CustomiZ - COOLEST [CatchTheBeat]

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Topic Starter
Ascendance
benny you are everything i need and more
Pachiru
oh nice, why such good songs are ranked in catch, but not in std yet xD
gratz Ascendance :)
Topic Starter
Ascendance
Just to note, I will not accept any post-qualification mods that have anything to do with star rating. If you have valid complaints about the map that are major and worth fixing, feel free to point them out!

_handholding

Ascendance wrote:

benny you are everything i need and more
igorsprite
zuum
Kuya Frex
thanks for another farmable map Hahahhaha
MBomb
Hello! Just got some concerns regarding the top difficulty.

00:02:265 (1) - The note pitch intensity here is slowly decreasing, yet you chose to do a strong antiflow HDash to this note, with the only justification truly being the "line start", which whilst it could maybe be an explanation for a weaker HDash, it doesn't really explain why it's over 64px higher than the requirement for a HDash, and has antiflow attached to that, especially considering this is before there has been any true emphasis buildup in the song.

The above situation happens a lot throughout the map of a weaker note having a really strong HDash with antiflow after a note that has the same or higher intensity is completely ignored through usage of a sliderend or smaller movement.

00:04:340 (3) - What's the head of this mapped to? I can't hear any sound on it at all, if anything the only "sound" on it is the end of the hold note, which should be used as a slider rather than as a completely different note.

00:04:819 (4) - This is a case of being a similar note to 00:02:265 (1) - , yet with an entirely different movement pattern added of having little movement, whereas the previous case had a strong antiflow HDash.

00:07:691 (2,3,4) - Really question the usage of HDashes there, as it's clear the strong notes are done on the 1/1 ticks, yet you avoid doing the HDash to 3 and instead do one to 2 and 4, the weaker notes of this buildup part. Sounds really odd in terms of play.

00:09:207 - The note here being missing really stands out with how strong the drum is on it, considering 00:09:686 (5) - was mapped as a weaker drum note, and it just makes it sound really bad from a musical perspective.

Throughout the map, HDash distances consistently feel about 2x stronger than they should do, which makes the emphasis feel really off because the difference between a normal dash and a HDash is so huge, and whilst it's done consistently throughout the map, it doesn't feel like there's any particular reason for the HDashes to be so strong other than "I want them to be". If you really do intend to keep that as a gimmick, instead of using it the whole way through, it'd be a lot nicer to only do it that way on the intense parts of the song, to avoid it feeling oversaturated, and also to provide some level of differentiation between the sections.

00:11:042 (2) - The lack of musical accompaniment here makes a HDash seem fitting, however the problem is that with the rest of the map so far, it feels really out of place due to this seeming like it should be the beginning of the wind-down section, however it carries on with that intense feeling into the next section, where it feels like it ends a bit too late.

00:12:638 (1) - Why is there even a HDash to this at all? It's a downbeat, but with the musical techniques used in the song, it sounds as if the previous 1/2 beat is seen as the end of the line and so the technical "downbeat" is there, which once again you've used as a slider-end. I'll try to stop mentioning these now, but this one stood out to me as particularly not fitting.
Just in reference to this point, you realise exactly what I say in the next line with how 00:14:872 (4,1) - is mapped.

00:16:387 - Not really any sound on this at all, makes it feel unnecessarily overmapped to a weird degree.

00:24:446 (2) - Considering previous sections, the HDash to this feels very strange due to just being used to emphasise a slightly stronger vocal (As the drums are something you specifically haven't emphasised in similar sections to this point), when really a normal dash sounds a lot better music wise.
00:25:723 (2) - Above case is even worse with this one.

00:27:000 (2,3) - Here's exactly a point that makes me feel the whole "Strong HDash" gimmick could've actually been used to a lot better of an extent. There's a clear difference in the intensity between this vocals, with the "EST" standing out a lot more, yet the HDash strengths really do not acknowledge this or make it stand out in the music at all compared to the other part.

00:27:797 (5) - There is barely any note at all here. What is that ridiculous distancing.

00:31:468 (3) - Why is this an antiflow HDash when the note is so much weaker than surrounding notes by a long shot with a lack of drum on there?

