00:07:048 (3,4) - In this case (2) is weaker than (4), yet the map implies the opposite. Same sort of thing can be seen at 00:07:679 (1,2,3) - with (2) and (3), 00:16:205 (4,5,1) - etc. Especially noticeable in kiai with parts like 00:58:995 (6,7,8,1) - 01:01:363 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - 01:03:258 (1,2,3) - 01:04:048 (6,7,8,1) - 01:05:153 (3,4,5,6,1) - 01:09:416 (9,1,2) - and so on, you get the idea. At first I was thinking perhaps lower spacing was used for emphasis, but it's inconsistently used almost as if the song wasn't followed at all, which makes any kind of emphasis by spacing ambiguous and disconnected from the song.
I think you put too much emphasis on "spacing consistency" and "because this beat is louder the spacing must be bigger than that one" etc. This is just one mapping style and i feel that it's not a rule for mapping. In the first part music isn't really intense so spacings which fall in a range are all acceptable imo.

00:10:679 (3,4,1,2,1) - dunno what you meant by buildup when there are only some sliders in the calm part with relatively small spacing. 00:10:679 (3,4,1,2) - spacing is also fine here, nothing really not representing music.

00:19:521 - The climax here is basically ignored as the 1/2 jump spam continues with 00:19:679 (5) - . Could be solved by making 00:19:521 - a 1/2 slider. This might be a good idea

:arrow: fix

00:22:205 - @ely can you make slider body 00:22:205 (4) - 10% or sth? add green line 00:22:284 -

:arrow: fix

00:22:837 - 00:22:837 (1,2,3,4) - this is basically following vocal. Because vocal can be interpreted differently for different people, you might think 00:23:784 (4) - should be skipped but what you've done here ignored 00:24:100 - ...which is start of a vocal.

00:41:627 - idk why 00:41:469 (4,1) - is not good just 2 1/2 slider and following rhythm(vocal and some background music) its very simplified.

00:42:100 (2,3,4,1,2,3) -It really depends on interpretation imo? From my view 00:41:784 (1,2,3,1) - emphasised 00:42:100 (2) - and the distance is indeed decreasing 00:42:100 (2,3,1) -

00:43:995 (5,6,1) - @ely can you move 00:44:153 (6) - near 00:43:995 (5,1) - a bit? say 256|224 or something

:arrow: fix

00:44:469 (1,2,3) - Ok I agree that 00:44:469 (2,3,4,5) - can be changed to circle+1/2 slider and deleting the 1/4 beat makes more sense

:arrow: fix

00:50:232 (5) - I don't see why triplets are not fine, since some slight overmapping for triples / simplification from 4 to 3 are tolerable. You can spot this in many other maps, and it's not that disastrous. He didn't use triple everywhere either.

00:56:784 (9,1) - There is some piano sound starting from 00:56:942 - so altough there's no drum beat like 00:56:784 (9) - it's still fine to start the slider from the long white line. I don't think this is an issue tbh.
thzz
579 posts
Joined May 2012
thzz
あの、keysoundボロボロになってるので、泡やQFの前に私にチェックさせてください。
それから私がkeysoundを担当した旨をどこかに記載してくれませんか？

for BN : let me check too ugly keysounding before bubbling or QF plz

edit
now being in discussion with eLy and vellya
Last edited by thzz , edited 2 times in total.
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

thzz wrote:

あの、keysoundボロボロになってるので、泡やQFの前に私にチェックさせてください。
それから私がkeysoundを担当した旨をどこかに記載してくれませんか？

for BN : let me check too ugly keysounding before bubbling or QF plz
vellyaさんのhitsoundをコピーしているので別にボロボロではないかと・・・。
元となる部分はthzzさんのを使用していると彼も言っていたのでアレンジが入っているだけだと思いますが。
Gaia
2,808 posts
Joined May 2013
Gaia
aaa im kinda late but tell me if you want a mod, I'd be happy to help ⌒°( ･ω･)°⌒
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

