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kors k feat.RIRE - Nirvana(Camellia's "BinaryHeaven" Remix)

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Topic Starter
Shiirn
general reply: I don't really care about "slider ends on strong beats" - The "strong beats" are simply markers where each measure begins, they're not actually all that significant to the rhythm contained within. Ignoring them in favor of the "offbeat" rhythm s something I elected to do.

New combos for slider velocity changes are unnecessary, especially in a song such as this.

i applied most of the overlap/polish suggestions, but i'm content with the current playability of most of the patterns, anti-flow included.
Yunomi
sick bg hunni
Rapthorn
ok i want fetish to stop abusing me so here goes
  • General
  1. all good
  2. omg the bg is already in a qualified map you cant rannk it noww!!

  • rising above something to a superior state
  1. 01:31:621 (1,2) - These are the only really overlapping objects in the whole section, nitpicking sure but it kinda looks out of place
  2. 01:45:414 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - alright so these sliders abuse slider leniency way too much imo. To me they just feel really uncomfortable to play since you want to move your cursor at a straight 90 degree angle to where the sliders point. Doing what i did in the screenshot will still keep your expanding pentagon and keeping the star-ish jumps while making them more comfortable without abusing the sliders. knowing you youll still deny this either way so idk why i bothered
  3. 01:53:173 (1,2) - to me the wubs sound like they're on 01:53:173 (1,2) - and not 01:53:345 (2,3) - . Its much more quiet than the two before but i still think this has more reason to be a slider than 01:53:518 (3) - has
  4. 02:06:449 (3) - you're clearly following the wubby noises here but 02:06:449 (3) - this isnt a slider for some reason while 02:06:793 (2) - this is. 02:09:207 (1,2) - you mapped it correctly here so im assuming its a mistake or smth
  5. 02:15:242 (2,3) - The two beats here arent really emphasized at all, but you emphasize 02:13:862 (2,3) - , 02:14:552 (2,3) - 02:20:069 (2,3) - etc, why?
  6. 02:17:828 (4,5,6) - You accelerate quite a bit on these notes only to have 02:18:345 (7) - very close to the slider before, with the 7 being the strongest beat of the bunch id space it a bit more to make it easier to play properly
  7. 02:30:414 (2,3) - This is a really strong beat but the jumps are extremely close and then you choose to space 02:30:587 (3,4) - these more? why?
  8. 02:31:793 (2,3) - ^
  9. 03:41:276 (1,1) - Honestly the spacing between these two confused me a lot every time i played it, they're close enough together in the timeline to not make the player break but i always end up clicking too early on the slider because of the already sudden movement change with the jump. It looks like the stream continues when it doesnt. Id either move the slider further away from 03:41:276 (1) - or stack them somehow
  10. 03:43:345 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - These feel fucking amazing to hit so good job there
  11. 03:44:035 (1) - tfw not properly spaced between 03:43:949 (4,1) - would NOT rank this bad map
  12. 04:08:345 (1,2) - same as 01:53:173 (1,2) -
  13. 04:10:069 (2,1) - Im probably missing something here but the main wubs are these 04:10:069 (2,1) - and you choose to mirror these 04:10:242 (1,2) - beats when id mirror the two before.
  14. 04:10:587 (3,2) - Pointing out too many things here so im probably missing the rhythm you're following but why is the last one here a slider and not the first? The measures after have pretty much the same rhythm and there you map it like im explaining
  15. 05:04:035 (1) - gj fetish
Stjpa
This map is pretty neat because it's just so different than all the other Camellia maps that basically look and play the same. Good job at that. :v

And first of all, I suck at modding extras so modding a map of you will probably don't help at all xd


  1. 00:38:345 (2,3) - Imo this kickslider feels kinda out of place because I don't really understand why you would put a kickslider directly next to it's next object that even has a strong sound on it (actually just an hitsound but whatever) while normal 1/2 patterns have normal distance.
  2. 00:45:414 (3) - Is there a purpose behind this slider being the only 3/4 in this section? I just assume it's not because of the vocals since you ignored them later on.
  3. 00:58:345 (6) - I'd actually like to have the slidertail here clickable because you start following a more audible rhythm here so it would be a better transition into that.
  4. 01:10:242 (3,4) - 01:10:931 (1,2) - It bothers me that the distance between these objects is way smaller compared to all the other ones even though it's the same snare with the same volume.
  5. 01:28:001 (3) - It's fine that you undermap these sounds by just using 1/2 + triplet and so on but it's really weird that you "overmapped" this circle because it's already that quiet that it's not giving any feedback anymore while playing. If you listen closely to it you will notice that there's a silence at exactly this object.
  6. 01:34:380 (1,2,3) - 01:38:518 (1,2,3) - Considering that they have a way stronger sound on them than all the other usual objects it feels quiet odd that they still use the same spacing. It just doesn't feel right by only emphasizing them with a different placement.
  7. 02:13:345 (3) - I actually dislike the volume of the whistles you used here, mind making them a bit quieter so the music itself is actually audible too? lol
  8. 03:48:345 (2) - For what reason are you not using this slidershape for the wub sounds properly? This one does it right but I don't really see a reason to use it 03:48:173 (1) - here when 03:48:690 (2) - has a way better fitting sound for that.
  9. 03:50:026 (2,3) - After some testing it feels way more natual by placing it on the 1/8 snap before because the vocals actually start there.
  10. 04:00:069 (4,5) - I'd personally space them slightly more because it isn't only weird to play this way but also kinda hard to read since it's an unexpectable pattern because you never used one like this before. And since this whole section is fast and has some spacing it would definitely feel better.
  11. 04:29:207 (1,2,3,4) - I don't think a 1/8 sliderspam would be that bad. Wouldn't change anything gameplay wise but fit better to the music.
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Yunomi wrote:

sick bg hunni
i wasn't aware, please forgive
yeah i'm keeping mine since it's not cropped horribly

Rapthorn wrote:

ok i want fetish to stop abusing me so here goes
  • General
  1. all good
  2. omg the bg is already in a qualified map you cant rannk it noww!! see response

  • rising above something to a superior state
  1. 01:31:621 (1,2) - These are the only really overlapping objects in the whole section, nitpicking sure but it kinda looks out of place k
  2. 01:45:414 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - alright so these sliders abuse slider leniency way too much imo. To me they just feel really uncomfortable to play since you want to move your cursor at a straight 90 degree angle to where the sliders point. Doing what i did in the screenshot will still keep your expanding pentagon and keeping the star-ish jumps while making them more comfortable without abusing the sliders. knowing you youll still deny this either way so idk why i bothered fwiw i agree
  3. 01:53:173 (1,2) - to me the wubs sound like they're on 01:53:173 (1,2) - and not 01:53:345 (2,3) - . Its much more quiet than the two before but i still think this has more reason to be a slider than 01:53:518 (3) - has these are circle/sliders based on the kicks as well as the wubs, they're fine as-is
  4. 02:06:449 (3) - you're clearly following the wubby noises here but 02:06:449 (3) - this isnt a slider for some reason while 02:06:793 (2) - this is. 02:09:207 (1,2) - you mapped it correctly here so im assuming its a mistake or smth I'm not fetish but it's clear he understands the purpose of combining the kicks and the wubs together rather than focusing on one or the other
  5. 02:15:242 (2,3) - The two beats here arent really emphasized at all, but you emphasize 02:13:862 (2,3) - , 02:14:552 (2,3) - 02:20:069 (2,3) - etc, why? Because, as the final four beats of the musical pattern, they are weaker, and thus they're "emphasized" less. It's really just got to do with tempo and movement.
  6. 02:17:828 (4,5,6) - You accelerate quite a bit on these notes only to have 02:18:345 (7) - very close to the slider before, with the 7 being the strongest beat of the bunch id space it a bit more to make it easier to play properly Again, this has to do with tempo. The exact movements aren't what's important, but the way the pattern is shaped. 7 is in the best spot possible to tie the shape together, rather than being spaced way far out.
  7. 03:41:276 (1,1) - Honestly the spacing between these two confused me a lot every time i played it, they're close enough together in the timeline to not make the player break but i always end up clicking too early on the slider because of the already sudden movement change with the jump. It looks like the stream continues when it doesnt. Id either move the slider further away from 03:41:276 (1) - or stack them somehowI mean if you're mashing like crazy then yeah you'll miss, but generally speaking when you're streaming you can easily tell which notes have a major beat on them (hint, it's the new combo), and you'll recognize that there's a pause on the last beat. I've not seen many playtests miss this stream at all, unless they were, of course, mashing rather than streaming.
  8. 03:43:345 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - These feel fucking amazing to hit so good job there
  9. 03:44:035 (1) - tfw not properly spaced between 03:43:949 (4,1) - would NOT rank this bad map
  10. 04:08:345 (1,2) - same as 01:53:173 (1,2) -
  11. 04:10:069 (2,1) - Im probably missing something here but the main wubs are these 04:10:069 (2,1) - and you choose to mirror these 04:10:242 (1,2) - beats when id mirror the two before.
  12. 04:10:587 (3,2) - Pointing out too many things here so im probably missing the rhythm you're following but why is the last one here a slider and not the first? The measures after have pretty much the same rhythm and there you map it like im explaining
  13. 05:04:035 (1) - gj fetish
rest of the stuff is either minor enough to fix, or follows the same vein of "combination of wubs and kicks rather than focusing on one or the other".


