Arzest - Enemy

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Ashton

HighTec wrote:

CB imo ur mod is kinda against the themes the map is trying to use :/
also are u honestly trying to spice up unneeded drama, i mean like BN can do what ur doing rn (and yes its the BNs job not urs xd)
I love the whole idea and theme of the map, I understand the gimmick, but sometimes gimmicks can be bad ranking wise because it's not properly incorporated! that's what I was trying to explain in my mod, for example if he wanted a symettrical gimmick map then he could at least make the spacing and flow well also, but maybe focus most on that one certain thing.


Yes it is a bn job, but it's not okay for me to give opinions?



I'm not trying to stir up unneeded drama, I'll just stop posting here if you think it's come to that point
Stjpa
before u start insulting: this is not a biased bubble pop, a lot of people (and by that i mean A LOT) agree that this map is far away from being ready for the ranked section

[Gloom]
  1. 00:01:014 (1) - why not silencing the sliderend when it isnt on anything audible in the music
  2. 00:01:700 (3,4,5,1) - having multiple different cursor velocities in one direction plays really bad and i honestly dont see a reason to do that when u start a completely new pattern with different emphasis afterwards
  3. 00:02:043 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - the whole pattern looks aesthetically bad as every second circle (2,4,6 and 1,3,5) are really close to each other when u have so much more space to use. other than that the player gets the feeling that u are mapping to the weird noise in the background (mainly because of the triplet) so having a jump on 4 feels really counterintuitive as the sound fades there
  4. 00:02:900 (6,1) - what exactly happened to the emphasis? 00:01:357 (2,3) - here you had a fairly big jump for the exact same sounds
  5. 00:05:815 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - first of all i really doubt that both triplets need seperate NCs because the sounds they have are pretty much the same and NC barely gives any emphasis anyway. also the jump is way too huge and even linear, making the pattern uncomfortable as hell to play. symmetrical patterns are cool but only if used correctly, which isnt the case here in my opinion
  6. 00:06:500 - would actually be cool if u would put some effort here instead of just copy pasting a whole section
  7. 00:08:900 (4,5) - exactly mapped and emphasized the same as the ones from the previous section even though they arent the same music-wise?
  8. 00:11:300 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - i cant hear any 1/4s at all here and the sound they are mapped on dont really support a stream, let alone that its starting way too late because that sound is audible way earlier already. also worth to mention is that u might wanna give 00:11:643 (7) - some kind of emphasis because the noise is so loud that u shouldnt ignore it
  9. 00:11:986 - what bothers me about this whole section is that u are not doing anything beside copy paste ctrl j / h, which makes it super boring to play and even to look at and not emphasizing stuff properly as there are some different sounds on certain objects that deserve to get their own emphasis, especially since they are sounds u mapped objects to earlier. additionally the nc spam is not necessary as well, only emphasizing every third pattern looks fine and not so spammy like right now
  10. 00:16:615 (3,1) - why are u using an antijump that destroys the whole structure? i mean, u already used jumps 00:03:757 (1,1) - here that are basically the same sounds, actually even weaker to be exact
  11. 00:17:128 (2,3,1) - im aware that theres a sound on that blue and red tick but honestly they are so quiet that u could just use extended slider again because it feels wrong the way its mapped atm and the transition from 2 to 3 looks really bad
  12. 00:19:872 (2,3,1) - they are less strong than 00:18:500 (2,3,1) - but u decided to emphasis them the same?
  13. 00:20:557 (2,3,1) - and then u dont have anything on the slider here which has a loud noisy sound...and generally not emphasizing anything afterwards properly in comparison to before; 00:20:900 (1,2,3,1) - sound it getting linearly louder but u still keep the same spacing
  14. 00:21:929 (2,3,1) - and then all of a sudden u use jumps here when u used antijumps on strong sounds here 00:16:615 (3,1) -
  15. 00:28:100 (2,1,2) - almost looks like 1/4 patterns because they are so close to each other + u used 1/4 gaps to that in the beginning
  16. 00:28:443 (1) - following ur scheme this one shouldnt be nc'd so the patterns here 00:28:786 - have their own ncs like 00:22:957 (1) . yes both sections are not the same, but it definitely feels better to seperate 00:28:443 (1) - from 00:28:786 (3) -
  17. 00:33:243 (1,2,3) - this pattern can be really problematic to read if u dont change 00:28:100 (2,1,2) -
  18. 00:34:957 (5,6) - similar issue as in the beginning, this shouldnt be less spaced than 00:36:329 (4,5) - because the second pattern is actually weakerand u dont use any kind of increasing difficulty progression in ur structure to justify it
  19. 00:43:529 (1,2) - is also much less aggressive than 00:38:043 (1,2) - so theres no reason to emphasize both the same and especially this much
  20. 00:46:272 - it would be really cool if the spinner wouldnt be longer than 1 measure because there appears a new sound and having such a long spinner is so exhausting to play
  21. 00:57:929 (1,2) - either im deaf or theres not even anything different in the song to use a completely different pattern
  22. 01:02:043 (3,1) - overlap is actually visible ingame and u need to change this pattern as u never had overlaps before, thus not fitting to ur concept of th map
  23. 01:02:729 (1,2,3,4) - music-wise the pattern doesnt really make sense as the quiet noisy sounds are getting loider / noisier with every 1/1 but ur spacing just ruins it
  24. 01:04:786 (5,6,7,8) - the whole pattern itself would be fine as it is if the music wouldnt get more intense at this exact point, so increasing the spacing by the same amount as before is counterintuitive
  25. 01:05:472 (1) - what is this object snapped to? it looks like u u wanted to make it go over the whole screen but a 1/4 gap is too harsh for that so u chose the 1/8 tick before so its somewhat fine lol
  26. 01:06:843 (1,3) - 01:07:186 (2,4) - etc. its really noticable that the circle are really close
  27. 01:10:957 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - also ignored the music by just using a symmetrical pattern with the same spacing when the music has a higher pitch in the first one