Gaia wrote:

aaa im kinda late but tell me if you want a mod, I'd be happy to help ⌒°( ･ω･)°⌒
It's all right now (∩´∀｀)∩

thank you Gaia chan ;)
thzz
579 posts
Joined May 2012
thzz
after the discussion, it was appeared that there'd been some troubles in communication among i, vellya and eLy.
it was just 'trouble'.
"ugly" was too bad word, let me say "i'm sorry."

there's nothing ugly!!!!!
but we're trying to make topdiff better.

i'm sorry for disturbing many people.
Penguiness
115 posts
Joined March 2016
Penguiness
I sorta wanna make a GD for this. Is that ok?
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

Penguiness wrote:

I sorta wanna make a GD for this. Is that ok?

That's not necessary.
Garden
Nomination Assessment Team
1,343 posts
Joined June 2013
Garden
hello, check as requested

General
  1. didnt read the whole thread, is there any explanation concerning slider tick rate 2 before? in some diffs they work well but some are not
  2. Unused hitsounds reported by modding assistant: soft-slidertick3.wav, show me if it's used somewhere
Easy
  1. 00:11:469 (2,1,2,3) - move them to make 00:10:205 (1,1) - perfectly stacked? i think it was supposed to be like this
  2. 01:19:679 - and after: pretty sure it should be S:C2 like intro
Lecana
  1. 00:55:679 (1) - 00:55:758 (1) - missing finish?
litoluna
  1. 01:28:995 (3,4) - rather overmapped rhythm, literally follows nothing imo
Cookiezi
  1. 00:47:153 (3) - maybe nc here cuz 00:47:153 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - pattern looks independent of 00:46:837 (1,2) -
  2. 00:57:574 - finish?
  3. 01:13:679 (2) - what about making it the flipping of 01:13:363 (1) - , like 01:14:627 (1,2) -
  4. 01:23:469 (1,3) - doesn't look well if you enable stack view->https://puu.sh/xnViP/da335d1b7e.png, move 01:24:258 (3,4,1) - a bit manually for better visual
  5. 01:28:995 (2,3) - i'm not favoring the overmap here tho it's for playability
talked with mapper about top diff and we fixed some spacings and volumes, i can help rebubble after above points are addressed
litoluna
1,073 posts
Joined April 2011
litoluna
@Garden
01:28:995 (3,4) - Changed Slider.
thanks ;)

http://puu.sh/xo0T3.zip
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

Garden wrote:

hello, check as requested

General
  1. didnt read the whole thread, is there any explanation concerning slider tick rate 2 before? in some diffs they work well but some are not
    :arrow: top diff tick rate 1 → tick rate 2 *all diff
  2. Unused hitsounds reported by modding assistant: soft-slidertick3.wav, show me if it's used somewhere
    :arrow: deleted
Easy
  1. 00:11:469 (2,1,2,3) - move them to make 00:10:205 (1,1) - perfectly stacked? i think it was supposed to be like this
  2. 01:19:679 - and after: pretty sure it should be S:C2 like intro
:arrow: all fixed

Lecana
  1. 00:55:679 (1) - 00:55:758 (1) - missing finish?
:arrow: fix

Cookiezi
  1. 00:47:153 (3) - maybe nc here cuz 00:47:153 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - pattern looks independent of 00:46:837 (1,2) -
  2. 00:57:574 - finish?
  3. 01:13:679 (2) - what about making it the flipping of 01:13:363 (1) - , like 01:14:627 (1,2) -
  4. 01:23:469 (1,3) - doesn't look well if you enable stack view->https://puu.sh/xnViP/da335d1b7e.png, move 01:24:258 (3,4,1) - a bit manually for better visual
  5. 01:28:995 (2,3) - i'm not favoring the overmap here tho it's for playability
:arrow: all fixed

