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Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa) - Responsibility Respons

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Total Posts
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Len
2,812 posts
Joined June 2012
Len
so many gds ez mapping
pls do map ez only not ez ins and find gders for next mapset w
anyway gratz
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,225 posts
Joined July 2013
Ascendance
Miniature Another is higher SR than the Another, not sure if it should be addressed but lolz
Battle
2,862 posts
Joined February 2014
Battle
That's unfortunate
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,218 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak
Logic Agent
483 posts
Joined April 2015
Logic Agent
But it is objectively wrong... the term miniature means "of a much smaller size than normal; very small." In a mapping context, this word should be used synonymous to "light." You don't go Hard > Insane > Light Insane do you?
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,218 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak
miniature means that the diff uses low CS and as I posted above, if you don't understand it, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. It's also fully rankable, so bye, I don't want to discus about actually right thing.
Logic Agent
483 posts
Joined April 2015
Logic Agent
Oh, my mistake. Maybe consider renaming TheMefisto's Extra to "TheMefisto's almost Miniature Extra," since it's cs4.3?
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,218 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak

Logic Agent wrote:

Oh, my mistake. Maybe consider renaming TheMefisto's Extra to "TheMefisto's almost Miniature Extra," since it's cs4.3?
no
Logic Agent
483 posts
Joined April 2015
Logic Agent
Unlucky. Congrats on qualify anyways
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,218 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak
ty
bye
Sotarks
3,493 posts
Joined May 2014
Sotarks
forced
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,568 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi

Shmiklak wrote:

miniature means that the diff uses low CS and as I posted above, if you don't understand it, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. It's also fully rankable, so bye, I don't want to discus about actually right thing.
So Deppy's Another should be Deppy's Giant Another since it's CS2.8. Having some consistency on your diffname would be better.

Also
A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set. The mapset's hardest difficulty may use an appropriate custom difficulty name, unrelated to a username. Mapsets may also use a complete set of custom difficulty names that clearly indicate their level of difficulty to the player. Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming.
It's not a full custom difficulty names, and using a extention to indicate the CS is clearly not useful in any case and not okay since it's not the highest diff here.

Also consider about being less rude when you answer to people, even if they could be wrong.
FCL
1,478 posts
Joined July 2014
FCL
so why we may see some diff names like "Tragic Love Extra" even if it isn't a highest diff then? These words have even no sense. Howewer when some unpopular mapper like me adds "miniature" in the diffname (it has sense and i said why before), people should say something about that?

I thought we concluded earlier, after 1st disqualification, but nah..)
Last edited by FCL , edited 1 time in total.
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,218 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak
Hi
Deppyforce
1,961 posts
Joined November 2014
Deppyforce

FCL wrote:

so why we may see some diff names like "Tragic Love Extra" even if it isn't a highest diff then? These words have even no sense. Howewer when some unpopular mapper like me adds "miniature" in the diffname (it has sense and i said why before), people should say something about that?

I thought we concluded earlier, after 1st disqualification, but nah..)
yea dud same even with my old diffname
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,225 posts
Joined July 2013
Ascendance

FCL wrote:

so why we may see some diff names like "Tragic Love Extra" even if it isn't a highest diff then? These words have even no sense. Howewer when some unpopular mapper like me adds "miniature" in the diffname (it has sense and i said why before), people should say something about that?

I thought we concluded earlier, after 1st disqualification, but nah..)
Tragic Love Extra doesn't misrepresent the difficulty the way that Miniature Another does. They're completely different cases, so I'm not sure how you can even defend your point that way lol.. It's nothing to do with popularity, it's the fact that it is not labeled properly.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

FCL wrote:

so why we may see some diff names like "Tragic Love Extra" even if it isn't a highest diff then? These words have even no sense. Howewer when some unpopular mapper like me adds "miniature" in the diffname (it has sense and i said why before), people should say something about that?

I thought we concluded earlier, after 1st disqualification, but nah..)
Well.. other ranked sets cannot be used as justify but I tend to agree that in current case it's not really huge alteration and still current difficulty's name indicate its level of difficulty, minor addition about difficulty specific wont hurt in such huge set.
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,218 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak
I'm sorry for my behaviour, I'm just tired. Let's wait to QATs' decree.
Deppyforce
1,961 posts
Joined November 2014
Deppyforce
its fine so why not just keep it
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,060 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
So, basically you insisnt on keeping a difficulty name that is clearly causing a good deal of confusion even among mappers despite being offered to change it multiple times and referring to other ranked sets as the only valid point?

