Depending on the player's skin, these notes can be almost silent (this is my case) which is really disturbing since the previous notes are quite loud

It seems like a slipup from adding green lines and not intended

Please don't meme.

I'll fix that. I'll wait for alacat cuz I want to double check the source too.

dq

as request

fixed!

ok, will re-qualify after nine hours need to wait 24 hours after qualify https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5388480/

alacat wrote:

I don't know why only 45% volume in Excruciating Extra diff. But i can hear sounds/hit sounds when i'm playing. If Monstrata wants to fix this, pls poke me :p

not nearly as extreme as his 85% > 20% volume drops in Path of Wind :p

Those were intentional tho xD. This one's just a mistake when changing volumes. Initially the normal-hitclap was super loud so i reduced he volume in game, but then i reduced the volume of the hitsound itself so I didnt have to reduce the hit-normal volume for that section lol.

anyways, if its inaudible on your skin thats not really my problem. but the inconsistency is worth ironing out

Back!

griffith still did nothing wrong

gz pls rank this time

Monstrata....

WHY YOU DONT EDIT THE MP3 D:<

qual

Are you fucking joking?

Usually, I just look at these maps, take it up the ass and play older ones where I could actually stand it, but shown by this map 2016 is an absolute shit show of bad maps and I just seen one of the worst of all. Lets take a look

[Eclipse]

Theres nothing more to say about this map than throw it in the fucking graveyard, but just to humor myself. Ill explain my thoughts anyway.

The beginning is okay, up until this part.

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - What is this spacing and WHY is it intensifying so much? The song here has NO change in intensity, and the hitsounds barely make it intensified either. I agree with the whole "lets space it out as the jumps move forth," but dont make the god damn jumps across the screen, literally ONLY going for difficulty and I've never seen it more blatant.

00:19:151 (1) - From this note in the stream forth, what is the point of spacing this out more? Its not like the riff gets intensified more/higher in volume. Theres no reason to make this more spaced than the ones before. The guitar only calls for one spaced out section, then back to what it was. Thats how it should play from how it sounds, its a rhythm game for fucks sake.

00:21:613 (9) - Why aren't you atleast LOWERING the spacing? The intensity here is dropping yet for some reason you drop it here 00:22:536 (1) - ?

00:24:997 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - This spacing is SO inconsistent from the spacing you had in the beginning burst. Theres other ones you can find straight after too, not hard to find as its so blatant.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Hey guys, I know a great idea! You know how im only known for triangles? Yeah? So let me just add a fucking triangle pattern here, and make it have no rhythmic placement whatsoever, Haaha AHAHA memes bois!

Oh wow, that pattern is god awful, you did it so much better in previous diffs with sliders and a couple hit circles. it actually FITS. PLEASE

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I think a part of me died for the mapping community when I saw this shit can get ranked. These should not be across the screen jumps at all, because yet again its blatant difficulty mapping with no regard to the music whatsoever.

01:01:613 (1,2,3) - The intensity drops a bit here, so why does it increase in difficulty? Hmm.....I think that ones obvious.

01:17:920 (1) - From this point on, any ounce of consistency you may of had dropped to an all time 0% because this stream isn't intensified in any way, literally the same exact riff from the beginning, and worst of all, its not even intensified by a kiai time???

BUT WAIT IM NOT DONE WITH THAT STREAM

01:21:920 (1) - OH LOOK this note is the start of the exact same spacing as the previous stream before the spacing increase supported by the song, but you didnt do that earlier? What was the point of that??? It seems here you just thought you couldn't get away with more spacing it seems.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - yay more across the screen jumps. Kill me.

[Tortured Soul Extra]

A little more bareable of a diff for me, but still not great enough for ranking in my eyes.

00:15:613 (2) - This stream forth the biggest problem I have with this is the awkwardness of these stream pauses. I feel it'd be so much better to be using repeat sliders.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - These are so bad for a pattern, they make no sense and is so gimmicky in a map that has literally no other gimmick, I have no idea why you'd put these here in this way, again like earlier. SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS. I've seen you use them nicely before, they'd fit here perfectly.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I dont even have to say anything, you know what im going to say. (*Cough* screen jumps *cough*)

01:17:920 (1) - The structure is well done comparative to the beginning, the spacing should stay atleast consistent, its literally no different from earlier.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Honestly, I dont mind this one as much, its so much better than across the screen jumps.

[Tragic Death Extra]

00:13:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Eh, something about this pattern doesnt seem right and again the spacing is horrid.

00:15:459 (1) - Comparative to the diff above this, this is so much better of a way to reduce difficulty and making it not play like absolute shit.

