Definitely yes, I'm highly certain it does have relations other than anime. As long as it befits the song title (and maybe some of the lyrics) pretty fine.

Was wondering if there was a live-adaptation or something lol. Cuz the guy looks like Sakamoto lol.

Guess the similarity is a relation. Even the BG usage is something like using a random anime guy on a Super Junior song, as long as the random male idol looks similar with the main character of the anime, I feel this could be acceptable,, (Though I wouldn't personally prefer seeing this kind of settings x,x)

Cerulean Veyron wrote:

F D Flourite wrote:

Hi, mod from queue.

1. Briefly explain who is it on the background picture. Because he had better have connections with this anime or the song~ (Or just someone who is cool?)
   The person on the background picture is, for sure, Kyuhyun. With the modernized depiction and sketched up suit, that would probably have some sufficient connection to the SONG. As how it represents the "coolest"tic atmosphere of the gameplay while listening up to the music, it should at least be pertinent as a background along with the song.
   
   Even someone before told me the eyeglasses of this person on the background represent the anime just by a little, but a lot more with the song. Which looks pretty objective, and worthwhile since osu! is a rhythm game where players also enjoy their favorite musics. So as in, the anime series that has this song as an opening is probably tagged too in case there are more sources for players to search for this beatmap.
   
   At this point, I do sure want to make a little change other than becoming a pp weeb tv size mapper, it's pretty ridiculous and most likely repetitive though. For that, there should be common sense too, it's just not because "someone who is cool" enough to input as background. As long as it displays relevancy to the song title, music, and so on. If you still need further detailed explanation about it, just say the word~

I have asked the creator about this question and here's his previous answer.

From my side, this guy is more or less cool. And he looks a little bit like Sakamoto, even tho the creator didn't seem to agree LOL.

Cerulean Veyron wrote:

Does it always need to be anime just because "it came" from that or so?

In my opinion, yes!, when not? as long as you map the full / long version, if you are taking the mp3 from the anime ver, putting a BG related to the anime is the most logical reason, at least for me.

If you don't like anime, choose another song... /me runs... I'm joking ok xD

anyways cool map <3 Good Luck on ranking >.<

BG suffices imo. Asian music, asian guy in the background. Cool guy with hipster glasses and in a cool urban area. Coolest.

Dunno why such a hassle, this got through aswell!

-Sh1n1- wrote:

most logical reason

I agree, but plenty of maps have BGs that are still related, give off the desired atmosphere but are not the most logical decision for a bg. And it doesn't have to be according to the Ranking Criteria, as long as it isn't completely unrelated. Having every map have standard BGs to which the stong strictly correlates would be kinda dull too.

yea bg is cool haters back off!!!!!1

Its quite subjective issue lol

I agree with Sh1n1's point, anime ver should have anime related bg. But ...yeah that kyuhyun looks like sakamoto so can be allowed i think?

Cerulean u really love asian boys lol

Wanting an anime background just for your personal taste? lol. Please, lol. If the mapper ever maps the full ver of this song, He'd still use Kyuhyun backgrounds as long as it has some relations lol. In fact, players aren't witless lol. They have their ways of dimming the background lol, or replacing it in the beatmap folder for their own lol. Since the mapper of this map has the freedom to put anything he's satisfied with, there shouldn't be any problem putting "Cho Kyuhyun being the coolest guy" or so lol. He just doesn't want to be your next weeb 8) lol.

Mapper wrote:

yea bg is cool haters back off!!!!!1

This ^ explains it all lol

lol

It's so nice to see a map from an anime opening without an anime pic !

GG Cerulean! :3

hello there! i have some concerns about the top difficulty of this map, which i haven't been able to address in a forum post until now. i believe these issues detract from the quality of the map far too much to be overlooked.

[cool!]
00:35:628 (1) - i think that the massive spacing increase on this slider is disproportionate to the song itself, i recommend either nerfing this jump or increasing 00:35:308 (5,6) - spacing to make it less of a contrast.

00:47:675 - don't understand why we have a break here during a build up section, and then during the other half of the build up section we get a spinner which completely destroys any form of flow, cursor movement, rhythm intensity or general involvement in the song as a whole. i highly suggest you add in actual notes on the very prominent, loud, and blatantly important drums here in order to demonstrate the increasing intensity of the song.

01:13:606 (7) - relatively minor, i believe the direction change on this stream should be on 7 since that's where the vocals change.


all of those issues are not really why i popped though, because the main reasons are these:
00:00:840 -
01:08:500 -
01:20:947 -
01:21:266 -

basically, a bunch of jump streams. i am of the strong belief that these jump streams are very unjustified and out of place in the map. if you listen to the song, there is nothing on the small white ticks indicating such an abrupt movement.

00:00:761 (4,5,6) - this jump creates a sharp direction change, which is awkward enough, but since there's absolutely nothing changing in the drum riff the player has no indication that the jump is even going to occur.

01:08:420 (6,7) - this one is even worse since it's a jump back and forth that's also mapped to some really quiet drums and has a jump based on the vocals which it isn't really following at all.

01:20:867 (10,1,2) - this one has a similar issue though it doesn't have a backward awkward angle at least

01:21:186 (4,1,2) - this one on the other hand is really bad since the jump and spacing increase is mapped to the vocals stopping. the song intensity is decreasing and there's a really high pressure movement. that doesn't make any sense to me.


the fact that these jump streams are used is a problem in of itself to me, but the fact that they're only used in the very intro and the very end is also an issue. it's entirely possible to build the map around overmapped 1/4 jumpstreams, but you don't use them consistently at all so it just makes them really sudden, even more unfitting than normal, and generally low quality to me.

please let me know what you think now that my personal problem has been expressed

Nao Tomori wrote:

hello there! i have some concerns about the top difficulty of this map, which i haven't been able to address in a forum post until now. i believe these issues detract from the quality of the map far too much to be overlooked.

[cool!]
00:35:628 (1) - i think that the massive spacing increase on this slider is disproportionate to the song itself, i recommend either nerfing this jump or increasing 00:35:308 (5,6) - spacing to make it less of a contrast. Reduced the distance spacing just a few bit instead. An intense beat here like this is also worth even a small jump to stress the downbeat. As long as the density is in equal to both music and the notes' itself.

00:47:675 - don't understand why we have a break here during a build up section, and then during the other half of the build up section we get a spinner which completely destroys any form of flow, cursor movement, rhythm intensity or general involvement in the song as a whole. i highly suggest you add in actual notes on the very prominent, loud, and blatantly important drums here in order to demonstrate the increasing intensity of the song. I wouldn't map the break time part because of density or difficulty-spiking reasons that would do something look seriously bewildered, or... some "abominable" complexity objects, or anything that's similar. Especially on harder diffs where there are some jumps, or what-so, that should probably sustain just quite a small time. I probably dislike that, so implementing a break time on this just a whole one single track would be best for some kind of preparation to the chorus. Which also brings me something else in other subjectivity, I've redone mapping this so-called "build up" section where the spinner was you've mentioned after that break time. Since it sounds like it has more intensity than the previous song tracks, I gave those notes an expanding distance spacing as well to highlight the drums, maybe the snares too.

01:13:606 (7) - relatively minor, i believe the direction change on this stream should be on 7 since that's where the vocals change. By the sound of the vocals, it barely "changes" until the next downbeat, though from what I hear. So rather than hearing the vocals and following it in every part over other greater instruments seem a bit deteriorating in my personal view. I think the direction is very straight-forward and commonly clear to stream which seems compatible to the established pattern, especially since there are already a lot of changes in the music and the notes. For short, it's probably like "right here follows drums, right there is vocals" or whatever consistency is. If only I ever have a single doubt in my mind, I would already made this as a small change onto that. I guess it's too late for that~


all of those issues are not really why i popped though, because the main reasons are these:
00:00:840 -
01:08:500 -
01:20:947 -
01:21:266 -

basically, a bunch of jump streams. i am of the strong belief that these jump streams are very unjustified and out of place in the map. if you listen to the song, there is nothing on the small white ticks indicating such an abrupt movement.

00:00:761 (4,5,6) - this jump creates a sharp direction change, which is awkward enough, but since there's absolutely nothing changing in the drum riff the player has no indication that the jump is even going to occur.

01:08:420 (6,7) - this one is even worse since it's a jump back and forth that's also mapped to some really quiet drums and has a jump based on the vocals which it isn't really following at all.

01:20:867 (10,1,2) - this one has a similar issue though it doesn't have a backward awkward angle at least

01:21:186 (4,1,2) - this one on the other hand is really bad since the jump and spacing increase is mapped to the vocals stopping. the song intensity is decreasing and there's a really high pressure movement. that doesn't make any sense to me.