Stjpa wrote:

This map is pretty neat because it's just so different than all the other Camellia maps that basically look and play the same. Good job at that. :v

And first of all, I suck at modding extras so modding a map of you will probably don't help at all xd


  1. 00:45:414 (3) - Is there a purpose behind this slider being the only 3/4 in this section? I just assume it's not because of the vocals since you ignored them later on. cloooose. your eyes. well, it's a fairly thin reasoning but i like how it flows atm.
  2. 00:58:345 (6) - I'd actually like to have the slidertail here clickable because you start following a more audible rhythm here so it would be a better transition into that. I prefer the 1/1 hold over making it like 1/2 and a note, and making it 3/4 would just play weird. Sacrifices must be made.
  3. 01:10:242 (3,4) - 01:10:931 (1,2) - It bothers me that the distance between these objects is way smaller compared to all the other ones even though it's the same snare with the same volume.
  4. 01:28:001 (3) - It's fine that you undermap these sounds by just using 1/2 + triplet and so on but it's really weird that you "overmapped" this circle because it's already that quiet that it's not giving any feedback anymore while playing. If you listen closely to it you will notice that there's a silence at exactly this object This has more to do with simple patterning. In some cases, a missing beat in a track can be very jarring, especially when there's a weird rhythm moment directly after it. The player would lose all of their ability to keep rhythm based on the numbering and patterning of the notes. And then there are missing beats that should be emphasized very powerfully, which we do in the kiai sections with the momentum-killing pauses - the lack of a beat is thereby emphasized there because the rhythm is still very consistent and predictable and can be picked up very easily.
  5. 01:34:380 (1,2,3) - 01:38:518 (1,2,3) - Considering that they have a way stronger sound on them than all the other usual objects it feels quiet odd that they still use the same spacing. It just doesn't feel right by only emphasizing them with a different placement The slight change in slider velocity is emphasis enough for these beats. I may request the hitsound volume be lowered for them, though.
  6. 02:13:345 (3) - I actually dislike the volume of the whistles you used here, mind making them a bit quieter so the music itself is actually audible too? lol I want them quieter too lol
  7. 03:48:345 (2) - For what reason are you not using this slidershape for the wub sounds properly? This one does it right but I don't really see a reason to use it 03:48:173 (1) - here when 03:48:690 (2) - has a way better fitting sound for that This is for patterning, not following the wub sound perfectly.
  8. 03:50:026 (2,3) - After some testing it feels way more natual by placing it on the 1/8 snap before because the vocals actually start there. no
  9. 04:00:069 (4,5) - I'd personally space them slightly more because it isn't only weird to play this way but also kinda hard to read since it's an unexpectable pattern because you never used one like this before. And since this whole section is fast and has some spacing it would definitely feel better I'm already spaced enough since they're literally spaced at this point >_<
  10. 04:29:207 (1,2,3,4) - I don't think a 1/8 sliderspam would be that bad. Wouldn't change anything gameplay wise but fit better to the music. yeah sure i guess, i'll start putting 1/8 slider bits... =_= will do more later
Ascendance

Monstrata wrote:

You can't spell Transcendence without Ascendance.
don't speak that name around here.
Adiopulse
Adiopulse's #request Mod


Tranny
Change:
the short stream here should start earlier 02:34:380, del 02:34:121 (4)
03:38:518 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) the transition to longer spaced streams is a bit funky, also the trail is pretty bad, i would change it

Suggestion:
01:26:104 add another note going down http://puu.sh/qR3PL/ab927f282c.jpg then at 01:26:707 add a note at the same location as this note 01:26:276 (2) do the same for the following patterns, if you want something harder ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Weber
wew

00:15:931 (4,1) - These can curve around each other much cleaner
03:40:845 (4,1,2) - This curve here is a little fucking ridiculous

this map is goat except for fucking spaced jumpstreams fuck you fetish I know it was you nigga
Topic Starter
Shiirn
updated


did a lot of self-modding between me and fetish


bns pls i know there's like fuck all mods but we self-modded so hard LOL
EphemeralFetish
When your map is TOO good to get ranked because no-one can mod it.

Also add Nerova to tags
Weriko
:P Noob mod incomingssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


hope its not too noooobbbb

:)

ill send a star cuz... I need this ranked


the mod
00:04:380 (3,1) - I think you could make this in a different way, I know it is a blanket but it looks weird. if you do it then also try to do something here too 00:05:414 (1,2) - like another blanket or something

00:10:414 (4,1) - pretty sure you can do something more interesting instead of that

00:16:449 (1,1) - maybe stack instead of half overlapping? if you do then try to stack 00:17:655 (2,3) - while keeping the blanket with 00:17:138 (1,2) -

00:20:931 (3,1,2) - this looks blanketable??? not sure

00:44:724 (1,3) - I think end of 3 should be right in the middle of 1

00:48:690 (5,1) - not important but this might be confusing because you used triplet like this before, also I think 00:49:035 (1,2) - can go blanket

01:14:724 (6,3) - maybe ctrl g 6 and ctrl h and then stack with 3???

01:45:414 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - this growing thing looks interesting, but can be even more interesting

01:50:931 (1,1) - this emm... I like it but feels weird because of sv change

02:04:724 (1) - love this kind of slider

02:07:828 (2,1) - I don't know if it is the same as before... I guess it is

03:41:190 (4,1,1) - looks good but felt a bit weird

04:45:759 (3,4) - sorry for blanket police

05:04:035 (1) - woah.... a bit confusing(notthatitmatterscuzsv) but still love it



I think that's all for now!!!!! Hope something I said helps!!! cogh cogh.... gzgzgzgz dun read this


Good luck!!!! AND RANK IT :D
Topic Starter
Shiirn
couple things applied
Shiguma
01:56:449 (1,1) - https://puu.sh/r77l8/4aa75b1bd2.png
Going for that perfect overlap I see but this is pretty visible while going thru the map

02:17:655 (3,6) - Overlap on the sliderend of 02:16:793 (6) - ?

idk.

If you want, I can look thru the (whole) map, idk if this kind of stuff matters to you though.
Topic Starter
Shiirn
fixed the first by doing a good old ctrl+g double swap and putting the linear node of the second slider on the same x,y coordinate using the .osu #techniques (it was actually just 1 pixel off on the X axis, go figure)

not sure if its a kdable thing though, these were both 1-pixel fixes lol
Faust
Hi.


