3L - Macrophylla Parasol

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Topic Starter
pimp
Thank you, will check asap



And seems like i will need to use a different approach to make you guys understand my point of view.

I'm pretty sure it will work better.

Stay tuned


Behonkiss wrote:

Here's a long overdue return favor for your M4M 2 months back
(i have to admit that i was really mad at you because didn't look like you were going to honor our deal lol.
i wanted some feedback from veteran mappers before finding bn's. unfortunately there are not many of them available for now but at least i got you and another veteran to check this map :)
)

00:00:818 It would be more interesting to place these circles in different spots rather than stacking. (i mapped the intro using a "boring" style intentionally, i wanted it to feel outdated)
00:06:272 Same here. (^)
00:12:409 Maybe add more circles or change this one to a slider or spinner to fill the empty spot after it? (the piano is no longer present and thre is no other instrument to follow starting here, the long background sound started way earlier so i can't follow it)
00:17:863 (4) Suddenly stacking these two after the previous two circles feels unnatural. (i disagree, they are the same sounds so it makes sense to stack, i didn't do the same on other similar parts because i wanted some variation)
01:11:953 (2) I'd raise this vertically a little more to make the progression from circles 1 to 3 more visually appealing. (i will move the previous note by a few pixels so the curve on 123 will be more compatible with the curve on 234)
03:13:090 (2) It also looks visually unappealing to have the sliders overlap like this. I'd try and make them blanket each other instead. (i like them :()
03:17:408 (4) Same here. (^)
05:03:090 (1) I'd get rid of the new combo here and apply it to the slider right afterward. (the flute starts here so i can't do this)
thank you for your help :)
Monstrata
Well, I tried to be helpful. The storyboarded hitsound guideline is largely ignored. THe only important thing is setting the volume to be lower than the regular clap/whistle/etc... volume if you are putting the storyboarded hitsound in a location where there is no object (A gap in between two objects). Other than that there is no drawback that I'm aware of, as someone who has used storyboarded hitsounds for pretty much the same reason you're currently using slider-tick hitsounding. You can refer to the Normal and Hard on https://osu.ppy.sh/s/608723 where it's not possible to keysound every piano note on the map without causing the note density to be too high for the difficulty. (Song is full 1/2 piano rhythms, but obviously you can't map them all on Normal or Hard).
Topic Starter
pimp

Monstrata wrote:

Well, I tried to be helpful.
and I am very thankful for you and everyone trying to help me.

Monstrata wrote:

The storyboarded hitsound guideline is largely ignored.
It's okay if it's ignored if the map was made in a way that there is no better option (slider ticks, in the case of my map), it's a guideline after all.

Monstrata wrote:

THe only important thing is setting the volume to be lower than the regular clap/whistle/etc... volume if you are putting the storyboarded hitsound in a location where there is no object (A gap in between two objects). Other than that there is no drawback that I'm aware of, as someone who has used storyboarded hitsounds for pretty much the same reason you're currently using slider-tick hitsounding. You can refer to the Normal and Hard on https://osu.ppy.sh/s/608723 where it's not possible to keysound every piano note on the map without causing the note density to be too high for the difficulty. (Song is full 1/2 piano rhythms, but obviously you can't map them all on Normal or Hard).
yes i understand that you didn't had the options that i have in my map, i would never tell you to remap and to make them as slider ticks if i modded that map because the way you mapped is fine.

i'm just expecting the same treatment for my map, because i have better options than storyboard hitsounding, and i already explained why slider ticks are a better option than storyboarded hitsounds. (p/6349361 and p/6350854 for anyone who didn't see it yet)
Ataraxia
Minha Nossa O.O
igorsprite
pq q aparece tanto BN pra falar da mesma coisa? :?
Net0
Slider tickrate at 4 used in order to allow the mapper to custom hitsound ticks that are on 1/4 snap...
I can't see why people are having so much trouble to understand something as simple as this. People did the same idea with high bpm maps and tick set on 2 to map consecutive 1/2 snare/kicks on 3/2 sliders. (in maps with simplified density rhythm ofc) .In this case it's the same concept applied to 1/4 sounds passivelly mapped with his rhythm, but instead of current percussion passive mapping (which would basically mean mapping reverses everywhere) he's doing an old melody rhythm map that uses custom tick hitsounding to add more to the experience.

Kisses wrote:

There have only been 2 instances that I'm aware of that have been ranked with slidertick hitsounds. They were both seen as bad but BNs passed them because the were the lower diff in the sets and either the BNs didn't fully check them or didn't care enough. So basically val0108 is a bad mapper,right... Please if you are not aware of something, at least do some research. Mapping slidertick. with custom was done A LOT, it's not a case of two maps that were overlooked.

Kisses wrote:

A lot of people think it's stupid so yeah, I think that says a lot A lot of people say that spacing 1/2 circles spaced everywhere in a song, mapping sliders that cover the entire screen with big sv, etc, are a bad idea, and yet, people still rank maps that do so. It's just the matter of making a mapping decision and check if that decision can be ranked or not.
Stefan
Did anyone provide a solid reason what are the disadvantages about TR4? Yeah, saying "it doesn't fit" and "it doesn't make sense" and "just use storyboard hitsounds" may be called but the mapper didn't randomly choose it.

Using storyboarded hitsounds would be hella stupid to people who prefer to play with their own hitsounds or disable the storyboard - causing something is missing/being off. I mean it'd also be silly to the taiko convert but this is less relevant. As well I see no reason how TR4 is bad compared to TR2/1. Yes, TR2 would have the same effect like TR4 except of these certain parts that are in question but because TR4 wouldn't be much different than TR2 I don't see how you guys try to convince the mapper that TR4 is a bad choice. Especially since I haven't heard anything valueable that is a solid reason to refrain from TR4.
_handholding
It's not about the tickrate specifically it's about the hitsounding, for me anyways
Topic Starter
pimp
i don't need to "convince anyone", people who can think for themselves are not seeing any problem in the way i made hitsounds.
i'm pretty sure there is a lot more people who agree with me but they will not join the discussion to defend me for obvious reasons.

Net0 wrote:

Slider tickrate at 4 used in order to allow the mapper to custom hitsound ticks that are on 1/4 snap...
I can't see why people are having so much trouble to understand something as simple as this. People did the same idea with high bpm maps and tick set on 2 to map consecutive 1/2 snare/kicks on 3/2 sliders. (in maps with simplified density rhythm ofc) .In this case it's the same concept applied to 1/4 sounds passivelly mapped with his rhythm, but instead of current percussion passive mapping (which would basically mean mapping reverses everywhere) he's doing an old melody rhythm map that uses custom tick hitsounding to add more to the experience.

Kisses wrote:

There have only been 2 instances that I'm aware of that have been ranked with slidertick hitsounds. They were both seen as bad but BNs passed them because the were the lower diff in the sets and either the BNs didn't fully check them or didn't care enough. So basically val0108 is a bad mapper,right... Please if you are not aware of something, at least do some research. Mapping slidertick. with custom was done A LOT, it's not a case of two maps that were overlooked.

Kisses wrote:

A lot of people think it's stupid so yeah, I think that says a lot A lot of people say that spacing 1/2 circles spaced everywhere in a song, mapping sliders that cover the entire screen with big sv, etc, are a bad idea, and yet, people still rank maps that do so. It's just the matter of making a mapping decision and check if that decision can be ranked or not.