I've already redone those jump streams since the time you've told me in the beginning, and thought you wouldn't check this map again next time. Well, I guess this whole time finding a BN to pop the bubble wasn't the best option. But hey, better late than never ;p

the fact that these jump streams are used is a problem in of itself to me, but the fact that they're only used in the very intro and the very end is also an issue. it's entirely possible to build the map around overmapped 1/4 jumpstreams, but you don't use them consistently at all so it just makes them really sudden, even more unfitting than normal, and generally low quality to me.

please let me know what you think now that my personal problem has been expressed

What I think of your expression towards my map, I find it pretty... impudent and overly malicious. But at least I tried keeping myself and other things positive to avoid such drastic acts. But there, I've already reconsidered those "nonsensical" jump streams you've told long ago. I'm actually wrong and faulty for not poking you to tell that before you looked through my top difficulty.

So jokes aside, everything should be done by now.
Or, if you want me to take another look of this difficulty with the rest of them and do something a little better or worse, then sure. But you're partly responsible.

It was not my intention to sound malicious, or even act in that way. If it appears that I'm acting out of bad faith, I apologize and I'll gladly explain more what I mean, or why I've decided to pop this. Feel free to PM me in game and we can talk about the map, since these changes appear to address almost everything that I pointed out.

I did look at the other difficulties, and I'd be fine iconning this set with some minor changes (like some super nazi blanket stuff basically) whenever that other set is either ranked or graved. However, as my biggest (and only) issue with the set is the top diff, I'd like to go over it with you before hand.

Major Edit

I apologize in advance for this.

After talking to Voli about his difficulty I realized that I cannot force him to change his difficulty into a form that I personally agree with. While I don't have any quality concerns, the mapping is not to my liking (due to our different opinions on how "rhythmically consistent" or repetitive a map should be). As such, I will not nominate this set. However, since all of the issues in the top difficulty that I believe to be unrankable issues were resolved, I cannot keep my bubble pop icon on this thread, and F D Flourite is free to rebubble it.

edited again: fixed wording to make my intentions clear.

My only remaining "problems" that are not caused by stylistic differences are that the hitsounding in the top two diffs is incredibly loud in my opinion, to the point of drowning out the song itself, and that the background isn't from the anime (though that was discussed in depth already and hardly an issue in the first place.) I do suggest lowering the hitsound volume near the ending (after the kiai) before ranking though.

For once, you are forgiven. Will adjust the volume settings lower on all diffs and some other terms of issues rather than the only two Extras when I have the time. Since I'm currently in a bad health and not going online at most times, you can talk it out here or whenever you occasionally found me in-game.

You're totally free to icon any time, popped or not. You're a Beatmap Nominator and it's your decision to nominate this set or not ;V

Nao Tomori wrote:

F D Flourite is free to rebubble it.

Sure

EDIT:
I'm ok with the hitsound at the end because there is a heavy increase of density there.
If you're trying to do anything to hitsound. Feel free to do it. I will recheck them later.

could you not

Sinnoh wrote:

could you not

Sorry is my job as bn

Sinnoh wrote:

could you not

eya, idk ur business here okay congratz

thanks canadian baka lol that would be a dream not come true

Very nice map! I hope it gets ranked! Good luck !

Thank you by the way.

Not even at least one BN could spare themselves checking any bubbled maps to either pop or qualify, assuming they're doing nothing other than selfishly mapping their own maps.

Cerulean Veyron wrote:

Thank you by the way.

Not even at least one BN could spare themselves checking any bubbled maps to either pop or qualify, assuming they're doing nothing other than selfishly mapping their own maps.

So I came here. I haven't made my own mapset for 3 months, and now I'm that one BN sparing my time checking this bubbled map.

[Cool!]
I'm gonna say this map is lacking proper emphasis, and sometimes the rhythms are not understandable. So let's talk about them.
* 00:05:149 (2,3,4) - So you used 3 same kind of 1/2 sliders consecutively, while the sound of 00:05:787 (4) - a lot different from others. And you already know that as I can see you hitsounded it differently. You make players 'hold' the slider after clicking 00:05:787 - but the sound there is not as long as the ones on 00:05:149 - and 00:05:468 - , and also 00:05:947 - is a strong drum and also a huge pitch change, making it more important than 00:06:106 (5) - which only contains a drum. So it should be either https://puu.sh/uTdHY/9c65ed780c.jpg or https://puu.sh/uTdLm/326b88fc89.jpg to emphasize them properly.
* 00:06:585 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - The point when the sharp angle appears has nothing to do with the music structure. You're providing a harsh experience on 00:06:984 - this spot but it's literally one of the weakest drum in here. If there's no musical support of doing it, you should rather not use such sudden change.
* 00:08:819 (1,2,3,4,5) - I don't get the rhythm of this at all. You ignored a lot of obvious 1/4 drums ( 00:09:058 - 00:09:457 - 00:09:697 - 00:09:856 - ) nor followed the melody correctly.



The upper one is the melody and the bottom one is how you mapped it. The ones you made clickable/sliderend looks just random and doesn't emphasize things in a correct way. At least if you prioritized white ticks over red ticks (because that's how the song is basically structured) that would be a bit more understandable. But uhh, this is the hardest diff so there's no reason to make some strong sounds different than other strong sounds.
I also don't really get, why 00:08:899 - this no-sound is mapped as a sliderend while you ignored a lot of real 1/4s.

* 00:23:819 (4,5) - Why a jump? It's even bigger than 00:24:457 (2,3) - very clear distinct vocals?
* 00:25:255 (6,1) - The sound of 00:25:574 - is much stronger than 00:25:415 - so this feels like a wrong emphasis. It's just same as 00:17:596 (1) - 00:20:149 (1) - 00:22:702 (1) - .
* 00:30:999 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - No strong drum sound on 00:31:239 (6) - , and strong drum/vocal on 00:31:479 - , so why not https://puu.sh/uTf2U/e7f5db9ea1.jpg ? Also, considering that 00:31:479 - 00:31:638 - are both important vocal sounds, you could make bigger jumps for both of them. I'm not sure why these are so shrunk.
* 00:33:713 (4,5) - I'm very sad that these two different sounds are mapped with same 1/2 sliders. Both 00:34:032 - and 00:34:191 - are quite strong but the latter is represented much weaker as a sliderend.
* 00:34:032 (5,1) - And now I am prone to say that 00:34:351 - is important than both 00:34:032 - 00:34:191 - but 00:34:032 (5,1) - is way closer than 00:33:713 (4,5) - ? And even more than that, 00:34:511 - is the start of all of 00:34:351 (1,2,3,4) - these high vocals but you literally made 00:34:511 - like the weakest sound in this whole part.
* 00:35:628 (1,2) - Similar issue as above. To add something, 00:35:787 - is a sound more relevant to 00:35:947 - and 00:36:106 - so instead of repeating two 1/2 sliders, you should divide them into { 00:35:628 - } and { 00:35:787 - 00:35:947 - 00:36:106 - }
* 00:36:266 (3,4,5) - Not sure how reducing the spacing can emphasize strong&unique sounds.
* 00:38:340 - You really want to ignore this strong drum on the top diff?
* 00:45:042 (1) - Why NC? It makes no sense with the music or pattern, or whatever.
* 00:50:947 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The spacing gets wider until 5, then it suddenly gets reduced? If this is a build up, the scale should constantly go larger, if not the same. These spacing changes just look like random.
* 00:53:979 (2,3) - 00:59:085 (2,3) - 01:04:191 (2,3) - 01:09:298 (2,3) - Again, why not a slider + circle? That makes much more sense with the music.
* 01:04:670 (4,5) - Unlike others there's no strong vocal nor a strong drum, so using a jump here seems a lot exaggerated.
* 01:14:404 (2,3,4) - Again same issue. 01:14:723 - is much stronger than 01:14:564 - , and 01:14:723 - is more related to 01:14:883 - 01:15:042 - so using two same kind of 1/2 sliders 01:14:564 (3,4) - doesn't really make sense. 01:14:404 (2,3) - should be slider + circle.
* 01:16:957 (2,3) - same
* 01:24:138 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - Pretty much same as 00:08:819 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - . You're putting just 'some' drums here and there without any strict reason behind it. You should try to stick to a layer of sound you want to prioritize, and focus on those to show players what you're trying to follow. The current rhythm just looks like a mess.

So let me summarize the main issues:
1. Sliderends cannot emphasize as much as clickable objects. But there are so many spots where weaker sounds are emphasized more than strong sounds. Not only a matter of clickable/non-clickable issues, but it also occurs through the wrong spacing emphasis.
2. One of the things that make sliderends even weaker than others is that the general spacing is way too large compared to the slider velocity. You can never provide enough emphasis through a sliderend with such a low sv. Just think of this: Would you feel strong enough when what you need to do is to just move slowly until the beat?
3. Those two drum sections. Using only some of them even without following the basic music structure is just random and doesn't make the map to follow the music correctly.

