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posted
I hope people doesn't flame and actually discuss, even against the point of the thread this time.
posted
the thread is retarded imo, if someone can get to #1 using mouse then mouse players shouldnt be discouraged at all
posted
Can someone lock this thread before it becomes a shit storm? Both are different ways of playing, there is no better or worse. Just better or worse players.
posted

LoliPantsu wrote:

the thread is retarded imo, if someone can get to #1 using mouse then mouse players shouldnt be discouraged at all
This thread is better than 99% of the usual G&R threads because it actually provokes a discussion.

[XV] wrote:

Can someone lock this thread before it becomes a shit storm? Both are different ways of playing, there is no better or worse. Just better or worse players.
I don't think quality threads need to be locked if the flames haven't sprouted yet.
posted

[XV] wrote:

Can someone lock this thread before it becomes a shit storm? Both are different ways of playing, there is no better or worse. Just better or worse players.
It'll only become a shit storm with people purposefully intending to create a shit storm. OP has made a perfectly fine post and it invokes discussion, what's wrong with that in the G&R thread? Just because you're too immature to handle discussion and opinion doesn't mean a thread should be shut down.
posted

Lagel wrote:

[XV] wrote:

Can someone lock this thread before it becomes a shit storm? Both are different ways of playing, there is no better or worse. Just better or worse players.
It'll only become a shit storm with people purposefully intending to create a shit storm. OP has made a perfectly fine post and it invokes discussion, what's wrong with that in the G&R thread? Just because you're too immature to handle discussion and opinion doesn't mean a thread should be shut down.
Why type such an arrogant post? Your answer makes no sense. OP post is great, but you sure know how this is going to be a shitstorm on the comments. This community is great, but also is full of people who can't make a good discussion without memeing or start to insult.
posted
Attacking a persons character e.g.

Lagel wrote:

you're too immature

[XV] wrote:

arrogant post
Is likely to evoke a personal response from the other person rather than encourage logical discussion so its best to edit these out before you post or this could turn into locked thread version 2. I don't care about not hurting peoples feelings or anything its just boring to read insults.

[XV] wrote:

Can someone lock this thread before it becomes a shit storm?
There has been plenty of mouse vs tablet threads that have been completely fine, I don't know how this one is any different.
posted
I think you slightly misunderstood the word "preference" (or is it me? Idk)

Let me give you an example : Player A has been playing osu! for 3 years using mouse. Then he heard of this so-called tablet that is better than mouse from someone. He decides to try it out for a while. But he's just way too convenient with his mouse compared to the tablet he just bought. In the end, he decides to continue playing osu! with his mouse as he PREFERS mouse over tablet.

The example above is what I think "preference" is. Preference is like a choice when you already know the advantages and disadvantages of each choices. So, when someone says "it's just preference", that doesn't mean that tablet and mouse are the same because in the end, it comes back to the players themselves. Some people just like playing with mouse for various reasons, and even if they know that tablet is better, they still choose mouse because of those "various reasons", and you can say that they prefer mouse over tablet.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

TL:DR
I actually agree that tablet is slightly or way better than mouse, but it's still a preference. In the end, you have to choose between the two and if you choose mouse, that means you prefer mouse and vice versa
posted
In the end it comes down to talent
posted

F1r3tar wrote:

LoliPantsu wrote:

the thread is retarded imo, if someone can get to #1 using mouse then mouse players shouldnt be discouraged at all
This thread is better than 99% of the usual G&R threads because it actually provokes a discussion.
A shitty flamebaity discussion isn't any better than the shitposts that happen usually
posted
Did not read OP because of terrible formatting. Is this some new drama again?
posted
tl;dr i've played both tablet and mouse and to my experience some maps are easier with tablet and some are easier with mouse