Stefan wrote:

Did anyone provide a solid reason what are the disadvantages about TR4? Yeah, saying "it doesn't fit" and "it doesn't make sense" and "just use storyboard hitsounds" may be called but the mapper didn't randomly choose it.

Using storyboarded hitsounds would be hella stupid to people who prefer to play with their own hitsounds or disable the storyboard - causing something is missing/being off. I mean it'd also be silly to the taiko convert but this is less relevant. As well I see no reason how TR4 is bad compared to TR2/1. Yes, TR2 would have the same effect like TR4 except of these certain parts that are in question but because TR4 wouldn't be much different than TR2 I don't see how you guys try to convince the mapper that TR4 is a bad choice. Especially since I haven't heard anything valueable that is a solid reason to refrain from TR4.
thank you guys, appreciate your support :)

Kisses wrote:

It's not about the tickrate specifically it's about the hitsounding, for me anyways
i'm not happy to hear that my hitsounds didn't sound good enough for you, but i can't make everyone happy.

as far as i remember, i didn't add any custom hitsound to "overmap" any part of the song, all my hitsounds are following something in the music, but if you suggest me different custom hitsound files or even new ideas maybe we can get to an agreement.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

i know i'm taking too long to post an "update" about this map, but i will have something done eventually

stay tuned
Net0
If you still need mods pimpG I can mod this later on. Best of luck o/
polka
Two cents here.

As long as it has a purpose it's fine. He's not using it to purposely make the combo higher, he's using it to help make his mapping fit the song better.

There's a slight tick noise in the back of the chorus anyway if you listen, so it actually works.

It's just a guideline, and as we see time and time again, they can be broken if done right. And this is clearly done right, and well at that.
Ataraxia
If you want a re-chek (with a special live modding xD) just call me

In my stream, i listened carefully all hitsound about the map, and the reason of tick 4 is just for the best way to follow the music through hitsounds

tick rate 4 is like (all beats will have a sample, all beat will have a purpose)

its simple to understand(if i can, anyone can)

idk why people don't understand something that's so explicit.

--

boa sorte pimpg, sinceramente eu fico triste em ver voce passando por todo esse bocado desnecessario só porque algumas pessoas não querem procurar algo a fundo e só querem o obvio...
DJPop
You don't need slider tick 4. If you want sound on non-tick position, use delayed hitsounds technique.

For example, a sound on 1/4 beat after a note, use wav file with 114ms delay added to the beginning. However, it will sounds off if player doesn't hit a note at the correct timing. You can instead put sound on the end of previous slider's end or repeater, add enough delay to make it sounds at the position you want. Ex 01:16:044 (4) - wav file will need 2/1 (909ms) delay. It will not sound off, but the file size will be bigger (up to the length of delay).

You can use Audacity to edit wav files. Add delay by go to Generate > Silence.
Topic Starter
pimp
@Net0 sure, i'll find you later for an irc mod.

@Veridian yeah, that was accurate xD. appreciate your support

@Ataraxia thank you ^^. btw i barely made changes since you modded last time so no need to recheck my map, but thanks.

@DJPop interesting, i'll consider this the 2nd option, thanks :D
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

since no one is paying attention to what i say, at least pay attention to what God-tier mappers and former MAT/BAT have to say
bolded the most relevant parts of the chat logs


