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Pretty much all about actual mapping garbage meta

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-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
Topic Starter
-Makishima S-

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

I was making a generalization, most of the time if the star rating is that far off from the real difficulty something is wrong with the map that makes it hard for people to read.

[Taiga] wrote:

For example - https://osu.ppy.sh/b/261524 - for 4,79* this map is impossible for most of players @ 50-60k rank (where most of them play this range). However this is one of better maps from his times with a lot of love from high ranked players afaik.
That map is fine but the other map you suggested is way off when it comes to star difficulty
Even better example:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/649319

4,3* gimmick map which is perfectly made, fun camellia map. 4,3* only because of spacing and mapping technique but it plays like map around 5,5*+. Map is very well made considering how difficult is song to map. I am perfectly fine with 4,3* on it tho. This map is not recommended for anyone who doesn't have very high skilled control over rhythm and reading.

Your argumentation comes from exacly - actual meta - all maps are the same on same star difficulty and whenever you guys see something gimmick - you call it bad / wrong / shit etc. because you cannot play it.

Star rating at this moment is perfectly fine for most maps recommended for players till 4-digit. At 4-digit rank you are pretty much able to play everything more or less within your skill level including some gimmick of lower star rating.
Fxjlk
1,195 posts
Joined July 2014
Fxjlk

[Taiga] wrote:

No, to actually make star rating perfect, it should consider all aspects of map which is - patterns, bpm at each part, amount of control required by human player, rhythm and many more. It's simply impossible to create this kind of algorithm within peppy strength. Actual one is fine imo.
I agree with this, the problem now I think is that a map is given an overall difficulty based on an average which is multiplied by a factor of combo and accuracy.

The problem with this is that when difficulty is compressed at the end and a player misses during that part they still have a high combo and accuracy and the compressed difficulty at the end bumps the pp awarded way too high.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
Topic Starter
-Makishima S-
I agree with this, the problem now I think is that a map is given an overall difficulty based on an average which is multiplied by a factor of combo and accuracy.

The problem with this is that when difficulty is compressed at the end and a player misses during that part they still have a high combo and accuracy and the compressed difficulty at the end bumps the pp awarded way too high.
No, star rating is considered mainly on overall spacing between circles, amount of streams (and their spacing too), circle size which increase / decrease spacing and BPM.
For example if i take FD4D and compress it into almost non spaced map, it will be still playable but it will have 5* instead of 7*. Still it will be same map.

As i said, there is no problem with star rating at all and afaik this is not main topic here.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

Don't forget you get 3-4 times more ranked beatmaps now, that means you get more generic songs with simple rhythms. Don't forget that high tier skill is grown drastically and now requests more challenging charts. Most simplest, and most correct way to make challenging charts for a simple rhythm songs is so-called pp mapping and there is nothing wrong with this. As advice I can suggest you to put your effort not into ranting about meta but to promote gimmicky mapped maps with complicated rhythms or any kind of unique stuff you like. You still will be quite surprised if you look closely, that this kind of stuff is not decreasing in quantity actually.
Fxjlk
1,195 posts
Joined July 2014
Fxjlk

[Taiga] wrote:

Even better example:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/649319

4,3* gimmick map which is perfectly made, fun camellia map. 4,3* only because of spacing and mapping technique but it plays like map around 5,5*+. Map is very well made considering how difficult is song to map. I am perfectly fine with 4,3* on it tho. This map is not recommended for anyone who doesn't have very high skilled control over rhythm and reading.

Your argumentation comes from exacly - actual meta - all maps are the same on same star difficulty and whenever you guys see something gimmick - you call it bad / wrong / shit etc. because you cannot play it.
I also like that map but again its completely different to your first example. I cant play big black and its quite similar to your first example with fast sliders so then why do I like it? Its because the map is intuitive to play which makes it enjoyable.

When you get fast sliders that come out of nowhere and go all over the screen its not fun at all
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
Topic Starter
-Makishima S-
When you get fast sliders that come out of nowhere and go all over the screen its not fun at all
As it was already said - fun depends on player.
I don't find big black fun at all since i cannot stand this trash music, it hurts my ears all over till they bleeds, seriously, yet i don't mind people playing it or having it ranked at all.
This is not a valid argument to deny this map from being ranked same as this is not argument against it star rating. This case was already explained.
Fxjlk
1,195 posts
Joined July 2014
Fxjlk

[Taiga] wrote:

No, star rating is considered mainly on overall spacing between circles, amount of streams (and their spacing too), circle size which increase / decrease spacing and BPM.
For example if i take FD4D and compress it into almost non spaced map, it will be still playable but it will have 5* instead of 7*. Still it will be same map.

As i said, there is no problem with star rating at all and afaik this is not main topic here.
Sorry I was talking about the calculation for pp not star rating.