Although it might just be in only my personal experience, spaced streams, consistency of movement and repeated jumps with sharp angles are usually easier with tablet, while things such as low ar, snapping, linear patterns, and in general the cleanliness of cursor movement are improvements that I feel when playing with mouse (maybe cause of polling rate but I wont go into why there are advantages). I can't put all of the advantages and disadvantages into words but from this I think everyone should realise that although tablet MIGHT (i stress might for some people - 'preference') be better for some people in certain aspects of the game ---> gaining PP because PP rain comes from jumps, acc, spaced streams, etc. that tablet excels at --- usually they will also suffer in other aspects of the game, which you will then excel at because of your choice of mouse over tablet. That's why mouse players (speaking really generally) will be better at some maps than tablet players assuming they have the same pp or 'skill' level, and of course the vice versa, as just stated would also true. Even to this day when I've switched to tablet I still find certain maps easier with mouse (because I used to be a mouse player), and certain maps I once fc'ed with mouse years ago I don't even think I can do today, despite how much pp I've gained with tablet

on a side note, tablet feels weird for me because reaching different parts of the tablet require different movements while you can just slide a mouse around on the same plane. Anyone else feel like this? O.o

don't take this out of context, i'm just stating my personal experiences with mouse and tablet; hopefully it might help someone reading it.

w
posted

Arthraxium wrote:

Did not read OP because of terrible formatting. Is this some new drama again?
yes
posted

Railey2 wrote:

My claim: Tablet is indeed generally better than mouse, when it comes to the purpose of gaining ranks in osu.

While there might be some pieces of anecdotal evidence that indicate the opposite, I believe that there is a large body of evidence that points in the other direction. There is also an argument to be made to refute the "just preference"-belief thoroughly.

1. The large body of observational evidence.

Keep in mind that some of following argument aren't knock-out arguments. There might be alternative explanations as for why we observe things as they are. The observations do, however, suggest that my claim is true or at least more likely to be true.

  1. most of the top-players do use a tablet (9 out of the top10), even though the rest of the player-base is notably divided.
    This is, of course, not a definite argument for my claim, but it is something we'd expect to see if tablet was in fact the better option, and something we would not expect to see (to such a big degree) if tablet and mouse were completely equal. This imbalance might be explained by other factors (such as tablets being popularized by star-players, or tablet feeling more comfortable while not necessarily giving any real benefits). I do, however think that the imbalance is too big to just be explained away with the two counter-explanations I gave.
  2. There are many instances where players reported a sudden and sharp increase in skill over a short period of time after acquiring a tablet, even though they had no prior experience with tablets.
    Now this is big. This is not something we would expect to see if tablet was less viable or just as viable as mouse.
    This, paired with a lack of reports of people buying a tablet and playing consistently worse with it, even after prolonged training, makes for a strong argument that tablets are generally more viable.

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


In conclusion:


It is already false to assume that tablet vs. mouse is "just preference" (see argument 2). While there are examples of top players who use mouse, the majority of successful players use a tablet. On top of that, we have a large amount of players who gained a lot of skill pretty fast after acquiring a tablet, and a lack of reports on people buying a tablet and playing consistently worse with it, even after prolonged training. This, while not being definite proof, seems to suggest that tablet is the better option.
I concede that there will be exceptions. I claim that tablet is generally the better option for most people, long-term.
In absence of sufficient evidence to the contrary, I find it hard to believe that mouse is better than tablet.


discuss.I believe my opinion is superior to anything you plebs can come up with. Cry.*fixed
First off, I feel like you're the kinda person who's absolutely in-love with numbers, so much so that they disregard anything and everything that is otherwise. You're completely disregarding the fact that this communities attitude jerks off to tablet users on the daily. If this game had a larger player base that actually used mouses, i'm positive things would be different. How can you make an assumption when people are surrounded with the notion that tablet is superior to mouse? Play style, attitude, mentality, physical capabilities, life style etc etc all comes into play as to how one performs in this game, and it all reflects on their rank.

"The majority of successful players use a tablet". This is such a terrible argument. People have been using tablets since it was discovered you could play with a it. People find it easier because of the accuracy and convenience you get with playing with a tablet, as well as the non-stop circle jerking this community gives to tablet users and tablets in general. People are sheep, it's not news nor will it ever be, but everyone wants to fit in and join the norm. If you were to walk into a room filled with people whispering, you'd start whispering unless you're an arrogant asshole. If you were to walk into a room filled with people doing anything opposite of what you were, I swear on my life you'd follow. The bystander effect is too great and has too big of a play in this game for you to throw around weak accusations of the Tablet being better than the Mouse.