Transcendance:


Still feel the BG is way too out of place for this track.
Too heavy on the earthly palette, with the combo colors following suit.
Can't help but feel it contrasts against the song.

And the grid-size you're currently on makes it complete ass to modify slider lengths because of timeline-to-grid correlation but I'm just whining.


- 00:20:931 (3,4) - Totally fine, though why the pair of linear sliders ?

- 00:35:069 (1,3) - Alignment is actually off because the end-points aren't set straight or parallel.

- 00:39:897 (3,4,5,1) - Runs fine but I have to say it was very noticeable that there was a note that wasn't mapped on - 00:40:242 -

Why not just include it. Makes the rhythm whole in my opinion.

- 03:00:931 (4,5) - Don't really feel like these 2 should be obscured. This section makes me think about more prominence in clarity/field of vision.

- 03:42:655 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - Neat.

- 04:41:276 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Kind of running a risk here.

Could try getting - 04:41:276 (1,2,3,4) - to cut at a higher angle
while - 04:41:621 (1,2,3,4) - could be patterned to end 4 at the end-point of - 04:41:966 (1) -


That's about it. Not much to touch on.

Generally everyone here knows what they're doing.
It's just a small handful of fine points people might nudge you about, but ultimately I see most as arbitrary against the big picture.
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Faust wrote:

Hi.


Transcendance:


Still feel the BG is way too out of place for this track.
Too heavy on the earthly palette, with the combo colors following suit.
Can't help but feel it contrasts against the song.
oh well
And the grid-size you're currently on makes it complete ass to modify slider lengths because of timeline-to-grid correlation but I'm just whining.


- 00:20:931 (3,4) - Totally fine, though why the pair of linear sliders ? why not

- 00:35:069 (1,3) - Alignment is actually off because the end-points aren't set straight or parallel. fix

- 00:39:897 (3,4,5,1) - Runs fine but I have to say it was very noticeable that there was a note that wasn't mapped on - 00:40:242 - ok

Why not just include it. Makes the rhythm whole in my opinion.

- 03:00:931 (4,5) - Don't really feel like these 2 should be obscured. This section makes me think about more prominence in clarity/field of vision. ok

- 03:42:655 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - Neat. neat

- 04:41:276 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Kind of running a risk here. fetish has balls

Could try getting - 04:41:276 (1,2,3,4) - to cut at a higher angle
while - 04:41:621 (1,2,3,4) - could be patterned to end 4 at the end-point of - 04:41:966 (1) -


That's about it. Not much to touch on.

Generally everyone here knows what they're doing.
It's just a small handful of fine points people might nudge you about, but ultimately I see most as arbitrary against the big picture.
Anxient
because daddy shiirn told me to

transcendance
00:15:931 (4,1) - pls send fix :c http://puu.sh/r8GEZ/95a46bfe03.jpg
00:35:069 (1) - i cant tell if this is supposed to be 1/4 shorter or 1/4 longer. if its 1/2 shorter, fill in this 00:35:414 - pls. if its 1/4 longer, add a whistle to the sliderend. if it happens to be neither, delete the unused timing points.
00:58:173 (5,6) - pls blanket better ;c
01:05:242 (5) - why increase DS? keep it same ;c
01:25:759 (9,10,11,12,1) - whats with the sudden spike downwards? i dont hear anything in the song :c
01:28:518 (3) - have this face upwards? at this rate youll have me and a billion other players misreading this http://puu.sh/r8GWI/727caaf6e7.jpg
01:35:414 (7,8,1) - have (8) be closer to (7), coz emphasis is on (1), not (8).
01:50:931 (1,1) - oh damn this is some good shit. try making them align better? :/
01:53:000 - and simialr parts, why not map this one? feels empty without it :c what do you think of this? http://puu.sh/r8H8x/5b03cad2aa.jpg
02:24:035 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - it might be just me, but these jumps feel random :u. well, 02:25:587 (2) - pull this one a bit closer to (1) coz of emphasis and we'll be all good. i suggest x251 y188.
02:48:862 (1,2,3,4,1) - pls fix the blanket :c http://puu.sh/r8Hqa/3c800ca039.jpg
03:04:380 (2) - if this wasnt meant to be a blanket, maybe can make it less blankettish?
03:06:621 (5) - try doing something like this, coz the distance between 03:06:449 (4,5,1) - rn is kinda wonky because of emphasis. try doing something like this? http://puu.sh/r8Hy2/770315f392.jpg
03:19:552 - well this speed spike is kinda high. mind dropping it to 0.9x? imo its less jarring than 1.1x
03:37:828 (1,1) - this greatly triggers me. pls fix :cccc
03:50:242 (3) - compared to the other parts, this one lacks punch imo. try doing this? http://puu.sh/r8HK9/c07a2e78d8.jpg
04:08:173 - probably mentioned this before, but ill say it again just in case, why not map this part? i feel like the map could be made more interestign with this in the picture http://puu.sh/r8HPh/7fc3123b35.jpg. i mean this map is super jumpy and fun ;v but when it suddenly stops, kinda ruins the mood. well thats what i think anyway.
04:25:414 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - this part is relatively calm compared to the other parts, so maybe wanna pipe down the jumps? :d make em smaller i mean.
05:04:035 (1) - kreygasm

pls dont reject too many
Swiftis
First of all, this is my first time modding a map, so plz no hate and enjoy game :^)

00:02:655 (1) - This slider looks kinda weird, try to make it look more like this one: 00:08:173 (1)

01:39:724 (4,5,1) - Move the 4th circle above the 5th one. The 4th circle being on the side bothers me a bit :/

01:56:966 (1) - Again, this slider looks really weird.

02:27:483 (5) - Tune the top of the slider up by one tick, it matches the "wub wub" beat more in my opinion. Like this: http://puu.sh/r90VE/da0bafc706.jpg

02:56:449 (1) - Make that slider another circle? (like these: 02:53:690 (1) )

03:27:483 (1,2,1,2) - I don't like the idea of those jumps :/

03:49:552 (1) - You could also turn the buttom left slidertick down once, like I suggested before on another "wub wub" sound :3

03:49:552 (1) - Make these circles look like this: http://puu.sh/r8Z5H/ca350247ff.jpg

04:01:966 (1) - I don't like the look of this slider :/

04:39:552 (1,2,3,4) - Place these circles up a bit?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[b]That was everything I noticed, amazing work on the map so far! I wish you good luck on getting it ranked![b\]
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Anxient wrote:

because daddy shiirn told me to

transcendance
00:15:931 (4,1) - pls send fix :c http://puu.sh/r8GEZ/95a46bfe03.jpg Fuck that
00:35:069 (1) - i cant tell if this is supposed to be 1/4 shorter or 1/4 longer. if its 1/2 shorter, fill in this 00:35:414 - pls. if its 1/4 longer, add a whistle to the sliderend. if it happens to be neither, delete the unused timing points. This is intentioally short, the inherited points are in case we ever forcibly place a note there, so we don't forget there's suppose to be a ting sound there.
00:58:173 (5,6) - pls blanket better ;c oh my fucking god
01:05:242 (5) - why increase DS? keep it same ;c it fits better this way fuck ds
01:25:759 (9,10,11,12,1) - whats with the sudden spike downwards? i dont hear anything in the song :c It's just changing direction with the kick. There's no real momentum emphasis.
01:28:518 (3) - have this face upwards? at this rate youll have me and a billion other players misreading this http://puu.sh/r8GWI/727caaf6e7.jpg It's not my problem if people are so used to playing whack-a-mole that they don't pay attention to approach circles (or, if they play HD, fade timers)
01:35:414 (7,8,1) - have (8) be closer to (7), coz emphasis is on (1), not (8). Emphasis actually is on 7 and 8 at the same time, tho.
01:50:931 (1,1) - oh damn this is some good shit. try making them align better? :/ it's practically perfect already wtfffff
01:53:000 - and simialr parts, why not map this one? feels empty without it :c what do you think of this? This has been mentioned before. I will not be changing this. The music has no beat here. The pause is part of the music.
02:24:035 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - it might be just me, but these jumps feel random :u. well, 02:25:587 (2) - pull this one a bit closer to (1) coz of emphasis and we'll be all good. i suggest x251 y188. Jumps are based on kicks and bass, but that one was off so fixed
02:48:862 (1,2,3,4,1) - pls fix the blanket :c http://puu.sh/r8Hqa/3c800ca039.jpg ok
03:04:380 (2) - if this wasnt meant to be a blanket, maybe can make it less blankettish? ok
03:06:621 (5) - try doing something like this, coz the distance between 03:06:449 (4,5,1) - rn is kinda wonky because of emphasis. try doing something like this? http://puu.sh/r8Hy2/770315f392.jpg it's fine
03:19:552 - well this speed spike is kinda high. mind dropping it to 0.9x? imo its less jarring than 1.1x it's fine
03:37:828 (1,1) - this greatly triggers me. pls fix :cccc ok
03:50:242 (3) - compared to the other parts, this one lacks punch imo. try doing this? http://puu.sh/r8HK9/c07a2e78d8.jpg it's fine, there shouldn't be that much punch on these anyway
04:08:173 - probably mentioned this before, but ill say it again just in case, why not map this part? i feel like the map could be made more interestign with this in the picture http://puu.sh/r8HPh/7fc3123b35.jpg. i mean this map is super jumpy and fun ;v but when it suddenly stops, kinda ruins the mood. well thats what i think anyway. The pause is part of the music. Adding something there would be saying that the music is wrong to pause there. I'd be disagreeing with the music itself, which is inherently a shitty concept.
04:25:414 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - this part is relatively calm compared to the other parts, so maybe wanna pipe down the jumps? :d make em smaller i mean. it's fine
05:04:035 (1) - kreygasm

pls dont reject too many

Swiftis wrote:

First of all, this is my first time modding a map, so plz no hate and enjoy game :^) Maybe nirvana was a poor choice of first mod, and maybe shiirn was a poor choice for first modd-ee. xD i'll try to explain myself.

00:02:655 (1) - This slider looks kinda weird, try to make it look more like this one: 00:08:173 (1) This slider is simply curving off of the normal path of the previous ones. The next one is a standard, normal wave. So they're completely different on purpose.

01:39:724 (4,5,1) - Move the 4th circle above the 5th one. The 4th circle being on the side bothers me a bit :/ The slight curve is intentional. Putting the 4 above would make the entire movement a single circle and that's not what I want.

01:56:966 (1) - Again, this slider looks really weird. They're meant to curve with the previous ones and "explode out" with the wub sound.

02:27:483 (5) - Tune the top of the slider up by one tick, it matches the "wub wub" beat more in my opinion. Like this: http://puu.sh/r90VE/da0bafc706.jpg It's fine like this, these kinds of tiny changes are insignificant in terms of what the player feels and this would make the slider shape uneven.

02:56:449 (1) - Make that slider another circle? (like these: 02:53:690 (1) ) disagree, it's fine as-is

03:27:483 (1,2,1,2) - I don't like the idea of those jumps :/ they're not even really jumps. They're just paired notes, which fits the musical pattern.

03:49:552 (1) - You could also turn the buttom left slidertick down once, like I suggested before on another "wub wub" sound :3 This is just for the slider shape, the slider shape is largely independent of actually following the wub, they're focused more on representing them with a specific shape.

03:49:552 (1) - Make these circles look like this: http://puu.sh/r8Z5H/ca350247ff.jpg It's fine this way.

04:01:966 (1) - I don't like the look of this slider :/ I like it! :(

04:39:552 (1,2,3,4) - Place these circles up a bit? I don't really see any reason to. They're currently spaced very consistently and that's important due to their jumpstream nature.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That was everything I noticed, amazing work on the map so far! I wish you good luck on getting it ranked!
Shiguma

Shiguma wrote:

I can look thru the (whole) map
I'm dumb
00:16:449 (1,1) - Not overlapped completely on purpose?

00:44:035 (3) - Having this as a reverse 1/4th slider would sound pretty nice

00:47:138 (6,7,1) - The slider at 00:47:483 (1) - has a decent amount more spacing than 00:47:138 (6,7) - and it seems like its slightly awkward to land. Maybe push 00:47:483 (1) - to the left a bit?

00:58:173 (5,6) - Pixel fix https://puu.sh/r9TrS/0e41d5d147.png

01:15:759 (3) - Perhaps overlap the sliderhead with 01:14:724 (6) - as well for more impact

01:31:966 (2) - Pretty close to 01:31:621 (1) - and touching 01:31:449 (7) - not sure if that's on purpose https://puu.sh/r9TGc/22eb1daf6b.png Could be like this (Not saying to do it like this but wanted to show what I was thinking)

Overlap 01:36:018 (2,5) - these perhaps idk (prob not)

The buzz 01:40:931 (6) - here is lost because of this 01:40:759 (4,5) - what I mean is there is no emphasis for 01:40:931 (6) - because of the triple. Compare to what you did here 01:41:966 (3,4,5) - which works nicely (you basically did it everywhere except that part)

01:45:414 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Nice pattern. Took me a second to realize they play really well when you think of them as circles instead of sliders. I like it!

01:53:518 (3) - Do a ctrl + j and overlap the end with the others like this: https://puu.sh/r9Ugf/a12297bb4d.png ?

01:58:173 (1) - Move this so it looks fuckin sick with 01:56:793 (2,3) - because right now 01:58:173 (1) - has less spacing than 01:56:793 (2,3) and it feels cramped or w.e.

01:59:724 (1) - Overlap with head of 01:59:207 (1) - ?

02:04:207 (1,2,3,1) - :D really nice

02:05:931 (2) - I'm assuming because of the sound here it's not a copypaste of 02:05:759 (1) - ? But then 02:07:138 (1,2) - these are copy paste

02:26:621 (2) - I feel like this should overlap 02:25:932 (4) - because you overlapped 02:26:449 (1) - with 02:26:793 (1) -

02:29:207 (4) - Seems noticeable that it isn't perfect overlap with 02:28:518 (1) -

02:30:587 (3) - My mouse wants to move to the sliderend of 02:29:897 (3) - err... rather 02:30:242 (1,2,3,4,1) - this entire thing seems off with the hitsounds and everything. 02:30:587 (3) - Has the strong clap sound but there is no jump? 02:30:759 (4) - Is aesthetic in this 02:30:242 (1,2,3,4) - combo, but it doesn't make sense for it's actual spacing/emphasis

02:31:621 (1,2,3,4) - same as ^ Compare with 02:28:518 (1,2,3,4) - and hopefully I'll make some sense :p

02:35:069 (1) - Move this here? https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6085365

03:41:276 (1) - Why does this go to the right instead of the left lol https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6085388

03:46:104 (4,2) - Turn down stack leniency? :P

03:53:949 (2) - Overlap with 03:52:828 (3) - ?

03:56:965 (5) - Either make this move an even distance as 03:55:587 (1,1) - are doing, or overlap with sliderend of 03:55:931 (1) -

04:14:724 (3,1) - hmm.... https://puu.sh/r9VKa/0d5fc03268.png

04:40:931 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - It's perfectly readable, but idk...

