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I hate birds right now, Part II: Attack of the Blue Jays

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Topic Starter
DeletedUser_6709840
So another baby bird fell out of a tree and i went to save it... I have peck and claw marks all over my arms now helping the little blue jay firetrucker back into the tree. At least I didn't fall on my butt from 20 feet this time.

I hate birds so much but I'm too kind when it comes to helping animals.
Yuudachi-kun
"And I went to save it"

Should've left it to die.


I saw someone run over a baby possum in the car park a few days ago.
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_6709840
I'm not cold-hearted
Yuudachi-kun
Yeah and look what that got you
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_6709840
Oh well, better than leaving it to die
clover
But did it poop on you?
Bweh
Look at this upstanding citizen fighting the good fight. Good job.

Make sure to gargle every day
Evil
About 4 days ago one of my friends found a bird that fell out of a nest while he was playing pokemon go. He basically used it to take pictures and call it "Pidgey" on reddit then released it somewhere behind a church... It's most likely dead now. Fuck birds though.
FuZ
your friend is a very funny guy
Railey2
people tend to care more about baby animals than they care about humans. This might have various causes, but none if them speak for humanity. The reasons range from the degree of care being directly related to the cuteness of the target, to the so called "just world hypothesis".

People of weak character often carry the belief that the world is inherently just, because they can nit bear the thought of living in a universe that does not care. As a result, when facing an obvious injustice, it either gets ignored (there are no homeless people freezing to death right now), or re-interpreted to fit the hypothesis of living in a just world (the homeless people could just work and make it out, but they chose not to hence it is their fault and they deserve whatever happens to them).

Interestingly, this line of thought rarely gets applied to animals, since injustice that happens to them doesn't generally threaten a worldview where humans are central. As a result, people might show more compassion towards animals than humans.
Meah
Humans are more dangerous and venomous for me. It's just hard to trust anyone anymore.
Yuudachi-kun
If you believe the world is "just" how can you face an "obvious injustice"? It by definition does not exist. Sounds like something condescending from an outsider.
Railey2
please dont quote tr badly formatted text. Also, i said carious reasons. the one i listed are just the most interesting to me. And besides, there are ways to care without putting yourself in danger, like voting for the right party, or giving your money to certain organizations..
Railey2

Khelly wrote:

If you believe the world is "just" how can you face an "obvious injustice"? It by definition does not exist. Sounds like something condescending from an outsider.
because i think it doesn't exist, it stops existing irl? If only it worked like that.
Yuudachi-kun

Railey2 wrote:

Khelly wrote:

If you believe the world is "just" how can you face an "obvious injustice"? It by definition does not exist. Sounds like something condescending from an outsider.
because i think it doesn't exist, it stops existing irl? If only it worked like that.
Because deciding on what's just and what's not just is an opinion, it does stop existing irl! You say "obvious injustice" as if all the readers are supposed to agree with you and know/think exactly what you want them to. What if they disagree that it's an injustice.

Because you think it exists it does exist irl? If only it worked like that.
Bweh

Khelly wrote:

If you believe the world is "just" how can you face an "obvious injustice"? It by definition does not exist. Sounds like something condescending from an outsider.
It seems like the "obvious injustice" is defined by the hypothetical person in the explanation. In other words, the description pertains to the aforementioned person of weak character's perspective. Thus it's not exactly claiming that to be true (or wrong for that matter).
Yuudachi-kun
If the person of "weak character" believes in a just world in which there exists no injustice then they cannot be the one facing an "obvious" injustice because it doesn't exist to them. Someone else of different character can face the same situation and see it as an injustice. I hate it when Railey tries to make people assume things like "obvious injustice" to exist equally between everyone.
Bweh
Well, the obvious injustice was simply postulated as a blatant sign that breaks a certain axiom this person holds on some level. This is akin to finding evidence that something you held to be true or false is actually the contrary. Even if you would normally reject or simply be unaware of said injustices, it cannot escape their conception or understanding.

Simply put, the weak willed character can easily recognise injustice as well as he can recognise justice as it is simply an abstraction (in this case the opposite or lack) of justice.

While they may not recognise the evidence as an obvious injustice immediately, their understanding will have to catch up eventially as existence is supposedly absolute and not relative to other people's perception.


I am arguing semantics while walking

In sorry if this shit makes no sense
Railey2

Khelly wrote:

If the person of "weak character" believes in a just world in which there exists no injustice then they cannot be the one facing an "obvious" injustice because it doesn't exist to them. Someone else of different character can face the same situation and see it as an injustice. I hate it when Railey tries to make people assume things like "obvious injustice" to exist equally between everyone.
Someone who doesn't think that that rainbows exist can't just UNSEE this colorful thingie that appears whenever rain and sun come together outside. They will see it when they look up at the right moment. However, they might choose to not go outside whenever there are rainbows, or they might try to find an alternative explanation, aka it's not real rainbows but something the government put in the water and air.