and honestly im gonna stop at this point because im modding for almost 90 minutes now and im only at about 20% of the map, would take me forever to point out all issues

to summarize everything: u are ignoring the song and have wrong emphasis just for the sake of symmetry and also have a lot of patterns that look aesthetically bad because of the way u executed them

if u dont plan on remapping the whole map as u have these issues literally everywhere im going to veto the map as its not ready for ranking in the slightest imo
Xexxar
ya low key i agree :\ @stjpa
Seijiro
I was one of those not agreeing with this being ready btw, just to not make Stjpa's comment sound like a baseless comment
Nao Tomori
it seems like a pretty common sentiment, ofc. bad decision by me then.
Mir
I mean I kind of agree. Symmetry is a style that not many people can pull off properly (to make a map that is consistent and plays/flows decently). The aesthetics from what I've seen are lacking and I do agree that this map can be improved a lot.

Don't take this entire thing as a personal attack though, please. The BNs are just doing their jobs.
Plaudible
Voicing agreement here, while there's nothing wrong with symmetry as a mapping tool, overusing it can lead to losing other important things like aesthetics/emphasis which was my main problem last time I checked this.
Topic Starter
hi-mei
well, yea. i just like saten maps and wanted to do something in that style

but what makes me sad is that, all these people who complaining now, were ignoring me since i started asking for help/advices.


and eventually all of them are posting here their thought, while they could help me to avoid considered issues awhile ago, cuz i had serious mindset about mapping and wanted to spend a lots of time in it.

thankk Doyak and Nao Tomori for helping me thru the past months.

i guess, thats it, i cant really go against like 3-4 people which are personally against me, even tho i could argue with each of the mentioned issue.

ya shiirn was right telling me that i shouldnt act like an ass and offend people randomly just because i liked that xd.
but yea, stjpa, see u on ur next qualification, will be fun XD
Xexxar

-himei wrote:

i guess, thats it, i cant really go against like 3-4 people which are personally against me, even tho i could argue with each of the mentioned
Do you think every person who came to this thread to comment about the lack of quality in your map has a personal vendetta against you? Please stop acting like you have a victim complex and realize that your map has large room for improvement and is not appropriate for ranking as it is now.

-himei wrote:

ibut yea, stjpa, see u on ur next qualification, will be fun XD
wew

Xexxar wrote:

Doyak
Hope you don't get depressed, and reply to the mods properly.

Actually what I thought is that this map can't be improved much more by fixing one by one, because this map is basically already structured by the symmetries, and trying to fix them would rather be likely to ruin it.

On a side note, I think at least having a symmetry structure is better than putting notes in random places, even if the map could not follow every single sounds of the music properly.
-kevincela-

-himei wrote:

but yea, stjpa, see u on ur next qualification, will be fun XD
This is a terrible, terrible way to address a post containing some (apparently) valid critiques, and only encourages witchhunting (and probably pointless post-qualify "mods"). I know you may be annoyed by all of this, but you should try to take a step back and avoid replying like this, because if you continue in this way you'll be likely to receive even less help by now: no one would like to have an argument with a closed-minded person who acts like this.
Seijiro
just pointing out I'm not against you, but against how the map turned out to be.