04:48:518 (3,1) - https://puu.sh/r9VQT/0acd5fa2d5.png lul

05:04:035 (1) - :D

That's all, great map :)
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Shiguma wrote:

Shiguma wrote:

I can look thru the (whole) map
I'm dumb
00:16:449 (1,1) - Not overlapped completely on purpose? yep on purpose

00:44:035 (3) - Having this as a reverse 1/4th slider would sound pretty nice i hear the beat but don't think it's really that worth emphasizing

00:47:138 (6,7,1) - The slider at 00:47:483 (1) - has a decent amount more spacing than 00:47:138 (6,7) - and it seems like its slightly awkward to land. Maybe push 00:47:483 (1) - to the left a bit? sure

00:58:173 (5,6) - Pixel fix https://puu.sh/r9TrS/0e41d5d147.png sure

01:15:759 (3) - Perhaps overlap the sliderhead with 01:14:724 (6) - as well for more impact sure

01:31:966 (2) - Pretty close to 01:31:621 (1) - and touching 01:31:449 (7) - not sure if that's on purpose https://puu.sh/r9TGc/22eb1daf6b.png Could be like this (Not saying to do it like this but wanted to show what I was thinking) made to not touch for neatness

Overlap 01:36:018 (2,5) - these perhaps idk (prob not) sure

The buzz 01:40:931 (6) - here is lost because of this 01:40:759 (4,5) - what I mean is there is no emphasis for 01:40:931 (6) - because of the triple. Compare to what you did here 01:41:966 (3,4,5) - which works nicely (you basically did it everywhere except that part) kind of disagree here

01:45:414 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Nice pattern. Took me a second to realize they play really well when you think of them as circles instead of sliders. I like it! uguuuuuuu

01:53:518 (3) - Do a ctrl + j and overlap the end with the others like this: https://puu.sh/r9Ugf/a12297bb4d.png ? sure

01:58:173 (1) - Move this so it looks fuckin sick with 01:56:793 (2,3) - because right now 01:58:173 (1) - has less spacing than 01:56:793 (2,3) and it feels cramped or w.e. sure

01:59:724 (1) - Overlap with head of 01:59:207 (1) - ? sure

02:04:207 (1,2,3,1) - :D really nice sure

02:05:931 (2) - I'm assuming because of the sound here it's not a copypaste of 02:05:759 (1) - ? But then 02:07:138 (1,2) - these are copy paste this is due to slight musical differences, they're not paired patterns here but the second one is a pair pattern

02:26:621 (2) - I feel like this should overlap 02:25:932 (4) - because you overlapped 02:26:449 (1) - with 02:26:793 (1) - disagree, but changed the pattern a bit anyway

02:29:207 (4) - Seems noticeable that it isn't perfect overlap with 02:28:518 (1) - THIS WAS LITERALLY 1 PIXEL DUDE

02:30:587 (3) - My mouse wants to move to the sliderend of 02:29:897 (3) - err... rather 02:30:242 (1,2,3,4,1) - this entire thing seems off with the hitsounds and everything. 02:30:587 (3) - Has the strong clap sound but there is no jump? 02:30:759 (4) - Is aesthetic in this 02:30:242 (1,2,3,4) - combo, but it doesn't make sense for it's actual spacing/emphasis

02:31:621 (1,2,3,4) - same as ^ Compare with 02:28:518 (1,2,3,4) - and hopefully I'll make some sense :p stuff

02:35:069 (1) - Move this here? https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6085365 sure

03:41:276 (1) - Why does this go to the right instead of the left lol https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6085388 nah

03:46:104 (4,2) - Turn down stack leniency? :P i like stacks tho

03:53:949 (2) - Overlap with 03:52:828 (3) - ? sure

03:56:965 (5) - Either make this move an even distance as 03:55:587 (1,1) - are doing, or overlap with sliderend of 03:55:931 (1) - sure

04:14:724 (3,1) - hmm.... https://puu.sh/r9VKa/0d5fc03268.png hahahaha

04:40:931 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - It's perfectly readable, but idk...

04:48:518 (3,1) - https://puu.sh/r9VQT/0acd5fa2d5.png lul sure

05:04:035 (1) - :D

That's all, great map :)
Alheak
helo

  1. 00:48:862 - any reason why you're skipping those? From what i understand you're following the bell-like sounds as well as the little synth beeps in the background, but there's clearly a small beep here, I'd suggest at least mapping a 1/2 slider instead.
    More importantly, this rhythm is unexpected as it skips a major downbeat, and the spacing you're using here is not really helping with reading that. You're suggesting to the player that you're using the distance/time equality rule aka DS for this section, but suddenly decide otherwise on 00:56:793 (5,6,1) - and such, for no discernable reason in my opinion since you have the same note at 00:56:104 - and 00:56:449 - which aren't emphasized and sometimes even end up on slider ends.
    All of this isn't that big of a deal, but would benefit a lot from being investigated, also I would suggest avoiding obtuse angles if you were to keep jumps like 00:56:793 (5,6,1) - . Obtuse angles create a sort of linear flow which is generally harder to read, play and anticipate, especially with this spacing configuration.
    Of course this applies for the whole section.
  2. 01:48:949 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - could blanket 01:50:069 (1) - better, would look great to have an evenly round shape here.
  3. 01:50:069 (1,2) - somehow it feels weird to play those, first one isn't really mapped to anything even if i get your intent, second is mapped to something which would be better represented by a slider. I'd either drop those, or put a spinner ending on 01:50:069 -
    01:52:828 (2,1) - there are no hints that helps the player notice this sudden change in rhythm, moreover, you're skipping quite an important beat on 01:53:000 - .
  4. 01:58:345 (2,1) - ^
  5. 01:53:690 (1,2,1,2) - all this linear flow is quite awkward to play
  6. 02:04:207 (1) - not sure the NC here is a wise decision here, first because it's on a red tick, second because it would rather indicate a change in rhythm (to 1/3 for ex) instead of a wider spacing, and lastly because it blends (1) with (3) color-wise, making the whole thing harder to read.
  7. 02:09:379 (2,1) - etc etc
  8. 02:13:518 (4,1,2) - awkward linear flow, plus (1,2) is more accentuated than (4,1) even though the strong beat is on (1)
  9. 02:15:414 (3,4,1) - ^
  10. 03:27:483 (1,2,1,2) - you're giving up this pattern really quickly, even though the song doesn't change much except in intensity. It would make more sense to continue this pattern instead of placing random circles 03:28:173 (1,2,3,4) - . This doesn't mean you have to give up the build-up, just raise the spacing, but keep the pairs.
  11. 03:38:518 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - More intensity, yet you're giving up on the stream jumps every 5 notes?
  12. 04:22:914 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - more personal, but those could use a bit more spacing, try stream jumps like this, works quite well thanks to the back-n-forth flow:
  13. 04:33:690 (1,2,3,4,1) - ^
  14. There is an awful lot of badly used "linear" flow and weird spacing everywhere, and as a result the map plays quite awkwardly, and feels "slippery" because you have to constantly control your aim and be conscious of it (well, way more than usual). It's not really a question of being precise, but rather of constantly having to "reset" your momentum, and often in places you expect it the least. Especially in a wubs map, you'd rather focus on reading and letting your aim work for you, if that makes sense (though this part is mostly subjective).
    There are some example ^ earlier in the mod, a few more here: 02:16:449 (5,6,7,1) - 02:18:000 (5,6,7) - 01:52:828 (2,1) - 02:18:518 (1,1,2) - 02:27:828 (6,7,1) - etc
This last point is in my opinion quite important to the general playability of your map, but I agree that my explanation may be a bit lacking. Don't hesitate to catch me in game for precisions, though im not sure if i can develop my point more than this.

Good luck.
Topic Starter
Shiirn
we talked a bit on irc about modding concepts. i applied a lot of the aesthetic or tinier changes, but most of it was declined due to how this map is intended to be mapped for fun, rather than for "super easy playability". There are mapping concepts here outside of what is considered standard and that's simply because how I've always chosen to represent music therein - the choices are internally consistent, and that's all that should really matter.

worthwhile mod tho thanks
Luel Roseline
Small mod here.