2017-11-20 00:19 pimpG: hi :D
2017-11-20 00:20 pimpG: will you have free time to tell me your opinion today?
2017-11-20 00:22 val0108: oh hi!!
2017-11-20 00:22 val0108: now okay
2017-11-20 00:23 pimpG: let's check a map quickly first. just for reference
2017-11-20 00:23 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55769 Caramell - Ooa Hela Natten (Speedycake Remix) [Normal]]
2017-11-20 00:23 pimpG: normal diff
2017-11-20 00:24 val0108: dl
2017-11-20 00:24 val0108: wait~
2017-11-20 00:24 val0108: opinion? or mod
2017-11-20 00:24 pimpG: just opinion
2017-11-20 00:24 val0108: ok
2017-11-20 00:32 pimpG: what do you think about the custom slider tick hitsounds?
2017-11-20 00:33 val0108: soooooo big
2017-11-20 00:33 pimpG: do you think the slider tick hitsounds are not good?
2017-11-20 00:34 val0108: i guess 50% is best
2017-11-20 00:34 pimpG: i see
2017-11-20 00:34 pimpG: let's compare to my map now
2017-11-20 00:34 val0108: and
2017-11-20 00:34 pimpG: ?
2017-11-20 00:35 val0108: Please also add clap to notes
2017-11-20 00:35 pimpG: this map is not mine
2017-11-20 00:35 val0108: ho
2017-11-20 00:35 pimpG: it's just for reference
2017-11-20 00:35 pimpG: let's check my map now
2017-11-20 00:36 val0108: ok
2017-11-20 00:36 pimpG: it has similar slider tick usage
2017-11-20 00:36 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1031280 3L - Macrophylla Parasol [Marathon]]
2017-11-20 00:37 pimpG: slider tick rate 2 works for the most parts that needed custom slider tick hitsounds
2017-11-20 00:37 pimpG: 01:30:022 (8) - but i have 11 sliders like this one, requiring slider tick rate 4
2017-11-20 00:38 val0108: 01:29:453 (7,8) -
2017-11-20 00:38 val0108: https://puu.sh/ypEMi/29e29bdd7d.png
2017-11-20 00:38 val0108: i think better
2017-11-20 00:39 pimpG: i don't want to remap any part of my beatmap : (
2017-11-20 00:39 pimpG: but do you think that the way i used slider tick hitsounds are okay?
2017-11-20 00:39 val0108: ;_;
2017-11-20 00:40 val0108: ok wait
2017-11-20 00:40 val0108: i use default skin
2017-11-20 00:40 pimpG: i use default skin too
2017-11-20 00:41 val0108: The volume is very good
2017-11-20 00:41 pimpG: i have 7 BN's against me using slider tick rate 4
2017-11-20 00:42 pimpG: they are suggesting me to replace them for storyboarded hitsounds
2017-11-20 00:42 pimpG: on the sliders that requires tick rate 4
2017-11-20 00:44 val0108: Osu of the present era does not recommend hit sound of slider tick
2017-11-20 00:44 pimpG: 01:17:294 (2) - 01:30:022 (8) - 01:39:113 (2) - 01:45:135 (3) - 01:48:772 (1) - 05:03:658 (3) - 05:10:931 (3) - 05:15:476 (5) - 05:23:658 (2) - 05:30:022 (5) - 05:49:794 (2) -
2017-11-20 00:44 val0108: So I think that it was recommended that the sound on SB be recommended
2017-11-20 00:45 pimpG: the ranking criteria says SB hitsounds should be avoided
2017-11-20 00:45 pimpG: this guideline never changed
2017-11-20 00:46 val0108: yeah ;_;
2017-11-20 00:46 pimpG: i'm just trying to avoid them using slider tick hitsounds, because slider tick hitsounds was never considered a problem
2017-11-20 00:46 val0108: yes
2017-11-20 00:47 val0108: I am sorry but I do not know much about the sound >_>
2017-11-20 00:47 val0108: The rank criteria of recent osu is getting strange
2017-11-20 00:47 val0108: so sad
2017-11-20 00:47 pimpG: but it did not changed about SB hitsounds and custom slider ticks
2017-11-20 00:48 pimpG: custom slider ticks are still rankeable
2017-11-20 00:48 val0108: yeah its rankable
2017-11-20 00:49 pimpG: that's why i'm getting opinions from experienced mappers like you
2017-11-20 00:50 pimpG: so what do you think about my custom slider tick hitsounds, do they look good to you?
2017-11-20 00:50 val0108: it's fine
2017-11-20 00:51 pimpG: thank you, appreciate your feedback :D
2017-11-20 00:51 val0108: yeah!!!
2017-11-16 18:24 pimpG: hello
2017-11-16 18:24 Saten: hi
2017-11-16 18:25 pimpG: i would like to get opinions from veteran mappers, on something
2017-11-16 18:25 pimpG: people who won't be biased and stuff
2017-11-16 18:25 pimpG: are you busy?
2017-11-16 18:26 Saten: yeah kinda
2017-11-16 18:26 pimpG: alright, i ask you another day then, np
2017-11-16 18:26 pimpG: have fun
2017-11-16 18:27 Saten: thanks, you too
2017-11-19 13:45 pimpG: hello
2017-11-19 13:45 Saten: hi
2017-11-19 13:45 pimpG: are you busy now?
2017-11-19 13:46 Saten: not busy atm
2017-11-19 13:46 pimpG: i would like to get opinions from experienced mappers on something very specific in my map
2017-11-19 13:47 pimpG: let's check another map quickly just for reference
2017-11-19 13:47 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55769 Caramell - Ooa Hela Natten (Speedycake Remix) [Normal]]
2017-11-19 13:48 pimpG: normal diff
2017-11-19 13:49 pimpG: sorry, random connection issue
2017-11-19 13:50 pimpG: let's check another map quickly just for reference
2017-11-19 13:51 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55769 Caramell - Ooa Hela Natten (Speedycake Remix) [Normal]]
2017-11-19 13:51 pimpG: normal diff
2017-11-19 13:51 Saten: o.o
2017-11-19 13:52 Saten: man that's quite an old map there
2017-11-19 13:52 pimpG: xD
2017-11-19 13:55 pimpG: i got disconnected again, did you said something
2017-11-19 13:56 Saten: rip
2017-11-19 13:56 pimpG: so what's your thoughts on the slider tick hitsounding?
2017-11-19 13:56 Saten: I don't mind such hitsounding, but the offset is kinda off in general
2017-11-19 13:57 Saten: I've done it myself
2017-11-19 13:57 pimpG: whoa
2017-11-19 13:57 pimpG: plese show me some exemples
2017-11-19 13:57 pimpG: i might need them
2017-11-19 13:59 Saten: sec
2017-11-19 13:59 Saten: can't remember which I used it in
2017-11-19 13:59 Saten: most likely in easier difficulies
2017-11-19 14:01 Saten: I used it slightly in this one
2017-11-19 14:01 Saten: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/201226 yozuca*, Rino, et al - Santa Claus ni Yoyaku Shite! [Santa-San]]
2017-11-19 14:02 pimpG: nice
2017-11-19 14:02 pimpG: i will check your other maps later too
2017-11-19 14:03 pimpG: now let's check my map
2017-11-19 14:03 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1031280 3L - Macrophylla Parasol [Marathon]]
2017-11-19 14:04 Saten: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/235865 Ushirokara Haiyoritai G - Koi wa Chaos no Shimobenari (TV Size) [Saten's Easy]]
2017-11-19 14:04 Saten: this as well
2017-11-19 14:04 Saten: hm ok
2017-11-19 14:05 pimpG: most of the slider ticks are on 1/2, so slider tick rate 2 was good enough for them
2017-11-19 14:05 pimpG: 01:17:294 (2) - but there is 11 sliders like this one, that requires slider tick rate 4
2017-11-19 14:06 Saten: yeah since you started on a blue tick
2017-11-19 14:07 pimpG: so what do you think about it?
2017-11-19 14:08 Saten: I think it's necessary
2017-11-19 14:08 Saten: I mean 01:45:135 (3) -
2017-11-19 14:08 Saten: wouldn't work with 2
2017-11-19 14:08 pimpG: yup
2017-11-19 14:08 pimpG: i have 7 nominators against me using tick rate 4
2017-11-19 14:09 Saten: tbh it's the map creator that should decide that
2017-11-19 14:09 pimpG: yeah, they suggest me to use storyboarded hitsounds instead
2017-11-19 14:09 Saten: but it would be a different story if it was 200+bpm with tickrate 4
2017-11-19 14:09 Saten: oh god no
2017-11-19 14:10 pimpG: the ranking criteria is on my side, but they are ignoring all what i say
2017-11-19 14:10 Saten: you can't disable storyboard sounds
2017-11-19 14:10 pimpG: yeah
2017-11-19 14:10 Saten: afaik
2017-11-19 14:10 Saten: even if you miss they will play
2017-11-19 14:10 pimpG: the taiko convert players would be disgusted
2017-11-19 14:10 Saten: which makes it even more awkward
2017-11-19 14:10 Saten: yup
2017-11-19 14:10 pimpG: i'm glad you agree with me
2017-11-19 14:11 pimpG: are you okay with me posting this chat log in the thread later?
2017-11-19 14:11 pimpG: among other experienced mapper's chat logs about the same thing
2017-11-19 14:11 Saten: sure
2017-11-19 14:11 pimpG: thank you, your feedback will surely make a difference
2017-11-19 14:11 Saten: btw did you ask any QATs too?
2017-11-19 14:12 pimpG: okorin
2017-11-19 14:12 pimpG: and he disagree with me
2017-11-19 14:12 pimpG: the other qat's barely get online, and they never reply
2017-11-19 14:12 Saten: imma slap him
2017-11-19 14:12 pimpG: lol
2017-11-19 14:12 pimpG: he deserves that for sure
2017-11-19 14:13 pimpG: thank you for offering me your opinion, have a wonderful day
2017-11-19 14:14 Saten: my pleasure
21:18 pimpG: oi
21:22 Mismagius: oi
21:22 pimpG: eu preciso de opiniões de mappers experientes
21:22 Mismagius: noq
21:23 pimpG: que pensam por conta propria e tals
21:23 pimpG: vc ta ocupado?
21:23 Mismagius: nao
21:23 Mismagius: mas n tenho mt como articular opiniao pq eu to mt w/e pra mapping ultimamente
21:24 Mismagius: so falar
21:24 pimpG: precisa ser em ingles ok?
21:24 pimpG: tipo, gostaria de usar o log pra postar, se vc deixar
21:25 Mismagius: ok
21:25 Mismagius: np
21:25 pimpG: okay let's check a map first
21:25 *pimpG is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55769 Caramell - Ooa Hela Natten (Speedycake Remix) [Normal]]
21:26 pimpG: what do you think about those slider tick hitsounds
21:26 *Mismagius is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55769 Caramell - Ooa Hela Natten (Speedycake Remix) [Normal]]
21:26 Mismagius: good when used right and only in lower difficulties imo
21:27 pimpG: right
21:27 Mismagius: it must be consistent rhythm and shouldnt really put the player off
21:27 pimpG: i used a similar idea on my insane
21:27 Mismagius: 01:21:331 (1,2,3) - e.g. rhythm gets a bit confusing here because of it
21:27 *pimpG is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1031280 3L - Macrophylla Parasol [Marathon]]
21:28 pimpG: i'm getting a lot of hate for those slider tick sounds i'm using
21:28 *Mismagius is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1031280 3L - Macrophylla Parasol [Marathon]]
21:29 pimpG: my rhythms are not simplified, i just mapped to the vocals mostly
21:29 pimpG: and have custom hitsounds to keep consistency
21:30 Mismagius: seems alright since the rhythm you're using with the slidertick-based hitsounds works as a secondary rhythm which is completely constant and foreseeable by the player. maybe it's not as comfortable but that's why it works as a gimmick
21:31 pimpG: if i mapped all of the sounds as clickable notes, my map would be no different from those generic stuff from nowadays
21:31 pimpG: yup
21:31 Mismagius: yep, the gimmick in the map is that your rhythm isn't a constant 1/2 based on strong notes
21:31 pimpG: now something more specific
21:31 Mismagius: works well enough
21:31 Mismagius: as long as you don't use SB'd hitsounds it should be fine
21:32 pimpG: that's what i'm being suggested, actually
21:32 pimpG: because
21:32 pimpG: 01:17:294 (2) -
21:32 pimpG: people are against me using slider tick rate 4
21:32 pimpG: i need slide tick rate 4 for notes like this one
21:33 Mismagius: tick rate doesn't even make a difference in the map lol, why be against it if it's basically worthless and only affects gameplay in a way where it forces people to be more consistent when aiming a slider..
21:33 Mismagius: it's just forcing the map to be "consistent" with the ones in the ranked section and killing variation this way
21:34 pimpG: so you agree with me that tick rate 4 is okay if i simply need it, right?
21:34 pimpG: they are silenced in the parts that they are not necessary
21:35 pimpG: there is 11 sliders that needs tick rate 4
21:35 pimpG: they want me to use tick rate 2 and use storyboarded sounds for those that needs tick rate 4
21:36 Mismagius: dude everything is okay as long as it's rankable lol map quality is subjective especially talking about gimmicky mapping styles like this one
21:36 Mismagius: as long as you have an argument to keep them then there's no issue
21:36 Mismagius: there's no thing as "this map would be objectively better without tick 4"
21:36 Mismagius: and any BN who says otherwise might just be too far up their own ass