You're taking this way too personally imo

Doyak wrote:

On a side note, I think at least having a symmetry structure is better than putting notes in random places, even if the map could not follow every single sounds of the music properly.
Excuse me? 02:01:700 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
Alright, I can understand that the final result is something like this but when I take the single objects combo by combo I can't see that giant "structure" at all. How am I supposed to remember all those beats?
Myxo
Cleaned up the spam and rude posts. Please behave yourself and contact me once everything calmed down.
OnosakiHito

-himei wrote:

CanadianBaka wrote:

ok might as well cast my opinions w


[Gloom]

in modern mapping it's not good to just copy paste ctrl + h everything, symmetry should be achieved by reoccurring patterns in the map, not bilateral symmetry. Although the aesthetics in this map are OK because of the fact you focus your map pretty much purely on symmetry it gets rid of a lot of other important concepts of it: Like flow, rhythm, and spacing.

00:01:700 (3) - why such a very noticeable and large spacing gap here? There's nothing to emphasize in the music
@ 00:01:700 (3,4,5,1,2,3) - its a copy of the same sounds. so no, thanks.
00:04:443 (3) - same problem, it occurs again because of your copy + paste technique, if you have one problem chances are it's going to occur again a few seconds later because of the lack of effort put into it
@ ^
00:05:815 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - woah! 6* and it's 5.7x spacing? You just jumped from 2.8x spacing to 5.7x spacing in a matter of seconds, also to top it off it's 1/4 seperated 1.1x apart, your making the player go right across the screen in a matter of seconds
@ ill reconsider this place on the last icon mod
00:22:957 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) - these are insane, they are going right across the screen with really low SV? It's quite literally the highest spaced notes you can do, and with such a low SV it makes no sense. I like the idea of it, but it needs a really big nerf
@ it is well made rounded and logical pattern. no, thanks.
00:31:186 (1) - vocals get no emphasize? 00:32:557 (1) - same here? Raise SV for them please
@ all for the structure. so... no, thanks.
00:33:243 (1,2,3) - this honestly looks like a 1/2 pattern, not 1/4
@ no, thanks.
00:35:300 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3) - again those weird across the whole entire screen dear lord jesus's sliders
@ no, thanks.
00:57:929 (1,2) - really? This spacing is super awkward, make them larger apart and ctrl + g 00:57:929 (1) - this slider
@ no, thanks.
the part whole kiai is a bunch of copy paste, barely any effort put into it all, you literally made one pattern and copy + pasted it through the hole thing changes slight things like spacing.

02:13:957 - missing an obvious beat here
@ @ ill reconsider this place on the last icon mod
i'll stop here buteven in maps that are specifically made to be symmetrical, they are well thought out and well made, well this one... I feel not so much.




such a lack of effort. sorry.


and here's CanadianBaka trying to pop a bubble, when will he grow up.
Most of the issues were discussed in Nao's irc mod.
thanks for mod! will reconsider some things on the qualification!
While my fellow partner mentioned already that we do not tollerate such behaviour in our community, I would also like to add that this set is not going anywhere as long as mod posts from people are continued to be responded in this way. You must answer to peoples mod properly by providing actual reasons as in why you deny a suggestion. "no, thanks." Is not a proper answer.
Myxo
Unlocked.
Topic Starter
hi-mei
So, I'll be explaining things step-by-step right now, because as some people told me that theres still a hope left.
And since Stjpa cant veto this map anymore, therefore Nao Tomori cant bubble it, i'll be looking for someone else to push this forward.

Right, so lets start with this firstly:

OnosakiHito wrote:

While my fellow partner mentioned already that we do not tollerate such behaviour in our community, I would also like to add that this set is not going anywhere as long as mod posts from people are continued to be responded in this way. You must answer to peoples mod properly by providing actual reasons as in why you deny a suggestion. "no, thanks." Is not a proper answer.
The mentioned issues were clearly explained in pervious mod, so as Monstrata did to me once, and got away with that, I did the same.