Can we get a clear response that'd satisfy both the people questioning it and those who were okay with the difficulty names? Referring to some other sets won't get you far.
FCL
1,478 posts
Joined July 2014
FCL

Bakari wrote:

So, basically you insisnt on keeping a difficulty name that is clearly causing a good deal of confusion even among mappers despite being offered to change it multiple times and referring to other ranked sets as the only valid point?

Can we get a clear response that'd satisfy both the people questioning it and those who were okay with the difficulty names? Referring to some other sets won't get you far.
Okay, for the last time.
Miniature Another is a good diffname. Seriously. It clearly shows the level of the difficulty, even though some people cant agree with it.
First of all, its called Miniature due to circle size - its pretty small in comparsion with the other diffs. By the way, this cs is the smallest in the mapset. In comparsion with the another Another, Deppy's one, my diff looks really "miniature", so people, who are able to turn on their brains in the circle-clicking game will easily recognize the thing of the difficulty naming and the difficulty itself.
The second thing is that there is already a bunch of people, who agree with this naming. By people i mean all modders, who were involved in modding this map and also two nominators, who gave this set their nominations so it could be pushed forward.
I understand the point that this naming isnt appropriate for somebody. But since it makes sense and there are already some people, who are okay with it, why we are not able to push it forward as it is?
Doormat
2,049 posts
Joined September 2013
Doormat

FCL wrote:

Bakari wrote:

So, basically you insisnt on keeping a difficulty name that is clearly causing a good deal of confusion even among mappers despite being offered to change it multiple times and referring to other ranked sets as the only valid point?

Can we get a clear response that'd satisfy both the people questioning it and those who were okay with the difficulty names? Referring to some other sets won't get you far.
Okay, for the last time.
Miniature Another is a good diffname. Seriously. It clearly shows the level of the difficulty, even though some people cant agree with it.
First of all, its called Miniature due to circle size - its pretty small in comparsion with the other diffs. By the way, this cs is the smallest in the mapset. In comparsion with the another Another, Deppy's one, my diff looks really "miniature", so people, who are able to turn on their brains in the circle-clicking game will easily recognize the thing of the difficulty naming and the difficulty itself.
The second thing is that there is already a bunch of people, who agree with this naming. By people i mean all modders, who were involved in modding this map and also two nominators, who gave this set their nominations so it could be pushed forward.
I understand the point that this naming isnt appropriate for somebody. But since it makes sense and there are already some people, who are okay with it, why we are not able to push it forward as it is?
you know, insulting people's intelligence because they can't agree with your logic is probably not the best way of proving your point. personally i also think "Miniature Another" is misleading because when i see the diff name at first glance before i even play the map i think "oh so this is probably like a slightly easier Another diff", and then it isn't. however, you're right in that "Miniature" does reflect your diff to some extent. maybe shmiklak can put the reasoning for the diff name in the map description? seems like the best compromise to me
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,218 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak
Let me add info about every diff to description. It will be better, won't it? I guess when it will be added this discusion may be closed, right? I guess it's really best compromise way for us. Thank you loli Doormat for suggesting it.
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,060 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
First of all, there is a clear indication of the circle size used and all you have to do is to look at the upper-left corner of the song-select menu, there is no actual need to keep the difficulty name the way it is now. Secondly, the word miniature along with the comments in the description make the whole structure of the set excessively wordy, if something needs to be explained this way, chances, are, we don't need it on the first place. Besides, frankly speaking, people rarely read the description and often use osu!direct, which gives no opportunity to read the description at all.

In comparsion with the another Another, Deppy's one,
You're setting conetext here, those, who see the set for the first time have no context. They don't know how large/tiny/difficult the other difficulties are. If you are going for comparison here, you'd probably have to convince Deppy to use something like "Massive" or "Large" to go with their difficulty name.

Hope this explains my concerns better.

Alrighty, let's just take a few minutes to stop and think aboit this more. Here're a few changes that I believe to be quite important that I want you to consider before it goes ranked.

