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RADWIMPS - Yume Tourou

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Nozhomi
Hello~ Sorry but I think there's still a lot to improve on this mapset before moving it forward.

Your Name :
  1. 00:24:473 - to 00:52:379 - the SV you used don't reflect the song at all. Since the pace of this part is calm and the vocal really slow, you should use a lower SV in order to catch more the nature of the song here. I think it could be applied to Hard and Insane too.
  2. 00:54:738 (1,2) - I don't understand with this NC here. It don't have any sense with your hitsounding or music, and you don't do that on Insane. I suggest you to take a look on all of them again.
  3. 01:04:513 (1,2,3,4) - This pattern play not that great, at this SV speed, the anticiped way to play it should be having 01:04:850 (2) - under 01:04:513 (1) - and followed by a nice flow with the third slider (quick example https://puu.sh/s0IeL/9a0e307dfc.png must be improved ofc).
  4. 01:16:311 (4) - Since you used a Normal hitsound at the end, I supposed you wanted to emphasis the song here. But one there's not such sound on the music, and second if you really wanted that, two circles works definitely better for that purpose.
  5. 01:17:828 (5,6,8,1) - I can understand for (5,6) since the vocal can call a little jump, but since when (8,1) is different from 01:15:300 (1,2,3,4) - ? Also 01:19:176 (3,4) - is way more stronger than it and don't even have a little higher spacing.
  6. 01:22:041 - Don't make this beat play passively, it's the start of the guitar and vocal is also strong here, and you even put a finish here so why ? Make it clickable.
  7. 01:27:435 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This pattern don't work at all. If you listen the music, you can hear the song is composed like this : 2 / 3 / 2 / 1, but you did a 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 who don't fit at all.
  8. 01:29:794 (5,6,7) - I don't think you should map them like 01:29:457 (1,2,3,4,5) - , simply because drums are over, and these are guitar and have much less intensity than drums.
  9. 01:30:131 (1,2) - I'm ok for symmetry pattern, but why a such high spacing when 01:31:480 (1,2) - have a way more intensity in vocal but lower spacing ? It doesn't make sense at all. And you did it right for 01:35:525 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - !!!
  10. 01:55:749 (1,2,3,4,5) - Why streams in this section have a higher spacing than 00:53:727 (1,2,3,4,5) - who is absolutly the same with no higher intensity ?! Use the same than 1st section for all streams here.
  11. Last, I suggest you to take a look again at your NCs on this section, 01:03:165 - it's a real mess. For example why no NC at 01:07:210 (5) - or 01:17:996 (6) - when you did for 01:13:952 (1,1) - who have the same strong vocal beat to NC ? Redo them pls.

Another suggestions for other diffs

Easy :
  1. 00:27:263 (3,1,1) - should use the same spacing since 00:28:659 (1) - is visible before (3) ends.
  2. 01:11:255 (1,2) - Little spacing error.
  3. 01:26:761 (2) - Why suddenly 0.80x spacing ?
Insane :
  1. 00:32:496 (3) - I think this could be stacked normally with 00:31:798 (2) - .
  2. Onec again I don't understand how you did NCs here. It changes all the time without any visible construction or logic to me.

Call me to see if I approve the changes / fixes.
Mukyu~
Topic Starter
NoHitter

Nozhomi wrote:

Hello~ Sorry but I think there's still a lot to improve on this mapset before moving it forward.