talked with mapper about top diff and we fixed some spacings and volumes, i can help rebubble after above points are addressed
top diff irc
2017-08-31 19:19 Garden: hi can i irc mod the top diff with you?
2017-08-31 19:20 eLy: ok ~
2017-08-31 19:21 Garden: most suggestions are from playing aspects :>
2017-08-31 19:22 Garden: 00:22:048 (2,3,4) - increase volume for the triplet? the triplet lacks feedback right now
2017-08-31 19:22 Garden: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1309756 Hotaru Murasaki - Re:TrymenT [Re:TraumenD]]
2017-08-31 19:23 Garden: 01:11:627 (4) - same to this note idk if it's missing some hitsound or not
2017-08-31 19:26 eLy: 00:22:048 (2,3,4) -  volume 50% changed
2017-08-31 19:26 eLy: 01:11:627 (4) - add whistle
2017-08-31 19:27 Garden: 01:01:837 (7,8,1) - spacing emphasis should be on the triplet instead of 01:01:995 (1,2) - imo
2017-08-31 19:27 Garden: cuz vocal pitch is getting higher at 01:01:837 (7,8,1) -
2017-08-31 19:28 Garden: sth like https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8980162 would be nice
2017-08-31 19:29 Garden: 01:03:100 (7,8,1) - similarly, it doesn't deserve so much spacing in my view
2017-08-31 19:29 Garden: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8980173 plays better maybe
2017-08-31 19:31 Garden: lastly, 01:13:679 (1,2) - this jump kinda caught me off guard because in other 1-2-1-2, jump from 2 to 1 is always higher spacing for the emphasis
2017-08-31 19:32 Garden: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8980185 adjust spacing a bit can be perfectly fine :D
2017-08-31 19:35 eLy: nice :D
2017-08-31 19:35 eLy: all changed ~
2017-08-31 19:36 Garden: okie and one more thing, why not higher od in top diff?
2017-08-31 19:37 eLy: should i lower it ?
2017-08-31 19:38 Garden: ahh no i mean why is it lower than other extra diffs
2017-08-31 19:38 eLy: oh !!!
2017-08-31 19:39 eLy: sorry ok understood !
2017-08-31 19:39 eLy: od8.3 → od9 ok?
2017-08-31 19:39 Garden: and i posted other points in thread, feel free to call me when they are addressed :>
2017-08-31 19:39 Garden: yea its fine
2017-08-31 19:39 eLy: ok!
thank you Garden ;) !!
Krfawy
1,374 posts
Joined March 2012
Krfawy
Hi, a friend of mine showed me the mapset and I think I've found something that might be a little bit helpful or maybe meaningful.

General
  1. Personally I would say the green combo doesn't fit all backgrounds very well but if you make a bit less bright it should do the trick. How about [Red = 141 | Green= 216 | Blue= 97] instead? The colour would look like *THAT*
Re:TraumenD
  1. The difficulty name scares a life out of me to be honest. ;_;
  2. Personally I don't understand why this difficulty has a lower HP setting as it is supposed to be the hardest difficulty in the set. Any chances to make it HP7? x'D
  3. 00:05:311 (2,3) - Purely from the playing perspective the cursor movement would be smoother and more natural/intuitive from the patterning side if you CTRL+G it so the from-the-right-to-the-left flow were used consistently through the whole combo section here, 00:05:153 (1,2,3,4,5) - don't you think?
  4. 00:07:679 (1) - 00:08:627 (4) - These would work nicer if singly CTRL+G'd as the circular flow would be implemented for the whole gray combo section which looks like it has been used but then changed from my personal point of view.
  5. 01:22:048 (4) - In my opinion the circle should be placed more to the right, for example [X=360 | Y=264] (saying simply, the same XY position as of this note's 01:23:469 (1) - ) for the nicer emphasis on the vocal pitch, you know, the voice goes a bit higher so a little jump would work really nice here. :3
  6. 01:29:627 - And I really wish there were a circle to be clicked for the sake of continuing the audible vocal here. Now it feels pretty much empty. ;<
  7. 01:33:100 (3) - I would recommend you use a new combo here as the HP drain might be a little bit damaging as the previous two objects are the sliders, also I recommend it for the personal reasons as I believe that would be better from the very visuals and the regular need of new combos.
momoko's Extra and vellya's Extra
  1. 01:36:100 (1) - Whenever I feel the reverse is a good idea here I strongly believe that using a 1/8 reversing slider is a better option as it reflects the music better with the sharper sound.
So that's all I found and thought that was worth mentioning. I quite like the maps even though I usually don't like anything harder than two-star maps. Good luck with the qualification process girls and boys! \:3/
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

Krfawy wrote:

Hi, a friend of mine showed me the mapset and I think I've found something that might be a little bit helpful or maybe meaningful.