00:18:843 (9,10) - These feel pretty awkward playability wise.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is so much better than the diff above, but still super awkward for a map that you developed this to be. In both this diff and the last, you hype the map up with these intense jump patterns, yet for some reason these are so underwhelmingly close to each other. Im not saying increase the spacing a shit ton, but increase it a LITTLE bit, nothing insane. Make visible patterns, but dont make them over exaggerated. This is definitely a place to have low spacing, but not a place to have intense spacing. This section, just like the diff above is a massive flow breaker and needs fixing.

01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing so bad, too much spacing here.

01:18:228 (1) - This section forth for the streams, they're beautiful, this is how it SHOULD be mapped, its perfect this way.

[Final Thoughts]

I will say right now that I bare no hard feelings toward you, and im more concerned and very annoyed at this mapset for its ridiculously high star rating for such a song like this. Im sorry, theres no other way I can put this, but this is like an attention seeker map, this is only made to be difficult, and like an attention seeker, its so fucking obvious. You honestly should've stopped at Tragic Death Extra.

The reasoning behind Tragic Death Extra being a stopping point is it has patterns that are most definitely iffy, but they're fixable, the ones above are blatantly going for difficulty, and the way its mapped is massively pushing it. Tragic Death pushes it a bit, but the next ones upward are so blatantly trying to go for difficulty that its actually saddening to see it.

Although, you may not take most of my suggestions into consideration, I am only trying to get my own opinion, despite it most definitely being unpopular of an opinion, which makes it even harder to make a post so upfront and oppressive to current metas. I only wish you the best of luck on this mapset. No hard feelings toward you again, I definitely tried to tone my mod town as I went forth.

Best of luck.

- Spoon

Oh wow a post count 66 mod that is aggressive as fuck, wow. You know so much about mapping!

Aaand no ranked maps. Yeah, knew that critique was pointless. Usually is when its' so aggressive.

Fezu wrote:

Oh wow a post count 66 mod that is aggressive as fuck, wow. You know so much about mapping!

to be fair you don't know much either, so i don't know why you're trying to counter-aggro

giving some points from my point of view on the top diff but i understand if you disagree with them:

• od 10 seems pretty overkill imo but i can't really argue against it
  00:02:228 (9) - 1/4 slider might fit better here? rhythm calls for it, sort of
  00:04:074 (9) - ^
  00:05:920 (9) - ^
  00:16:074 (1,2,3,4) - this could use a bit more spacing for the guitar
  00:16:997 (1,2,3,4) - ^
  00:19:766 (1,2,3,4) - ^ ya basically every section like this tbh
  00:23:151 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - stuff like this that isn't really intensified might be better off with some sliders in between?
  00:38:536 (2,3,4) - nc these? pretty spread out so nc would be good for aesthetics and stuffzz
  00:47:305 (5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - streams like this could be better with some distance snap variation imo, having it all the same is pretty bland playing-wise
  01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - pretty overkill for a non-intense part of the song tbh
  01:14:843 (1,1) - remove ncs?
  
  as for the final stream i feel like it should have nc's every 8th note instead of 12th note (and nc the 4 note stream left over) and space it accordingly to that, for example 01:23:459 (9,10,11,12) - these notes are pretty intense compared to the stream before it and should be nc'd on the 9th note and spaced out a bit more, personal opinion tho

pretty alright map though

@Shiny Spoon Please avoid being aggresive when you do a mod. It will not help too much to the mapper.

second disqualify coming?

fieryrage wrote:

Fezu wrote:

Oh wow a post count 66 mod that is aggressive as fuck, wow. You know so much about mapping!

to be fair you don't know much either, so i don't know why you're trying to counter-aggro

giving some points from my point of view on the top diff but i understand if you disagree with them:

• od 10 seems pretty overkill imo but i can't really argue against it
  00:02:228 (9) - 1/4 slider might fit better here? rhythm calls for it, sort of
  00:04:074 (9) - ^
  00:05:920 (9) - ^
  00:16:074 (1,2,3,4) - this could use a bit more spacing for the guitar
  00:16:997 (1,2,3,4) - ^
  00:19:766 (1,2,3,4) - ^ ya basically every section like this tbh
  00:23:151 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - stuff like this that isn't really intensified might be better off with some sliders in between?

fuck i posted this early nice ill edit this in a sec with the full mod

Well, I honestly feel the need to point out if you feel like critiqueing something you should try and post what you don't like in a proper and respectful manner and not go on a rant.

