Loctav wrote:

Could you please not name the difficulties in a way that they make people assume that they are mapped by other users, while they aren't? This is false attribution (I don't care why you did it, because I know why you did it)

If you want to have every difficulty to have a custom name, then you have a problem, because only one map might have a custom name. For all others, you have to probably figure out how to name stuff properly to reflect the hierarchy of the difficulties.

You shouldn't false-label things for the sake of circumventing a ruleset you disagree with. This is not how it works.

(also the AR8 difficulty is pretty aids, but I leave that to others to decide)

EDIT: I also consider the usage of a different BG on every difficulty as unnecessary.

The diff's are clearly named based on the characters of the anime. I'd like to have more opinions before actually renaming them. I'm fine with the dq, but I'd like to hear a wider variety of opinions, because many people have commented on them being very fitting, and unique to this set. It's true that they might make people think the diff's are mapped by someone other than me, but the correlation between Background, Anime, and Naming really suggest that the "mapper" isn't actually a osu! user. Basically, considering the context, I think people with some logic to them will think the diff's were mapped by the characters, rather than by actual mappers. Since i'm throwing this out for discussion, I'm also prepared to make a change for this, depending on how discussion goes. This is something I sort of anticipated, so I've prepared a second nomenclature in case the community found this not acceptable.

I'm not trying to have a custom name for every difficulty, otherwise I would have just settled for "Akashi, Kuroko, Murasakibara... etc..." without including the "Extra" to denote a hierarchy of difficulties. All7 difficulties have their own gimmick and shouldn't be considered objectively more difficulty in any sort of Hierarchy. All of them are "Extra" level, hence all of them are named "Extra".

The BG's are very relevant to each diff's theme, I will be keeping them.

Thanks for the concerns Loctav! I'll get more opinions before requalifying, I don't want to rush this, since it's a really important set for me.

Okorin wrote:

My 2c along with a question:
what exactly makes the akashi's Extra diff require AR10? It's part of the theme. AR 10 rushes the player, and forced them to be constantly on their toes.
I kinda disagree that centereing a diff around mouse drift is a good idea, it maks the entire diff kinda boring and along with that a pain to play for me I think it's a great idea. Boring? I don't know. It uses only one kind of flow, which is really unique in mapping. Usually we try to avoid this because usually we don't have a reason for using only one type of flow, but here there is an overwhelmingly strong thematic reason for using only counter-clockwise flows.
that Aomine diff abuses that the rc guideline only specifies that sliderheads and circles must be snapping to beats, it's like you're asking for us to include sliderends in the rewording. I'd personally classify this thing as overdone for the sake of having a lot of sliders All slider-ends have been softened using a custom soft-hitnormal. They may seem overdone do you, but they fit the difficulty's theme very well. You aren't required to play out the sliders anyways, since all of them have been set up in a way where the player need only to click on the head without necessitating slider-body movement to get 300's. Furthermore, the kicksliders contribute to a more rushed feeling in the map through the constant presence of slider-balls.
Along with that the general clutter in Kuroko diff doesnt compliment AR8 very well, it seems like you used AR8 solely for the sake of making the map more confusing than it alreasy would be without the lowered AR. I like lower AR Extras but I can't bring myself to agree with that diff because it pretty much is for the sake of being confusing, like that seems to be its main intention That is the main intention yes. AR 8 is being used to make the difficulty even harder to follow because it creates more objects on the playfield for the player to keep track of. This is very important to Kuroko's theme, since he is know for being basically the "Phantom 6th man" on the team, and his lack of presence makes it hard for people to keep track of his location. I wanted this diff to have a lower AR so players get that same feeling of having to keep track of more of the playfield if they want to track Kuroko's movements in the game.

Thanks for the concerns, Okoratu!

Shiro wrote:

Hey there,

This map has been brought up to me for a few reasons, and apart from the confusing difficulty naming (as Loctav pointed out), there are many things I'd like to address. I'll be focusing on the Extra difficulties here.

General

1. The difficulty settings are extremely inconsistent. There should be a progression based on the difficulty of every diff (since you have many of them, a linear progression would be good), but instead, it feels like the difficulty settings were scrambled and assigned to the wrong diff. I understand that you were trying to achieve something by changing the difficulty settings per diff (for example, for the AR8 one), but it backfires because of how many difficulties you've mapped and how they relate to one another and gets lost in the sheer number of difficulties there are. I won't comment on each difficulty's settings (except one), so keep this in mind when going through the diff-specific mods.