Stjpa wrote:

before u start insulting: this is not a biased bubble pop, a lot of people (and by that i mean A LOT) agree that this map is far away from being ready for the ranked section
> Not biased
I would believe to that affirmation if it would came from anyone but you.
> A LOT
Means, you, sergio and xexxar? Oh, what a concidence.
[Gloom]
  1. 00:01:014 (1) - why not silencing the sliderend when it isnt on anything audible in the music
    @ okay, fixed, and the following copied places too
  2. 00:01:700 (3,4,5,1) - having multiple different cursor velocities in one direction plays really bad and i honestly dont see a reason to do that when u start a completely new pattern with different emphasis afterwards
    @ okay, changed it to more restrained pattern
  3. 00:02:043 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - the whole pattern looks aesthetically bad as every second circle (2,4,6 and 1,3,5) are really close to each other when u have so much more space to use. other than that the player gets the feeling that u are mapping to the weird noise in the background (mainly because of the triplet) so having a jump on 4 feels really counterintuitive as the sound fades there
    @ okay, changed the whole pattern, and the rest of them too
  4. 00:02:900 (6,1) - what exactly happened to the emphasis? 00:01:357 (2,3) - here you had a fairly big jump for the exact same sounds
    @ okay, changed the whole pattern, and the rest of them too
  5. 00:05:815 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - first of all i really doubt that both triplets need seperate NCs because the sounds they have are pretty much the same and NC barely gives any emphasis anyway. also the jump is way too huge and even linear, making the pattern uncomfortable as hell to play. symmetrical patterns are cool but only if used correctly, which isnt the case here in my opinion
    @ okay, changed the whole pattern
  6. 00:06:500 - would actually be cool if u would put some effort here instead of just copy pasting a whole section
  7. 00:08:900 (4,5) - exactly mapped and emphasized the same as the ones from the previous section even though they arent the same music-wise?
    @ i think they are the same O_O
  8. 00:11:300 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - i cant hear any 1/4s at all here and the sound they are mapped on dont really support a stream, let alone that its starting way too late because that sound is audible way earlier already. also worth to mention is that u might wanna give 00:11:643 (7) - some kind of emphasis because the noise is so loud that u shouldnt ignore it
    @ its a slight overmap, its like, cant even be considered as overmap. but its good for structure and plays nicely
  9. 00:11:986 - what bothers me about this whole section is that u are not doing anything beside copy paste ctrl j / h, which makes it super boring to play and even to look at and not emphasizing stuff properly as there are some different sounds on certain objects that deserve to get their own emphasis, especially since they are sounds u mapped objects to earlier. additionally the nc spam is not necessary as well, only emphasizing every third pattern looks fine and not so spammy like right now
    @ i disagree, the entire pattern looks nice and plays fuzzy, its good for the beginning of the map and shouldnt be over contructured that much, because the melody is easy and repetitive, and also i dont see anything unrankable here, actually, no one does.
  10. 00:16:615 (3,1) - why are u using an antijump that destroys the whole structure? i mean, u already used jumps 00:03:757 (1,1) - here that are basically the same sounds, actually even weaker to be exact
    @ why? because the melody getting more intensive, the patterns and the DS as well. so aslo it complements the whole structure that will be used in next sections.
  11. 00:17:128 (2,3,1) - im aware that theres a sound on that blue and red tick but honestly they are so quiet that u could just use extended slider again because it feels wrong the way its mapped atm and the transition from 2 to 3 looks really bad
    @ So its a 17 secs into 5 min song in, I pretty much can ignore some mediocre stuff cuz its only the BEGINNING of the song, and its allowed and also complements the structure.
  12. 00:19:872 (2,3,1) - they are less strong than 00:18:500 (2,3,1) - but u decided to emphasis them the same?
    @ yes
  13. 00:20:557 (2,3,1) - and then u dont have anything on the slider here which has a loud noisy sound...and generally not emphasizing anything afterwards properly in comparison to before; 00:20:900 (1,2,3,1) - sound it getting linearly louder but u still keep the same spacing
    @ its another sound line which i didnt even try to emphasize
  14. 00:21:929 (2,3,1) - and then all of a sudden u use jumps here when u used antijumps on strong sounds here 00:16:615 (3,1) -
    @ suddenly? its related to the previous "copy" with different angle, and also, since its relatively slow part and also the beginning of the song, its allowed.
  15. 00:28:100 (2,1,2) - almost looks like 1/4 patterns because they are so close to each other + u used 1/4 gaps to that in the beginning
    @ so, whats wrong with it? its simply allowed in the beggining, and also its a part of the whole section structure.
  16. 00:28:443 (1) - following ur scheme this one shouldnt be nc'd so the patterns here 00:28:786 - have their own ncs like 00:22:957 (1) . yes both sections are not the same, but it definitely feels better to seperate 00:28:443 (1) - from 00:28:786 (3) -
    @ okay, fixed
  17. 00:33:243 (1,2,3) - this pattern can be really problematic to read if u dont change 00:28:100 (2,1,2) -
    @ theres nothing wrong with it cuz its a different melody phrase and also, after like 30 testplays no one ever failed at this place.
  18. 00:34:957 (5,6) - similar issue as in the beginning, this shouldnt be less spaced than 00:36:329 (4,5) - because the second pattern is actually weakerand u dont use any kind of increasing difficulty progression in ur structure to justify it
    @ what? its is calculated to be in the middle between 00:34:615 (4,6) - them, and also same thing for 00:35:986 (3,5) -
  19. 00:43:529 (1,2) - is also much less aggressive than 00:38:043 (1,2) - so theres no reason to emphasize both the same and especially this much
    @ i honestly believe that its ok as it is, flows good, complements the structure
  20. 00:46:272 - it would be really cool if the spinner wouldnt be longer than 1 measure because there appears a new sound and having such a long spinner is so exhausting to play
    @ i understand, but you are actually wrong, that new sounds appears 00:45:243 - , which cant be emphasized in my case.
  21. 00:57:929 (1,2) - either im deaf or theres not even anything different in the song to use a completely different pattern
    @ it can be like this, 00:57:929 - and 00:58:015 - both has the sounds under them, so i dont really want to put a double there, which can confuse people.
  22. 01:02:043 (3,1) - overlap is actually visible ingame and u need to change this pattern as u never had overlaps before, thus not fitting to ur concept of th map
    @ okay, fixed
  23. 01:02:729 (1,2,3,4) - music-wise the pattern doesnt really make sense as the quiet noisy sounds are getting loider / noisier with every 1/1 but ur spacing just ruins it
    @ this pattern doesnt emphasize the increasing yet, the sound line switch you can witness in the next pattern.
  24. 01:04:786 (5,6,7,8) - the whole pattern itself would be fine as it is if the music wouldnt get more intense at this exact point, so increasing the spacing by the same amount as before is counterintuitive
  25. 01:06:843 (1,3) - 01:07:186 (2,4) - etc. its really noticable that the circle are really close
    @ so is there any problem with that? its not an overlap, its basically like.. just nothing wrong with that. you are not telling me whats wrong so i wont change it.
  26. 01:10:957 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - also ignored the music by just using a symmetrical pattern with the same spacing when the music has a higher pitch in the first one
    @ its not ignored, 01:10:957 (1,2) - has bigger distance than 01:11:129 (2,3) -