21:36 pimpG: i have like 10 nominators againt me
21:37 pimpG: i feel like if i get a bubble they will want to veto
21:37 Mismagius: ye ppl like (name removed from chat log) and (name removed from chat log) who do everything to keep mapping meta the way they want it to be :)
21:37 Mismagius: not really interested in their opinion tbh
21:37 pimpG: but i want my stuff ranked T.T
21:37 pimpG: so i'm collecting experienced mapper's opinions
21:38 Mismagius: might be easier to get your map loved atm since ppl are gatekeeping ranked section like that xd
21:38 Mismagius: but well, i cant say much in the matter aside from the fact i dont see anything wrong with the map
21:38 pimpG: thanks, i'm glad you agree with me
21:39 pimpG: slider tick rate is nothing but a setting to be adjusted to fit the mapper's needs
21:39 pimpG: k this should be enough, hope you have a nice week
21:39 Mismagius: well, gl wit hthat
21:39 Mismagius: npnp
21:40 pimpG: oh
2017-11-20 19:06 pimpG: hello
2017-11-20 19:08 pimpG: i'm looking for opinions from experienced mappers (who think for themselves rather than being biased by other's opinions) on something very specific in my map
2017-11-20 19:08 pimpG: are you busy?
2017-11-20 19:12 -kevincela-: unfortunately i have stuff to do now, i think i'll be free tomorrow or the day after tomorrow
2017-11-20 19:12 pimpG: alright, thank you
2017-11-23 17:26 pimpG: hi
2017-11-23 17:26 -kevincela-: oh hey, i remember you were asking me about that opinion
2017-11-23 17:26 pimpG: are you busy today?
2017-11-23 17:27 -kevincela-: i can give a quick look after i'm done mapping this bit :p
2017-11-23 17:27 pimpG: btw sorry about your friend, but he asked for it
2017-11-23 17:27 pimpG: (link was removed from the chat log)
2017-11-23 17:28 pimpG: sure, i'm free for a few hours
2017-11-23 17:28 -kevincela-: hmm?
2017-11-23 17:28 -kevincela-: i don't know this guy lol
2017-11-23 17:29 pimpG: this line he sent me is the same i sent you like 5 minutes before his random pm
2017-11-23 17:29 -kevincela-: oh
2017-11-23 17:29 pimpG: but alright
2017-11-23 17:30 -kevincela-: no idea how he did that, but i closed osu soon after talking with you
2017-11-23 17:31 pimpG: maybe he found a way to stalk your logs xD
2017-11-23 17:35 -kevincela-: ok i'm done
2017-11-23 17:35 -kevincela-: what did you want me to look into?
2017-11-23 17:36 pimpG: lets quickly check another map just for reference
2017-11-23 17:36 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/53573 Caramell - Ooa Hela Natten (Speedycake Remix) [Hard]]
2017-11-23 17:36 pimpG: ops
2017-11-23 17:36 pimpG: normal diff
2017-11-23 17:37 pimpG: what do you think about the custom slider tick hitsounding?
2017-11-23 17:37 -kevincela-: oki
2017-11-23 17:38 -kevincela-: it's okay
2017-11-23 17:38 -kevincela-: i also do that some times
2017-11-23 17:38 pimpG: cool
2017-11-23 17:38 pimpG: my map has similar usage, i think
2017-11-23 17:38 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1031280 3L - Macrophylla Parasol [Marathon]]
2017-11-23 17:40 pimpG: slider tick rate 2 worked for the most part of my map
2017-11-23 17:40 pimpG: 01:17:294 (2) - but there is 11 sliders like this one requiring slider tick rate 4 to have enough ticks
2017-11-23 17:41 -kevincela-: hmm
2017-11-23 17:42 pimpG: the slider ticks are silenced where i don't need them, and this is rankeable
2017-11-23 17:42 -kevincela-: i don't think it's an issue personally
2017-11-23 17:43 pimpG: there is 7 BN's against me using tick rate 4
2017-11-23 17:43 pimpG: they want me to use SB'ed hitsounds instead
2017-11-23 17:43 pimpG: but i hate this idea
2017-11-23 17:44 -kevincela-: tbh i don't see much wrong with it
2017-11-23 17:44 pimpG: yeah
2017-11-23 17:44 -kevincela-: it looks strange, but that's it
2017-11-23 17:44 pimpG: most veteran mappers are fine with it
2017-11-23 17:44 -kevincela-: slider ticks can be silenced without any problems, unlike actual beats
2017-11-23 17:45 -kevincela-: they don't have to necessarily represent a beat in the same way a note does imo
2017-11-23 17:45 pimpG: exactly
2017-11-23 17:45 pimpG: i'm going to post this chat log in the thread eventually, among other veteran mappers opinions
2017-11-23 17:46 -kevincela-: yeah, sure
2017-11-23 17:46 pimpG: is this ok?
2017-11-23 17:46 -kevincela-: np
2017-11-23 17:46 pimpG: nice, thank you :D
2017-11-23 17:46 -kevincela-: i don't really get this concept that every slider tick has to match the song lol
2017-11-23 17:47 pimpG: they just complain because it's unusual, the new mappers don't know how to deal with unusual ideas
2017-11-23 17:48 pimpG: especially when it's about hitsounding, that most mappers really don't care
2017-11-23 17:49 -kevincela-: tbh the maps that make good use of EVERY tick regarding hitsounding are very few
2017-11-23 17:49 -kevincela-: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/83473 Hanazawa Kana - Ashita Kuru Hi [Hard]]
2017-11-23 17:50 -kevincela-: this is the only one i remember very well for example lol
2017-11-23 17:50 pimpG: do you have any map doing the same thing i did with tick 4?
2017-11-23 17:50 -kevincela-: hmm, i don't really know
2017-11-23 17:50 pimpG: so far i only have that james map to show as exemple
2017-11-23 17:53 pimpG: oh, he changed the bpm to make bette use of the slider ticks?
2017-11-23 17:53 pimpG: better
2017-11-23 17:53 -kevincela-: yeah
2017-11-23 17:54 -kevincela-: and that's also the reason why the map couldn't be ranked back then
2017-11-23 17:54 pimpG: it's not his fault that the tick rate can't be changed : /
2017-11-23 17:54 pimpG: same for me
2017-11-23 17:54 -kevincela-: yep
2017-11-23 17:55 pimpG: it actually made it to ranked section
2017-11-23 17:56 pimpG: literaly heart breaking
2017-11-23 17:56 -kevincela-: yeah
2017-11-23 17:56 -kevincela-: :(
2017-11-30 17:39 pimpG: hi andrea
2017-11-30 17:39 pimpG: can i get your opinion (just opinion, not like a mod) on something very specific in my beatmap?
2017-11-30 17:46 Andrea: well, I gotta logoff for now
2017-11-30 17:46 Andrea: remind me when I'm back owo
2017-12-01 19:37 pimpG: *(reminder sound)
2017-12-01 19:39 Andrea: owo
2017-12-01 19:39 Andrea: what I had to gd
2017-12-01 19:39 Andrea: I was sooo away xd
2017-12-01 19:39 pimpG: xD
2017-12-01 19:39 pimpG: i asked for your opinion on something very specific in my current map for ranking
2017-12-01 19:40 pimpG: shouldn't take too much for you to decide about it, i think
2017-12-01 19:40 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1031280 3L - Macrophylla Parasol [Marathon]]
2017-12-01 19:41 pimpG: it's about the slider tick rate
2017-12-01 19:45 pimpG: i'm using custom slider tick sounds, and slider tick rate 2 was enough for the most part of my map
2017-12-01 19:46 pimpG: 01:17:294 (2) - but there is 11 like this one, requiring me to use str4 to custom hitsound
2017-12-01 19:46 pimpG: 11 sliders*
2017-12-01 20:20 Andrea: let me see
2017-12-01 20:21 Andrea: the tick rate seems okay to me actually
2017-12-01 20:21 Andrea: it's rare nowadays to see maps with short sliders using ticks :D
2017-12-01 20:21 Andrea: I find it pretty cool tbh
2017-12-01 20:22 Andrea: Garven would approve too :^)
2017-12-01 20:22 pimpG: i have like 7 BN's against me using tick rate 4