Akashi

1. The beginning is inconsistent. I like that you used two circles instead of a slider every measure for variety and highlighting the song's structure, but the spacing should follow, and it doesn't. You start off with jumps 00:00:937 (1,2,3) - but immediately switch to regular spacing 00:02:137 (1,2,3) - 00:02:137 (1,2,3) - then back to jumps 00:04:537 (1,2,1) - although the song doesn't change on these objects. Stick to either the jumps or the regular spacing for this structure to have better effect. Actually, the jump on 00:01:087 (2) - is due to the stronger guitar sound here, and the jump on 00:04:687 (2) - is in preparation for the kicksliders and SV change.
2. 00:04:537 (1,2) - I assume you spaced these out more to follow the guitar going into higher pitch, but if that's the case, 00:04:237 (5) - should also be spaced out more, and the jump should be on 00:04:237 (5,1) - to follow the pitch change while 00:04:537 (1,2) - remains at a regular spacing to keep following the structure you introduced. Right now, the biggest emphasis in this pattern is on 00:04:687 (2) - which corresponds to absolutely nothing in the song - it's a structure tool you added, and it should not be emphasized like this. Like I said above, the jump is used in anticipation of a transition, so your assumption is incorrect.
3. 00:04:837 (1) - Should be a simple circle. The guitar does not appear until 00:04:987 (2) - where a 1/4 slider does fit, so by introducing the other 1/4 slider too early, you're ruining the effect this would have had and I assume was intended for the guitar. No, I want kicksliders here for that rushed feeling.
4. 00:05:137 (1,2) - I like this movement. It goes really well with the guitar and it feels properly spaced. The only beef I have with this is the blanket is very imperfect and you are more than capable of fixing it. However, this spacing 00:05:437 (2,1) - is massively exaggerated and doesn't have the same cool effect as 00:05:137 (1,2) - . The other problem is how fast the slider is and the absolute antiflow of these two. I'm not too sure why the slider is so fast but you probably do have a reason for it, but the spacing should definitely not be this large. You should keep the spacing around the same as 00:05:137 (1,2) - because the guitar riff doesn't change between them. The addition of the drums doesn't justify this big a change in spacing. I fixed the blanket. The spacing is not actually that large. Consider that this is a slider to slider jump, and there is plenty of slider-leniency involved, since these sliders are arranged to go in opposite directions. You aren't required to play out the entirety of slider 2. Rather, the way I set up the flow through the blanket and overlap makes it encouraging for players to stop early and snap to the next slider.
5. 00:08:437 (2,3,4,5) - This spacing is rather confusing (also 3,4,5 aren't equally spaced, I'm not sure that was intended). It would make more sense to space 00:08:437 (2,3) - out to make this less confusing and separate the 1/2 jump from the 1/4 sliderjumps more carefully. This is fine. I don't see a problem with spacing here... 3>4>5 not being equally spaced is fine too, because I'm using an SV change here. Its more of a visual pattern here.
6. 00:08:887 (4,1) - Are completely overlapping each other. Yes. But this is AR 10. Also, I'm fine with the full overlap. It's defiinitely readable due to how few objects are on the screen.
7. 00:09:487 (1,2,1,2) - This movement is cool, but 00:09:937 (2,1) - completely ruins it. The guitar doesn't change its phrase or anything at this point, so why change the spacing and introduce this big flow killer ? 00:10:087 (1) - would be much better reversed to keep the flow straight as it was during the sliderjumps. Also, the sudden speedup you introduce with 00:10:537 (1) - would work much better if it starts from a stack instead of a jump. No, I think the flowbreak is what makes this movement so cool lol. The break works really well emphatically too.
8. 00:10:987 (3,5,3,5) - There's no reason for these to be 1/4 sliders. I want to use 1/4 sliders here. They work great as a beat-pairing tool, and are relevant to the difficulty's theme of duality too.
9. 00:11:287 (5,6,5,6) - You contradict yourself with your flow again. Huh? No I don't... that's part of the pattern.
10. 00:16:087 (4,3,5,7) - Again, there's no reason for these to be 1/4 sliders. They should be regular circles. No, 1/4 kicksliders work really well.
11. 00:18:037 (3) - Highlighting this one in particular because again, you're not following your own structure. 00:18:037 (3,4,5) - is clearly an antijump pattern but you decided to make the first object a 1/4 slider when it bears no difference with the other ones. Either make them all 1/4 sliders, or all circles, but you need to stay consistent. I want the anti-jump here. The kickslider here isn't being used in some sort of beat-pairing, considering the lack of a "reply". It helps signal the anti-jump.
12. 00:18:787 (1,2) - This is very confusing. It looks like (1) is a 3/4 sped up slider and (2) is on the red tick, and the spacing really reads like that. In the previous occurence of this short bout of melody 00:09:487 (1,2,1,2) - you had 4 clicks going with the guitar but here you decided to ignore one, which is inconsistent and confusing. I understand why you decided not to use 1/4 sliders again considering the slider speed here, but at least make sure that all four guitar notes are properly hit. Well, I wanted it to be a bit harder to read here, since I set up the blanket so that as much of 2's approach circle was obstructed as possible. Here, I want players to concentrate on judging the speed of the slider, and gauging when to actually click on 2, based on the rhythm and speed of slider 1. I want more slider-path and slider-speed > rhythm awareness here.
13. 00:20:137 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Why are you ignoring the song here? Your spacing does not follow the guitar in any way and you even undermapped it. There are no other instruments there, so try to change this to better reflect it. I'm not ignoring the song at all? This follows the strong notes, and creates a snappy flow.
14. 00:22:087 (2) - Thank you for not using a 1/8 kickslider. Np