General
  1. Personally I would say the green combo doesn't fit all backgrounds very well but if you make a bit less bright it should do the trick. How about [Red = 141 | Green= 216 | Blue= 97] instead? The colour would look like *THAT*
    :arrow: no change
Re:TraumenD
  1. The difficulty name scares a life out of me to be honest. ;_;
  2. Personally I don't understand why this difficulty has a lower HP setting as it is supposed to be the hardest difficulty in the set. Any chances to make it HP7? x'D
    :arrow: fix
  3. 00:05:311 (2,3) - Purely from the playing perspective the cursor movement would be smoother and more natural/intuitive from the patterning side if you CTRL+G it so the from-the-right-to-the-left flow were used consistently through the whole combo section here, 00:05:153 (1,2,3,4,5) - don't you think?

    :arrow: I don't think so
  4. 00:07:679 (1) - 00:08:627 (4) - These would work nicer if singly CTRL+G'd as the circular flow would be implemented for the whole gray combo section which looks like it has been used but then changed from my personal point of view.

    :arrow: fix
  5. 01:22:048 (4) - In my opinion the circle should be placed more to the right, for example [X=360 | Y=264] (saying simply, the same XY position as of this note's 01:23:469 (1) - ) for the nicer emphasis on the vocal pitch, you know, the voice goes a bit higher so a little jump would work really nice here. :3

    :arrow: fix
  6. 01:29:627 - And I really wish there were a circle to be clicked for the sake of continuing the audible vocal here. Now it feels pretty much empty. ;<

    :arrow: add circle
  7. 01:33:100 (3) - I would recommend you use a new combo here as the HP drain might be a little bit damaging as the previous two objects are the sliders, also I recommend it for the personal reasons as I believe that would be better from the very visuals and the regular need of new combos.

    :arrow: keep
momoko's Extra and vellya's Extra
  1. 01:36:100 (1) - Whenever I feel the reverse is a good idea here I strongly believe that using a 1/8 reversing slider is a better option as it reflects the music better with the sharper sound.

    :arrow: I don't think so
So that's all I found and thought that was worth mentioning. I quite like the maps even though I usually don't like anything harder than two-star maps. Good luck with the qualification process girls and boys! \:3/
Garden
Nomination Assessment Team
1,343 posts
Joined June 2013
Garden
Lecana
00:55:679 (1) - is still missing finish

Cookie
01:29:153 (2) - still a ghost note following nothing, i suggest same solution as other diffs (delete 01:29:153 (2) - and extend 01:28:521 (1) - )

should be all now
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

Garden wrote:

Lecana
00:55:679 (1) - is still missing finish

Cookie
01:29:153 (2) - still a ghost note following nothing, i suggest same solution as other diffs (delete 01:29:153 (2) - and extend 01:28:521 (1) - )

should be all now
:arrow: 　ALL FIXED
Garden
Nomination Assessment Team
1,343 posts
Joined June 2013
Garden
b
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
Erisan

Garden wrote:

b
thank yooooou ><
Mir
osu! Alumni
2,151 posts
Joined July 2016
Mir
This still doesn't look ready.

I'm vetoing for rhythm and overmapping, mainly. Cookiezi's diff suffers from ambiguous rhythm the most so I went into a little extra depth on that.
[ReTraumenD]
Gonna talk mainly about kiai since that's where the core issue is but before that is slider tick rate 2 really necessary cuz it makes the slider ticks on stuff like 00:07:363 (4,1) - stand out so much and it's kind of annoying. I think this goes for all diffs actually (the song doesn't have that high density so tick rate 2 is ??? to me already)