[General]
  1. Timing points contradicting each other: 00:00:193 at this point in just about every difficulty exculidng E/N ones and TheMefisto's Extra.
  2. Quality of the background image seems to be pretty low. Besides, it does not quite match with the mood of the song. You could have found something of better quality, I believe.
[Easy]
  1. 00:28:707 (1) - minor - keeping this ojne straight would give a softer transition between objects. example

    I have a certain concern about Slider Velocity multiplier being set to x1.3 as this feels a bit too intense fo the easiest difficulty. Provided that there is a good deal of difficulties where using SV changes would be much more appropriate I would recommend to done down the velocity to x1.2 or even stick to regular x1.0 throughout the whole difficulty.
[Fanteer's Normal]
  1. 00:14:450 (1,2) - I would like to recieve an explanation on why the flow here goes in such a way. It could have been something more simplistic and players friendly, something more circluar, I'd say. example. Yet, you stick to this very unusual style 00:29:895 (2,3) - even later on. The question I ask you is why the flow goes rather tricky in the intro while the rest of the difficulty is fairly simplistic.
  2. 00:54:846 (1,2) - I would highly insist on (1) being a repeat slider. As to emphasise the drums starting with (3) and reduce the difficulty level. After all, hitting 5 notes after a 3/2 gap can get challenging.
    Note: 01:11:480 (1,2) - same here.
[Yaleufeu's Normal]
  1. 00:37:915 (3) - feels a bit untidy as the circle touches the default skin's HP-Bar. Probably should be placed lower.
  2. 00:48:905 (4,5) - try swapping these two on the timeline by selcting them and hitting Ctrl+G, this should match the vocals and drum lines better.

    Overall, I would suggest using higher DS, sometihng of x1,2 or even x1.3 as to make 1/2 and 1/1 spacing contrast even more and increasse readability of the difficulty. To my very subjective taste it felt clustered.
[Wajuklak's Advanced]

  • To my subjective taste overlaps like 00:21:282 (6,2) - while not being exactly noticeable leave a rather unpleasant impression of lustered patterning. Why not spread things apart? example. Another example of the same overlappy thing would be 00:33:163 (6,1) - this pattern.
    Something similar would apply to 00:28:707 (1,2) - where the curve gets somewhat covered and feels a bit too difficult to read for a Normal+ difficulty.
  1. 00:51:282 (3,4,5) - the strong beats which are hitsounded with finishes and are supported by other instruments for some reason I fail to understand left unclickable. What makes this even weirder is the very similar rhythm mapped in a completely different 01:00:787 (4,5,6) - way a few seconds later. I guess this happened due to the lack of communication between collab mappers. Try to stick to some rhythm and follow it in both parts, so that this difficulty feels more consistent?

    Overall structure feels a bit unpolished, but this is probably just me beingpicky. The main concerns I have are stated above.
[Insane]
  1. 00:25:143 (1) - I'd say a Ctrl+G on this slider would give a better flow. Let me explain: (1) and (2) are very similar, hence similar flow moves should work, and (2) has a clap sound, hence it could use a jump. So, here's the suggested pattern example
[vanucik's Insane]
  1. 00:56:034 (1,2,3,4) - 01:12:668 (1,2,3,4) - could you, please, clarify your logic behind the rhythm picked for these two parts? They sound almost identical, yet one uses 1/4 sliders, the other one goes with 1/2 ones.
  2. 01:18:608 (1,2) - could also use larger spacing as to accentuate the drums appearing on (2) and introduce the 1/1 jumps better
[Deppy's Another]
  1. 00:08:806 (3,4) - there is no clear indicaton of the flow direction change and players would naturally proceed and hit (5) instead of (4). A new combo would be a clear and very readable sign to warn about the pattern change.
  2. 01:09:994 (3) - just a matter of preference, but I would much rather have it stacked wiith (1) as to give some extra action to emphasise the clap sound (3) has.
[FCL's Another]
  1. 00:25:886 (5,6) - the clap sound here is stressed with a jump, yet, identical sounds at 00:24:846 (4) - 00:22:321 (3,4) - are ignored. Probably you could fix this inconsistency by adding some extra spacing to the circles. As the jumpy patterns on this clap thing continue throughout the map.
  2. 01:08:707 (1,1) - the new combos here feel excessive. A single NC combined with the low DS would make the 1/3 snap readable. Adding more NCs feels excessive.
[Slayed's Extra]
  1. 01:14:747 - feels pretty unnatural to have the clap here covered with an unclickable beat. Especially after taking into consideration the density of the objects and spacing you use in this part.
[LP's Extra]
  1. 00:45:638 (1,1,1) - excissive usage of new cmbos that brings extra HP and sort of breaks the intended gameplay experience. Just a single new combo on 00:45:341 (1) - and probably the final one 00:46:232 (1) - here would be enough.
    Note: 01:12:965 (1,1,1) - 01:18:757 (1,1,1) - same applies here, I believe
  2. 01:08:509 (3) - yet, here, for example, a new combo would do great as to warn about the 1/3 snaps being used. Keep in mind that there are no other visible indications of it.
  3. 01:16:084 (3,1) - feels like this part lacks a jump as to accentuate the drums.