15. 00:23:737 (1,2) - These are really not following anything. If you want to follow the drums, continue the 1/1, otherwise try to follow the vocals, but this rhythm feels very off. The spacing feels very odd too and it's pretty clear that you only spaced them this way for the sake of the pattern. Hmm, I agree. Changed this to a dotted rhythm.
16. 00:25:237 (2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4) - This insane increase in density is very random and unexpected. I get that you were trying to follow the bass, but it feels wrong. This is a slow part of the song and your first patterns 00:22:537 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - did indicate this, but you decide to completely go against that and add these. It'd be much better to keep the density low here. Even if you were following the bass, you should have made them all 1/4 sliders for the sake of consistency. Again, this feels like you only did this for the pattern and it doesn't fit. See, what you did at 00:27:637 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - works very well with the bass and the switch from vocals to bass fits a lot because the vocals become too scarce, but there's no reason to switch beforehand. Since I increased density from the rhythm before, the density isn't as unexpected. Other than that, I just don't agree with your evaluation here, I think the beat-pairing here fits remarkably well.
17. 00:29:737 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,1) - This was cool. Thanks
18. 00:32:437 (2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4) - Again, these 1/4 sliders are out of place and only exist for the pattern. They exist for the pattern yes. This is a gimmicky difficulty that has a really strong thematic reason for stuff like this. If you want a conventional difficulty, you won't find it here, sorry.
19. 00:37:387 (3,4,5,6,7,1) - ^ ^
20. 00:40:237 (6,3) - This should be a jump, just like you did for 00:38:887 (4,5) - Not sure what you mean here. I think you have the wrong thing highlighted...
21. 00:40:687 (2,3) - This fits but why are 00:40:837 (3,4,5,6,7) - spaced so low ? You should have kept the jump pattern going, it would have been more pleasant to play and more fitting. The song is transitioning to a calmer section, I want spacing to reflect this.
22. 00:41:737 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - I would just like to point out that the least dense part of the map here, which corresponds to a fairly slow part of the song in terms of instrumentation (which you followed), has higher spacing than the whole verse before.
23. 00:45:337 (1,2,3) - This is severely undermapped and very confusing. They look like they're 1/4 apart but there's a big gap between them. At least make them repeat sliders to fit the song better and be less confusing. I want them to be harder to read though, in order to highlight the drums. Also yes, its "undermapped" in the sense where I don't consider vocals heavilty here, but the drums and percussion are what I want to highlight here with the kicksliders. I think they are very easy to play after you know the mechanic here, and they end up following the drums very effectively.
24. 00:47:437 (5,6) - Should be two circles. At no other point during this part of the song you ever repeat that, so this feels very much out of place. Also, this might be my personal preference but why are you following the drums when the vocals at 00:46:537 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - are so much more interesting ? Here, its cuz of the two bass drums.
25. 00:50:137 (1,1,1) - This was cool but I think the second one should be 1/2. I see what you did with the rhythm progression (1/2 -> 3/4 -> 1/1), so this is up to you. Yea, I prefer to keep for the rhythm progression you mentioned.
26. 00:52:537 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - The spacing and density of these completely contradict what you seemed to be introducing with 00:51:337 (1,3) - . These two sliders pretty much show that you're going to follow the vocals and play on a very stop-and-go motion using extremely slow sliders jumping into one another, but you instantly ruin this effect with these circles. Hmm... I don't know about this. I think what I have is perfectly acceptable, and plays really well, but I think your point is reasonable too, so I'll get more opinions.
27. 00:54:937 (1,2,3,4,5) - Same! ^
28. 01:02:137 (3) - That was surprising but it's fun. Also 01:02:137 (3,1) - plz fix stack thx u Fixed
29. 01:03:337 (1) - That was surprising but not fun. Sorry!
30. 01:03:787 (3,5) - 01:06:187 (3,5) - 01:08:737 (4,5) - 01:09:937 (4,5) - 01:11:137 (4,5) - 01:11:887 (2,4) - 01:15:787 (2) - 01:18:037 (2,3) - 01:19:387 (3,5) - 01:22:987 (3,5) - 01:25:387 (3,5) - Again, those 1/4 sliders should be replaced with 1/2s.No for the same reasons as above.
31. The entire chorus is chaotic. I have no idea what you're trying to follow. Neither the rhythms nor the spacing seem to be following anything the song does. Everything is following the song, I'm using a very specific beat-pairing rhythm here.
32. 01:07:837 (6,7,8,9,1) - There's absolutely no reason to space these like you did, especially when you space them differently right after 01:17:437 (1,2,3,4,1) - I like them. I can't give you a reason why they have to be precisely that shape. But making them standardized only makes the map lose its touch and gimmicky characteristic. I think the way I spaced them fit the difficulty's gimmick really well, and contribute to that staggered aesthetic.
33. 01:21:337 (1) - You're ignoring a very important beat in the song on the red tick after this. I just want to focus on the white ticks here.
34. 01:21:937 (3) - Should be a circle too, to stay consistent with 01:21:637 (2,4) - No, it's consistent with 1.
35. 01:23:437 (6,1) - I don't see the reason why this has to be antiflow. (1) is not emphasized in any way in the song - in fact you even chose to make it a repeat slider. You should reverse this to keep the flow consistent here. But it's a strong beat, and its a downbeat too... I think it's emphasized, though maybe not as strong as some of the other downbeats. Nevertheless, the flow-break here works really well for me.

