The reason you can (probably) never become a pro at osu

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Jukkii

astelios wrote:

Pls.
Talent doesn't exist.
Do u still believe in Santa?
I cant tell if youre joking or very stupid.
LoliPantsu
astelios

-Jukke- wrote:

I cant tell if youre joking or very stupid.
Oh ... I forgot what it was like over here ...
Osu forum quality level TO THE MAX!

Bye forum o/
ithgyu

LoliPantsu wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/u/7260014
He has a very good work ethic, its disgusting that people dismiss this as nothing but talent when they wont even put a fraction of that work ethic in. If you actually believe the crap in this thread, then yeah, you just never had the mindset required to go far in this game.
Raiden

astelios wrote:

Pls.
Talent doesn't exist.
Do u still believe in Santa?

Edit: just read the entire post. NVM, 5 years old kid logic.
BUT, I think AGE (I'm "old") does impact on the ranking/pp.
I've seen kids half my age that started to play the game stream way too faster than me :(
But who knows ... I'm not playing anymore :o
o/
Younger people learn stuff/skills way faster due to a phenomenon named "neuroplasticity" which decays at higher age, and instead we develop more the rational part of the brain as we age. That's why most top players are around the age of 16-18. Yet they started playing at the age of maybe 12-13, in which the brain is still developing in terms of both abstract thinking and physical skills.
AIice
Still not a good enough reason to quit kms
DeathAdderz
CMIIW, but long story short,
1. Talent exists.
2. Talent + hard work >> hard work only, assuming that the amount of hard work is the same.
3. Hard work can beat talent without hard work.
4. You can become high-ranked just with hard work alone, but the effort needed is higher compared to those who have talent.

Aren't these the point of this thread? What are we even arguing about?

And also, some people (including OP, I guess) are just not interested in getting to the top, probably because they don't have the time or something. That's why Railey keeps saying that he/she won't make it to the top.
LoliPantsu

ithgyu wrote:

LoliPantsu wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/u/7260014
He has a very good work ethic, its disgusting that people dismiss this as nothing but talent when they wont even put a fraction of that work ethic in. If you actually believe the crap in this thread, then yeah, you just never had the mindset required to go far in this game.
could you elaborate on good work ethic, not that im doubting you or anything but for my own use
Topic Starter
Railey2

LoliPantsu wrote:

ithgyu wrote:

He has a very good work ethic, its disgusting that people dismiss this as nothing but talent when they wont even put a fraction of that work ethic in. If you actually believe the crap in this thread, then yeah, you just never had the mindset required to go far in this game.
could you elaborate on good work ethic, not that im doubting you or anything but for my own use
What he is saying is: The reason you didn't make it beyond 5k pp even though you played so much is, because your work ethic sucks.

Factors outside of our control like talent aren't a thing and only used to discredit people. So now I'm going to discredit your work by saying that you just didn't try hard enough, even though you arguably tried harder already (more playtime).



That's the thing. If you deny the existence of talent, you are automatically discrediting the people that are not talented, by blaming them directly for their lack of success. It's hilarious how ithgyu keeps complaining about people discrediting his friend, when he does the same by implication to the majority of the playerbase. The irony is probably lost on him.

DeathAdderz wrote:

CMIIW, but long story short,
1. Talent exists.
2. Talent + hard work >> hard work only, assuming that the amount of hard work is the same.
3. Hard work can beat talent without hard work.
4. You can become high-ranked just with hard work alone, but the effort needed is higher compared to those who have talent.

Aren't these the point of this thread? What are we even arguing about?

And also, some people (including OP, I guess) are just not interested in getting to the top, probably because they don't have the time or something. That's why Railey keeps saying that he/she won't make it to the top.
Close but not quite. What I am saying is, that their rate of improvement is so much faster, that it is humanly impossible to catch up to them with just hard work alone.

If I have the ability to theoretically make it, is a question that is never going to be answered, but I will claim that people like taiga or chainpullz (who spent even more time than me, achieving visibly less), are NEVER going to make it, no matter how much they work.
Sayorie
I haven't visited here for a few days and I get to see drama the moment I get back. This is quite amusing.
Eraser

[Taiga] wrote:

nzbasic wrote:

I agree with your post, but keeping people determined that they can improve (ignorance is bliss argument) works a lot better than telling people that they could never improve.


Ahahahahahahaha xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Bro, stop posting when you didn't even touched real maps, you don't even know what means hard work in osu so pls xxxxxxxxxxxxxDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Play more
Lmao he didn't even said anything about osu. Also where are the moderators?
Be nice. Harassment or other antagonism has no place within the osu! community. Continual violation of this rule may result in the loss of ability to communicate with other users permanently.
Personal attacks are frowned upon. Criticism of all kinds is welcome and encouraged, but attacking other users personally is not allowed. If you cannot prove your point without such tactics, your point is not worth posting.
edit: seems like he already got it.
Sayorie
For a serious post, I'll give some insight and comments on your original post.