2017-12-01 20:22 pimpG: they want me to use SB'ed hitsounds to replace the 4's
2017-12-01 20:23 pimpG: even after i explained the bad side effects sb'ed sounds have : /
2017-12-01 20:24 pimpG: that's why i'm collecting veteran's opinions, to show them they don't speak for everyone/they are just kinda unexperienced
2017-12-01 20:24 pimpG: too bad you and garven are not nominators : /
2017-12-01 20:25 pimpG: i hope the opinions will open their eyes a bit
2017-12-01 20:28 pimpG: do you give me permission to post this chat log among other veteran mappers/modder's opinions?
2017-12-01 20:28 pimpG: in the thread
2017-12-01 21:14 Andrea: sorry I had to afk
2017-12-01 21:14 Andrea: of course you can
2017-12-01 21:14 Andrea: and yeah sb hitsounds are no good
2017-12-01 21:15 pimpG: it's ok. thank you : )
2017-12-01 21:18 Andrea: no problem :D
2017-11-11 16:52 Chewin: tell me about your question
2017-11-11 16:52 pimpG: you modded my map but you didn't seem bothered by the slider tick rate 4
2017-11-11 16:53 Chewin: mh I didn't have any trouble about it probably o:
2017-11-15 19:01 pimpG: hello
2017-11-15 19:05 pimpG: i would like to get opinions from experienced mappers
2017-11-15 19:06 pimpG: those who can think for themselves and are not going to be biased
2017-11-15 19:06 pimpG: are you busy?
2017-11-15 19:07 Stefan: Uh
2017-11-15 19:07 Stefan: Well, it'd be better if you ask me tomorrow
2017-11-15 19:07 Stefan: because I am extremly tired right now
2017-11-15 19:07 pimpG: sure, thank you
2017-11-15 19:08 Stefan: Btw, standard or taiko?
2017-11-15 19:08 pimpG: std
2017-11-15 19:23 Stefan: okay.
2017-11-15 19:23 Stefan: Gonna see for that later but I am going to bed now
2017-11-15 19:23 Stefan: gnight~
2017-11-16 17:30 pimpG: sup
2017-11-16 17:31 Stefan: hey hey
2017-11-16 17:32 pimpG: you used to be a bat, right?
2017-11-16 17:32 Stefan: Uh, well
2017-11-16 17:32 Stefan: I am a Beatmap Nominator atm so it's the same
2017-11-16 17:33 pimpG: but it was way more difficult to join bat
2017-11-16 17:34 pimpG: whatever, i trust on your skills more than the other nominators since you are a veteran
2017-11-16 17:34 pimpG: can we check something?
2017-11-16 17:35 Stefan: Uh sure.
2017-11-16 17:35 pimpG: lets see
2017-11-16 17:36 Stefan: gimme map
2017-11-16 17:36 pimpG: lets check a map 1st
2017-11-16 17:36 pimpG: not mine
2017-11-16 17:36 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55769 Caramell - Ooa Hela Natten (Speedycake Remix) [Normal]]
2017-11-16 17:38 pimpG: 00:31:808 (1) -
2017-11-16 17:38 pimpG: what do you think about this hitsounding?
2017-11-16 17:39 pimpG: normal*
2017-11-16 17:40 Stefan: You mean the slider ticks?
2017-11-16 17:40 pimpG: yup
2017-11-16 17:40 Stefan: Well, it's a smart way to have them included despite of the difficulty level
2017-11-16 17:40 Stefan: but idk if that is acceptable in 2017, hafta check the RC for that.
2017-11-16 17:40 pimpG: i have an insane with similar concept
2017-11-16 17:41 Stefan: Hmm, then gimme a minute
2017-11-16 17:43 Stefan: Only thing that is important to consider is the following:
2017-11-16 17:43 Stefan: "Finally, you cannot silence both slider ticks and slider slides together."
2017-11-16 17:43 Stefan: This would apply for example at the beatmap you have sent.
2017-11-16 17:43 pimpG: yup, rankeability is not a problem
2017-11-16 17:44 pimpG: now my map
2017-11-16 17:44 Stefan: But except of that the idea can be used without problems.
2017-11-16 17:44 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1031280 3L - Macrophylla Parasol [Marathon]]
2017-11-16 17:47 pimpG: 01:30:022 (8) - i have 11 sliders that requires slider tick rate 4
2017-11-16 17:47 pimpG: for hitsounding purposes
2017-11-16 17:48 pimpG: the slider ticks are silenced where i don't need them
2017-11-16 17:48 pimpG: but not the sliderslide, as you said
2017-11-16 17:49 Stefan: Well, the slider tick rate doesn't really matter much. It's rather a question of creativity for what you need it.
2017-11-16 17:50 pimpG: i have like 10 std nominators against me using tick rate 4
2017-11-16 17:50 Stefan: Objectively said, there is nothing wrong to use TR4 here
2017-11-16 17:50 Stefan: Oh
2017-11-16 17:50 pimpG: they want me to use storyboarded sounds instead ._.
2017-11-16 17:51 pimpG: kids nowadays...
2017-11-16 17:52 pimpG: so far no one of the veterans i asked for opinions disagree with me using tick rate 4
2017-11-16 17:55 pimpG: can i post this log on the thread once i get a lot of opinions?
2017-11-16 17:58 Stefan: Well, I have read the complete thread rn - just to understand the whole problem.
2017-11-16 17:58 pimpG: yeah, i'm the most arrogant and stubborn mapper, apparently
2017-11-16 17:59 Stefan: So from what I see people have a problem that TR4 is used because 11 sliders require it to work with the current setup.
2017-11-16 17:59 Stefan: And they recommed to use storyboarded hitsounds to get the same effect.
2017-11-16 18:00 pimpG: i explained the bad side effects that sb'ed sounds have
2017-11-16 18:00 pimpG: and much more
2017-11-16 18:00 Stefan: I haven't seen a proper reason why TR4 is bad per se.
2017-11-16 18:00 Stefan: Except "it doesn't fit".
2017-11-16 18:00 pimpG: to me it seems like they are all biased, just because me and okorin had a disagreement
2017-11-16 18:00 Stefan: Which is.. uh..
2017-11-16 18:02 Stefan: I mean, honestly I can imagine to use storyboarded hitsounds as alternative.
2017-11-16 18:02 Stefan: It's one way but I'd like to hear what's so bad about TR4 for your beatmap.
2017-11-16 18:02 pimpG: but silencing the slider tick is rankeable
2017-11-16 18:03 Stefan: It is.
2017-11-16 18:03 pimpG: so how often it's fitting does not matters
2017-11-16 18:03 pimpG: i need it i use it, that's it
2017-11-16 18:03 Stefan: Using TR4 is inconvenient but that's it.
2017-11-16 18:04 pimpG: as a taiko player
2017-11-16 18:04 Stefan: The map isn't even hard as it would result to many slider breaks
2017-11-16 18:04 pimpG: would you like to hear random hitsounds that are not part of taiko default sounds when you play my map in taiko?
2017-11-16 18:05 Stefan: Well, that are my thoughts why storyboarded hitsounds are partly an acceptable idea.
2017-11-16 18:05 pimpG: sb'ed hitsounds are treated like a "last option" in the ranking criteria
2017-11-16 18:06 Stefan: I believe it'd also make a difference if you prefer to play with your own hitsounds and then suddenly here the storyboarded one.
2017-11-16 18:06 pimpG: yeah, players with custom skins will hear them even on standard
2017-11-16 18:06 pimpG: i write that on the thread too
2017-11-16 18:07 pimpG: custom skin hitsounds*
2017-11-16 18:08 pimpG: "ignore beatmap's hitsounds" won't work. "disable storyboard" won't disable the sb'ed sounds
2017-11-16 18:14 Stefan: I posted in the thread.
2017-11-16 18:15 pimpG: oh thank you
2017-11-16 18:15 pimpG: this is better than posting the log but i didn't expect anyone to want to get involved
2017-11-16 18:16 Stefan: Well
2017-11-16 18:16 Stefan: All I want is a good reason why TR4 is bad
2017-11-16 18:16 Stefan: And nobody gave one so far.
2017-11-16 18:17 Stefan: I don't give a shit when people say it doesn't make sense or fit. lol
2017-11-16 18:17 pimpG: i considered everything, actually.
2017-11-16 18:17 Stefan: Fair enough.