00:34:500 (2) - Once again, not gonna point out every case like this but it's another case of where you use a HDash to a note, and then use much less prominent vocals/beats as slider repeats/ends.

00:35:617 (1) - The jump to this is completely across screen whilst the note isn't really strong at all, I don't really understand why you've chose to do this.

And so on, this goes on throughout the map with really weird emphasis usage or completely unfitting HDash strengths with the music, and I feel these issues really need to be addressed. Feel free to find me in game if you do need anymore help with finding all of these cases, however I'm very sure that you can find the cases yourself.
celerih
yo, I also have some problems with it, I'll mostly cover some stuff in the kiai
The song has 2 main things going on, the vocals and the drums. The map fails to represent either of these consistently or accurately, and a lot of the rhythms aren't supported by the song

Top diff:
  1. 00:33:223 (2,3,4) - Would make a lot more sense to space out these three from 00:33:063 (1) - since both vocals and drums come back here, even though you're following the 1/4 piano. Since vocal and drums layers are the main focus in the map, you can keep the constant 1/4, yet differentiate them to properly follow more than 1 layer at once
  2. 00:46:228 - The song has a huge tendency of having gaps in it's drums, it's a common theme throughout the map, yet you keep overmapping these and ignoring the actual drum patterns of the song
  3. 00:49:100 (5) - same as above
  4. 00:50:217 - yet here both vocals and drums are present on the 1/4 and you ignore it
  5. 00:58:036 (2,4) - both of these are overmapped. This removes any contrast you could have with the increase in both density and intensity here 00:58:276 (5,6,7,8) -
  6. 01:03:063 (1,2,3,4) - 1/4 sliders here completely ignore the actual drums of the song. 01:03:143 - 01:03:462 - here both don't have drums on them, and this is even reflected in the hitsounding where these slider ends don't have claps on them
  7. 01:03:542 (4,1) - This is the start of the second kiai, is about as intense as the beginning of the kiai yet this hyper is weaker than the 1/4 hypers right before
  8. 01:13:595 (3,4) - drums stop, vocals get held, yet you overmap. a 3/4 slider starting from 01:13:595 - with a much higher spacing thatn the rest expressese the song about 100 times better, since both ovcals and drums on 01:13:595 - take a noticeable increases here, yet the map kinda does nothing. There is literally nothing that starts on 01:13:755 (4) -. It's even what you did in the Deluge diff
  9. 01:14:393 (2,3,4,5) - this whole thing should be a 1/1 slider, or a 1/2 on 01:14:393 - and keep 01:14:712 (5) - if you want to put more importance to the vocals starting there, but that triple has no place being there, you're just horribly misrepresenting the drums there
  10. 01:25:403 - slider end on the downbeat here isn't justified by anything reeally
  11. 01:25:484 (2) - 1/4 slider here should be moved to start on 01:25:563 -
  12. And when the song actually has an increase in density and intensity with 1/4 you ignore it 01:26:281 - 01:26:999 (2) - (this one is by far one of the strongest blue tick note in the song yet it's not even mapped)


Deluge:
  1. 00:52:531 (8,9) - Both top diff and overdose follow the 1/8 piano you're just being inconsistent here


So basically my main issues are overmapping in the kiai, a lot of it done in a pretty bad way, that's made even more apparent when you consider the hitsounding, which actually follows the song and clashes with how the maps is doing it's rhythms, which only server to make the overmapping stand out in the worst possible way.

before anyone tries to tell me I waited for this to be qualified before modding, I hadn't actually looked at the map before, and only because it was qualified I decided to give it a look. Instead of trying to discredit someone with pointless arguing I'd rather see an actual discussion about the problems the map has
Topic Starter
Ascendance
k i'll reply to these points when i get home

most of it is subjective as hell so just be prepared in advance and dont create a shitstorm when i don't want to make my map into your own vision of what it should be

@QATs, don't DQ until I reply, kindly. Thank you
_handholding
If you end up wanted to DQ the map for whatever reason I stated some stuff, to test my modding skill and for a bit of fun ~
[]

Platter
  1. 00:20:616 (2) - I think having a 1/1 slider here would be good to contrast in both rhythm and movement with 00:21:095 (3) because of how the song is https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10382136
  2. 00:51:574 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - Perhaps add claps to the whole stream? Felt a bit weird to me how it continued the 1/2 clap hitsound pattern even though it used 1/4 rhythms

[]

Celerih wrote:

Deluge:
00:52:531 (8,9) - Both top diff and overdose follow the 1/8 piano you're just being inconsistent here
I don't believe that a map should be dictated 100% from how the other diffs were made, because you know, they different diffs and a player isn't playing the other diff when player this one.