Most people roughly share a definition of justice. It's unjust when you don't "deserve" it. You don't "deserve" it when you didn't do something equivalent to the thing that's happening to you now. This is how the words are commonly used and understood. In the rare case that someone uses them completely differently, you might want to apply a different logic to them. But this is rare and not relevant to this discussion unless you want to split hairs.

Now, similar to the rainbow, people can't just UNSEE it when something obviously breaks this definition of theirs, but they can choose to ignore it or explain it away, aka If you got raped and murdered even though you led an innocent life, it must have been because you had bad karma from a previous life, so in reality you DID do something equivalent to the rape and murder now. Just in a different life, but it's ok you got your divine punishment now and it's all fair and just after all.

You see, the mental gymnastics that people go through to justify their just world hypothesis are astonishing. It is one way to deal with obvious injustices (and I hope that term is clear now). Next to the other factors, it leads to people being less compassionate toward humans than animals, since animals are usually not included in the just world hypothesis.


The bottom line is:
Things go awry when people try to justify things because they can't bear the thought that some things just aren't just. This leads to them losing their compassion when they try re-interpret the situation in a way that a victim stops being a victim, but instead "had it coming". Or whatever you want to call it.




I hope that explains it in a way that everyone can understand. Brian already explained it very well too, minus the existence is absolute part. I never said that, and it's not needed for this model as long as the overlap between peoples perceptions is big enough, which it is.
Yuudachi-kun
Your rainbow analogy doesn't work because rainbows are a tangible thing whereas justice is not; nice try though.

Your assumption that "this is rare and not worth discussing" is also a dumb assumption you're attempting to make in order to have us believe there's only your opinion about justice to follow.

Here's an example of justice: Some girl gets raped and pregnant. The rapist does not have justice done until he is allowed to marry this women for she has his child. She was deserving of this for dressing so lewd in public.

Example #2: The rapist does not have justice until he is put in gaol. He was deserving of this for raping someone.


Yes I'm comparing the two deserves as equal because at the end of the day it's your perception of what "deserving" is
Endaris
That's not the point Khelly.
You can always find some stupid artificial explanation why something is just. The particular explanation itself doesn't matter.
The thing is: If there is something that conflicts with my opinion of what is deserved I have to either change my opinion, my view on the world, in order to gain sufficient reasons to explain why it was deserved (even though I couldn't before) or I can no longer see the world as just.
So I'm either turtling into my cosmos of beliefs or my world falls apart and I have to puzzle the remaining pieces with new explanations that include the opinion that the world is not just.
Yuudachi-kun
It is the point - Railey's entire basis for saying anything is that some people can't face an "obvious injustice" when "obvious injustice" is entirely in question as to what it is. I hate his assumptions that attempt to apply to everyone.
Endaris
I think you share the same opinion.
Currently Railey is fighting for cash and glory so let's wait up until he comes back - successful or not.
Railey2

Khelly wrote:

Your rainbow analogy doesn't work because rainbows are a tangible thing whereas justice is not; nice try though.

Your assumption that "this is rare and not worth discussing" is also a dumb assumption you're attempting to make in order to have us believe there's only your opinion about justice to follow.

Here's an example of justice: Some girl gets raped and pregnant. The rapist does not have justice done until he is allowed to marry this women for she has his child. She was deserving of this for dressing so lewd in public.

Example #2: The rapist does not have justice until he is put in gaol. He was deserving of this for raping someone.


Yes I'm comparing the two deserves as equal because at the end of the day it's your perception of what "deserving" is
Don't you see that the just world hypothesis theory works for either of these cases Khelly

You are missing the point entirely. Say in example 1 the rapist doesn't get to marry the girl. Someone following his just world hypothesis may explain this "obvious injustice" (following his morality) away, by saying that the girl awaits divine punishment in the near future or that the girl will be ostracized for her shameful act, so it's ok that the rapist doesn't get to marry her anymore. In this reversed example, this person would be losing his compassion for the rapist, as he'd stop to fight for the rapists right to marry the girl and instead be ok with his newly found just explanation.

I hope you can wrap your head around that. This example is way harder to understand than anything said in this thread so far.

The just world hypothesis isn't about your particular definition of just. It just means that people will go out of their way to re-interpret things until they seem just to them, and in the process they often stop to care about the person whom the injustice happened to. The point of the rainbow analogy was to simply show that you can't think things away once you saw them, but you can re-interpret them until you see them in a different light. Rainbows become chemicals that come out of the ground and injustices become just.
Xyrus_old_1
Have these text walls destroyed my mind, or are all these text walls about Confirmation Bias and how "obvious" justice is/isn't absolute to the person in question?
FuZ
i dont read when there is more than 3 lines
Yuudachi-kun
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