Kuroko

1. You lied, this wasn't mapped by you, it was mapped by AngelHoney.
2. Okay so overall, I understand that you were trying to make this difficulty hard to read with the overlaps and AR8, but this is... overdone. If you want to make it hard to read, make the patterns confusing, mix back and forths and straight jumps, antijumps and jumps, etc. but overlapping everything this way just won't work. This sort of stuff works 00:08:737 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - and doesn't even need AR8 to be difficult to read. I don't have much to say about this apart from the fact that it's completely cramped and, in my opinion, really unfit for this mapset. You're also breaking the rules many times with your fully overlapping sliders like 01:02:137 (8,1) - . I don't think this difficulty is rankable at all. Sorry, i think this difficulty is perfectly rankable. I don't think you understand this difficulty, going by how you seem to be judging all these difficulties from the perspective of a standard and generic "Extra" difficulty mindset. They are all gimmicky in their own sense, please consider their gimmick more thoroughly before trying to standardize them for the purpose of standarizing.

Murasakibara

1. You lied, this wasn't mapped by you, it was mapped by Hollow Wings.
2. Circle size is... yeah. You know. Also, the entire difficulty has vastly inflated spacing - using big circles is not an excuse for doing this. This could very easily be made better by choosing a more appropriate circle size and fitting spacing. This fits the theme though uh,,,?
3. Overall this is much better than the first diff in terms of structure and consistency !
4. 00:26:137 (1,1,1) - I found these three very confusing because they end on a strong vocal, when you had spent the entire beginning of the diff focusing heavily on them. Replace them with 3/4+circle, I think it'd fit, and you'd keep the effect you were going for. They don't end on strong vocals though? The rhythm is clearly 3/2 emphasized here.
5. 00:58:537 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - TENGAKU WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I liked this pattern
6. 01:12:937 (1,3) - Again these two sliders feel very unfitting because they go over strong vocals when you've made a point to follow the vocals mostly in this diff. Again, I think you are mishearing. The slider-end isn't an emphasized vocal...

Aomine

1. You lied, this wasn't mapped by you, it was mapped by Priti.
2. This entire diff is heavily overmapped. My guess is you were trying to make it using as few circles as possible, but replacing 1/2 circles with 1/4 sliders doesn't work. Even if we replaced 1/4 sliders with circles, it would be overmapped, like for 00:10:837 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - where you're basically following nothing. The guitar and the drums both keep a steady 1/1 rhythm. Also, the spacing overall is very inflated, like 00:29:737 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2) - where you have nearly fullscreen jumps in a fairly neutral part of the song. It's not the chorus, it's not a solo, it's just the middle of the verse, or 00:34:837 (2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - which follow nothing in the song. The abuse of 1/4 sliderstreams make the actually fitting ones feel completely irrelevant and that's a big problem.
3. 00:01:237 (2,3,4,5) - Why the circles with this odd spacing ? You should have made them 1/2 sliders like you did for the entire introduction. i want some more variety. The spacing is a staggered zigzag type pattern.

Kise

1. You lied, this wasn't mapped by you, it was mapped by Andrea. And it shares the same issue as a lot of his maps: the spacing and rhythms feel off because they're forced for the sake of symmetry while not actually following the song. The difference is yours is heavily overspaced, while Andrea's maps tend to be monotonous and with low spacing.

Midorima

1. You lied, this wasn't mapped by you, it was mapped by Irreversible.
2. AR9.3 OD10 is an insult to all creation.

Kagami

1. You lied, this wasn't mapped by you, it was mapped by Taeyang.

Okay, honestly, I don't have the patience to point out everything wrong with all these diffs, so I'll summarize: every difficulty save from the first two ones suffer from a severe case of overspacing and blandness. I don't know the anime and I don't know if there's a sort of power ranking between the characters whose names you took, but it very much feels like you tried very hard to force star rating to establish one. I get that you were trying to make each difficulty fit the character's specific skill in the anime (as do the backgrounds) but that's too obscure. It doesn't work and it makes most of these difficulty play really badly and be unfitting. The rhythms you chose are very generic and barely fit the song (if at all sometimes), and because of that, playing through all diffs was a chore. I felt like I was playing the exact same difficulty under the influence or different illegal substances.