I do think getting rid of the 2 1/4 sliders and replacing it with a 3/4 slider would give a nice emphasis to the 1/4 sliders at 00:52:850 (1,2,3,4) https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10382212 . It's a bit subjective but yh
celerih

Kisses wrote:

celerih wrote:

Deluge:
00:52:531 (8,9) - Both top diff and overdose follow the 1/8 piano you're just being inconsistent here
I don't believe that a map should be dictated 100% from how the other diffs were made, because you know, they different diffs and a player isn't playing the other diff when player this one.

I do think getting rid of the 2 1/4 sliders and replacing it with a 3/4 slider would give a nice emphasis to the 1/4 sliders at 00:52:850 (1,2,3,4) https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10382212 . It's a bit subjective but yh
Then it would make more sense for the 1/8 not to be followed at all in the deluge diff because right now it's also inconsistent within the diff itself. This rhythm choice is just weird and it'd be best for the 1/8 to be followed twice within the diff or not at all. There's no major changes between the two sections that have the 1/8

Another possible solution for this would be keeping the Deluge and Top Diff as is, but remove the 1/8 in the overdose, which would help create a progression in the spread.
Topic Starter
Ascendance

MBomb wrote:

Hello! Just got some concerns regarding the top difficulty.

00:02:265 (1) - The note pitch intensity here is slowly decreasing, yet you chose to do a strong antiflow HDash to this note, with the only justification truly being the "line start", which whilst it could maybe be an explanation for a weaker HDash, it doesn't really explain why it's over 64px higher than the requirement for a HDash, and has antiflow attached to that, especially considering this is before there has been any true emphasis buildup in the song. It's more stressed than the other guitar sounds though, hence why there's a stronger HDash to it.

The above situation happens a lot throughout the map of a weaker note having a really strong HDash with antiflow after a note that has the same or higher intensity is completely ignored through usage of a sliderend or smaller movement.

00:04:340 (3) - What's the head of this mapped to? I can't hear any sound on it at all, if anything the only "sound" on it is the end of the hold note, which should be used as a slider rather than as a completely different note. emphasized pitch shift

00:04:819 (4) - This is a case of being a similar note to 00:02:265 (1) - , yet with an entirely different movement pattern added of having little movement, whereas the previous case had a strong antiflow HDash. Prioritized the much much larger sound between 00:04:819 (4,1) - instead. I could have increased this slightly, but I don't find it severe enough to make any change from what it is now.

00:07:691 (2,3,4) - Really question the usage of HDashes there, as it's clear the strong notes are done on the 1/1 ticks, yet you avoid doing the HDash to 3 and instead do one to 2 and 4, the weaker notes of this buildup part. Sounds really odd in terms of play. these are meant to be a transition period between sections like 00:07:212 (1,2,3,4) - of no HDashed 4-note patterns and 00:08:170 (1,2,3,4) - 2-2 HDash patterns. This 4-slider section includes both a 4plet and the 2-2 pattern, to ease the player into the larger shift. 00:07:531 (1) - Strong note (downbeat), 00:07:691 (2,3) - down time (4-note pattern), 00:08:010 (4) - pitch begins to increase towards the next section.