Your Name :
  1. 00:24:473 - to 00:52:379 - the SV you used don't reflect the song at all. Since the pace of this part is calm and the vocal really slow, you should use a lower SV in order to catch more the nature of the song here. I think it could be applied to Hard and Insane too. A change in SV isn't required to contrast slow parts of the song with the fast parts. It can also be done through volume and hitsounds (which is what I did). If you really wanted to be pedantic about it, the BPM in this section is lower anyway, so it is a slider speed change.
  2. 00:54:738 (1,2) - I don't understand with this NC here. It don't have any sense with your hitsounding or music, and you don't do that on Insane. I suggest you to take a look on all of them again. It's an emphasis on the clap-clap part of the song, and also acts as to visually alert to the incoming jump. While combo consistency is an important feature, minor exceptions especially for alerting the player or for emphasis on certain song parts is permittable.
  3. 01:04:513 (1,2,3,4) - This pattern play not that great, at this SV speed, the anticiped way to play it should be having 01:04:850 (2) - under 01:04:513 (1) - and followed by a nice flow with the third slider (quick example https://puu.sh/s0IeL/9a0e307dfc.png must be improved ofc). The anticipated way to play a pattern? I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean there. Also, there is flow in this pattern, all three sliders follow a M-shaped flow between each other.
  4. 01:16:311 (4) - Since you used a Normal hitsound at the end, I supposed you wanted to emphasis the song here. But one there's not such sound on the music, and second if you really wanted that, two circles works definitely better for that purpose. Yes the hitsound isn't present in the song, but it gives variety to an otherwise dull constant hitsounding pattern(think of songs where you instead of going clap-clap-clap-clap all throughout, you sometimes go clap-clap-clap-clapclap.) As for your second point, I see you were saying that you wanted it to play less passively because of the normal-hitsound, but I bring up your argument that the actual normal-hitsound isn't there. Therefore, wouldn't it odd if I changed them to notes, making them play actively when they don't exist? Ergo, I did the compromise by making it end of a slider instead, so I can get the benefit of the changing hitsound, while not fully deviating from music theory.
  5. 01:17:828 (5,6,8,1) - I can understand for (5,6) since the vocal can call a little jump, but since when (8,1) is different from 01:15:300 (1,2,3,4) - ? Also 01:19:176 (3,4) - is way more stronger than it and don't even have a little higher spacing. Pattern consistency is what I was looking for here. The second combo's point of reference was the normal spacing used in the song, i.e. 0.8x. The pattern-mapped combo before it is irrelevant to the actually perceived spacing increase.
  6. 01:22:041 - Don't make this beat play passively, it's the start of the guitar and vocal is also strong here, and you even put a finish here so why ? Make it clickable. Done.
  7. 01:27:435 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This pattern don't work at all. If you listen the music, you can hear the song is composed like this : 2 / 3 / 2 / 1, but you did a 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 who don't fit at all. If that was the case, then why didn't you point out 01:24:738 (1,2,3,4) - as well, which is also a 2/2/2/2 pattern (but with sliders with the slider start and end acting like two notes)? That part is equivalent to the slider's part.
  8. 01:29:794 (5,6,7) - I don't think you should map them like 01:29:457 (1,2,3,4,5) - , simply because drums are over, and these are guitar and have much less intensity than drums. I deleted the note at 01:29:878 and adjusted spacing. I could still here a distinct sound at 01:29:963, so I left it there.
  9. 01:30:131 (1,2) - I'm ok for symmetry pattern, but why a such high spacing when 01:31:480 (1,2) - have a way more intensity in vocal but lower spacing ? It doesn't make sense at all. And you did it right for 01:35:525 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - !!! I toned down the spacing a bit. Hopefully it's alright enough.
  10. 01:55:749 (1,2,3,4,5) - Why streams in this section have a higher spacing than 00:53:727 (1,2,3,4,5) - who is absolutly the same with no higher intensity ?! Use the same than 1st section for all streams here. As the map ends, you sometimes see an increase in difficulty. It's the same case here. The same section is repeated musically, but to spice it up, you increase the difficulty a little, but not to the point it appears to be a completely different difficulty classification.
  11. Last, I suggest you to take a look again at your NCs on this section, 01:03:165 - it's a real mess. For example why no NC at 01:07:210 (5) - or 01:17:996 (6) - when you did for 01:13:952 (1,1) - who have the same strong vocal beat to NC ? Redo them pls. Barring those for clap-clap emphasis like 01:16:311 (4,1) - , the NCs you are looking at questionable are based on the lyrics and where they properly pause were you to say them out loud in Japanese. I decided to do that for this section, because at this point the other instruments were still taking a back seat to the vocals.