and honestly im gonna stop at this point because im modding for almost 90 minutes now and im only at about 20% of the map, would take me forever to point out all issues
@ well, if you would really want to clean this map, you could do that 6 months ago, or just pm me in any time u wanted to. but you are not doing that even now.

to summarize everything: u are ignoring the song and have wrong emphasis just for the sake of symmetry and also have a lot of patterns that look aesthetically bad because of the way u executed them
@ well yes, some parts arent emphasized that well, but my initial goal was to make a clean map. so theres nothing with my approach to focus more on the structure rather than the emphasis. this map is different.

if u dont plan on remapping the whole map as u have these issues literally everywhere im going to veto the map as its not ready for ranking in the slightest imo
@ well, you cant veto this map anymore unless i ask Nao Tomori to bubble it again, what im not planning to do.
Thanks for modding, applied some things.
Stjpa
i can veto it anyway, even if u dont ask nao to rebubble
Topic Starter
hi-mei

MrSergio wrote:

just pointing out I'm not against you, but against how the map turned out to be.

You're taking this way too personally imo

Doyak wrote:

On a side note, I think at least having a symmetry structure is better than putting notes in random places, even if the map could not follow every single sounds of the music properly.
Excuse me? 02:01:700 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
Alright, I can understand that the final result is something like this but when I take the single objects combo by combo I can't see that giant "structure" at all. How am I supposed to remember all those beats?
Ok so, that part is the main "theme" of this soundtrack, which emphasizes the fight with the beast, which explaains why is that part felt that random, but the fights are always random, right? so yea, basically i tried to mix the structure and randomness there.
Topic Starter
hi-mei

-kevincela- wrote:

-himei wrote:

but yea, stjpa, see u on ur next qualification, will be fun XD
This is a terrible, terrible way to address a post containing some (apparently) valid critiques, and only encourages witchhunting (and probably pointless post-qualify "mods"). I know you may be annoyed by all of this, but you should try to take a step back and avoid replying like this, because if you continue in this way you'll be likely to receive even less help by now: no one would like to have an argument with a closed-minded person who acts like this.
well, its a reaction to his actions from the past. all this situation is expected by me and i knew what will happen when i got 2nd bubble.
Natsu
you can veto only one bubble.

@-Himei there are multiple ways to keep the symmetry and fit the song properly as I explained you before :l, I can do a rhythm mod if you want, but only if you are willing to apply stuff.

Send me a forum pm if you are interested!
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