I would also add that the general spacing concept is lacking and most of the map just seems 'flowing' only. It sometimes has good patterns from part to part, but they mostly don't work nicely as part of the whole map's structure.

So I hope you would read through my mod and consider what you can try to improve in general.

eyaaa... You've been busy checking through this mapset, yes? Well then, right now... It's about to get busier B)

Doyak wrote:

[Cool!]
I'm gonna say this map is lacking proper emphasis, and sometimes the rhythms are not understandable. So let's talk about them.
* 00:05:149 (2,3,4) - So you used 3 same kind of 1/2 sliders consecutively, while the sound of 00:05:787 (4) - a lot different from others. And you already know that as I can see you hitsounded it differently. You make players 'hold' the slider after clicking 00:05:787 - but the sound there is not as long as the ones on 00:05:149 - and 00:05:468 - , and also 00:05:947 - is a strong drum and also a huge pitch change, making it more important than 00:06:106 (5) - which only contains a drum. So it should be either https://puu.sh/uTdHY/9c65ed780c.jpg or https://puu.sh/uTdLm/326b88fc89.jpg to emphasize them properly.
Either way or another, these "drums" you're mentioning doesn't sound very sturdy as an exception of the other drums on track. But for the slider here is basically keeping the upbeat in strain rather than being followed with no transition, as dwindled. But hey, the three-circles rhythm capture you've linked wouldn't be a bad idea to try it out! It kinda fits better with the song track rather than an emphasize so... maybe yeah.

* 00:06:585 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - The point when the sharp angle appears has nothing to do with the music structure. You're providing a harsh experience on 00:06:984 - this spot but it's literally one of the weakest drum in here. If there's no musical support of doing it, you should rather not use such sudden change.
I guess people don't get it in depth of this disregarding aesthetics and sense. I'm quite not a big fan of arranging a ton of circle-streams when it comes to mapping something difficult, although it's current state is also not really the best thing to keep and knew someone like you would say so for sure. If I'd be obliged to recreate the structure of the stream here, I wouldn't mind redoing more turning curves by adjusting a few placements on some circles or simply remapping it. But if it's one of those two options, specifically remap, I'll be damned to redo it because it's been kept so long since the day of submission.

Of course, I may not likely to diminish the stream for the note density or those common things in every Extra difficulties. But at least I'm reconsidering this part in order to leave patterns work in contrast alongside the emphasis with the drumline in my personal view. I don't mind not changing stuff here hugely too as said, will get into consideration of this.

* 00:08:819 (1,2,3,4,5) - I don't get the rhythm of this at all. You ignored a lot of obvious 1/4 drums ( 00:09:058 - 00:09:457 - 00:09:697 - 00:09:856 - ) nor followed the melody correctly.



The upper one is the melody and the bottom one is how you mapped it. The ones you made clickable/sliderend looks just random and doesn't emphasize things in a correct way. At least if you prioritized white ticks over red ticks (because that's how the song is basically structured) that would be a bit more understandable. But uhh, this is the hardest diff so there's no reason to make some strong sounds different than other strong sounds.
I also don't really get, why 00:08:899 - this no-sound is mapped as a sliderend while you ignored a lot of real 1/4s.
I don't actually mainstream a lot of white ticks, exception of the downbeats and dominant 1/4s, just as you said "song structured that way" or something else. In every hard difficulties, shouldn't there always be anything more interesting in variations between the rhythm on the song track and here, no? The point why I'd like to keep this kind of rhythm composition, is because those "strong" sounds really deserves a click considering your opinion is probably like hearing almost every single instrument including the background guitar strings which makes you call it "other strong sounds", if that's what you've told here. But most of all, I'm actually following the drumline over anything since it's pretty audible at utmost capacity in the song track along with this "melody".

Lastly, I don't even hear this "real" 1/4s you were saying at the end. The sliderends are supposed to be in distress of the upbeats including 00:08:899 - over to the next red tick, nearly similar reason to what I said before. As in, saying "maybe not" for making a change here if you don't mind me complaining.

* 00:23:819 (4,5) - Why a jump? It's even bigger than 00:24:457 (2,3) - very clear distinct vocals?
Yes, because it has this "very clear distinct" vocals and a good downbeat that's highly worth a jump to follow. You've already explained it for yourself lol

* 00:25:255 (6,1) - The sound of 00:25:574 - is much stronger than 00:25:415 - so this feels like a wrong emphasis. It's just same as 00:17:596 (1) - 00:20:149 (1) - 00:22:702 (1) - .
It's probably a distance-spaced structure of a density over the white ticks, rather than calling it a straight "wrong emphasis". As I don't intend to decelerate the distance spacing while the song and vocals are too great that deserves to be followed and clickable. Which bares me to say for your suggestion, the emphasis might get worse in perspective. So countering wouldn't be the best thing here for now.

* 00:30:999 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - No strong drum sound on 00:31:239 (6) - , and strong drum/vocal on 00:31:479 - , so why not https://puu.sh/uTf2U/e7f5db9ea1.jpg ? Also, considering that 00:31:479 - 00:31:638 - are both important vocal sounds, you could make bigger jumps for both of them. I'm not sure why these are so shrunk.
Likely to agree with you. I might make a small change, but nearly similar to yours disregarding the minor vocals. Looking by your view saying that its "shrunk" won't help at all for your information.

* 00:33:713 (4,5) - I'm very sad that these two different sounds are mapped with same 1/2 sliders. Both 00:34:032 - and 00:34:191 - are quite strong but the latter is represented much weaker as a sliderend.
But in gameplay these actually do play quite suitable at least. One's the original and the other is mirrored-in-rotation so yeah, you know what's the difference other than it's design of patterning and aesthetics here? It's the note density. The vocals over this track is pretty good, yes. By the sound of it being similar to 00:34:989 (4) - so that the emphasis in-between would be evaluated and balanced. Well... since I disagreed to change this issue, feel free to be depressed for now~

So assuming you want to make me replacing them to circles would just leave the rhythm compositions overdone and would seriously lack potential notes for sliders to input. The sliderends on the sliders here suffices at least rather than clicking in everything or basically minor beats. Not to mention the downbeats as well as the snares too.

* 00:34:032 (5,1) - And now I am prone to say that 00:34:351 - is important than both 00:34:032 - 00:34:191 - but 00:34:032 (5,1) - is way closer than 00:33:713 (4,5) - ? And even more than that, 00:34:511 - is the start of all of 00:34:351 (1,2,3,4) - these high vocals but you literally made 00:34:511 - like the weakest sound in this whole part.
So uhhh... What exactly do you want me to change here? I couldn't guess better whether it's like; to increase the distance spacing for an emphasized jump, or maybe try replacing notes to follow something to keep up the intensity, or whatever that's related to the subject.

* 00:35:628 (1,2) - Similar issue as above. To add something, 00:35:787 - is a sound more relevant to 00:35:947 - and 00:36:106 - so instead of repeating two 1/2 sliders, you should divide them into { 00:35:628 - } and { 00:35:787 - 00:35:947 - 00:36:106 - }
Nearly the same dispute as on 00:33:713 (4,5) -. There's no point in having these two slider look too different in making a variation or something that would fit best for this part, if they barely relate to the song track and rhythm. As told before.

* 00:36:266 (3,4,5) - Not sure how reducing the spacing can emphasize strong&unique sounds.
In this matter, the distance spacing is decelerated alongside with the vocals modulating a bit lower too. On another note, I had this 00:36:585 (5,1) - spacing be lower than 00:35:947 (2,3) - just so the vocals can possibly be "emphasized" and to not make it badly accentuated in comparison as well. So there's no need to redo this.

* 00:38:340 - You really want to ignore this strong drum on the top diff?
Hearing that it doesn't even sound like a "strong drum" than some hi-hats landing on red ticks like the drum-whistle hitsounding, and hearing it more deeply makes it sound more degrading alike the rest in this song track. So then, it's a yes from me.

* 00:45:042 (1) - Why NC? It makes no sense with the music or pattern, or whatever.
oh... uhh, whoops... New combo removed.

* 00:50:947 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The spacing gets wider until 5, then it suddenly gets reduced? If this is a build up, the scale should constantly go larger, if not the same. These spacing changes just look like random.
If I were to know the distance spacing between them going constantly larger, haven't you even thought of difficulty spiking? I mean, increased spacing can affect the star rating and would also increase the gap between this difficulty and Voli's. Since you don't know yet, I'm actually NOT ranking this map for difficulty and creating some gigantic screen jumps all over the build-up. And THAT is the thing what's called "random". Even this "not the same thing" is not random as well, if you haven't seen the yellow text on the top right. This should be the least reason why I've reduced the spacing.