Another suggestions for other diffs

Easy :
  1. 00:27:263 (3,1,1) - should use the same spacing since 00:28:659 (1) - is visible before (3) ends. Does it even matter considering that the spacing difference is huge anyway? I can lower the note down further, but it may end up offscreen. What do you think?
  2. 01:11:255 (1,2) - Little spacing error. It was done to remove that ugly overlap which would happen if the slider was brought closer. A minor shift wouldn't throw the player off IMO.
  3. 01:26:761 (2) - Why suddenly 0.80x spacing ? Nice catch! Fixed.
Insane :
  1. 00:32:496 (3) - I think this could be stacked normally with 00:31:798 (2) - . Done.
  2. Onec again I don't understand how you did NCs here. It changes all the time without any visible construction or logic to me. They follow the same logic as Your Name, except for a couple of exceptions. 01:15:300 (1,2,3) - is to emphasize the patterning made by 01:14:626 (4,5,6,1,2,3,1,2,3) -.

Call me to see if I approve the changes / fixes.
Mukyu~ Thanks for the mod
I see we have quite a few disagreements regarding how the difficulty is handled. I hope we can amicably resolve this difference in opinion.
Nozhomi
I'm still disagree how you handle some stuff, but fine you're free to go.

sonnyc is free to rebubble. I invite the next BN to look at my suggestions tho.

Good luck ~
Sonnyc
Your name.
01:04:513 (1,2,3) - I've found this a little awkward to be asymmetric, while 01:09:907 (1,2,3) was a symmetric form xdxd
01:29:204 (5) - Grid down.
01:30:047 (7) - A grid up please. The triple's spacing is uneven.

nazinazi
Sonnyc
Nominated.
Topic Starter
NoHitter

Sonnyc wrote:

Your name.
01:04:513 (1,2,3) - I've found this a little awkward to be asymmetric, while 01:09:907 (1,2,3) was a symmetric form xdxd
01:29:204 (5) - Grid down.
01:30:047 (7) - A grid up please. The triple's spacing is uneven.

nazinazi
/late but fixed and talked about in irc
Nao Tomori
hey dude, it's great to see you changed up some of those patterns we talked about a few weeks ago. unfortunately, your map has a serious unrankable issue that might warrant a nuke icon!!! check it out:

01:41:423 (2) - blanket is off

actually one other thing: 01:27:603 (2) - the spacing on this seems to be arbitrarily lower than 01:27:940 (4,6,8) - but imo they should all be the same spacing. or at least all have follow points showing


nothing to pop bubble over obviously but please take a look anyway
Topic Starter
NoHitter
^ That actually scared me. Got really baited.

I can fix the above. To the next BN, could you allow me to also fix the above along with whatever action you'll take.
smallboat
Confirm Nao Tomori and nothing to say to that. Qualified
Topic Starter
NoHitter

smallboat wrote:

Confirm Nao Tomori and nothing to say to that. Qualified
Thanks a lot!
Froskya
Congratz!~
Brodogs
Glad to see you keeping mostly to your style, always liked your maps. Good luck!
Kyouren
Gratzz! :3
Kaitjuh
Congrats!
Nao Tomori
gratz dude
Monstrata
Man... why are the SV's on the intro so high o.o It makes the intro feel really rushed just because of how fast you have to move to keep up with the sliders. On the lower diffs it's already forced, but on Insane / Your Name the fact that you use spacing thats less than 1.00 means that players have to slow down after playing the sliders in order to snap to the circles.

Also, the zigzag streams on the highest diff are really annoying to play xP. They're so spaced too, for 1/4's that are barely audible. But i guess this applies to a lot of your 5 note streams too. I don't see why they have to be spaced that far apart, especially when the 1/4's are so soft (if they even exist).