- 01:01:205 (3,5) - I don't agree with the usage of this because there is no blue tick drum here yet one is hitsounded to the end of a 1/4 slider no less, what would work better I think is just putting a triple over 01:01:205 (3,4) - and even then I can't agree with how many triples are overmapped in this kiai.
- 00:59:311 (8,1) - Should be a triple considering syncopation as well as 00:58:679 (3,4,5) - is quite similar in terms of sound here.
- 01:02:311 (3,4,5) - This rhythm doesn't exist in the song and should be adjusted accordingly. Essentially 01:02:548 - needs to go.
- 01:04:048 (6,7) - I'm not particularly fond of how 6 gets more emphasis than the clearly stronger 7 here.
- 01:04:521 (1,2) - According to 01:02:311 (3,4,5) - there should be a triple here, but in order to maintain song relevancy I'll point this out as a reference as t why the first one doesn't work.
- 01:05:311 (4,5) - 5 is stronger yet 4 has more spacing?
- 01:06:100 (2,3) - 01:06:732 (2,3) - The song doesn't call for this much of a density increase imo, replacing these with circles (or better yet sliders) would represent what the song is doing a lot better here.
- 01:08:311 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5) - Overmapped triples aside they're not consistent with each other even - considering 01:08:784 (4,5,6) - covers two vocals the triple should actually be on 01:10:048 (5,6) - instead of 01:09:732 (2,3,4) - .
- 01:10:521 (7,8) - Again not really seeing a reason for these 1/4 sliders. :?
- 01:11:627 (4,5,6) - This triple is very out of place in a 1/1 vocal + 1/2 drum section. There's no syncopation and there's no 1/4 here, so I don't think this triple is necessary.
- 01:15:258 (1,2,1) - Same here, last 1 is stronger but 2 is getting more emphasis.

Out of the kiai now, (this list is not in order.)
- 01:25:205 (2) - 01:26:469 (2) - I don't think using filler rhythm in a section this calm is very appropriate. Maybe extend 01:24:732 (1) - instead.
- 01:26:942 (4,5) - Ctrl+g rhythm to follow vocals like you were with 01:25:995 (1,2,3) -
- 00:23:311 (2,3) - 00:25:837 (2,3,4) - Ctrl+g this rhythm to follow more of the piano with sliders, bringing it more in focus. (for all cases?)
- 00:26:942 (2) - Not sure why here you decided against using a 1/2 slider even though there's a pretty notable sound on the end. Would recommend making the end here clickable.
- 00:32:153 (3,4,5) - Triple isn't needed here, there's no syncopation nor 1/4.
- 00:44:153 (6) - Lacking in emphasis here compared to 00:44:469 (2,3) -
- 00:46:048 (4,5,6) - Another unneeded triple.
- 00:50:153 (5,6,7) - ^ and I'll stop pointing these out.

Overall the diff is still really overmapped, especially the kiai with cases like 01:00:416 (7,8,1) - 01:01:205 (3,4) - 01:02:548 (4,5) - 01:06:100 (2,3) - etc and I think it would better fit the song were these removed and replaced with circles or sliders depending on what I said in the mod.