But commonly as in my personal perspective; The circle size of this difficulty's setting is 5.5 and is already small. With bigger jumps, it is hardly passable with the cursor aiming and flowing for an Extra difficulty. So that's clearly a no-no.

* 00:53:979 (2,3) - 00:59:085 (2,3) - 01:04:191 (2,3) - 01:09:298 (2,3) - Again, why not a slider + circle? That makes much more sense with the music.
Alright, hopefully I could pull off a better patterning while doing so.

* 01:04:670 (4,5) - Unlike others there's no strong vocal nor a strong drum, so using a jump here seems a lot exaggerated.
Well, it should be.

* 01:14:404 (2,3,4) - Again same issue. 01:14:723 - is much stronger than 01:14:564 - , and 01:14:723 - is more related to 01:14:883 - 01:15:042 - so using two same kind of 1/2 sliders 01:14:564 (3,4) - doesn't really make sense. 01:14:404 (2,3) - should be slider + circle.
Also the same thing here told above. Just don't wanna repeat the same thing again and again. So there's that.

At least I've reconsidered the slider + circle issue.

* 01:16:957 (2,3) - same -

* 01:24:138 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - Pretty much same as 00:08:819 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - . You're putting just 'some' drums here and there without any strict reason behind it. You should try to stick to a layer of sound you want to prioritize, and focus on those to show players what you're trying to follow. The current rhythm just looks like a mess.
Seeing your intolerant side, and looking for this "strict" reason why I've differed much compared to the intro of the track, then I will tell this. I've made many considerations a lot more of trying to make elements and notes of the song stand out better with improvements while looking over each and every mod here, rather than focusing only the playability and giving little-to-almost no care of other objectives. Speaking about the rhythm here specifically, I reduced the harshness of the density by not adding too many circles and other notes in order to make a complete finish for the outro without being done swiftly.

Just because I did not emphasize them together, or copy the rhythm from there to here, or something that makes a good transition of the rhythm... does not mean it shouldn't provide results being said. To be honest, like... In what way does those rhythm compositions mentioned convey what the song is actually doing? My answer is that the intro follows many sections of the songs like most drums and a few snares, and the outro is following the primary track as finalized to be followed rather than increasing note density overtime and leave players fail at the very last part to succeed pass.

So I've told this "strict" reason and explained it there, as I suggest for you to be careful with your tone next time. Calling something a "mess" negatively won't get you anywhere or give any beneficent even when it comes to improving a mapset. So please take your words more seriously, I'm not doing this for free without an effort.

So let me summarize the main issues:
1. Sliderends cannot emphasize as much as clickable objects. But there are so many spots where weaker sounds are emphasized more than strong sounds. Not only a matter of clickable/non-clickable issues, but it also occurs through the wrong spacing emphasis.
2. One of the things that make sliderends even weaker than others is that the general spacing is way too large compared to the slider velocity. You can never provide enough emphasis through a sliderend with such a low sv. Just think of this: Would you feel strong enough when what you need to do is to just move slowly until the beat?
3. Those two drum sections. Using only some of them even without following the basic music structure is just random and doesn't make the map to follow the music correctly.

You may see yourself reading out all this, as I assume that I may have answered those three general issues.

I would also add that the general spacing concept is lacking and most of the map just seems 'flowing' only. It sometimes has good patterns from part to part, but they mostly don't work nicely as part of the whole map's structure.

So I hope you would read through my mod and consider what you can try to improve in general.

Done. Thanks for checking out my top difficulty! I have the feeling that the process will not be easy to cakewalk and get my first hard map to qualified, but will barely go through any obstacles hopefully... If I'm doing things right.

I'll be waiting your turn, and I'm always ready to discuss more for anything as you like.

general


Easy 00:53:500

Normal 01:21:585

Advanced 00:11:053

Hard 00:04:989

Light Insane 00:21:585

MrSergio's Insane 00:31:798

Voli's Extra 01:22:862

Cool diff 01:03:713

Nice map

Alright, now let's see...

Cerulean Veyron wrote:

eyaaa... You've been busy checking through this mapset, yes? Well then, right now... It's about to get busier B)

Doyak wrote:

[Cool!]
I'm gonna say this map is lacking proper emphasis, and sometimes the rhythms are not understandable. So let's talk about them.

* 00:06:585 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - The point when the sharp angle appears has nothing to do with the music structure. You're providing a harsh experience on 00:06:984 - this spot but it's literally one of the weakest drum in here. If there's no musical support of doing it, you should rather not use such sudden change.
I guess people don't get it in depth of this disregarding aesthetics and sense. I'm quite not a big fan of arranging a ton of circle-streams when it comes to mapping something difficult, although it's current state is also not really the best thing to keep and knew someone like you would say so for sure. If I'd be obliged to recreate the structure of the stream here, I wouldn't mind redoing more turning curves by adjusting a few placements on some circles or simply remapping it. But if it's one of those two options, specifically remap, I'll be damned to redo it because it's been kept so long since the day of submission.

Of course, I may not likely to diminish the stream for the note density or those common things in every Extra difficulties. But at least I'm reconsidering this part in order to leave patterns work in contrast alongside the emphasis with the drumline in my personal view. I don't mind not changing stuff here hugely too as said, will get into consideration of this.

The point here is not that the stream has a sharp angle. It's about where you used it. You can achieve both: Using a special stream pattern & make it fit the song's strong points.
Obviously 00:06:904 - is stronger and is one of the main beats while 00:06:984 - is a very regular 1/4 drum, and is on blue tick which doesn't work as a turning point. So if possible, why not adjust it so that players can feel the relation between note structure and the music? They're not same 1/4 sounds; some of them are more important and some are less important. If not same, the turning point should be on where the music can be divided.

* 00:08:819 (1,2,3,4,5) - I don't get the rhythm of this at all. You ignored a lot of obvious 1/4 drums ( 00:09:058 - 00:09:457 - 00:09:697 - 00:09:856 - ) nor followed the melody correctly.



The upper one is the melody and the bottom one is how you mapped it. The ones you made clickable/sliderend looks just random and doesn't emphasize things in a correct way. At least if you prioritized white ticks over red ticks (because that's how the song is basically structured) that would be a bit more understandable. But uhh, this is the hardest diff so there's no reason to make some strong sounds different than other strong sounds.
I also don't really get, why 00:08:899 - this no-sound is mapped as a sliderend while you ignored a lot of real 1/4s.
I don't actually mainstream a lot of white ticks, exception of the downbeats and dominant 1/4s, just as you said "song structured that way" or something else. In every hard difficulties, shouldn't there always be anything more interesting in variations between the rhythm on the song track and here, no? The point why I'd like to keep this kind of rhythm composition, is because those "strong" sounds really deserves a click considering your opinion is probably like hearing almost every single instrument including the background guitar strings which makes you call it "other strong sounds", if that's what you've told here. But most of all, I'm actually following the drumline over anything since it's pretty audible at utmost capacity in the song track along with this "melody".

Lastly, I don't even hear this "real" 1/4s you were saying at the end. The sliderends are supposed to be in distress of the upbeats including 00:08:899 - over to the next red tick, nearly similar reason to what I said before. As in, saying "maybe not" for making a change here if you don't mind me complaining.

By real 1/4s I meant the ones I pointed above 00:09:457 - 00:09:697 - 00:09:856 - . I get what you mean by distress of the upbeats, but there is a thing called "differentiation". By doing 00:08:500 (4,5,1,2) - this you provide 4 same 1/4 sliders and this makes players to expect 4 similar, if not same, sounds. But instead only 00:08:819 (1) - is representing something different. If a same pattern represents different things in the music, it cannot be following the changes of the music appropriately.

I'm mostly concerned about 00:09:138 (3,4,5) - this. I'm not against providing variations of rhythms, but you're like, switching between drums and melodies very randomly. Here's a quote from https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/SRC
"Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed."

So by using a triplet 00:09:138 (3,4,5) - you're providing a drum-following notes. But 00:09:298 (5) - this note passes through a very important drum sound of 00:09:457 - and focuses only on the melodies. So this makes it vague what you're actually try to follow, instead of providing rhythm variations while it is still well-stuck to the music.

* 00:23:819 (4,5) - Why a jump? It's even bigger than 00:24:457 (2,3) - very clear distinct vocals?
Yes, because it has this "very clear distinct" vocals and a good downbeat that's highly worth a jump to follow. You've already explained it for yourself lol
00:23:979 - is not a downbeat lol. If you meant the jump from 5 to 1 that's not what I'm talking about. Also it's just a long vowel which is not clearly distinct from 00:23:819 - . But 00:24:617 - has a clear sound 'ki'. So, mind explaining again, why 00:23:819 (4,5) - is bigger than 00:24:457 (2,3) - ?