01:59:626 - Sounds quite off. 01:59:668 - is more accurate, but even then, i suspect there needs to be a bpm shift here or something. You can also hear that the drum on 01:59:752 - is completely off. This all tells me the track itself is probably messed up here and you'll need an offset shift or a different bpm value to fix it.
Topic Starter
NoHitter

Monstrata wrote:

Man... why are the SV's on the intro so high o.o It makes the intro feel really rushed just because of how fast you have to move to keep up with the sliders. On the lower diffs it's already forced, but on Insane / Your Name the fact that you use spacing thats less than 1.00 means that players have to slow down after playing the sliders in order to snap to the circles.
- In the end, I think this feels more of a stylistic choice (2014-style mapping) than an actual issue. Maps don't necessarily need to use reduced SVs to contrast slow parts from fast parts. This can be done using rhythm simplification (which the intro compared to the other parts is) and/or low volume/usage of softer samples (which the intro also uses).
- Also, regarding the 0.8x DS, it's my usual go to DS when mapping linearly.


Also, the zigzag streams on the highest diff are really annoying to play xP. They're so spaced too, for 1/4's that are barely audible. But i guess this applies to a lot of your 5 note streams too. I don't see why they have to be spaced that far apart, especially when the 1/4's are so soft (if they even exist).
- Again, I believe this is more of a stylistic choice with the zigzag sliders. As for the 1/4s, if played both on 100% and 25% speed, and sounds can definitely be heard on those 1/4s.

01:59:626 - Sounds quite off. 01:59:668 - is more accurate, but even then, i suspect there needs to be a bpm shift here or something. You can also hear that the drum on 01:59:752 - is completely off. This all tells me the track itself is probably messed up here and you'll need an offset shift or a different bpm value to fix it.
- It sounds completely fine to me. The first two are on drum, and the last one is due to a late guitar. The drum after that is slightly off, but the guitar and drums after that are all on sync. I think it's more of an artefact of the song rather than something of concern. Besides, those parts are all populated by either sliders (slider leniency) or black spaces (not a problem).

Edit: After checking with someone else, the timing is correct, but it seems that the drums seems to switch to 1/6 at certain periods of the song, while the guitar stays at 1/4. That would be difficult to map intuitively. In that case, the better option would be to use slider leniency to balance out the weird parts, while keeping to a beat that's easily followable (1/4).
Thanks for the input. I appreciate you spending time on the map, but I believe they're non-issues. I hope we can resolve any misgivings amicably.
Monstrata
Talking with Sonnyc reminded me that some people still map for precision instead of aim, so I can overlook the fast SV's.

The spaced streams though, still feel extremely forced. The 1/4's are barely audible in some places, and others, I don't even think they exist. It really doesn't feel appropriate mapping them to something so spaced.

About the 1/4's and 1/6's, I guess you can use slider-leniency though I don't think that's an acceptable solution nowadays since timing and mp3 editing are so readily available. I won't worry about that though, but my main concern for bringing them up was that in those places, the 1/4's are definitely audible, yet you usually map them to repeat sliders. It contributes to the streams feeling forced because: strong 1/4 sound = repeat slider | weak or inaudible 1/4 sound = spaced streams.

Anyways, maybe i'll just make my own version then lol.
Topic Starter
NoHitter
Even with changing the timing so that the triples will land on the 1/6 (assuming you fervently follow the drums), I think that the transition of 1/4, 1/4, 1/6 is so jarring in itself that your only option would be slider leniency.

It's a not-so-good feature of the song which we have to map around with.

Good luck with your mapset if you do try to go forward with it. We definitely need more maps of these awesome songs.
Monstrata
Hmm. Okay I can accept that then. Not all songs are made for rhythm games after all, so sometimes producers neglect to correct every single minor inconsistency in the track. I suppose this song's not really a big offender compared to some supercell stuff haha.
Dark_Ai

NoHitter wrote:

You should definitely watch this movie.
I will watch this yeah

but gratz :3
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