[Taiga] wrote:

When you get fast sliders that come out of nowhere and go all over the screen its not fun at all
As it was already said - fun depends on player.
I don't find big black fun at all since i cannot stand this trash music, it hurts my ears all over till they bleeds, seriously, yet i don't mind people playing it or having it ranked at all.
This is not a valid argument to deny this map from being ranked same as this is not argument against it star rating. This case was already explained.
I agree star rating means nothing by itself but it can mean something if it is way out of normal boundaries in terms of actual difficulty
Yolshka
669 posts
Joined April 2014
Yolshka
Tbh people who complain about these maps are people who play these maps a bunch, since people who don't play them don't care about pp so there's really nothing to complain about.
Imo skystar ,priti, rlc, diffs are pretty much the same, they are difficult, but only compared to jumping, so they aren't actually that unique.
And all 6* songs would be over 200bpm anyway.
I think we can only talk about farming if you are in the top 50, since until then there really isn't anything forcing you to play these maps, and these maps are there if want to get competitive in terms of pp and ranks, if you are not in the top50 then you aren't really competitive.
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial

[Taiga] wrote:

As it was already said - fun depends on player.
I don't find big black fun at all since i cannot stand this trash music, it hurts my ears all over till they bleeds, seriously, yet i don't mind people playing it or having it ranked at all.
This is not a valid argument to deny this map from being ranked same as this is not argument against it star rating. This case was already explained.
It really work both ways, fun depends on player is exactly why those fast sliders in that map isn't ranked yet, imo it's a pattern that introduce inconsistent momentum change at varying time which require us to maintain constant cursor speed, it's really not a comfortable pattern to follow, at least compared to 1/4 stream jumps and anti jumps, which also introduce momentum change, but it's more constant, so it's more predictable and challenging thus making it fun. The song only introduced vocals with long holds that doesn't suggest irregular unpredictable momentum change, HW just thought of high SV, long slider art and say "this is my interpretation and it fits", no hate on HW doe, HW still make amazing maps.
Last edited by N0thingSpecial , edited 1 time in total.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Bara- wrote:

I hate those pp maps
There is a reason (other than being nice for newbies) that I only map lower diffs. The current pp-meta needs to stop
We need more 0108-Skystar-Fanzhen-HW maps. Sliders>circles

I'm honestly considering to stop iconing pp maps
I mean, being a BN it's kind of in your job description to vet out all the subjective shit that's been left out of the actual ranking criteria. When I was a guide moderator for solomid, once there was an acceptable guide or two approved for a champion the bar for any future guides was raised.

People only have so much time to read/play these things so there was no point in approving more of the same. Instead we would work with these more promising writers who merely reached the old bar to reach new levels of quality for the next guide for that champion.

I know the ranking process is a bit different but to me a lot of the BN are satisfied with letting things stagnate. This in turn discourages people from pushing forward better content because why bother if you can get your map ranked anyways?
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Good thing I left standard and don't have to deal with this shit anymoreee


I just have to learn to play Icyworld jumpstreams instead xddddd
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial

Khelly wrote:

Good thing I left standard and don't have to deal with this shit anymoreee


I just have to learn to play Icyworld jumpstreams instead xddddd
I envy you
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Learn to play 4k then we can have fun on a decade old meta
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial

Khelly wrote:

Learn to play 4k then we can have fun on a decade old meta
I'm sorry but I also like 7k
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Khelly wrote:

Learn to play 4k then we can have fun on a decade old meta
I'm sorry but I also like 7k

DOESNT MEAN YOU CANT PLAY 4K TOO
Luvdic
2,113 posts
Joined July 2009
Luvdic
What exactly is this pp meta mapping?
dung eater
2,392 posts
Joined December 2013
dung eater
You need to fix/blame the system that rates the maps if you feel it isn't accurate. It has it's faults and is ignorant to a lot of stuff that makes maps more difficult. The maps that are under/over rated are victims.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

Xanandra wrote:

What exactly is this pp meta mapping?
more boobs more pp
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Desperate-kun wrote:

EDIT: Oh and btw, I personally find those typical dubstep maps with a lot of stream gimmicks and fast sliders really repetetive too, at this point. To me, those are not much different from what you call 'pp-maps'. So as you can see, opinions may differ a lot here, so other players will find 'pp-maps' (I hate to use this word so much) really entertaining and fun, without looking for pp at all.
All them RLC clones running amok these days though. :^)

Don't even get me started on DnB (aka 5stream copy pasta).

I'm pretty sure if there was a rule for mapping style similar to the one for 2 mapsets with of the same song being qualified at the same time we'd see a lot more diversity tbh. Something like an initiative among BN's that they won't qualify more than X sets of similar style in a given week. If the supply of BN icons for such maps (be it RLC/DnB/PP) were to become heavily limited it would encourage the people who think they have a god given right to have all their maps ranked to explore style variations in an effort to not have to wait in a long queue to have their rankable maps ranked.

I really don't see the BN as being a cohesive enough group to enforce anything that's not a strict rule though so I doubt this would ever work out actually.
7ambda
2,560 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda

handsome wrote:

blame the system, not the people.
But if people are abusing the system, who's to blame?

Honestly, we really need ppv3.
StephOsu
1,216 posts
Joined February 2015
StephOsu
tbh I don't really mind a lot on most beatmaps since I play this game simply just for the songs "TV sizes can fuck themselves once full size comes out" - chainpullz 2016
IMO these maps still requires skills to play, it's just that when the same mapping style just comes out from most newer TV sizes simply because anime openings are mostly 160~190bpm xd, people get bored of the mapping style already because they got used to playing it.
Personally I myself don't find any major problem on those because they still test some of our skills like aim as oppose to other older/more gimmicky mapping which test our reading skills.
Aktsumi
71 posts
Joined March 2015
Aktsumi
Lol that guy is a pewdiepie want to be
7ambda
2,560 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda

Aktsumi wrote:

Lol that guy is a pewdiepie want to be
All opinion based, but he's funnier.
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