2017-11-16 18:17 pimpG: it raises the combo from 1400 to 1800
2017-11-16 18:17 Stefan: However, you cannot really consider other modes (example with Taiko) since the map is designed for Standard, not for Taiko.
2017-11-16 18:18 Stefan: It's just an annotation you can mention.
2017-11-16 18:18 Stefan: But that's it.
2017-11-16 18:18 pimpG: yeah i expected that treadment for that annotation
2017-11-16 18:18 pimpG: but it's real and can be avoided
2017-11-16 18:18 pimpG: the way i did
2017-11-16 18:20 pimpG: do you have anyone to recomend me to get opinions?
2017-11-16 18:22 pimpG: for now i asked chewin, blue dragon, gabe, you, planning to ask val0108, djpop, toy, hollow wings, saten and whoever shows up randomly
2017-11-16 18:22 Stefan: Uh, not really.
2017-11-16 18:23 pimpG: i see
2017-11-16 18:23 pimpG: but i'm very thankful for your support anyway
2017-11-16 18:25 Stefan: np!
18:14 pimpG: hello
18:15 Gabe: hiii
18:15 pimpG: i would like to get opinions from experienced mappers
18:15 pimpG: from those who can think for themselves and not going to be biased
18:16 pimpG: are you busy?
18:16 Gabe: can do my best
18:17 pimpG: i will just show you my map and show the specific parts
18:18 Gabe: yeah sure
18:18 *pimpG is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1031280 3L - Macrophylla Parasol [Marathon]]
18:20 pimpG: i honestly think that i have more interesting gameplay the way it is, rather than remapping slider ticks as clickable notes
18:20 pimpG: as my mapping is for the most part, vocal
18:20 Gabe: okay yeah
18:20 Gabe: lemme check
18:22 pimpG: in my opinion, slider ticks work the same way as repeats and slider ends
18:22 pimpG: so it's okay to have sounds like that on them
18:23 pimpG: because repeats and slider ends get the same treatment as circles and slider starts on hitsounding
18:23 Gabe: there's no issue on my end
18:23 Gabe: as you said, you're following the vocals with your objects
18:23 pimpG: now something more specific
18:23 pimpG: yup
18:23 Gabe: and hitsounds in this case is like a plus
18:24 pimpG: yes!
18:24 pimpG: 01:17:294 (2) - what about this?
18:24 pimpG: hitsound on 1/4
18:24 Gabe: its okay
18:24 Gabe: hitsound consistency while following another sound
18:24 pimpG: nice, then the next point
18:25 pimpG: people are saying
18:25 pimpG: that i should not use slider tick rate 4 because i don't need it very often
18:25 pimpG: they say that i should use tick rate 2 and use storyboarded sounds for those parts that i need faster slider ticks
18:26 pimpG: i told them that storyboarded hitsounds are not a better option than slider tick rate 4, because it has too many bad side effects that slider ticks don't
18:26 pimpG: you probably know them already
18:27 pimpG: the bad side effects
18:27 Gabe: yeah, I do
18:27 Gabe: it's not even recommended to use storyboarded hitsounds ANYWAYS
18:28 pimpG: yup
18:28 pimpG: especially inside hitobjects
18:28 pimpG: so do you think it's fair to use tick 4 for hitsounding?
18:29 pimpG: i have muted slider ticks where i don't need them
18:29 pimpG: just like the map i showed earlier
18:29 Gabe: yes, since your 1/2 sliders will have hitsounds with tick 4
18:30 pimpG: nice
18:30 pimpG: can i use this log if i need it later?
18:30 Gabe: i guess
2017-11-18 13:25 pimpG: hello
2017-11-18 13:26 bossandy: yoyo
2017-11-18 13:26 pimpG: i'm looking for opinions from experienced mappers
2017-11-18 13:26 pimpG: those who can think for themselves and are not going to be biased
2017-11-18 13:26 pimpG: are you busy?
2017-11-18 13:27 bossandy: I think It's okay to take a look xD
2017-11-18 13:27 pimpG: i'll show you another map 1st just for reference
2017-11-18 13:27 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55769 Caramell - Ooa Hela Natten (Speedycake Remix) [Normal]]
2017-11-18 13:28 pimpG: normal diff
2017-11-18 13:28 bossandy: Wait a second
2017-11-18 13:29 bossandy: oh!
2017-11-18 13:29 bossandy: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9568602
2017-11-18 13:29 bossandy: I have played this song when I was a junior high xD
2017-11-18 13:30 pimpG: everybody should play james maps xD
2017-11-18 13:30 pimpG: what do you think about the custom slider tick hitsounding?
2017-11-18 13:31 bossandy: He is a great mapper
2017-11-18 13:32 pimpG: indeed, his legacy is barely matched by other mappers from the same era
2017-11-18 13:33 bossandy: I thinks it's fine , but do not use too many custom slider ticks
2017-11-18 13:34 pimpG: okay let's compare with my map, it has similar idea
2017-11-18 13:34 pimpG: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1031280 3L - Macrophylla Parasol [Marathon]]
2017-11-18 13:34 bossandy: It's a bit wired now recently because of its slider tick rate xD
2017-11-18 13:35 pimpG: wired?
2017-11-18 13:35 bossandy: too much stick xD
2017-11-18 13:36 bossandy: I think Slider Tick Rate 2 is the best imo
2017-11-18 13:36 pimpG: 01:17:294 (2) - but i have 11 sliders that requires slider tick rate 4
2017-11-18 13:36 pimpG: like this one
2017-11-18 13:37 pimpG: the slider ticks that i don't need, are using a silenced hitsound file
2017-11-18 13:37 pimpG: everything i did in this mapset is rankeable
2017-11-18 13:37 bossandy: I know what you mean
2017-11-18 13:38 pimpG: what do you think?
2017-11-18 13:38 bossandy: It is all rankeabke imo , It's all fine for me tho , but I am not a formal MAT or BAT now
2017-11-18 13:38 bossandy: haha
2017-11-18 13:39 pimpG: i know, but i have 7 nominators against me using slider tick rate 4
2017-11-18 13:39 bossandy: If I am a MAT or BAT , I will bubble or rank this map :3
2017-11-18 13:39 pimpG: so i want to show them that veteran mappers have no problem with them
2017-11-18 13:39 bossandy: Their reason is ?
2017-11-18 13:39 pimpG: "it's not fitting"
2017-11-18 13:39 pimpG: but i muted the ticks where i don't need them
2017-11-18 13:40 pimpG: "just because it's rankeble doesn't means it's good"
2017-11-18 13:40 pimpG: that's all they say
2017-11-18 13:40 bossandy: Yeah , That's why you muted the tick and it's fine for me
2017-11-18 13:41 pimpG: yup
2017-11-18 13:41 pimpG: are you fine with me posting this chat log in the thread later?
2017-11-18 13:41 bossandy: why is it not good ? Rate 4 for a
2017-11-18 13:41 bossandy: rate 4 for a better hitsounding
2017-11-18 13:41 bossandy: It's all good for me
2017-11-18 13:41 pimpG: i think they are just scared because nobody uses slider tick rate 4 noawdays
2017-11-18 13:41 bossandy: Yeah
2017-11-18 13:42 pimpG: thank you, your opinion means a lot to me, i hope it helps me get this map qualified
2017-11-18 13:43 bossandy: You right haha
2017-11-18 13:43 bossandy: I hope so!
2017-11-18 13:44 bossandy: Good luck on the ranking road hehe
2017-11-18 10:51 pimpG: so you disagree with me using tick rate 4?
2017-11-18 10:51 pimpG: does it makes my map be bad as the nominators are saying?
2017-11-18 10:53 spboxer3: umm... sorry about that but yes, but if I'm BN I will make this pass, cuz It's really not a big problem to melol
2017-11-18 10:53 spboxer3: The sb sound is good sol to me too
2017-11-18 10:55 pimpG: i wrote why i don't like to use sb'ed sounds here p/6349361
2017-11-18 10:55 pimpG: but it's ok if you disagree, thank you for giving me your opinion, and i hope you decide to a become BN xD