I understand that you were trying to give each difficulty its own theme based around a central mapping (the first difficulty) and using very similar rhythms and patterns, and I like the idea, but it's executed poorly and it just feels like a cheap excuse at mapping random things to the same song. It would work on a more complex song, but this is unfortunately very shallow, and what you did with the extra Extra diffs is out of place and very intrusive. All the difficulties feel the same, and I don't think they add anything good to the mapset. You'd be better off keeping the first difficulty, which I think is the best one, and adding the other ones as extra download to the description.

The first diff is salvageable if you take time to correct the structure and consistency issues. The rest of them I think would be better off removed and added as an external download for fun. This is a good idea, and it can be fun, but I don't think it should be ranked. Centering your map around a given gimmick is not a bad choice - in fact it often is a good one. It helps pin down the structure, gives the map a backbone and makes it more cohesive as a whole. However, this only works if the gimmick you chose reflects the song. In your case, none of the gimmicks you build your diffs around is part of the song. They're external factors taken from something that has no actual relation to the song itself. That's why they don't work.

Good luck with this set !

Thanks for the concerns Shiro. I think you've really approached this set the wrong way though. Your mod was trying to "normalize" the difficulty but for what reason? I don't want these diff's to just be typical Extra's (aside from Kagami's, because his theme is jumps). I want them all to contain some sort of interesting feature and theme to them, that I sustain throughout the entire difficulty. You may disagree with them, but many people seem to enjoy them, including me. I wish you'd went through the difficulty with the mindset of improving the gimmicks I have, since they clearly aren't fundamentally flawed.

Shiirn wrote:

Unique identities can exist without needing to completely scrap the song in favor of mapping specific styles or concepts.


As a showcase, this map shows interesting concepts applied consistently. The fact that they're incredibly emphasized just means the music itself is basically background music. You follow the map, not the music.


Again, this is something I personally dislike because Monstrata is making a map with the music as a background suggestion that he's outright ignoring - the AR10, the OD10, the HP10, they're all concepts to make the map interesting or different. The maps are dedicated to satisfying their own concept, the music is largely irrelevant and that's what I find distasteful in Monstrata's recent forays into conceptual mapping. He's just ignoring the music and as a mapper I find that disgraceful. It's like he's forgetting that we're supposed to make maps for music, with the concepts and unique ideas being secondary or thematic with the song/track itself. (And I'm not talking the BS 'oh but X character is Y' excuses - thematic for genre, musical style, and structure. Monstrata is more than skilled enough to understand this.)

This is not to say he's a bad mapper - Monstrata is skilled and quite knowledgeable, I just feel he's applying it in all the wrong proportions. Each of these concepts can fit an entirely separate track, and can even make for excellent beatmaps, but they're just thrown into a shitty TV size song because it's a fine sacrifice to show off some amusing concepts. Quaver had a similar issue - it's got an interesting concept, but it uses the wrong kind of music to really make it feel appropriate. (fwiw Strahv is a great track to show off the crescendo theme, but the breakcore sections might be irritating)

I don't believe maps should only be made to follow the music. Why do you play a map? Why don't you just listen to the song? Because you want something more than just the music. You want to enjoy the song through gameplay elements that highlight different aspects of the song. Mapping is it's own art form.

Monstrata wrote:

they clearly aren't fundamentally flawed.

Well, sorry to break it to you, but they are. You're artificially forcing a random gimmick based on something random to the song when it doesn't work that way.

I didn't expect you to even read the mod, honestly, so I'm honoured. Shame you're so stuck on not ever changing anything in your maps. Good luck, you won't see me in this thread again.

Shiro wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

they clearly aren't fundamentally flawed.

Well, sorry to break it to you, but they are. You're artificially forcing a random gimmick based on something random to the song when it doesn't work that way.

I didn't expect you to even read the mod, honestly, so I'm honoured. Shame you're so stuck on not ever changing anything in your maps. Good luck, you won't see me in this thread again.

Thanks Shiro! I'm afraid I just have to disagree. You might think they are forced, but they aren't. I'm aware controversial maps will elicit negative opinions too, I'm not going to argue with you about why these concepts work as well as they do, I think we just have differing opinions.

I'm with Monstrata on this. I also agree with the diff names and the names in the description. It only adds to the theme of this mapset, it makes it THAT much more involving. Even players who didn't watch the anime can appreciate what's going on by just a simple glance at the diff guide.

Shiro wrote:

Shame you're so stuck on not ever changing anything in your maps

Shame that pure creativity is being suppressed imo. But that's just my two cents. This mapset is awesome, and I hope it gets to see the light of ranked status without any major changes that detracts from the theme of this mapset.