* 00:33:713 (4,5) - I'm very sad that these two different sounds are mapped with same 1/2 sliders. Both 00:34:032 - and 00:34:191 - are quite strong but the latter is represented much weaker as a sliderend.
But in gameplay these actually do play quite suitable at least. One's the original and the other is mirrored-in-rotation so yeah, you know what's the difference other than it's design of patterning and aesthetics here? It's the note density. The vocals over this track is pretty good, yes. By the sound of it being similar to 00:34:989 (4) - so that the emphasis in-between would be evaluated and balanced. Well... since I disagreed to change this issue, feel free to be depressed for now~

So assuming you want to make me replacing them to circles would just leave the rhythm compositions overdone and would seriously lack potential notes for sliders to input. The sliderends on the sliders here suffices at least rather than clicking in everything or basically minor beats. Not to mention the downbeats as well as the snares too.

The difference between 00:34:032 (5) - and 00:34:989 (4) - is that the former one has shouting vocals on both the head and the tail, while the latter one has it only on the head. So saying they're similar is not really correct. It's closer to 00:34:670 (2,3) - rather than 4.

About the note density, it can always be changed when there are song elements that actually calls for it. In this case, shouting 1/2 vocals. I won't ask you to must-change it, but there's another reason why this is not working really well.

If you read my summary of the issues, I mentioned that the sv is way to low compared to the spacing. With current sv and ds, by using a slider there, 00:35:149 - became almost nothing compared to 00:34:032 - , while both 00:34:032 - 00:34:191 - are similarly important shouting vocals. So in this case you need more strict differentiation between clickable/non-clickable notes to emphasize what's more important. "This part lacks sliders" is not enough to weaken strong sounds.

* 00:35:628 (1,2) - Similar issue as above. To add something, 00:35:787 - is a sound more relevant to 00:35:947 - and 00:36:106 - so instead of repeating two 1/2 sliders, you should divide them into { 00:35:628 - } and { 00:35:787 - 00:35:947 - 00:36:106 - }
Nearly the same dispute as on 00:33:713 (4,5) -. There's no point in having these two slider look too different in making a variation or something that would fit best for this part, if they barely relate to the song track and rhythm. As told before.
I mean not making these two look differently. I mean having both 00:35:628 - and 00:35:787 - in a same slider lacks sound division. You can hear that a new layer of vocal starts at 00:35:787 - and continues on to 00:35:947 (2) - , which makes them have relevance instead of 00:35:628 - .

So I'm basically asking to divide 00:35:628 (1) - into two circles, and make 00:35:787 - 00:35:947 - 00:36:106 - work together while making 00:35:628 - irrelevant to them.

* 00:50:947 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The spacing gets wider until 5, then it suddenly gets reduced? If this is a build up, the scale should constantly go larger, if not the same. These spacing changes just look like random.
If I were to know the distance spacing between them going constantly larger, haven't you even thought of difficulty spiking? I mean, increased spacing can affect the star rating and would also increase the gap between this difficulty and Voli's. Since you don't know yet, I'm actually NOT ranking this map for difficulty and creating some gigantic screen jumps all over the build-up. And THAT is the thing what's called "random". Even this "not the same thing" is not random as well, if you haven't seen the yellow text on the top right. This should be the least reason why I've reduced the spacing.

But commonly as in my personal perspective; The circle size of this difficulty's setting is 5.5 and is already small. With bigger jumps, it is hardly passable with the cursor aiming and flowing for an Extra difficulty. So that's clearly a no-no.
So this is why you have to refrain yourself from using high spacing for less important sounds. I know it will become ridiculously hard if you keep increasing the spacing to the end. However there is a way that using smaller spacing for 00:50:947 (1,2,3,4) - too. Actually listening to it again, you don't really need to increase the spacing, but rather just keep the same intensity for 00:50:947 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - all these drums.

So how you used the spacing is like this:
2.4 - 2.7 - 2.9 - 3.1 - 1.4 - 2.6 - 1.4

If you can't use high spacing for the latter ones because of the difficulty spike, then why don't use something like

2.4 - 2.6 - 2.4 - 2.2 - 2.4 - 2.5 - 2.3(example)

when the intensity is basically all the same.

* 01:14:404 (2,3,4) - Again same issue. 01:14:723 - is much stronger than 01:14:564 - , and 01:14:723 - is more related to 01:14:883 - 01:15:042 - so using two same kind of 1/2 sliders 01:14:564 (3,4) - doesn't really make sense. 01:14:404 (2,3) - should be slider + circle.
Also the same thing here told above. Just don't wanna repeat the same thing again and again. So there's that.
Same from me, not gonna repeat.

At least I've reconsidered the slider + circle issue.
Yeah that's cool.

* 01:16:957 (2,3) - same -
If you're following the vocal, you can use a slider + circle here too, no?

* 01:24:138 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - Pretty much same as 00:08:819 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - . You're putting just 'some' drums here and there without any strict reason behind it. You should try to stick to a layer of sound you want to prioritize, and focus on those to show players what you're trying to follow. The current rhythm just looks like a mess.
Seeing your intolerant side, and looking for this "strict" reason why I've differed much compared to the intro of the track, then I will tell this. I've made many considerations a lot more of trying to make elements and notes of the song stand out better with improvements while looking over each and every mod here, rather than focusing only the playability and giving little-to-almost no care of other objectives. Speaking about the rhythm here specifically, I reduced the harshness of the density by not adding too many circles and other notes in order to make a complete finish for the outro without being done swiftly.

Just because I did not emphasize them together, or copy the rhythm from there to here, or something that makes a good transition of the rhythm... does not mean it shouldn't provide results being said. To be honest, like... In what way does those rhythm compositions mentioned convey what the song is actually doing? My answer is that the intro follows many sections of the songs like most drums and a few snares, and the outro is following the primary track as finalized to be followed rather than increasing note density overtime and leave players fail at the very last part to succeed pass.

So I've told this "strict" reason and explained it there, as I suggest for you to be careful with your tone next time. Calling something a "mess" negatively won't get you anywhere or give any beneficent even when it comes to improving a mapset. So please take your words more seriously, I'm not doing this for free without an effort.

I may have used a bad wording, sorry about that. What I meant about 'messy' is that they don't seem to follow a clear layer of the music and switched between drums/melodies in quite not understandable way.

As I said above, notes are expected to follow a kind of sound layer. So if you combine multiple layers into a section and switch between them in unexpected way, it only makes it vague of what these notes are supposed to follow, especially when you just pass through very large and clear sounds like 01:25:415 - 01:24:378 - 01:24:537 - this already shows that the notes have no interest in the drums; However you still used streams for some less important drums like 01:26:053 (4,5,6,7,8) - .

I get your purpose of not making the end too harsh. But is this the only way to avoid that? There are other options such as using 1/4 repeat sliders or kick sliders and you can even ignore some drums if they're not important. But in your current map it only causes random switches between drums and melodies instead of providing rhythm variety while still following a specific layer of the music.

What you explained in your reply is all about keeping the density to not make the part harsh, and not about each patterns make sense with the music. Obviously you can consider both. This is not the only way to achieve what you wanted by reducing the density.

So let me summarize the main issues:
1. Sliderends cannot emphasize as much as clickable objects. But there are so many spots where weaker sounds are emphasized more than strong sounds. Not only a matter of clickable/non-clickable issues, but it also occurs through the wrong spacing emphasis.
2. One of the things that make sliderends even weaker than others is that the general spacing is way too large compared to the slider velocity. You can never provide enough emphasis through a sliderend with such a low sv. Just think of this: Would you feel strong enough when what you need to do is to just move slowly until the beat?
3. Those two drum sections. Using only some of them even without following the basic music structure is just random and doesn't make the map to follow the music correctly.

You may see yourself reading out all this, as I assume that I may have answered those three general issues.

I would also add that the general spacing concept is lacking and most of the map just seems 'flowing' only. It sometimes has good patterns from part to part, but they mostly don't work nicely as part of the whole map's structure.

So I hope you would read through my mod and consider what you can try to improve in general.

Done. Thanks for checking out my top difficulty! I have the feeling that the process will not be easy to cakewalk and get my first hard map to qualified, but will barely go through any obstacles hopefully... If I'm doing things right.

I'll be waiting your turn, and I'm always ready to discuss more for anything as you like.

AlexyonRay wrote:

general


Easy 00:53:500

Normal 01:21:585

Advanced 00:11:053

Hard 00:04:989

Light Insane 00:21:585

MrSergio's Insane 00:31:798

Voli's Extra 01:22:862

Cool diff 01:03:713

Nice map

???

you really can't be serious with this bg XD

bg is a guy that looks like sakamoto? what is the problem lol

the bg is kyuhyun (kpop) and he literally uses it everywhere lol (idk if there is relation this time, it just seemd funny)

Euuuuggh, Couldn't reply as soon as possible because weekend shifts are... meh... I'm suffering ;-;

Doyak wrote:

Alright, now let's see...