    Wow, you never fail to impres me. I really enjoyed this difficulty.
That wraps it up on my end, I'd really love to see some of these things being replied to. After all, I am a part of this set as well and I want it to be as neat and accurate as possible.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
It seems like there are some things worth discussing, so I'm taking this down.
I disagree with the diffname being an issue, though. It's a weird decision to use it (because the diff's circle cize isn't really anything special) but I am fine with it as long as the difficulty level is properly indicated.
Deppyforce
1,961 posts
Joined November 2014
Deppyforce
edit: w i gues il go with massive another

Bakari wrote:

[Deppy's Another]
  1. 00:08:806 (3,4) - there is no clear indicaton of the flow direction change and players would naturally proceed and hit (5) instead of (4). A new combo would be a clear and very readable sign to warn about the pattern change. ok fine fixed
  2. 01:09:994 (3) - just a matter of preference, but I would much rather have it stacked wiith (1) as to give some extra action to emphasise the clap sound (3) has. focusing on instruments so this kinda works better in my perspective
thanks
osu file format v14

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AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 46603
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.7
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LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

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DistanceSpacing: 1.4
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[Metadata]
Title:Responsibility Response
TitleUnicode:Responsibility Response
Artist:Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa)
ArtistUnicode:赤沢泉美(CV.米澤 円)
Creator:Shmiklak
Version:Deppy's Massive Another
Source:Another
Tags:slayed fcl wajinshu -bakari- deppyforce salsa vanucik5656 themefisto fanteer yaleufeu lama_poluna lama poluna tropical collab collaboration
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Last edited by Deppyforce , edited 1 time in total.
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,060 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
Wouldn't really call it gigantic, but if that's what you really want, sure, that'd sort of resolve the controversery.

edit: we'd still have to ask FCL to make sure they're okay with it.
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,568 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi
Sounds stupid to add something just to resolve a nonsense diffname. I would just remove "miniature", having it just for indicating CS is not a valid reason.
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,218 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak
It's your own opinion. We as mappers want to keep it because it shows diff's level
Deppyforce
1,961 posts
Joined November 2014
Deppyforce
it is also not a valid unrankable issue
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,060 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
Just because something does something, it doesn't mean that it should be in the set. Otherwise we might end up with difficulty names like bakari's rather average in size, pretty fast paced and relatively accuracy heavy hard with intense HP Drain which still indicates the difficulty yet does not make any sense whatsoever.

edit: well, at least the relativity is now here. the diffnames should make more sense now
Fanteer
483 posts
Joined February 2016
Fanteer
[Fanteer's Normal]
  1. 00:14:450 (1,2) - I would like to recieve an explanation on why the flow here goes in such a way. It could have been something more simplistic and players friendly, something more circluar, I'd say. example. Yet, you stick to this very unusual style 00:29:895 (2,3) - even later on. The question I ask you is why the flow goes rather tricky in the intro while the rest of the difficulty is fairly simplistic.
  2. 00:54:846 (1,2) - I would highly insist on (1) being a repeat slider. As to emphasise the drums starting with (3) and reduce the difficulty level. After all, hitting 5 notes after a 3/2 gap can get challenging.
    Note: 01:11:480 (1,2) - same here.
fix
update
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vanucik
484 posts
Joined December 2014
vanucik
1. спейсинг увеличил 2. насчет слайдеров 1\4 в киае, звук там намного отличается от тех, что ты мне сказал, здесь они затухают(ну типо они пиздец разные, их надо как-то выделить), 1\4 лучше под музыку подходит (1\2 уже пробовал ставить, не очень хорошо заходит)

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FCL
1,478 posts
Joined July 2014
FCL
I don't care anymore
Seaweed
359 posts
Joined November 2014
Seaweed
here we go again.. So much drama for a diffname (which tbh is completely fine as desperate kun said) pls dont involve me in this drama
Kyuukai
1,511 posts
Joined December 2014
Kyuukai

Bakari wrote:

[Yaleufeu's Normal]
  1. 00:37:915 (3) - feels a bit untidy as the circle touches the default skin's HP-Bar. Probably should be placed lower.
  2. 00:48:905 (4,5) - try swapping these two on the timeline by selcting them and hitting Ctrl+G, this should match the vocals and drum lines better.
    fixed all
    Overall, I would suggest using higher DS, sometihng of x1,2 or even x1.3 as to make 1/2 and 1/1 spacing contrast even more and increasse readability of the difficulty. To my very subjective taste it felt clustered. The reading difficulty is intentionnal.
AZERTYUIOP
osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 46603
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 193,14450,33460,57222,69103,79796
DistanceSpacing: 1
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 4
TimelineZoom: 2.3