00:09:207 - The note here being missing really stands out with how strong the drum is on it, considering 00:09:686 (5) - was mapped as a weaker drum note, and it just makes it sound really bad from a musical perspective. This was mostly for the guitar sounds here but I'm not opposed to adding the extra note should it be DQ'd (doesn't feel like a good enough reason either way)

Throughout the map, HDash distances consistently feel about 2x stronger than they should do, which makes the emphasis feel really off because the difference between a normal dash and a HDash is so huge, and whilst it's done consistently throughout the map, it doesn't feel like there's any particular reason for the HDashes to be so strong other than "I want them to be". If you really do intend to keep that as a gimmick, instead of using it the whole way through, it'd be a lot nicer to only do it that way on the intense parts of the song, to avoid it feeling oversaturated, and also to provide some level of differentiation between the sections. What is the "base line" for how strong they should be though? There is no hard number of "this is too far", so it feels unfair that we use these terms against me when neither one of us would ever be able to agree on a hard number. The song is very intense, so other than "they're big because I want them to be", I wanted to create a difficulty that not only reflects the songs intensity, but also creates a meaningful change from the other two overdoses I made.

00:11:042 (2) - The lack of musical accompaniment here makes a HDash seem fitting, however the problem is that with the rest of the map so far, it feels really out of place due to this seeming like it should be the beginning of the wind-down section, however it carries on with that intense feeling into the next section, where it feels like it ends a bit too late. Could be reduced, but the HDash is made intentional due to the unique crash there and for a more powerful transition.

00:12:638 (1) - Why is there even a HDash to this at all? It's a downbeat, but with the musical techniques used in the song, it sounds as if the previous 1/2 beat is seen as the end of the line and so the technical "downbeat" is there, which once again you've used as a slider-end. I'll try to stop mentioning these now, but this one stood out to me as particularly not fitting.
Just in reference to this point, you realise exactly what I say in the next line with how 00:14:872 (4,1) - is mapped. Would fix this if it was DQ'd, but I don't think it's a large enough reason. Originally I wanted to use the hdash for a bit of strength on the back forths though.

00:16:387 - Not really any sound on this at all, makes it feel unnecessarily overmapped to a weird degree. I hear a souuuund

00:24:446 (2) - Considering previous sections, the HDash to this feels very strange due to just being used to emphasise a slightly stronger vocal (As the drums are something you specifically haven't emphasised in similar sections to this point), when really a normal dash sounds a lot better music wise.
00:25:723 (2) - Above case is even worse with this one. The song is beginning a transformation here, so beginning to add HDashes to more powerful vocals indicates to the player that there'll be a shift not only in the song but how it's mapped.

00:27:000 (2,3) - Here's exactly a point that makes me feel the whole "Strong HDash" gimmick could've actually been used to a lot better of an extent. There's a clear difference in the intensity between this vocals, with the "EST" standing out a lot more, yet the HDash strengths really do not acknowledge this or make it stand out in the music at all compared to the other part. The strong antiflow makes up for it not being such a big HDash.

00:27:797 (5) - There is barely any note at all here. What is that ridiculous distancing. Sorry

00:31:468 (3) - Why is this an antiflow HDash when the note is so much weaker than surrounding notes by a long shot with a lack of drum on there? The HDash is considerably weaker here but I wanted to stress the unique vocal as well as the synth crescendo

00:34:500 (2) - Once again, not gonna point out every case like this but it's another case of where you use a HDash to a note, and then use much less prominent vocals/beats as slider repeats/ends. This is like this because I find this group of vocals to be closely tied with one another, and also because the jump from 00:34:340 (1,2) - and 00:34:500 (2,3) - feel more powerful to me.

00:35:617 (1) - The jump to this is completely across screen whilst the note isn't really strong at all, I don't really understand why you've chose to do this. Sorry

And so on, this goes on throughout the map with really weird emphasis usage or completely unfitting HDash strengths with the music, and I feel these issues really need to be addressed. Feel free to find me in game if you do need anymore help with finding all of these cases, however I'm very sure that you can find the cases yourself.

celerih wrote:

yo, I also have some problems with it, I'll mostly cover some stuff in the kiai
The song has 2 main things going on, the vocals and the drums. The map fails to represent either of these consistently or accurately, and a lot of the rhythms aren't supported by the song