Secondly, hand limitations come into play. The hand can only rotate so much or move in a certain direction. When using the Tablet, it takes a while to get used to these limitations and what movement of the hand causes the pen to snap in a certain way. By playing more and smashing out that play count and notes hit, sure, you'd get used to it and acquire aim, eventually. With a mouse, I believe it is undeniably easier to snap and hit notes. AngeLMegumin, CptnXn, Doomsday and so forth being my prime examples - However, the effort required to master the use of the Mouse and conquer mouse drift is too great for the results, which is why no one uses it, as well as reasons said before. People would rather spend 5 months to get half decent compared to a year or even a year and a half to get even better. I'm not sure why, but when it comes to comparing Tablets to Mouse, I seem to be the only person to ever consider bio-mechanics. Looking at the Tablet vs the Mouse from that point of view, the mouse would be easier as it requires less muscle and less movement to achieve greater output, compared to the Tablet, using all of the hand, fingers and wrist depending on the size of the area.

There's too many variables to consider, especially with a game like this, as to determining what's better and why. When you only cover a quarter of the basis, no shit will X look better than Y.

"Most of the top-players do use a tablet (9 out of the top10)" - People are sheep and have been using Tablets and adhering to the notion of Tablets being superior since it was discovered you could play with one.

"There are many instances where players reported a sudden and sharp increase in skill over a short period of time after acquiring a tablet, even though they had no prior experience with tablets." - Mouses have a larger learning curve but provide greater results with minimal physical effort in the long run. Also, equipment comes into play here. A $2 mouse and shitty mouse pad won't get anyone anywhere.

"2. It's just preference" - Your whole argument about this is weak and disjointed. You don't know at all which input is better suited for the "complex machine", so how can you argue against it? Only by finding what's comfortable and practicing with it, or experimenting with multiple devices or input would you find what's best.
posted

RunielVermell wrote:

In the end it comes down to talent playing more
Fixed
posted

shortpotato wrote:

on a side note, tablet feels weird for me because reaching different parts of the tablet require different movements while you can just slide a mouse around on the same plane. Anyone else feel like this? O.o
Yeah I've had the feeling and found this super disorientating. When I switched back to mouse from using a tablet for ages the mouse moved in a totally different way than I expected. My brain probably mixed up the muscle memory of the 2 peripherals and it took a little while to adjust. The same happened when switching to tablet from mouse.
posted
You're not gonna get anywhere trying to use logic to convince people of evident truths that they're too stupid to grasp in the first place. It's just wasted effort.
posted
Mouse is basically a fat tablet pen. Make a tablet pen too fat, shape it into something that looks like a mouse and it already has the advantages/disadvantages of a mouse

But since this game is MOSTLY about control and not just mere speed (which is the advantage of a mouse), the one with lesser total surface area, weight, volume is always objectively superior (at least for this game) It's somewhat like the chopsticks; they shaped it to be not too thick (for more control over food regardless of size you want to pick up), not too thin (so the chopsticks have the bulk to support the food you picked up) and has long (or varied) reach for ease of eating. It's also like juggling balls; the optimal size and weight for a ball is to ideally make a single hand capable of immediately grabbing it and not some bloated one like basketball's and soccer's since it's too large and heavy. Not like it's impossible to do it but it's harder than juggling with something smaller.
posted

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

The pp of top plays from cookiezi and Rafis both came from higher OD rather than aim
lol
posted

shortpotato wrote:

on a side note, tablet feels weird for me because reaching different parts of the tablet require different movements while you can just slide a mouse around on the same plane. Anyone else feel like this? O.o
I do, it's more like I need extra effort to do jump.
I keep playing with tablet for 2 years, now I good at nothing but stamina as a result.
I'd have switch back to mouse if I could.
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