I mentioned this before, but perhaps to please both, names like:
Extra (Aomine)
Extra (Kuroko)
etc
Would be cool! It would still show the characters, and not seem like a GDer is doing it.

Arphimigon wrote:

I mentioned this before, but perhaps to please both, names like:
Extra (Aomine)
Extra (Kuroko)
etc
Would be cool! It would still show the characters, and not seem like a GDer is doing it.

HAHA. That's exactly what Irre said when I asked for his opinion. I might do that, and just get rid of the genitive case 's. What do people think of that structure?

Easy
Normal
Hard
Insane
Extra (Kuroko)
Extra (Akashi)
etc...

or

Easy
Normal
Hard
Insane
Kuroko (Extra)
Akashi (Extra)

Leave the diffnames first imo so its more standardized and character names after since they are the additive gimmick to the difficulty <3

to be honest i kinda like (extra) being added later more, but both should work.

I think first one would be good compromise, second one could be DQ according to custom difficulty rule.

good luck with reranking

I think character (extra) is way nicer than the other order since it puts the characters more into focus, which fits what you wanted to do with this set much better

If I were to chose honestly, my favorite naming is the current one, however if I only had to chose between those two styles, the second style is better, same reason as Lasse

Changing my mind, Lasse is better, +1 to that

I really like Kuroko's difficult even if it was hard to read. The gimmick of the map was very fun and interesting to play and i believe ar8 helps this. Just my two cents.

DONJGER wrote:

I really like Kuroko's difficult even if it was hard to read. The gimmick of the map was very fun and interesting to play and i believe ar8 helps this. Just my two cents.

i agri

Akashi's Extra looks like a guest diff
Akashi (Extra) also looks like a GD
Extra (Akashi) this one is more clearly than the other two

Just get the people with those usernames to make GDs *run*
(Not serious post)

Natsu wrote:

Akashi's Extra looks like a guest diff
Akashi (Extra) also looks like a GD
Extra (Akashi) this one is more clearly than the other two

Yeah there's two sides to this, the last one is more "proper", but the other two fit the theme of this mapset, and I'm all for the first two options lol

Would probably be a good idea to also change the description as it is initially misleading.

Why not just do the character names? Custom difficulty names already indicate the map is an Extra anyways.

I think the issue is about looking like a GD rather than a diff made by monstrata.

Man I actually LIKED the fact that everything looked like a GD, but then again, if that's completely illegal, then rip :I

Spaghetti wrote:

Why not just do the character names? Custom difficulty names already indicate the map is an Extra anyways.

Isn't it only the highest SR diff that can have a custom name which is the problem?

It seems,

Akashi (Extra)
Kuroko (Extra
Aomine (Extra)
etc...

Is a more popular choice. Personally, I'm fine with both, but I agree with Lasse that this emphasizes the characters of each difficulty, while still making it obvious that these are no longer GD's as they don't follow the conventional GD format of _____'s Extra/Insane/Easy etc...

I'll make the update later, i'm going to leave it as is and see if anyone else wants to say anything before I make the change. Stuff like can be fixed easily, but I'd rather not rush things.

Monstrata wrote:

I don't believe maps should only be made to follow the music. Why do you play a map? Why don't you just listen to the song? Because you want something more than just the music. You want to enjoy the song through gameplay elements that highlight different aspects of the song. Mapping is it's own art form.

I disagree, i never preffered any kind of gimmicky style in comparison to one that is actually making use of the song itself.
What i want out of a Map is a CONSISTENT increase of difficulty that emphazises the music's feel&intensity.

In CTB we've seen a similar problem where people just begin to use the maps as a tool to create overly difficult pattering, that has
almost nothing to do with the actual song....and i just find that really frustating and annoying

Retarded 40 sec overmapped toddler map: SeemsGood
Map with different unique styles for each diff: DansGame

Kingkevin30 wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

I don't believe maps should only be made to follow the music. Why do you play a map? Why don't you just listen to the song? Because you want something more than just the music. You want to enjoy the song through gameplay elements that highlight different aspects of the song. Mapping is it's own art form.

I disagree, i never preffered any kind of gimmicky style in comparison to one that is actually making use of the song itself.
What i want out of a Map is a CONSISTENT increase of difficulty that emphazises the music's feel&intensity.

In CTB we've seen a similar problem where people just begin to use the maps as a tool to create overly difficult pattering, that has
almost nothing to do with the actual song....and i just find that really frustating and annoying

I can understand that being a bigger problem in CTB since there aren't many mappers there, however I believe such thing is not an issue in STD as there are many mappers that try to map to song than try to gimmick, and its nice to have both available, so I personally don't see a big issue since it technically doesn't hurt anyone in STD.

Maybe you could name the diffs like this: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/683576 ?