for those who don't know, MAT was the equivalent to the tier 1 BN (could only bubble maps, not rank them, they all had different tone of pink color name)
BAT was the equivalent to the tier 2 BN (could do what the MAT's did, and also rank maps, they all had different tone of red color name)

and at some point the status of a BAT was basically the same as a QAT+GMT, basically admins that also handle beatmap rank process

the standards for joining MAT and BAT were much higher than what it is nowadays to join the BN. so it's safe to assume that if the veterans were still around handling beatmap ranking process, many of the current members of the BN would not even be accepted as BN...

the only ones that never been part of the MAT or BAT are Saten and val0108, but they are both god tier mappers, they just were not interested in handling beatmap ranking process.

spboxer3 still prefer SB'ed sounds but my map is still worth a bubble for him. everyone else seems to be totally okay with tick rate 4
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Until this day, slider tick rate has been used in different ways depending on the map/mapper's needs. for exemple, mappers often use them to make slider changes more noticeable, especially when they try to make a slider with higher length to have similar size as a shorter length slider, similar to new combo for SV changes.
There is also some mappers who simply don't like slider ticks, so in the past, when it was available, they ranked their maps with slider tick rate 0.5 making slider ticks appear only after two beats instead of every 1/1 beat with str1.

i wish i could find more beatmaps using str above 2 and custom slider ticks but unfortunately they are very difficult find because tick rate is not a setting that can be searched like "od=9" "ar=10" (but that also shows how "irrelevant" this setting is, changing the AR OD CS HP by 1 have much more significant impact on gameplay than changing the slider tick rate)

so let's just imagine a map that has 1/3 rhythm, the "correct" slider tick rate would be 3, right?
WRONG .... most of the 1/3 songs don't have that many sounds landing on 1/3 ticks, usually only 40%~70% of the song supports str3 but no one complains about str3 if the mapper decides to use str3. music using 1/3 rhythm are minority, so if they can't use str3 on songs using 1/3 rhythm then where are they going to use? meanwhile, music with 1/4 rhythm are majority, but people usually go for 1/1 because they don't like slider ticks, or because they don't want slider ticks for the parts without 1/4 sounds (even knowing that silencing slider ticks are rankeable, they might just not want to have to mess with green lines), or they simply would want to map the parts where the slider ticks could be used.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/14624 that James map i showed to everyone is a good exemple. str3 was used only in normal, because he needed it there, and decided to mess with green lines to silence the parts that he didn't want to hear the ticks. James did not used str3 on the harder difficulty, even knowing that it was very fitting, the sounds he thought that are important were mapped normally, and instead, he used slider tick rate 0,5?
He simply don't like slider ticks, only used for normal because it was necessary and he knew that slider tick rate is to be used according to his own needs.