Railey2 wrote:

Talent is very elusive and hard to measure, but there is a simple way to do it.
Think of talent as the thing that caused the difference in skill between two players, that put the same amount of effort into the game. If we think of it like this, we can measure it just fine, because playcount is a decent approximation for effort (hitcount is even better, to be seen on peoples profiles), and pp is a decent approximation for skill. If someone gets more skilled with less effort, we can call them talented.
In the first place, I hate the word talent, because it puts people on a pedestal. There is no clear line between talented and talentless. Everyone does things better than others, with varying degree.
Since you compared two players from each other, your definition of 'talent' comes down to being completely relative and only between the two. If you include the whole playerbase to determine who's talented and who's not, you won't see it as two distinct categories between 'talented' and 'talentless'. You would see it as an ever growing slope of people in order of 'natural skill for the game', thus making the line for 'talent' to not exist at all.

My point? There is no simple way to measure talent.

Railey2 wrote:



Green would be an example of a talented player (lower playcount than everyone around him).
Red is an example of an untalented player (higher playcount than everyone around him).
This one pisses me off the most. You could at least censor the name, you know? The fact that you explicitly called Rayne as untalented was totally uncalled for. That's just completely rude.

Railey2 wrote:

Keep in mind that "talented" is a relative term, which means that it only becomes meaningful in comparison. We call red untalented, because he is less talented than the reference group, other people around rank 5k.
If we went back in time and checked how red was doing when he only had 1k pp, we may have found that red was a relatively talented player.
That is why you can't put 'talent' as a label to determine if you can become pro or not. Fuck off.

Railey2 wrote:

So, why is this relevant?

Simply put: As soon as you find yourself in the "untalented-bracket", it is time to bury your dream of becoming a top-player. This is particularly true if you get there early.
The top-players became top-players through hard work, but they were also very talented. You will find nobody in the top100 who isn't extremely talented, and the overwhelming majority worked very hard in addition to that. As a result, you will never catch up to them, if you are "just" hard working.
Hard work may beat talent, but it can't beat talent and hard work. The top, has both.
So how did you determine that everyone in the top 100 is extremely talented? Holy fucking shit. If that's your subjective opinion, then everyone might as well be talented too, subjectively.

Railey2 wrote:

But if you find yourself in the "average-bracket", or possibly even in the "talented-bracket", go ahead and play more. See how long your talent lasts. As soon as it runs out, you know that you are close to approaching your limit as a competitive player.
Great effort will get you far, but if you lack talent, it will never get you to the top.
Once again, you're treating talent as a 'perk' or a 'unique blessing' similar in video games. You

Railey2 wrote:

Lastly, a word for people that lack talent.

Change your goals. Osu can be an extremely fun game, especially without the pressure of playing for ranks. Discover new music, play with friends, play interesting maps. It's all about what you make of it. A more talented player once said "plz enjoy game", and this is good advice regardless of how talented you are. Settle for less, but enjoy it all the way.

Good luck to everyone! It's a rocky road that leads to the top100. Let's hope that you have the talent to make it there.

exceptions
There are cases where people put effort into the game in wrong ways, such as only playing for SS. In that case, their lack of success is not necessarily a result of them lacking talent, but rather a result of a misapplication of effort. It can be hard to tell the two apart sometimes, but what I wrote above still holds true either way.


Sorry, I already stopped trying to reason with this. Say what you want to say, I'm not stopping you.
Nevertheless, you're doing a pretty good job at discouraging a shit ton of players here.
Hope it makes you sleep at night.
Xyrus

Arthraxium wrote:

I haven't visited here for a few days and I get to see drama the moment I get back. This is quite amusing.
If only Gambler was here with Popcorn. :(
Rilene
Well, talent does obviously exist, at least as a skill improvement multiplier.
But I feel like the way the main postworded looks discouraring to some people, at least not me.
Nameless

Xyrus wrote:

If only Gambler was here with Popcorn. :(
No worries, I'll pass around the popcorn
just make sure taiga gets sweet rather than salty because the bitch is already salty enough

_handholding
by taiga's logic everyone can be the next ronaldo with hard work xd
-Makishima S-
Idc anymore, give some popcorn.

Just realized that talking to brick wall is more constructive than trying to show OP how much toxicity spread his initial post and how big slpa with stinky shit into face of every single player it is.

Whatever for me, gib some popcorn.
Nameless
Taiga I think you should get a job
anything that'll get you off this forum will be great
Yuudachi-kun
I didn't read this thread but you're all nerds
OnosakiHito
And that's how interesting topics get ruined. To avoid any more heated discussions and save the last dignity of some, I will just close the thread.
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