[Cool!]
I'm gonna say this map is lacking proper emphasis, and sometimes the rhythms are not understandable. So let's talk about them.

* 00:06:585 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - The point when the sharp angle appears has nothing to do with the music structure. You're providing a harsh experience on 00:06:984 - this spot but it's literally one of the weakest drum in here. If there's no musical support of doing it, you should rather not use such sudden change.
I guess people don't get it in depth of this disregarding aesthetics and sense. I'm quite not a big fan of arranging a ton of circle-streams when it comes to mapping something difficult, although it's current state is also not really the best thing to keep and knew someone like you would say so for sure. If I'd be obliged to recreate the structure of the stream here, I wouldn't mind redoing more turning curves by adjusting a few placements on some circles or simply remapping it. But if it's one of those two options, specifically remap, I'll be damned to redo it because it's been kept so long since the day of submission.

Of course, I may not likely to diminish the stream for the note density or those common things in every Extra difficulties. But at least I'm reconsidering this part in order to leave patterns work in contrast alongside the emphasis with the drumline in my personal view. I don't mind not changing stuff here hugely too as said, will get into consideration of this.

The point here is not that the stream has a sharp angle. It's about where you used it. You can achieve both: Using a special stream pattern & make it fit the song's strong points.
Obviously 00:06:904 - is stronger and is one of the main beats while 00:06:984 - is a very regular 1/4 drum, and is on blue tick which doesn't work as a turning point. So if possible, why not adjust it so that players can feel the relation between note structure and the music? They're not same 1/4 sounds; some of them are more important and some are less important. If not same, the turning point should be on where the music can be divided.

- Hmm, sort of that by the sound of the continuous drum streaming. I also felt 00:06:904 (6) - having a slight change of the drum sounding where you can possibly call it a "strong beat", yeah. I'm just bad at these kinds of accurate stream designing................. welp, I wonder what to do here.

* 00:08:819 (1,2,3,4,5) - I don't get the rhythm of this at all. You ignored a lot of obvious 1/4 drums ( 00:09:058 - 00:09:457 - 00:09:697 - 00:09:856 - ) nor followed the melody correctly.



The upper one is the melody and the bottom one is how you mapped it. The ones you made clickable/sliderend looks just random and doesn't emphasize things in a correct way. At least if you prioritized white ticks over red ticks (because that's how the song is basically structured) that would be a bit more understandable. But uhh, this is the hardest diff so there's no reason to make some strong sounds different than other strong sounds.
I also don't really get, why 00:08:899 - this no-sound is mapped as a sliderend while you ignored a lot of real 1/4s.
I don't actually mainstream a lot of white ticks, exception of the downbeats and dominant 1/4s, just as you said "song structured that way" or something else. In every hard difficulties, shouldn't there always be anything more interesting in variations between the rhythm on the song track and here, no? The point why I'd like to keep this kind of rhythm composition, is because those "strong" sounds really deserves a click considering your opinion is probably like hearing almost every single instrument including the background guitar strings which makes you call it "other strong sounds", if that's what you've told here. But most of all, I'm actually following the drumline over anything since it's pretty audible at utmost capacity in the song track along with this "melody".

Lastly, I don't even hear this "real" 1/4s you were saying at the end. The sliderends are supposed to be in distress of the upbeats including 00:08:899 - over to the next red tick, nearly similar reason to what I said before. As in, saying "maybe not" for making a change here if you don't mind me complaining.

By real 1/4s I meant the ones I pointed above 00:09:457 - 00:09:697 - 00:09:856 - . I get what you mean by distress of the upbeats, but there is a thing called "differentiation". By doing 00:08:500 (4,5,1,2) - this you provide 4 same 1/4 sliders and this makes players to expect 4 similar, if not same, sounds. But instead only 00:08:819 (1) - is representing something different. If a same pattern represents different things in the music, it cannot be following the changes of the music appropriately.

I'm mostly concerned about 00:09:138 (3,4,5) - this. I'm not against providing variations of rhythms, but you're like, switching between drums and melodies very randomly. Here's a quote from https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/SRC
"Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed."

So by using a triplet 00:09:138 (3,4,5) - you're providing a drum-following notes. But 00:09:298 (5) - this note passes through a very important drum sound of 00:09:457 - and focuses only on the melodies. So this makes it vague what you're actually try to follow, instead of providing rhythm variations while it is still well-stuck to the music.

- Okay, so... the three parts you mentioned were supposed to be followed? It sounded more like a background music to me, which I wouldn't want to collide the current rhythm just to follow melody. Moreover, the two 00:09:697 - and 00:09:856 - doesn't really sound like "real 1/4" not as hearing the drums there. I mean like, really? Is there some instrument landed there other than drums or chords? Even with a slower playback rate, it's barely audible to make it worth a click. All I could hear the drums streaming are on 00:08:979 (2,3,4) - 00:09:537 (5,6) - and 00:10:175 (8,9,10) -, nothing else.

However, maybe 00:09:457 - seems okay for a triplet since it sounds pretty much imminent. So, no problem. It'll also break that guideline a little bit, but why not?

* 00:23:819 (4,5) - Why a jump? It's even bigger than 00:24:457 (2,3) - very clear distinct vocals?
Yes, because it has this "very clear distinct" vocals and a good downbeat that's highly worth a jump to follow. You've already explained it for yourself lol
00:23:979 - is not a downbeat lol. If you meant the jump from 5 to 1 that's not what I'm talking about. Also it's just a long vowel which is not clearly distinct from 00:23:819 - . But 00:24:617 - has a clear sound 'ki'. So, mind explaining again, why 00:23:819 (4,5) - is bigger than 00:24:457 (2,3) - ?

- Well, I'll be much obliged being asked for an explanation. You might've been overlooked at this jump visually, while thinking that 00:23:819 (4,5) - is too big in structure or something. Ehmm, you might've forgot to check the spacing right? Alike, 00:23:819 (4,5) - is near the next downbeat which is really something that may need a jump for sure. And 00:24:457 (2,3) - is probably this http://puu.sh/uYTh5/05c0adaa6e.jpg if you haven't seen it before. So it should be doing the same thing for once to be called "very clear distinct".

lol x2

* 00:33:713 (4,5) - I'm very sad that these two different sounds are mapped with same 1/2 sliders. Both 00:34:032 - and 00:34:191 - are quite strong but the latter is represented much weaker as a sliderend.
But in gameplay these actually do play quite suitable at least. One's the original and the other is mirrored-in-rotation so yeah, you know what's the difference other than it's design of patterning and aesthetics here? It's the note density. The vocals over this track is pretty good, yes. By the sound of it being similar to 00:34:989 (4) - so that the emphasis in-between would be evaluated and balanced. Well... since I disagreed to change this issue, feel free to be depressed for now~

So assuming you want to make me replacing them to circles would just leave the rhythm compositions overdone and would seriously lack potential notes for sliders to input. The sliderends on the sliders here suffices at least rather than clicking in everything or basically minor beats. Not to mention the downbeats as well as the snares too.

The difference between 00:34:032 (5) - and 00:34:989 (4) - is that the former one has shouting vocals on both the head and the tail, while the latter one has it only on the head. So saying they're similar is not really correct. It's closer to 00:34:670 (2,3) - rather than 4.

About the note density, it can always be changed when there are song elements that actually calls for it. In this case, shouting 1/2 vocals. I won't ask you to must-change it, but there's another reason why this is not working really well.

If you read my summary of the issues, I mentioned that the sv is way to low compared to the spacing. With current sv and ds, by using a slider there, 00:35:149 - became almost nothing compared to 00:34:032 - , while both 00:34:032 - 00:34:191 - are similarly important shouting vocals. So in this case you need more strict differentiation between clickable/non-clickable notes to emphasize what's more important. "This part lacks sliders" is not enough to weaken strong sounds.

- To a more simple input, is it like "replace this slider into two circles" or "this slider is too weak to follow vocals"? Neither one of those two options, It's actually going to be moved over 00:33:394 (2,3) - on rhythm timeline than just making it too similar to each other. I understand the differences, there's one on head and tail, the other isn't. But really, just like I've told before. It's better to follow the best and the important ones rather than everything, including the minor vocals hitting low notes and the minor stuffs that's implemented in the song, in the song track which will probably create more confusion over the rhythm. No wonder why you'd say "some rhythms aren't quite understandable" in the first place.

The slider velocity changes here doesn't affect much or barely, even in the field of the gameplay. The intention of it is making some sliders a tiny bit slow as well as this part of the verse is being decelerated as usual. Pretty much slightly, didn't made it way too slow since the song itself is already great enough to calibrate with the circles and sliders.