The fact of the matter is, Monstrata, you're arguing for sensible points that you don't actually follow yourself. It's perfectly fine to carry a concept into a map that you feel applies well to the music and enhances the track. There are hundreds of maps that do this, the most simple of which are those with "slightly weird" difficulty settings. Hell, I've done it myself many times. There's nothing wrong with this and it's even a good thing to do.

But when you bring in several different gimmicks in several different difficulties that are completely unrelated, it becomes pretty obvious you're not actually relating them to the music itself. You're not "Showing different interpretations of the music", you're shoehorning in gimmicks without a single iota of respect or care for the music itself. These difficulties could be placed on any other "normal" song (intro, startup, buildup, drop, breakdown, outro format) and fit just as well (that is, poorly).

If you had one of these difficulties you could probably make the argument that you're just "having a special interpretation", but when you have seven completely different ones, it's pretty clear you're just enjoying throwing out some unrelated and irrelevant gimmicks. I just wish you'd be willing to actually talk it out instead of pulling out tissue-thin reasoning and doing your traditional "Mention something that's obviously right but when you actually relate it to the discussion at hand, it turns out it's entirely irrelevant" counter-modding.


This isn't unrankable, as there's never really been a rule against "blatant creativity", but it's kind of disappointing. I'd even be a fan if it was on something that wasn't a boring, generic as hell TV Size. But it's such a damn waste of concepts on music that doesn't even fit it. I was actually a fan of your concept behind Alien, and to an extent, quaver had a decent idea with poor, ignorant execution. But throwing all this stuff onto a random OP is beneath you, and the concepts are so irrelevant to the music (screw your anime-reference reasoning, srsly) it's saddening.

sukiNathan wrote:

cool ideas

Thanks!

DrVoorhees wrote:

Oh god I love this.

Thanks!

Frim4503 wrote:

looking forward to see this complete
i think this will be a great map

good luck monstrata
*shoot

Appreciate it!

sahuang wrote:

WoW
Would be great if this can be ranked later

Yea hopefully soon

Dashie wrote:

monstrata i love you for this <3

Hehe ;3

Desperate-kun wrote:

This concept is pretty great, best of luck with this!

Thanks for the support Desp!

RoseusJaeger wrote:

This is amazing

Glad you enjoyed it!

Kibbleru wrote:

cool concept

are these diff names okay though?

Looks like we gotta change the diff names though~

Xilver wrote:

sukiNathan wrote:

cool ideas

Akashi diff espeically is a really fitting/cool concept, good job c:

Glad you liked it! Akashi and Kuroko were my two favourite diffs to map . I think they were the most successful too haha

VINXIS wrote:

dam ths is gud

thnaks!

Owens wrote:

Man you have so much imagination ! That's incredible, best mapper. Good luck ranking this !
Btw, maybe you can rename diffs for, Aomine's Speed, Midorima's aim etc.. just an idea

Thanks! And yea, looks like i'll have to rename diffs a bit.

Yuii- wrote:

That symmetrical map is almost perfect. It was a very well executed style. Reminds me of some guy you know :^)

Looking forward to see what will be the final version of the extras!

Hehe thanks yuii ;3

-Tatsuo wrote:

that's a very good map imo
good luck on ranking this
btw it would be cool if somewhere would be written what style the maps are, it's kinda obvious but i think it would be cool

Thanks!! Yea i included them now~

F1r3tar wrote:

This is one of the few tv-size anime maps I actually like.

I'm honored

Pata-Mon wrote:

great mapset

Thanks~

-Yuni wrote:

this map is masterpiece wow you got my respect with this one, love the song as well.

>//< tyty

384059043 wrote:

Excellent! Where did you get the inspiration from lol

Heh, I guess the song + im a big fan of the anime/manga

smau5 wrote:

i never had so much fun playing a map! really cool, i hope it gets ranked.

Glad you enjoyed it!!

Brodogs wrote:

Just wanted to say this map is awesome.

Just wanted to say thanks!

Pata-Mon wrote:

I love this set
ganbare mons

tyty!!

DONJGER wrote:

I really like Kuroko's difficult even if it was hard to read. The gimmick of the map was very fun and interesting to play and i believe ar8 helps this. Just my two cents.

Thanks for the support ;3

Shiirn wrote:

The fact of the matter is, Monstrata, you're arguing for sensible points that you don't actually follow yourself. It's perfectly fine to carry a concept into a map that you feel applies well to the music and enhances the track. There are hundreds of maps that do this, the most simple of which are those with "slightly weird" difficulty settings. Hell, I've done it myself many times. There's nothing wrong with this and it's even a good thing to do.

But when you bring in several different gimmicks in several different difficulties that are completely unrelated, it becomes pretty obvious you're not actually relating them to the music itself. You're not "Showing different interpretations of the music", you're shoehorning in gimmicks without a single iota of respect or care for the music itself. These difficulties could be placed on any other "normal" song (intro, startup, buildup, drop, breakdown, outro format) and fit just as well (that is, poorly).