Also honestly? He's the same as me, No ranked maps mean you know shit about mapping.

It raises concerns even though it's rude and everyone's opinions are relevant during qualification

Fezu wrote:

Well, I honestly feel the need to point out if you feel like critiqueing something you should try and post what you don't like in a proper and respectful manner and not go on a rant.

Also honestly? He's the same as me, No ranked maps mean you know shit about mapping.

I originally wasn't going to respond, but I want to take a moment to clarify my feeling towards Monstrata and what I feel mapping is.

Mapping to me is something thats supposed to be fun and not supposed to be about ranking. I take ranking something that comes as a bonus to mapping, but not necessary. I map mostly for the graveyard, I never try for rank ever.

Now the meaning behind this post? Well, quite frankly it is most definitely a rant based mod, because if you take a minute to open your eyes and realize this isnt the first time its been done by not only monstrata, but other mappers as well. You'd start to see it more my way, that this is unacceptable.

EDIT: The only approach I saw to a mod for a map like this, is to take a very blunt and direct one. I cant just take his hand and slowly walk him across the street like hes a small child. As a mapper, and how I feel as a mapper, you should be ready for HARSH criticism, but its criticism none the less and should be taken into consideration.

Battle wrote:

It raises concerns even though it's rude and everyone's opinions are relevant during qualification

I just find it a bit odd that a tone like that is allowed, then again this is a controversial map. Just like every other high star rating Monstrata map.

Guess it brings out the worst in mappers who find it disgusting, I can understand that tbh.

I'll take a more detailed look when I get home, but it seems you generally aren't pleased with the way I use spacing and DS in my map. Unfortunately we'll just have to disagree on that. I'm happy to provide better reasons and logic behind these spacings. However, I don't plan on changing anything unless it's a mistake on my part, like the volume dq earlier. (Of course, since I don't have osu on atm, I can't judge, so give me an hour first to get home).

Shiny Spoon wrote:

Fezu wrote:

Well, I honestly feel the need to point out if you feel like critiqueing something you should try and post what you don't like in a proper and respectful manner and not go on a rant.

Also honestly? He's the same as me, No ranked maps mean you know shit about mapping.

I originally wasn't going to respond, but I want to take a moment to clarify my feeling towards Monstrata and what I feel mapping is.

Mapping to me is something thats supposed to be fun and not supposed to be about ranking. I take ranking something that comes as a bonus to mapping, but not necessary. I map mostly for the graveyard, I never try for rank ever.

Now the meaning behind this post? Well, quite frankly it is most definitely a rant based mod, because if you take a minute to open your eyes and realize this isnt the first time its been done by not only monstrata, but other mappers as well. You'd start to see it more my way, that this is unacceptable.

EDIT: The only approach I saw to a mod for a map like this, is to take a very blunt and direct one. I cant just take his hand and slowly walk him across the street like hes a small child. As a mapper, and how I feel as a mapper, you should be ready for HARSH criticism, but its criticism none the less and should be taken into consideration.

I think osu! is past the point of caring about bad maps being ranked.

Doesn't help the system is rigged when meme mappers like Vinxis or Monstrata has free reign and contacts that can get maps ranked within 2-4 pages of mods.

Then there's the asians which has free reign to add TV size maps whenever they feel like it.

You realize your rant post is against a system you can't beat right, give up. It's over. The system is completely and absolutely fucked. Just enjoy the game.

If you have nothing relevant to say about the map, please don't clog the thread up with irrelevant stuff about each other

Perhaps there is a better place to discuss the ranking criteria..

Anyways @fieryrage if you want to mod, I'd appreciate your perspective on quaver more tbh xD. I'm ranking that soon.

Monstrata wrote:

Anyways @fieryrage if you want to mod, I'd appreciate your perspective on quaver more tbh xD. I'm ranking that soon.

ait got it

-snip-

Do you mind elaborating on those diffnames? I can't really put excruciating, tragic death and tortured soul into a context

Irreversible wrote:

Do you mind elaborating on those diffnames? I can't really put excruciating, tragic death and tortured soul into a context

Well Berserk is all about suffering, so I guess its' supposed to be following the scale of suffering from mild to absolutely fucking fucked up which is The Eclipse.

Fezu wrote:

Doesn't help the system is rigged when meme mappers like Vinxis or Monstrata has free reign and contacts that can get maps ranked within 2-4 pages of mods.

any1 tht isnt garbo at mapping can get ther mapz ranked within 2-4 pages of modz if they wanted 2 helo.. : /

lets talk if u wana on osU but im watchin anime rn so la ter,

Sotarks wrote:

chill guys~

The diff names show a progression of pain. Past Excruciating they also relate to the plot of Berserk. Hopefully this doesn't spoil too much, but basically the "Tragic Death" isn't the end for the main character, and they have to continue living, hence why Tortured Soul is even more difficult, whereas usually you'd consider "death" the last difficulty in a spread ostensibly related to pain.