[Metadata]
Title:Responsibility Response
TitleUnicode:Responsibility Response
Artist:Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa)
ArtistUnicode:赤沢泉美(CV.米澤 円)
Creator:Shmiklak
Version:Yaleufeu's Normal
Source:Another
Tags:slayed fcl wajinshu -bakari- deppyforce salsa vanucik5656 themefisto fanteer yaleufeu lama_poluna lama poluna tropical collab collaboration
BeatmapID:1077992
BeatmapSetID:495332

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:3
CircleSize:3
OverallDifficulty:3
ApproachRate:4
SliderMultiplier:0.8
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
0,0,"shmiklakgey.jpg",0,0
//Break Periods
//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 (Pass)
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples

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riffy
osu! Alumni
8,060 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
The reading difficulty is intentionnal.
Could you, please, elaborate? I have not encountered a single Normal level difficulty where reading would be a part of the challenge along with the patterning. I fail to understand this. Wouldn't forcing reading difficulty as a part of the challenge make E/N gap feel too big?
Kyuukai
1,511 posts
Joined December 2014
Kyuukai

Bakari wrote:

The reading difficulty is intentionnal.
Could you, please, elaborate? I have not encountered a single Normal level difficulty where reading would be a part of the challenge along with the patterning. I fail to understand this. Wouldn't forcing reading difficulty as a part of the challenge make E/N gap feel too big?
Well, I like playing with the reading of ppl, and the diff looks good that way, dunno why I would remap it with a higher DS.
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,060 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
Alrighty, as long as you're okay with the forced reading challenge in the Normal difficulty I have nothing else to add here. Good thing we've resolved it now.
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,218 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak

Bakari wrote:

[General]
  1. Timing points contradicting each other: 00:00:193 at this point in just about every difficulty exculidng E/N ones and TheMefisto's Extra.
  2. Quality of the background image seems to be pretty low. Besides, it does not quite match with the mood of the song. You could have found something of better quality, I believe. current one is fine :V it fits music as I told you before on vk
[Easy]
  1. 00:28:707 (1) - minor - keeping this ojne straight would give a softer transition between objects. example

    I have a certain concern about Slider Velocity multiplier being set to x1.3 as this feels a bit too intense fo the easiest difficulty. Provided that there is a good deal of difficulties where using SV changes would be much more appropriate I would recommend to done down the velocity to x1.2 or even stick to regular x1.0 throughout the whole difficulty. Didn't change it. It seems fine for me and for others, it plays fine by players.

[Wajuklak's Advanced]

  • To my subjective taste overlaps like 00:21:282 (6,2) - while not being exactly noticeable leave a rather unpleasant impression of lustered patterning. Why not spread things apart? example. Another example of the same overlappy thing would be 00:33:163 (6,1) - this pattern.
    Something similar would apply to 00:28:707 (1,2) - where the curve gets somewhat covered and feels a bit too difficult to read for a Normal+ difficulty.
  1. 00:51:282 (3,4,5) - the strong beats which are hitsounded with finishes and are supported by other instruments for some reason I fail to understand left unclickable. What makes this even weirder is the very similar rhythm mapped in a completely different 01:00:787 (4,5,6) - way a few seconds later. I guess this happened due to the lack of communication between collab mappers. Try to stick to some rhythm and follow it in both parts, so that this difficulty feels more consistent?

    Overall structure feels a bit unpolished, but this is probably just me beingpicky. The main concerns I have are stated above.
[Insane]
  1. 00:25:143 (1) - I'd say a Ctrl+G on this slider would give a better flow. Let me explain: (1) and (2) are very similar, hence similar flow moves should work, and (2) has a clap sound, hence it could use a jump. So, here's the suggested pattern example
[FCL's Another]
  1. 00:25:886 (5,6) - the clap sound here is stressed with a jump, yet, identical sounds at 00:24:846 (4) - 00:22:321 (3,4) - are ignored. Probably you could fix this inconsistency by adding some extra spacing to the circles. As the jumpy patterns on this clap thing continue throughout the map.
  2. 01:08:707 (1,1) - the new combos here feel excessive. A single NC combined with the low DS would make the 1/3 snap readable. Adding more NCs feels excessive.
fixed everything for fcl
[Slayed's Extra]
  1. 01:14:747 - feels pretty unnatural to have the clap here covered with an unclickable beat. Especially after taking into consideration the density of the objects and spacing you use in this part.
and slayed

That wraps it up on my end, I'd really love to see some of these things being replied to. After all, I am a part of this set as well and I want it to be as neat and accurate as possible.
ty
EDIT: fixed all for lp
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