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/81060 why didn't DJPop used slider tick rate 3 on his normal? if slider tick rate is something that's supposed to be fitting the song then he might have made a mistake on his normal or on the harder diffs? and what about the max combo? normal have much smaller max combo than the higher diffs, max combo is an issue, right? NO... if he decided that str1 is more fitting for his normal then taking the combo in consideration would be stupid.
btw i have nothing but respect for DJPop and Winter Bells is my favorite Christmas map of all times, and one of my favorites maps in general, but to be honest, when i think about it, str3 doesn't really sounds that great for the most part of the song, he and CDFA needed str3 for their custom hitsounds on "Hard" and "CDFA's difficulty" but the insane doesn't have the same spots with custom slider ticks, he could have used slider tick rate 1 if he wanted, but he didn't so it's fine.

Slider tick rate 0,5 was removed from the editor ages ago, now it can only be activated editing the .osu file, so using str0,5 is discouraged (or unrankeable?) but slider tick rate 4 and 3 are still usable in the editor, that means higher tick rate is not discouraged.

slider tick rate can not be changed, we can only use one slider tick rate per difficulty, and it's not like it was not a feature that was requested before t/47451&start=0
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=4694&hilit=slider+tick+rate
it's been 9 years....if the Developers wanted to add this feature then it would be added already. why do you think that silencing slider ticks is rankeable?

conclusion: slider tick rate can be whatever the map/mapper needs/wants as long as it makes at least one little bit of sense.

i'm not using slider tick rate 4 because i think it's superior to the other tick rates, it's just because it's necessary.
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a lot of people were trying to convince me that sb'ed sounds are superior to slider tick hitsouds, and some people even mock me for relying so much on the ranking criteria. if the ranking criteria is not important, then why is the staff wasting their time improving it constantly?

yes, i know it's relatively easy to make a rankeable mapset, the ranking criteria is actually very easy to be followed. but why the staff keep it so easy to be followed? because it's to force mappers to keep using the "fundamentals" while not limiting their creativity.
limiting creativity is exactly what's happening here.

by "creativity" i don't mean that what i'm doing is innovative, james and djpop already did that before me, and probably a lot more people did that too, but this is still something that is at least very unusual for nowadays, that is clearly rankeable, and i did it very well. but instead of being praised for making good use of an unusual mapping technique, i'm only getting negative comments and being suggested to only do "more of the same".
VINXIS
ur method of persuasion is bad honestlyyyyyyyy
wouldnt say slider tickrate 4 is bad for the map but it definitely isnt ur best option Tbh



wots actually bad is ur ncing please REMOVEEEEE ALL BLUE TICK NCS P L E A S E WTF
Topic Starter
pimp
reminder: anyone interested in joining the discussion at least bring valid arguments, only saying that you don't agree with something without valid arguments makes your opinion meaningless.
VINXIS
Hello.

I assume you mean reasoning instead of arguments as saying you do not agree with something is an argument; however, as to what you think is a valid reason is questionable, and you may need to explain as to why the reason is invalid (for example, stating why the person's reason does not hold up).

The slider tick 4 that you currently have is fine I guess, but it is definitely not the best option that you have. Mapping them out and changing your hitsounding patterns is better mostly because you are trying to map to one thing while hitsounding to something completely different... that itself will confuse players in the first place!

May I ask, what is your definition of new comboing? From what I see, you may have a definition of new comboing which holds comboing in general at a low pedestal considering the colossal amount of inconsistencies and blue tick NCs



is this ok pimpGsenpai OwOwowowowo


- VINXIS
tryin to make a change :-\
Topic Starter
pimp
you might think that what i say is questionable but it doesn't changes the fact that what i did is rankeable so everything is valid until someone proves otherwise, but no one explained why my stuff is not acceptable... you didn't even explain why you think what i say is questionable...

if slider tick rate 4 is fine, then it's fine. people is free to suggest whatever they want but the mapper decides what to do with the suggestions.
there is no need to worry about the players, if they miss notes it's their own fault for not being skilled enough, they just have to learn and adapt, there is nothing confusing about the way i mapped, and i don't see how keeping hitsound consistency could make players confused, if they miss it's their own fault, i mapped in a way that makes sense to the song, that's all that matters.

nowadays most of the maps are made to confuse players, actually. anyone that is too worried about the weaker players can simply map easy normal and a friendly hard. my map is a Marathon but it's clearly an Insane level (i will probably rename it to Lunatic next update), it's supposed to be a bit challenging, the difficulty is named "Lunatic" for a reason, my map is easier than the average Lunatic/Insane anyway.

the blue ticks are there to be mapped, the slider ticks are there to be customized or whatever, the settings are there to be used.

really, since when using new combos on blue ticks is a bad thing? you could possibly be the type of mapper that thinks that the only fitting spots to use new combos are on main beats, for all songs. you are the only one so far that's making this a big deal.
i use new combo where i think that it works better regardless of the color of the tick, i don't map the song thinking on the spots where i wiill use new combos or hitsounds so sometimes i find limitations to my new combo usage, i use shorter combos where it makes sense.

if my new combos bothers you that much then make a detailed new combo mod, i give you a more detailed explanation, and even if i don't fix anything i will give you kudosu.
VINXIS
Hello.

No. I said that what you consider a reason to be "valid" is questionable because you never explicitly stated what you define a "valid reason" to be... I never said that any of your statements are questionable, only what you consider an object to be defined as. Please do not put words into my mouth!

- VINXIS
tryin to make a change :-\
Topic Starter
pimp
i wrote walls of text of valid arguments already in page 4 and a significant number of skilled mappers also were able to understand (and approve) what i did easily. while the people who are against me using slider tick rate 4 says nothing but "it's not good" "it's not fitting" "i don't like it" "just agree with the BN's already" i don't consider those valid arguments.

it's not good = that's subjective, everyone has it's own opinion on what's good or not.

it's not fitting = the song has 1/4 rhythm so it is fitting. i have a lot of ticks silenced because i don't need them, silencing ticks is rankeable and the developers show no interest of allowing beatmaps to have different slider tick rates per green line, and this was a feature that has been requested 9 years ago.

i don't like it = the beatmap was not made specifically to you, it's my map, i like it and other people will like it, i made sure that everything is rankeable.

you should just agree with the BN's = i don't need to reply to trolls or people who don't have their own opinion (but i still did).
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btw "best option" to map something does not exists, beatmapping is like expressing how you feel the song, everyone can have their own way to express their understanding of the song, this is how i feel about the song and that's it.

you already said that tick rate 4 is fine for you, and you don't look like you are going to make that detailed new combo mod, so we are probably done discussing.

thanks for the feedback
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