[Notes]
00:15:931 (4,1) - blanket here. http://puu.sh/rgekT/cb45cdfd54.jpg
00:21:449 (4) - Move to 299, 52 http://puu.sh/rgesk/afd28f7860.jpg
00:28:000 (4) - Unsnapped circle (littlely)
00:56:621 (4) - Move to 105, 262 for good triangle.
00:56:793 (5) - 116, 185
Alheak
After having slept on it, there are some things we talked about on IRC I'd like to argue further.

I understand your point on conceptual mapping, on mapping for yourself instead of mapping for others, on the whole "what feels good vs what feels right" issue even if I don't entirely agree with it.
But what troubles me is that you said yourself that you don't even play anymore, and without questioning your experience of mapping, that sounds like what you're mapping doesn't fit anybody's expectations but yours, and that you yourself don't even play what you create.
It's possible that I may have misinterpreted this part, but then what is this "mapping for fun" you're talking about if you can't even enjoy what you create yourself?

I also think you're confusing the terms conceptual and technical, and while I respect your own interpretation of the song, there are some parts which I reported in my mod that play really awkwardly in random places, that don't fit the song and which don't seem voluntary since they're inconsistent throughout the map or the concerned section.
So even if I ignore the playability aspect of those patterns and how they feel to me, I am still left with some questionable and unjustified gameplay elements used at random places in your map, which should be a concerning issue.

I understand your take on mapping and its concepts, but it mostly sounds like a "I can never be wrong" approach to mapping, which is very dangerous not only in mapping but in every aspect of life as well.
I do not wish to make this a philosophical post, but sure, if you boil anything down to its simplest core, you're just left with "what seems right to me".
Nothing can be purely objective, especially in something as complex as mapping, but you must realize that there is a set of commonly accepted guidelines to mapping that you deliberately chose to ignore for your own selfish interests, ignoring with them a great majority of the community.
This selfishness is wrong because as stated earlier, you don't even seem to play what you create, and because by mapping (and especially ranking) you are providing for a community which should be your target audience. This is why mapping shouldn't not be about "what feels good vs what feels right", but rather an educated mix of those two concepts, and this is why modding is so important.
Modding can't fix concepts because they're personal preferences, but it can certainly take them into account, that much I agree with. But then what is "taken into account" worth if the whole other technical aspect of modding is ignored? Why do you think the community is constantly trying to understand and improve mapping, both in theory and practice, if we can just choose to ignore its technical aspect?

Mapping according to those guidelines does not mean you have to make your map "just like every other", easy to play, or "play naturally". It just means you should not ignore what all those years of mapping have taught us, that includes momentum, emphasis, flow, rhythm, aesthetics, etc.
You say you map "outside the norm". Sure okay, good for you, but modders are here to tell you when this choice doesn't work, and how it could work better. This doesn't mean you have to stick to the norm, but to consider their point and the fact that that maybe, the way you mapped things is flawed.
What do awkward linear flow and spacing add to the map? You said you wanted the player to concentrate more on reading, but ultimately how quick you are at reading those just depends on your skill, and those issues are more about feeling than reading anyway.

If you want to break the norm so badly, do it in a sensible way, and don't try to force it. The possibility for complex patterns in a map ultimately lies into the song itself.
As we have seen during those last years, wubs maps were at first very hard to read and people really struggled playing them for a long time, but they still played well if you could read them. Now they've pretty much become the norm, without losing one bit of their actual difficulty. We just got better.
Unfortunately, wubs songs have stayed mostly the same, and most ways of mapping them effectively have been tried already.
I'm not saying you shouldn't try to find some more, but I fear that what you have here just does not work.

That pretty much covers what I wanted to say, I may add some points if needed later.
Topic Starter
Shiirn
The long and short of it is; this map has set out everything it wants to do - it's fun, challenging, and fits the song in ways that me and Fetish agree with, to an extent. We've made concessions to eachother in certain parts because we respect eachother's decisions and understand that playing-wise it's not all that impactful in a negative matter at all.

I've not seen a single playtester on this map ever call it anything but "pretty good". They either found it played normally, or it was a refreshing change that didn't smack them in the face. It was, and is, different without being difficult. I use extensive playtesting (and experience watching playtesters and how they play/react - seriously there's a ton of tells) as well as experience and knowledge to supplement (or replace) personal playtesting (which, objectively speaking, is what you said was necessary). There were a small number of players who struggled with some concepts (shout out to logic agent who still fails the perfectly overlapping slider bits) but invariably there wasn't any real commentary towards "the feel" of the map other than it being different, and their movements followed what I want them to be.

I fail to see why your disagreement renders your opinion of higher value than my own on my own map, especially when I've explained logically and reasonably as to what my ideals and concepts are. You're not exactly a stellar player yourself, so you've got to have some sort of experience and knowledge backing you - but it appears it's vastly inferior to mine.

People armchair editor too much nowadays. Back in my day (waves cane) I was an outright oddity because I always struggled to play my own maps and I wasn't ever really capable of playing this game well due to X or Y reason. But now, it seems like it's the norm that experienced mappers aren't necessarily that good at playing the game, much less modders.


And that leads to mappers needing to satisfy other mappers - it's a feedback loop where people jerk off over concepts that are theoretically relevant but are horrifically overblown and really don't have the impact they claim it does. I'm sickened by the amount of psuedo-science bullshit people are willing to throw around, and further irritated by how much impact they claim these concepts have on the player.


All a map needs to do is consistently follow the music's rhythm, with creative liberties applied for the mapper to use their own interpretation. Everything else is just gravy. "Rankability" is a standard that's always been peer-oriented (see: the east's tolerance for what west would consider complete crap) and is just as subjective in the end.



tl;dr you're overblowing the fuck out of some shitty concepts that only need to be considered up to a certain point, after that go nuts. This map isn't that special. It's not that great. It's a cool map. It doesn't need to be perfect in every single person's eyes. It never will be. And I don't care if it's not perfect in your eyes, or even if it's really any good at all. It's fine.
Ambient

Shiirn wrote:

I've not seen a single playtester on this map ever call it anything but "pretty good". They either found it played normally, or it was a refreshing change that didn't smack them in the face. It was, and is, different without being difficult. I use extensive playtesting (and experience watching playtesters and how they play/react - seriously there's a ton of tells) as well as experience and knowledge to supplement (or replace) personal playtesting (which, objectively speaking, is what you said was necessary). There were a small number of players who struggled with some concepts (shout out to logic agent who still fails the perfectly overlapping slider bits) but invariably there wasn't any real commentary towards "the feel" of the map other than it being different, and their movements followed what I want them to be.

Alheak wrote:

As we have seen during those last years, wubs maps were at first very hard to read and people really struggled playing them for a long time, but they still played well if you could read them. Now they've pretty much become the norm, without losing one bit of their actual difficulty. We just got better.
Unfortunately, wubs songs have stayed mostly the same, and most ways of mapping them effectively have been tried already.
I'm not saying you shouldn't try to find some more, but I fear that what you have here just does not work.
Literally every "wub" map is hard, this in particular, is hard. Look at any high SR wub map and there will be sections in it which are bloody hard. From a players stand-point, (since I couldn't mod this map at all) there are MANY sections which are HARD but emphasize the song/rhythm/beat well. And honestly it comes down to who mapped the song and their interpretation of the music made up of Circles, Sliders, and Spinners.