If you had one of these difficulties you could probably make the argument that you're just "having a special interpretation", but when you have seven completely different ones, it's pretty clear you're just enjoying throwing out some unrelated and irrelevant gimmicks. I just wish you'd be willing to actually talk it out instead of pulling out tissue-thin reasoning and doing your traditional "Mention something that's obviously right but when you actually relate it to the discussion at hand, it turns out it's entirely irrelevant" counter-modding.


This isn't unrankable, as there's never really been a rule against "blatant creativity", but it's kind of disappointing. I'd even be a fan if it was on something that wasn't a boring, generic as hell TV Size. But it's such a damn waste of concepts on music that doesn't even fit it. I was actually a fan of your concept behind Alien, and to an extent, quaver had a decent idea with poor, ignorant execution. But throwing all this stuff onto a random OP is beneath you, and the concepts are so irrelevant to the music (screw your anime-reference reasoning, srsly) it's saddening.

If you think concepts have to be tied only to music, then you are severely limiting yourself creatively. When we listen to music, we can draw from much more than just its musical context. We can consider for example, the lyrics, and their ability to provoke thought and ideas. We consider the contexts in which music is used. A song by itself may just be depressing, or yearnful, but when paired with a heartbreaking anime scene, it can move us to tears just by hearing the song. A song can make us nostalgic, perhaps it's an old song. The melody itself may not seem nostalgic, but when you consider the context of time, suddenly a song you heard as a kid growing up, becomes more poignant. The song may be drawn from a depressing anime, or a hopeful one. It may be drawn from a singer battling cancer, it may be a singer who is submitting to that cancer. BOOM BOOM SATELLITE's song "Lay your hands on me" was especially impactful to me in that sense, because I understood the context in which it was written. I hadn't even watched the anime, and already I had formed an emotional and empathetic connection to the song that was motivated by more than simply the song's melody and track.

The concepts found in this map are woven around the theme of anime-referencing, which you seem to just toss out. That's unfortunate. This is not any random OP, this OP is very important to the anime. The characters are all central to the anime too, and each gimmick accurate reflects the personalities, and strengths of each character. Unfortunately it's you that has the tissue-thin reasoning that gimmicks can only be influenced by music. Thanks for your concerns, but since you aren't willing to acknowledge anime-referencing, we won't be able to reach a consensus as that is the core of this entire mapset. Simply put, we don't agree on a fundamental level. I hope you'll consider deeper contexts, themes, motifs etc... in your future mapping. I was honestly looking forward to more creative and interesting things from you.

Just so happen to finish kuroko no basket recently so I can relate
I really love what you have done with this map (I read Difficulty Guide!! haven't play tested yet)

That's a lot of flowery bullshit you got there, but you're still forcing your impressions on the player by intentionally warping the purpose of the map to form your own creative purposes, completely out of touch with the music itself. I'm going to fundamentally disagree with that concept because I feel that we should be working with the music, not treating it as a tool only to be exploited for our personal impressions.

I have no personal issue with the actual concepts in the map, they're heavy-handed as shit but they're executed as well as you could make them without making them unplayable piles of garbage. I just disagree with your reasoning behind forcing the player to go on your ride -

This map is not "Can Do", it's "Monstrata's gimmick mania centered around a basketball TV size". If you fundamentally cannot see any problem with the fact that this map is entirely about you and that I personally find it disrespectful to make the map all about your decision to base the map around these gimmicks, then that's fine. I can respect your decision. I just want it to be clear.

The difficulty naming conventions should be cleared up, and while I wish you could additionally add in the concept the difficulty is based around, I feel like [Perfectionist Extra - "Midorima"] or whatever would be really long-winded and dumb.

The map is about Akashi, Kuroko, Murasakibara, Aomine, Kise, Midorima, and Kagami, since they mapped it. Cya~

Considered adding any difficulty for some of the odd ball players? I don't remember the names but there was that guy who always caught rebounds and nobody could understand a word he said, the team that pretty much caused people to foul them selves not sure how you could map around it but just 2 examples, ahhh don't forget the shot's Aomin made from behind and at the side of the basket with some strange angles

"The map is about Akashi, Kuroko, Murasakibara, Aomine, Kise, Midorima, and Kagami, since they mapped it. Cya~"

Or an Entirely new map set on a different outro or intro

The problem with adding more characters is first of all, that it would require a lot more difficulties than I'd want to do xP. Also, If i add more characters, it would make the set really inconsistent. Like if I added one support character, why didn't I add another? Why did I add Hyuuga but not say Takao or someone? It's best to just stick to the main characters.

MONSTRATA CAN DO IIIIIIT!

Ayy bubbled again, I'm happy to see. I hope we can get this creative beatmap back to getting ranked

Good luck with getting this ranked monstrata!

isopaharuntikka wrote:

Maybe you could name the diffs like this: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/683576 ?

This looks cool.