* 00:35:628 (1,2) - Similar issue as above. To add something, 00:35:787 - is a sound more relevant to 00:35:947 - and 00:36:106 - so instead of repeating two 1/2 sliders, you should divide them into { 00:35:628 - } and { 00:35:787 - 00:35:947 - 00:36:106 - }
Nearly the same dispute as on 00:33:713 (4,5) -. There's no point in having these two slider look too different in making a variation or something that would fit best for this part, if they barely relate to the song track and rhythm. As told before.
I mean not making these two look differently. I mean having both 00:35:628 - and 00:35:787 - in a same slider lacks sound division. You can hear that a new layer of vocal starts at 00:35:787 - and continues on to 00:35:947 (2) - , which makes them have relevance instead of 00:35:628 - .

So I'm basically asking to divide 00:35:628 (1) - into two circles, and make 00:35:787 - 00:35:947 - 00:36:106 - work together while making 00:35:628 - irrelevant to them.

- In fact, the word "irrelevant" is something I'd love to insert onto any maps of mine including this set. To estimate those "layers" over the vocals you mentioned, doesn't really sound like a new track of the vocals that started on 00:35:628 -. It's more like of a continuous sentence of the lyrics, which sounds like being in the same line of that "layer".

Despite that, replacing this slider into two circles will also seem like a bad idea too. But I'll find a bit of a solution to look into this, so I could reconsider this and redo the part correctly.

* 00:50:947 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The spacing gets wider until 5, then it suddenly gets reduced? If this is a build up, the scale should constantly go larger, if not the same. These spacing changes just look like random.
If I were to know the distance spacing between them going constantly larger, haven't you even thought of difficulty spiking? I mean, increased spacing can affect the star rating and would also increase the gap between this difficulty and Voli's. Since you don't know yet, I'm actually NOT ranking this map for difficulty and creating some gigantic screen jumps all over the build-up. And THAT is the thing what's called "random". Even this "not the same thing" is not random as well, if you haven't seen the yellow text on the top right. This should be the least reason why I've reduced the spacing.

But commonly as in my personal perspective; The circle size of this difficulty's setting is 5.5 and is already small. With bigger jumps, it is hardly passable with the cursor aiming and flowing for an Extra difficulty. So that's clearly a no-no.
So this is why you have to refrain yourself from using high spacing for less important sounds. I know it will become ridiculously hard if you keep increasing the spacing to the end. However there is a way that using smaller spacing for 00:50:947 (1,2,3,4) - too. Actually listening to it again, you don't really need to increase the spacing, but rather just keep the same intensity for 00:50:947 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - all these drums.

So how you used the spacing is like this:
2.4 - 2.7 - 2.9 - 3.1 - 1.4 - 2.6 - 1.4

If you can't use high spacing for the latter ones because of the difficulty spike, then why don't use something like

2.4 - 2.6 - 2.4 - 2.2 - 2.4 - 2.5 - 2.3(example)

when the intensity is basically all the same.

- Well, alright. Rather than exponentially increasing the distance spacing larger and larger. Maybe I could do that at least. So... ehh, speaking about remapping this part for that, I nearly didn't have some ideas of a design pattern here so I ended up mapping some back-and-forths and hopefully below >3.0x spacing suffices for this build-up section.

* 01:14:404 (2,3,4) - Again same issue. 01:14:723 - is much stronger than 01:14:564 - , and 01:14:723 - is more related to 01:14:883 - 01:15:042 - so using two same kind of 1/2 sliders 01:14:564 (3,4) - doesn't really make sense. 01:14:404 (2,3) - should be slider + circle.
Also the same thing here told above. Just don't wanna repeat the same thing again and again. So there's that.
Same from me, not gonna repeat.

At least I've reconsidered the slider + circle issue.
Yeah that's cool.

* 01:16:957 (2,3) - same -
If you're following the vocal, you can use a slider + circle here too, no?

- Of course, not.

* 01:24:138 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - Pretty much same as 00:08:819 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - . You're putting just 'some' drums here and there without any strict reason behind it. You should try to stick to a layer of sound you want to prioritize, and focus on those to show players what you're trying to follow. The current rhythm just looks like a mess.
Seeing your intolerant side, and looking for this "strict" reason why I've differed much compared to the intro of the track, then I will tell this. I've made many considerations a lot more of trying to make elements and notes of the song stand out better with improvements while looking over each and every mod here, rather than focusing only the playability and giving little-to-almost no care of other objectives. Speaking about the rhythm here specifically, I reduced the harshness of the density by not adding too many circles and other notes in order to make a complete finish for the outro without being done swiftly.

Just because I did not emphasize them together, or copy the rhythm from there to here, or something that makes a good transition of the rhythm... does not mean it shouldn't provide results being said. To be honest, like... In what way does those rhythm compositions mentioned convey what the song is actually doing? My answer is that the intro follows many sections of the songs like most drums and a few snares, and the outro is following the primary track as finalized to be followed rather than increasing note density overtime and leave players fail at the very last part to succeed pass.

So I've told this "strict" reason and explained it there, as I suggest for you to be careful with your tone next time. Calling something a "mess" negatively won't get you anywhere or give any beneficent even when it comes to improving a mapset. So please take your words more seriously, I'm not doing this for free without an effort.

I may have used a bad wording, sorry about that. What I meant about 'messy' is that they don't seem to follow a clear layer of the music and switched between drums/melodies in quite not understandable way.

As I said above, notes are expected to follow a kind of sound layer. So if you combine multiple layers into a section and switch between them in unexpected way, it only makes it vague of what these notes are supposed to follow, especially when you just pass through very large and clear sounds like 01:25:415 - 01:24:378 - 01:24:537 - this already shows that the notes have no interest in the drums; However you still used streams for some less important drums like 01:26:053 (4,5,6,7,8) - .

I get your purpose of not making the end too harsh. But is this the only way to avoid that? There are other options such as using 1/4 repeat sliders or kick sliders and you can even ignore some drums if they're not important. But in your current map it only causes random switches between drums and melodies instead of providing rhythm variety while still following a specific layer of the music.

What you explained in your reply is all about keeping the density to not make the part harsh, and not about each patterns make sense with the music. Obviously you can consider both. This is not the only way to achieve what you wanted by reducing the density.

So let me summarize the main issues:
1. Sliderends cannot emphasize as much as clickable objects. But there are so many spots where weaker sounds are emphasized more than strong sounds. Not only a matter of clickable/non-clickable issues, but it also occurs through the wrong spacing emphasis.
2. One of the things that make sliderends even weaker than others is that the general spacing is way too large compared to the slider velocity. You can never provide enough emphasis through a sliderend with such a low sv. Just think of this: Would you feel strong enough when what you need to do is to just move slowly until the beat?
3. Those two drum sections. Using only some of them even without following the basic music structure is just random and doesn't make the map to follow the music correctly.

You may see yourself reading out all this, as I assume that I may have answered those three general issues.

I would also add that the general spacing concept is lacking and most of the map just seems 'flowing' only. It sometimes has good patterns from part to part, but they mostly don't work nicely as part of the whole map's structure.

So I hope you would read through my mod and consider what you can try to improve in general.

I'll probably quit being a stubborn now. It's like dealing with a "pff no icon/mod unless u fix this" person as they are hardly persuadable or too insistent on their opinions or they're just being too sarcastic. But you... you're actually different~ Since I have no choices left right now, any more checks of yours will probably be changed. And know, that you're partly responsible. I'm just starting to get tired typing hundreds of wordy stuffs while some of the time they're hardly describable, but no rush of course.

AlexyonRay wrote:

general


Easy 00:53:500

Normal 01:21:585

Advanced 00:11:053

Hard 00:04:989

Light Insane 00:21:585

MrSergio's Insane 00:31:798

Voli's Extra 01:22:862

Cool diff 01:03:713

Nice map

...What?

Are you... going to help this map or something? o.O

Irreversible wrote:

the bg is kyuhyun (kpop) and he literally uses it everywhere lol (idk if there is relation this time, it just seemd funny)

Please, I am absolutely serious. With the background, guest difficulties, mapset, everything. It's not wrong using him everywhere as long as it does not penetrate others' anyway.

You can keep laughing and make fun of the map whatever you want. But someday, believe it or not, this map is gonna laugh back.

Cerulean Veyron wrote:

- Okay, so... the three parts you mentioned were supposed to be followed? It sounded more like a background music to me, which I wouldn't want to collide the current rhythm just to follow melody. Moreover, the two 00:09:697 - and 00:09:856 - doesn't really sound like "real 1/4" not as hearing the drums there. I mean like, really? Is there some instrument landed there other than drums or chords? Even with a slower playback rate, it's barely audible to make it worth a click. All I could hear the drums streaming are on 00:08:979 (2,3,4) - 00:09:537 (5,6) - and 00:10:175 (8,9,10) -, nothing else.

However, maybe 00:09:457 - seems okay for a triplet since it sounds pretty much imminent. So, no problem. It'll also break that guideline a little bit, but why not?