If you've played the map 10 times over it starts to fit together and you get a good "feel" of the rhythm. Like Shiirn said, he and Fetish have seen many people play it and they can deduct from that, (the players experience) changes to be needed. Honestly if you can play it, great! You'll have a better understanding of the song/map, if not? Oh well, i think experience in playing the map helps out a lot.

tl;dr It plays better the more you play it and that's what makes this map different.
Shiguma
Played through it, felt like 04:41:276 (1,2,3,4) - should be curved
03:37:483 (1,2,3,4) - Felt like this should go something along the lines of this: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6148922 (maybe)
03:43:000 (1,2,3,4) - this was something that definitely felt off playing with that angle

I'd at least take a look at the first and third things I mentioned and maybe change them slightly to make it less awkward

Everything else plays pretty good tbh (imo of course)

no kd obviously
Topic Starter
Shiirn
rip bns
Seijiro
Hi, I'm rip

irc logs
00:02 Shiirn: bns h8 me
00:02 Shiirn: :(
00:02 Shiirn: nice lecture btw
00:02 MrSergio: I have a feeling it wasn't that great tho lol
00:03 Shiirn: mmm
00:03 MrSergio: and about BNs, idk
00:03 Shiirn: hitsounding is a complex thing
00:03 Shiirn: the super basics are, well, super basic
00:03 MrSergio: I do my part in #modreqs so I barely look anywhere else
00:03 Shiirn: but moving past that is tough to explain in a short, public lecture
00:03 MrSergio: heh
00:03 MrSergio: I alread explained that to my mentee before that lecture
00:03 MrSergio: and it was aroun 1h and a half
00:04 MrSergio: so rip
00:04 MrSergio: without all the theory and the knowledge about the editor is kinda hard to make it short too
00:05 MrSergio: drop me the map you need a check on, I might do it soon enough
00:05 Shiirn: it's still nirvana
00:05 Shiirn: :(
00:06 MrSergio: got it
00:20 MrSergio: ok, small stuff, and personal as usual
00:20 Shiirn: o?
00:20 Shiirn: OH YOU MEANT NOW
00:20 Shiirn: WOW
00:20 MrSergio: 01:26:276 (2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3) - using same spacing as 01:25:414 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - feels a bit strange, maybe reduce spacing between those triplets, since the song becomes quieter
00:20 Shiirn: im memeing atm give me a sec
00:20 *Shiirn is editing AiRI - DREAMxSCRAMBLE [Shiirn's Extra]
00:21 MrSergio: lmao
00:21 Shiirn: im down to lower the spacing of thos triples yeah
00:22 Shiirn: here hold on to this: 116|303
00:22 Shiirn: k
00:23 Shiirn: each triple in that line is 15% smaller
00:23 Shiirn: it has quite a nice effect
00:23 MrSergio: cool
00:24 MrSergio: 03:00:587 (3,4) - I just checked around 10 seconds ahead, but it looks like this one is the only one with such spacing
00:24 MrSergio: 03:03:345 (3,4) -
00:24 MrSergio: 03:06:104 (3,4) -
00:24 MrSergio: and such
00:24 Shiirn: ah you're right
00:24 Shiirn: it was more to stack under 2 but it is inconsistent
00:24 *Shiirn modifies
00:25 Shiirn: people are telling me those seconds are "weird" :( but they playsonice
00:26 MrSergio: 03:59:035 (2) - nice effect
00:26 MrSergio: I'd call it "fake SV change" lol
00:26 MrSergio: if it wasn't for the timeline I would have thought it is totally a SV, nice
00:26 Shiirn: that section is 1/6 specifically for the wuuuuubs
00:27 MrSergio: yeah
00:27 Shiirn: but they're short enough that 1/2 tapping won't cause 100s
00:27 Shiirn: 03:55:626 - starts here
00:28 MrSergio: 04:41:104 - damn, I'd die here, but it's objectively correct xD
00:28 Shiirn: yeah i mean
00:28 MrSergio: and it actually makes sense with the increasing emphasis of the song
00:28 Shiirn: fetish has said he's "okay with nerfing it but"
00:29 Shiirn: no bn has actually said
00:29 Shiirn: "nerf it and ill bubble"
00:29 Shiirn: so we've been sitting on it
00:29 MrSergio: well.. seeing the rest of the map, I feel like those jumps are easier than other parts
00:29 Shiirn: the 1/4 jumpstreams are easily the hardest part of the map, technically
00:29 MrSergio: and he didn't give you any options at all?
00:29 Shiirn: ?
00:29 MrSergio: I mean
00:30 MrSergio: "nerf them", but didn't he tell you "how"?
00:30 Shiirn: i mean i agree with fetish here, why change it for no reason when it's been shown to play fine by people capable of playing it
00:30 Shiirn: we'd probably change it to have slightly less jerking motions between the 4->1s
00:30 Shiirn: already it's pretty circular but the angles are rough
00:30 MrSergio: I'm pretty fine with the concept, but in general I hate playing these jump streams
00:31 MrSergio: objectively I agree with it, but a nerf could be indeed nice
00:31 Shiirn: mmm personally i think jump streams are artificial difficulty (shut up reanimate) but I can agree with the concept here
00:31 Shiirn: but like i said, BNs have either A) refused to look at the map at all or B) have more than just that stream that makes the map "too hard" for them to mod
00:31 Shiirn: like stjpa was uncomfortable with other parts as well
00:32 MrSergio: I guess I'll give it a second look then, but idk, I didn't notice it till now
00:32 Shiirn: if we had a BN actually say "i think a nerf is in order, i'm fine iconning afterwards" we'd do it
00:32 MrSergio: maybe I should sleep...
00:32 Shiirn: well i mean
00:33 Shiirn: BNs like stjpa and ezek and other...
00:33 Shiirn: "can't mod 6*"
00:33 MrSergio: 05:04:035 (1) - holy shit
00:33 Shiirn: ISN'T IT PRETTY
00:33 *MrSergio claps*
00:33 Shiirn: but yeah in my personal opinion
00:34 Shiirn: yeah the jump streams need some nerfin' as they're a very big diff spike
00:34 Shiirn: but me and fetish agreed to wait until a bn mentioned it
00:37 MrSergio: nerf just 04:40:931 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - and we're good to go imo
00:37 Shiirn: aire
00:37 Shiirn: lemme signal fetish
00:37 *Shiirn goes to get the floodlights and lingerie
00:38 MrSergio: lmao
00:38 MrSergio: well, in case you nerf that part you probably need to adjust spacing for the previous jumps a little too, idk
00:38 MrSergio: but anyway, I guess you know what you want in your map =3=
00:39 Shiirn: yeah we'll figure it out real fast
00:39 Shiirn: the previous notes shouldn't need too much fiddling
00:40 MrSergio: btw, [http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6288300 this] may be misleading
00:40 Shiirn: wha
00:40 MrSergio: I thought it was going to the left, but it went to the right
00:40 MrSergio: seeing the area of the slider follow circle, it could be fine anyway, but people will start drama as always
00:41 MrSergio: I'd rather avoid that =w=
00:41 Shiirn: i'm going to go to my old fallback handwaving excuse and say
00:41 MrSergio: lol
00:41 Shiirn: "it's so slow you'll do fine even with a seizure"
00:41 Shiirn: 'cuz really the only reason people make drama over that kind of stuff
00:41 Shiirn: are just picking a fight with me
00:42 MrSergio: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6288311 ?
00:42 Shiirn: or the mapper, usually
00:42 MrSergio: minor stuff that tells me a lot of stuff
00:42 Shiirn: mmm i'll ask 'ihm
00:42 MrSergio: I just moved the waypoint
00:42 Shiirn: yeah ik
00:46 Shiirn: changing the bend of that squishes the star and makes a weird amount of space between the tracks
00:46 Shiirn: and since "it's so slow it won't matter" we both agree it's not worth the movement smoothness
00:47 MrSergio: you really want to make me clean up eventual drama, huh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
00:47 Shiirn: bruh
00:47 Shiirn: i'll clean it up
00:47 MrSergio: let me know once you nerf those slider jumps
00:47 Shiirn: yeah he's working on it
00:49 MrSergio: what's Alheak's problem btw?
00:49 MrSergio: I stopped after 2 lines
00:49 Shiirn: to put it as simply as possible
00:50 Shiirn: i'm going to explain that in my experience with this game, as a mapper and modder, I noticed there are several "phases" most, if not all, mapper/modders go through
00:50 Shiirn: and he's through the young, early "I learned quite a lot and feel comfortable with what I know" stage, where he feels like he's "already learned everything"
00:50 Shiirn: it's the most common phase for most modders nowadays am
00:50 Shiirn: atm
00:50 Shiirn: Lots of knowledge, but narrow-minded
00:51 MrSergio: cool, I'll keep it in mind if I ever get one of his mods
00:51 Shiirn: it's the phase before they find "their niche", figuring out their favorite style of mapping
00:51 MrSergio: although I guess I can't make him trigger as much as you do
00:51 Shiirn: well the thing is he doesn't have ill will
00:52 MrSergio: well, considering the wall of text without caps nor back words, I guess yeah
00:52 Shiirn: the important thing to remember is that everyone who mods a map (usually) is intentionally giving what they feel is solid, important advice
00:54 MrSergio: ok, I guess I'll go to bed after this one
00:54 MrSergio: I dunno why I started a modding marathon out of the blue tonight
00:54 Shiirn: updated
00:55 Shiirn: 's pretty nerfed while still being jumpy
00:55 MrSergio: nice
00:55 Shiirn: angles are around 90 instead of 135
00:55 MrSergio: I'm personally satisfied with it
00:55 MrSergio: let me check the meta dumb stuff
00:55 Shiirn: oh sec
00:55 Shiirn: yeah
00:55 Shiirn: u google dat song
00:56 Shiirn: 05:04:035 (1) - oops it ends on 1/8 tick
00:56 Shiirn: LOL
00:56 Shiirn: fetish fiddled with it a tiny bit
00:56 MrSergio: gg x)
00:58 MrSergio: jesus, how many versions of this are around on osu? =w="
00:58 MrSergio: I googled that and besides the first 3 results, I get only osu results
00:58 Shiirn: since it's a fanmade remix im 90% sure there's no real meta dumping to do
00:58 MrSergio: I found the soundcloud, but it's not official
00:58 Shiirn: yeah
00:58 Shiirn: cametek?
00:58 Shiirn: that's camellia's official soundcloud
00:59 MrSergio: Azerexs
00:59 Shiirn: nope not official
00:59 MrSergio: do you have Camellia's one?
00:59 Shiirn: oh
00:59 Shiirn: hold on
01:00 Shiirn: http://exittunes.com/detail/qwce-00450.html
01:00 Shiirn: 14. Nirvana(Camellia's "BinaryHeaven" Remix) / kors k feat.ЯIRE (Remixed by Camellia)
01:00 Shiirn: so we gotta put in the album name and label?
01:00 MrSergio: perfect
01:00 MrSergio: sure
01:00 MrSergio: why not
01:00 Shiirn: muh google fu is 10/10
01:01 Shiirn: EXIT TUNES Let's Do It Again!!
01:01 Shiirn: should be enough
01:01 MrSergio: yeah
01:01 Shiirn: k updating
01:02 Shiirn: aaaand fetish is still fiddling with that last slider
01:02 Shiirn: lol
01:03 MrSergio: =w=