Top diff:
  1. 00:33:223 (2,3,4) - Would make a lot more sense to space out these three from 00:33:063 (1) - since both vocals and drums come back here, even though you're following the 1/4 piano. Since vocal and drums layers are the main focus in the map, you can keep the constant 1/4, yet differentiate them to properly follow more than 1 layer at once They're following the flute though (or whatever that instrument in the BG is). This sound is something unique to this section, so differentiating it from the rest feels better here to me.
  2. 00:46:228 - The song has a huge tendency of having gaps in it's drums, it's a common theme throughout the map, yet you keep overmapping these and ignoring the actual drum patterns of the song I prefer having a fluid map and if that means adding a few 1/4s to achieve that, then I don't mind. Removing the note here breaks flow, and in such a strong transition, I don't believe that would be the optimal choice.
  3. 00:49:100 (5) - same as above This has a flute noise
  4. 00:50:217 - yet here both vocals and drums are present on the 1/4 and you ignore it adding a 1/4 jump here wouldn't be very kind to the player, especially at the distances I chose to emphasize these powerful vocals at. I decided to simplify it and maintain the emphasis.
  5. 00:58:036 (2,4) - both of these are overmapped. This removes any contrast you could have with the increase in both density and intensity here 00:58:276 (5,6,7,8) - I don't think it needed contrast, both vocals are equally intense, so having them both be consistent with a 4plet feels nicer to play.
  6. 01:03:063 (1,2,3,4) - 1/4 sliders here completely ignore the actual drums of the song. 01:03:143 - 01:03:462 - here both don't have drums on them, and this is even reflected in the hitsounding where these slider ends don't have claps on them I prefer the additive 1/4s, they help to build intensity.
  7. 01:03:542 (4,1) - This is the start of the second kiai, is about as intense as the beginning of the kiai yet this hyper is weaker than the 1/4 hypers right before Fixable if it gets DQ'd, not a big enough reason to request one myself.
  8. 01:13:595 (3,4) - drums stop, vocals get held, yet you overmap. a 3/4 slider starting from 01:13:595 - with a much higher spacing thatn the rest expressese the song about 100 times better, since both ovcals and drums on 01:13:595 - take a noticeable increases here, yet the map kinda does nothing. There is literally nothing that starts on 01:13:755 (4) -. It's even what you did in the Deluge diff I hear 1/4s there and it's a nice transition into the final part of the song.
  9. 01:14:393 (2,3,4,5) - this whole thing should be a 1/1 slider, or a 1/2 on 01:14:393 - and keep 01:14:712 (5) - if you want to put more importance to the vocals starting there, but that triple has no place being there, you're just horribly misrepresenting the drums there Sounds nice to me
  10. 01:25:403 - slider end on the downbeat here isn't justified by anything reeally The downbeat doesn't make me feel it should be more powerful than 01:25:085 (7,1) - or 01:25:484 (2,3) - lol
  11. 01:25:484 (2) - 1/4 slider here should be moved to start on 01:25:563 - No, I don't think so.
  12. And when the song actually has an increase in density and intensity with 1/4 you ignore it 01:26:281 - 01:26:999 (2) - (this one is by far one of the strongest blue tick note in the song yet it's not even mapped) If it was strong enough I would have mapped it


Deluge:
  1. 00:52:531 (8,9) - Both top diff and overdose follow the 1/8 piano you're just being inconsistent here Diff uses harsh antiflow patterns rather than smooth 1/8 curves like the other diffs, just different representation.


So basically my main issues are overmapping in the kiai, a lot of it done in a pretty bad way, that's made even more apparent when you consider the hitsounding, which actually follows the song and clashes with how the maps is doing it's rhythms, which only server to make the overmapping stand out in the worst possible way.

before anyone tries to tell me I waited for this to be qualified before modding, I hadn't actually looked at the map before, and only because it was qualified I decided to give it a look. Instead of trying to discredit someone with pointless arguing I'd rather see an actual discussion about the problems the map has

Kisses wrote:

If you end up wanted to DQ the map for whatever reason I stated some stuff, to test my modding skill and for a bit of fun ~
[]

Platter
  1. 00:20:616 (2) - I think having a 1/1 slider here would be good to contrast in both rhythm and movement with 00:21:095 (3) because of how the song is https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10382136 you're not wrong there, maybe I'll fix it if people decide the redwall above is still enough to DQ over
  2. 00:51:574 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - Perhaps add claps to the whole stream? Felt a bit weird to me how it continued the 1/2 clap hitsound pattern even though it used 1/4 rhythms I didn't hitsound it but it seems fine to me :0

[]

Celerih wrote:

Deluge:
00:52:531 (8,9) - Both top diff and overdose follow the 1/8 piano you're just being inconsistent here
I don't believe that a map should be dictated 100% from how the other diffs were made, because you know, they different diffs and a player isn't playing the other diff when player this one.