Can we also talk about some of the other diffs?
[Cookiezi's Insane]
- 00:33:258 (2,3,4,5) - This rhythm dilutes vocals a lot like 00:33:732 - is skipped 00:33:258 (2,3) - is all circles so you can't really tell what's being followed either. Would recommend https://i.imgur.com/I3MFoML.png instead.
- 00:37:600 - Sometimes these are silenced other times not 00:30:021 - 00:24:969 - would be nice to be consistent.
- 00:40:521 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - This doesn't really follow vocals either since 00:41:469 - is unclickable.
- 00:41:627 (4,5,1,2) - Triple emphasizing 1 yet 2 has the piano on it?
- 00:45:890 (4,5,6,7,8) - So much piano keysounding but the rhythm here doesn't fit that at all, which is essentially what the song is doing anyways, and vocals are held here so the only other layer realistically to follow is piano but it starts off unclickable 00:46:048 - and 00:46:363 (6,7,8) - kinda dilutes it, what would be more clear is https://i.imgur.com/iEBW6Ja.png if you're going for piano.
- 00:47:153 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Sidenote making the gradual spacing increase more noticeable would be cool here. https://i.imgur.com/uD2n9Ep.jpg
- 00:56:311 (1,2,3,4,5) - This stream isn't in the sooonnngggg it shouldn't be there. :?
- 01:00:416 (3,4,5) - Suffers from the same overmapping stuff as the topdiff.
- 01:01:048 (3) - Reverse leaves the stronger vocal on the end of the slider, which isn't consistent with 01:01:837 (8) -
- 01:01:679 (6,7,8,1) - There is syncopation but not where the triple is now, it would make more sense to move it to 01:01:916 -
- 01:04:521 (6) - Pretty sure there should be an NC here?
- 01:06:416 (5,6,7,8,9) - This doesn't exist in the song, I don't think a stream is fitting for this part of the song where intensity is actually decreasing rather than increasing.
- 01:08:548 (2,3) - Similarly unneeded triples as topdiff.
- 01:09:574 (1,2,3) - This just plays weird, white tick triples on downbeats are very situational and play weird even on songs that have them. Considering this doesn't actually exist in the song it would make sense to remove.
- 01:10:837 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - More emphasis on 2 consistently despite 1 being stronger spacing-wise. Would recommend adjusting these to be the opposite.
- 01:12:416 (2,3,4) - No triple here but 01:12:574 (4,6) - looks pretty gross on autostack, consider moving them?
- 01:16:521 (5,6,7,8) - This is a very random-looking flow change, 01:16:995 (8) - doesn't stand out at all and it plays questionably relative to the song considering 01:15:890 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - is all one paragraph which should use the same jump flow conventionally etc.
- 01:19:679 (1,2,3,4,5) - This rhythm isn't quite what the song is doing either, more accurately: https://i.imgur.com/tBJbPDl.png
- 01:23:311 (4,5,1) - Density increase on a calm section in the song doesn't seem fitting imo, would remove these triples.
- 01:28:521 (6) - Pretty sure an NC should be here?

There's similar overmapping in litoluna's Insane 01:09:258 (1,2,3,4,5) - 01:09:890 (6,7,8) - 01:11:153 (2,3,4) - as there is in vellya's Extra: 01:02:942 (1,2,3,4,1) - 01:05:784 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) -
[ ]

Still too much overmapping - doesn't fit the song in the kiai sections at all and some questionable emphasis in the kiai as well. I just happened to notice those streams in Cookiezi's diff as well didn't exist in the song so I think that's worth mentioning too. I could have modded the rest but I felt the two mentioned diffs were worth looking at as a more extreme example of why this set isn't ready yet. There is probably a lot more work that could be done on Cookiezi's and vellya's part (idk how but vellya's seems more overmapped than topdiff in parts so..).

As a result I am vetoing this set for now, like all the others, because I feel like it's really necessary to improve this before it gets pushed further. I do realize that there have been many vetoes already, but this is due to you not attempting to reach a compromise and just finding other bns that agree with you. I for one don't think this is a viable tactic, since you will eventually run out of willing bns to bubble this (should be dubbed the "after rain effect"), so I suggest actually finding a compromise with either myself or some of the prior veto-holding bns. If you are willing, I am always free to be sent a forum PM. I don't have time this week but on the weekend I can see if there's a way for me to help out.

This isn't meant as a personal attack or a bash to you in any way, but I've been following this set for a while since Lasse popped it and I can't consciously let this through. :?

I hope we can reach an agreement.
Kinomi
1,221 posts
Joined August 2012
Kinomi
I hope you guys can really reach an agreement not only say what you want to see in mapping.
According to another mod mir do in another map i can see this person's mapping concept is totally different from you ely.
So personally i think the vetoing has no sense, this is not attack, just tell you two how big this difference is.
On the other hand, mir's mod make me feel he can only mod what he is good at mapping or modding, he can't do an effective mod when there is a big difference between others and him.

All in all, i suggest you stop rank processing, then be away from this funny community for some days, forget this map and let it be graveyarded, finally you will find the beauty of the world.



Good luck, best wishes to all people here.

Bye.
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