Nerfed slider jumps on last kiai, reduced spacing on some triplets for more atmosphere and tried to re-arrange the last slider (even tho results aren't that visible, but whatever)

metadata: http://exittunes.com/detail/qwce-00450.html
Shiguma
It begins
Pentori
hey

[General]
don't need enable countdown :p
afaik, you only tag users if they mapped/storyboarded. not too sure about hitsounding
hp is kinda low.. why not use 6 - 7

regarding metadata, why is the formatting of the title and artist ignored?
artist: kors k feat.ЯIRE
romanised: kors k feat.RIRE
title: Nirvana(Camellia's "BinaryHeaven" Remix)

[Transcendence]
00:35:069 (1) - the bells are pretty important in structuring the melody, so why choose to ignore this one but use the others?
00:44:035 (3) - use a 1/4 reverse slider? since there are 3 sounds here
00:51:966 (6,1) - would make more sense to swap the nc's here given in other cases you had the nc right after the slider 00:58:862 (1) - 01:03:000 (1)
01:34:380 (1,2,3) - i hear 5 buzzes here. there are two on 01:34:552 (2) - so using circles would make more sense imo and on 01:34:724 (3) - using 2 kick sliders for each buzz would be nice and lets u map the kick drum on 01:35:069 . and hitsound these of course
01:39:035 - ^ these buzzes come in 4 like at 01:40:587 (3,4,5,6,7) - and 01:41:966 (3,4,5,6) - so u should hitsound them appropriately
01:50:931 (1,1) - 01:56:449 (1,1) - if you were a perfectionist you'd polish these up. http://puu.sh/rKEVe/ea9e95128e.jpg
03:01:449 (1) - map bell pls. u did it for 02:58:690 (2,3)

poke me when you've replied
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Pentori wrote:

hey

[General]
don't need enable countdown :p shiiiiieeeet
afaik, you only tag users if they mapped/storyboarded. not too sure about hitsounding He put a lot of work into the map and due to his hitsounding some of the sections were changed outright so it's potentially arguable that he mapped some of the map itself by doing so.
hp is kinda low.. why not use 6 - 7 Any higher makes Hard Rock a bit iffy towards the end with the long weak section into the extremely long slider. I prefer the HP being too low rather than too high.

regarding metadata, why is the formatting of the title and artist ignored?
artist: kors k feat.ЯIRE
romanised: kors k feat.RIRE
title: Nirvana(Camellia's "BinaryHeaven" Remix)

Changed those, I think the formatting just got buggered up in a .osu-via-puush thing and I fucked up while changing it back. (the Я changes to gibberish if you upload a .osu with it to puush since puush converts it to plaintext instead of UTF-8)

[Transcendence]
00:35:069 (1) - the bells are pretty important in structuring the melody, so why choose to ignore this one but use the others? the entirety of this section largely passes over the bells where they're not overlapping with the 3/4 rhythm used.
00:44:035 (3) - use a 1/4 reverse slider? since there are 3 sounds here there are 3 sounds there, but they're not the same sounds as the three sliders are following.
00:51:966 (6,1) - would make more sense to swap the nc's here given in other cases you had the nc right after the slider 00:58:862 (1) - 01:03:000 (1) I'm not completely sold on this change because of how the 1/1 slider starts on a very significant beat, but my qualms are low enough I'll change it.
01:34:380 (1,2,3) - i hear 5 buzzes here. there are two on 01:34:552 (2) - so using circles would make more sense imo and on 01:34:724 (3) - using 2 kick sliders for each buzz would be nice and lets u map the kick drum on 01:35:069 . and hitsound these of course I don't know what you're listening to hear - those buzzes are hitsounded, the actual music has the beats much more muted and there's just the three.
01:39:035 - ^ these buzzes come in 4 like at 01:40:587 (3,4,5,6,7) - and 01:41:966 (3,4,5,6) - so u should hitsound them appropriately If i were to map these sounds perfectly accurately, they'd be 1/8 longer, but those play like ass and don't follow the tap-hold of 1/4 sliders very well at all. The buzz vs kick mirror is intentional, and imo works quite well.
01:50:931 (1,1) - 01:56:449 (1,1) - if you were a perfectionist you'd polish these up. http://puu.sh/rKEVe/ea9e95128e.jpg my god my eyes do people play on 1080p and use magnifying glasses to check this shieeet
03:01:449 (1) - map bell pls. u did it for 02:58:690 (2,3) eh fine

poke me when you've replied

late response #yolo
Pentori
#2
had a quick irc to clarify stuff but nothing got changed
Ambient
and free your miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind
Nerova Riuz GX
03:01:449 (1) - finish
03:01:621 - delete finish

would not effect your ranking process
Topic Starter
Shiirn
oops yeah that's my mistake for adding the note, i added the bell but forgot the finish on the start. Placed but not gonna pop since it's so minor.
Okoratu
unlocked by mapper's request
Chaos
mfw ninja'd :<
Ongaku
yay
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