Hmm yeah, I actually went too far for the other ones than you fixed. They still have drums though and they're quite obvious for me, but I guess I can live with the current rhythm.

Cerulean Veyron wrote:

- Well, I'll be much obliged being asked for an explanation. You might've been overlooked at this jump visually, while thinking that 00:23:819 (4,5) - is too big in structure or something. Ehmm, you might've forgot to check the spacing right? Alike, 00:23:819 (4,5) - is near the next downbeat which is really something that may need a jump for sure. And 00:24:457 (2,3) - is probably this http://puu.sh/uYTh5/05c0adaa6e.jpg if you haven't seen it before. So it should be doing the same thing for once to be called "very clear distinct".

lol x2

Cerulean Veyron wrote:

- To a more simple input, is it like "replace this slider into two circles" or "this slider is too weak to follow vocals"? Neither one of those two options, It's actually going to be moved over 00:33:394 (2,3) - on rhythm timeline than just making it too similar to each other. I understand the differences, there's one on head and tail, the other isn't. But really, just like I've told before. It's better to follow the best and the important ones rather than everything, including the minor vocals hitting low notes and the minor stuffs that's implemented in the song, in the song track which will probably create more confusion over the rhythm. No wonder why you'd say "some rhythms aren't quite understandable" in the first place.

The slider velocity changes here doesn't affect much or barely, even in the field of the gameplay. The intention of it is making some sliders a tiny bit slow as well as this part of the verse is being decelerated as usual. Pretty much slightly, didn't made it way too slow since the song itself is already great enough to calibrate with the circles and sliders.

So I think this is where we can't get to an agreement in general. Your explanation to 00:23:819 (4,5) - is that they're near at the downbeat, but I really cannot agree with that. You make players act for every single notes, so every notes have to have their own meaning by themselves too. By doing this jump you're also emphasizing 00:23:979 - this specific beat, not something nearby that note. Well, of course you can create a general intensity for this part, but that's different from emphasizing 00:24:138 - this specific downbeat, because you cannot emphasize one sound when other sounds have similar jumps.

As your reason to many 'not understandable (by me)' rhythms is that, I think I can't do much about that. Slow sliders are problematic just because they give very weak impact on these specific beats than others, but I guess you don't care much about that, as the whole patterns create enough intensity for the song's overall atmosphere.

And about your argument "It's better to follow the best and the important ones rather than everything, including the minor vocals hitting low notes and the minor stuffs that's implemented in the song, in the song track which will probably create more confusion over the rhythm.", if this was supposed to be some sort of easy difficulty, I would agree with that. But this is an Expert difficulty, isn't it? No matter how complicated the song is within just 1/2 beats, it cannot be any confusing for those players, as long as the map follows the song correctly. Providing easy rhythms is not the goal of mapping anyway. If you can make the map fit the song better, there's no reason to get away from it.

Cerulean Veyron wrote:

- Well, alright. Rather than exponentially increasing the distance spacing larger and larger. Maybe I could do that at least. So... ehh, speaking about remapping this part for that, I nearly didn't have some ideas of a design pattern here so I ended up mapping some back-and-forths and hopefully below >3.0x spacing suffices for this build-up section.

Nice, this is what I wanted.



I'll leave this to other BNs to judge then. If you need more of my opinions then sure, anytime, but I don't think we can agree to each other on some points as we have quite different perspective on fundamental of mapping I guess.

@F D Flourite: You can rebubble after Cerulean replies and wants to go again, if you still agree with everything in the map.

Doyak wrote:

Cerulean Veyron wrote:

- Well, I'll be much obliged being asked for an explanation. You might've been overlooked at this jump visually, while thinking that 00:23:819 (4,5) - is too big in structure or something. Ehmm, you might've forgot to check the spacing right? Alike, 00:23:819 (4,5) - is near the next downbeat which is really something that may need a jump for sure. And 00:24:457 (2,3) - is probably this http://puu.sh/uYTh5/05c0adaa6e.jpg if you haven't seen it before. So it should be doing the same thing for once to be called "very clear distinct".

lol x2

Cerulean Veyron wrote:

- To a more simple input, is it like "replace this slider into two circles" or "this slider is too weak to follow vocals"? Neither one of those two options, It's actually going to be moved over 00:33:394 (2,3) - on rhythm timeline than just making it too similar to each other. I understand the differences, there's one on head and tail, the other isn't. But really, just like I've told before. It's better to follow the best and the important ones rather than everything, including the minor vocals hitting low notes and the minor stuffs that's implemented in the song, in the song track which will probably create more confusion over the rhythm. No wonder why you'd say "some rhythms aren't quite understandable" in the first place.

The slider velocity changes here doesn't affect much or barely, even in the field of the gameplay. The intention of it is making some sliders a tiny bit slow as well as this part of the verse is being decelerated as usual. Pretty much slightly, didn't made it way too slow since the song itself is already great enough to calibrate with the circles and sliders.

So I think this is where we can't get to an agreement in general. Your explanation to 00:23:819 (4,5) - is that they're near at the downbeat, but I really cannot agree with that. You make players act for every single notes, so every notes have to have their own meaning by themselves too. By doing this jump you're also emphasizing 00:23:979 - this specific beat, not something nearby that note. Well, of course you can create a general intensity for this part, but that's different from emphasizing 00:24:138 - this specific downbeat, because you cannot emphasize one sound when other sounds have similar jumps.

As your reason to many 'not understandable (by me)' rhythms is that, I think I can't do much about that. Slow sliders are problematic just because they give very weak impact on these specific beats than others, but I guess you don't care much about that, as the whole patterns create enough intensity for the song's overall atmosphere.

And about your argument "It's better to follow the best and the important ones rather than everything, including the minor vocals hitting low notes and the minor stuffs that's implemented in the song, in the song track which will probably create more confusion over the rhythm.", if this was supposed to be some sort of easy difficulty, I would agree with that. But this is an Expert difficulty, isn't it? No matter how complicated the song is within just 1/2 beats, it cannot be any confusing for those players, as long as the map follows the song correctly. Providing easy rhythms is not the goal of mapping anyway. If you can make the map fit the song better, there's no reason to get away from it.

By meaning "near the downbeat", isn't that a linking phase of "accentuate the part/beat"? I just wanted to make things simple so it didn't really worked well for you at least. So about that, I'll briefly explain this. Either the baseline, drums, or melody chances are pretty high that you can add jumps just as how I've done currently to 00:23:819 (4,5) - . As it is possible to say it's already having to get a feeling for this "specific beat", which is making the jump between 00:23:979 (5) - and 00:24:138 (1) - bigger than 00:23:819 (4,5) -. But the point is the (4) and (5) are already incentive to represent the downbeat "nearly". So for something you call "emphasizing"; The more I do that, the repetitive it may become to be overused. Sometimes, inserts in the song track (or maybe the vocals perhaps, dunno...) or transitions between phrases can sometimes be mapped with similar jumps, as I got your thing finally. So as I could still hear through the parts for the intensity of the beats, jumps like these on this top difficulty is purely necessary even with lower-than-average emphasize to follow the song track and dense.

For the rhythm arranged with 1/2; if the song were to be complicated and I put myself to add more than just beats over 1/2 snaps, I thought of people like you would still impel about the difficulty with having rhythms that are "not understandable" or something else of it. So I didn't want to create a riot of it and just move along with the current regulated rhythms for every player to hear much clearer and distinguishable than randomly complicated. As it's their position as the player will be able to expect the 1/2 beat and can focus on playability as they usually do. Lastly, I always remain here, and I would never get away with some issue even if it's subjective... Ehh just to let you know.



I'll leave this to other BNs to judge then. If you need more of my opinions then sure, anytime, but I don't think we can agree to each other on some points as we have quite different perspective on fundamental of mapping I guess.

@F D Flourite: You can rebubble after Cerulean replies and wants to go again, if you still agree with everything in the map.

Since you, as a BN, looked through my map. I literally want to thank you highly for giving good tweaks on the highest difficulty.

And to continue the map's process, I don't think Flourite would feel okay to rebubble for the third time pretty much. So maybe... euuughh here we go again... (/_<'')

00:03:394 (1) - silence sliderend pls and make it soft sampleset

can u do it in my diff if u dont do it in ur own xd

silenced sliderends on op intro hoyl r u dam sure omfv asafdjas ;O

When?

00:06:585 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Drums here are way too loud. It completely covers the music and I cannot hear any bgm in this part. Consider reducing volume here pls.

Call me back

Reduced the volume slightly by 15%, which right now is 70% (Applied to all my diffs too). Every track can be heard at will, but if it's still loud I might reduce to minimum 65% and that's all I can adjust for the intro of the song intensity.

Updated for now

but I didn't see a proper fix in Cool! diff. The volume there is still 85% o.o