I do think getting rid of the 2 1/4 sliders and replacing it with a 3/4 slider would give a nice emphasis to the 1/4 sliders at 00:52:850 (1,2,3,4) https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10382212 . It's a bit subjective but yh
Thank you all for your opinions, but to MBomb and celerih, it feels like you didn't quite understand my mapping well enough. "Big jumps" or "extra 1/4s" isn't a reason to be up in arms about something, I'm simply using the editor to make a map that I feel properly reflects the intensity of the song. Additive mapping (the 1/4s) is something used in plenty of maps, and as a standard nominator, you should be able to understand that quite well. I'm not abusing it in any case, I'm simply using them to support the flow of the map as a whole. I explained my points about "big jumps" in my reply to MBomb. If you have any valid argument against my replies, please do so, but I'd appreciate not having the same arguments thrown at my face until I cave in and eat a DQ.
MBomb

Ascendance wrote:

MBomb wrote:

Throughout the map, HDash distances consistently feel about 2x stronger than they should do, which makes the emphasis feel really off because the difference between a normal dash and a HDash is so huge, and whilst it's done consistently throughout the map, it doesn't feel like there's any particular reason for the HDashes to be so strong other than "I want them to be". If you really do intend to keep that as a gimmick, instead of using it the whole way through, it'd be a lot nicer to only do it that way on the intense parts of the song, to avoid it feeling oversaturated, and also to provide some level of differentiation between the sections. What is the "base line" for how strong they should be though? There is no hard number of "this is too far", so it feels unfair that we use these terms against me when neither one of us would ever be able to agree on a hard number. The song is very intense, so other than "they're big because I want them to be", I wanted to create a difficulty that not only reflects the songs intensity, but also creates a meaningful change from the other two overdoses I made.
Let me just be a bit more clear in what I meant by this, since I feel it may've been a bit misunderstood. I feel like having no HDashes between the really strong ones used throughout the map leads to a clear gap in speed between HDash movements and normal movements with no bridge between it, which I feel that although I understand it's part of the map concept, leads to a strange feeling. Hence why I feel as though maybe making HDashes weaker throughout the less intense parts would be a good way to fill this bridge whilst keeping the identity of the map.
BoberOfDarkness
No, I don't think so.
Deif
デイフですが?

This is exactly why the qualified section is for. I've checked the map myself and even though MBomb's mapping style totally crashes with yours he brought up some valid points that can be fixed.

Additionally, I've found some more things worth mentioning:
  1. Timing: Even though the metronome at the beginning sounds a bit late (about 6-8 ms), the ending is quite accurate. The song is probably not a plain BPM 188 and should be a bit slower. After some tests, BPM 187.985 and offset -122 sounded more accurate throughout the whole song.
  2. 00:50:617 (4) - Coming from a strong hyper, you shouldn't place this slider at the very border of the screen since there's a high risk of hitting the border and make the catcher loses stability. Consider moving it more to the right. 00:56:361 (2) - is also a similar case, with a 1/4 hyper instead.
  3. 00:51:893 (3,4) - The ending of those sliders shouldn't also be on the very edge of the screen either.


Since you accepted some of the mentioned issues by the previous modders, I assume you're also willing to improve your beatmap and now you have the opportunity to do so.

Good luck!
_handholding
Set will be back cooler than ever
Topic Starter
Ascendance

Kisses wrote:

Set will be back cooler than ever
Damn right
JBHyperion
What's cooler than being coolest?

How is it even possible to be cooler than something which has already reached the pinnacle of coolness?

Please stop breaking the fabric of our great language.
Nanachii
the very coolest
Benita
coolester
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