Painful > Blistering > Traumatized > Agonizing > Excruciating all tell the feeling of pain throughout the series, culminating in Tragic Death, Tortured Souls, and of course, the Eclipse, where life, death, and rebirth meet.

Monstrata wrote:

I'll take a more detailed look when I get home, but it seems you generally aren't pleased with the way I use spacing and DS in my map. Unfortunately we'll just have to disagree on that. I'm happy to provide better reasons and logic behind these spacings. However, I don't plan on changing anything unless it's a mistake on my part, like the volume dq earlier. (Of course, since I don't have osu on atm, I can't judge, so give me an hour first to get home).

Dropping back in to see whats gone on after my post, and this would be preferred. I'd like to hear some kind of explaination as to why these 'problems' exist. Dependent on opinions, I think from this point on controversial (or in this case, more subjective) subjects like what I placed in my rant/mod should be open for major discussion in a civil manor (more pointing towards myself) . I feel theres much more to this that should be said and providing reasons and your own logic to these spacings would be a good start for this possibility of a discussion.

Shiny Spoon wrote:

Are you fucking joking? My sincerest of apologies.

Usually, I just look at these maps, take it up the ass and play older ones where I could actually stand it, but shown by this map 2016 is an absolute shit show of bad maps and I just seen one of the worst of all. Lets take a look I'm terribly sorry you think that.

[Eclipse]

Theres nothing more to say about this map than throw it in the fucking graveyard, but just to humor myself. Ill explain my thoughts anyway. I look forward to your thoughtful explanations, and I wish to thank you beforehand for your invaluable time and effort.

The beginning is okay, up until this part. Great!

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - What is this spacing and WHY is it intensifying so much? The song here has NO change in intensity, and the hitsounds barely make it intensified either. I agree with the whole "lets space it out as the jumps move forth," but dont make the god damn jumps across the screen, literally ONLY going for difficulty and I've never seen it more blatant. I'm so sorry for having been so blatant. I do enjoy using spacing to create an intensity spike, and I strongly believe such a technique works here. In my most honest of opinions, I believe that the pitch of the vocal combined with the song's lead-in to a super-intense stream section allow me to use such a spacing technique.

00:19:151 (1) - From this note in the stream forth, what is the point of spacing this out more? Its not like the riff gets intensified more/higher in volume. Theres no reason to make this more spaced than the ones before. The guitar only calls for one spaced out section, then back to what it was. Thats how it should play from how it sounds, its a rhythm game for fucks sake. Ah. An excellent observation. My intention here is simply to create a more difficult counterpart to the first iteration of those streams. I think the increase in spacing past 00:18:228 - prepare to player for an increase in spacing. I do apologize for having offended you with my spacing, however.

00:21:613 (9) - Why aren't you atleast LOWERING the spacing? The intensity here is dropping yet for some reason you drop it here 00:22:536 (1) - ? I don't believe the intensity has quite dropped yet. In my most humblest of opinions, I think my spacing reflects how I feel the instruments are being expressed here. I decided to change spacing only when the guitar became inaudible. Sorry for not having explained this in my beatmap description. I do humbly apologize.

00:24:997 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - This spacing is SO inconsistent from the spacing you had in the beginning burst. Theres other ones you can find straight after too, not hard to find as its so blatant. I do believe that the intensity of the song here in a verse section is slightly different from the song during its intense introduction. My deepest apologies for so blatantly mapping two different sections of a song differently.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Hey guys, I know a great idea! You know how im only known for triangles? Yeah? So let me just add a fucking triangle pattern here, and make it have no rhythmic placement whatsoever, Haaha AHAHA memes bois! I sincerely apologize for mapping these triangles. They were obviously in poor trigonometric taste. I do believe the spacing rhythm I created here is unique, and different from the regular or "normal" rhythm of the song, and personally I find it enjoyable to play. I apologize again that you found it so offensive.

Oh wow, that pattern is god awful, you did it so much better in previous diffs with sliders and a couple hit circles. it actually FITS. PLEASE Please do forgive me for I have sinned.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I think a part of me died for the mapping community when I saw this shit can get ranked. These should not be across the screen jumps at all, because yet again its blatant difficulty mapping with no regard to the music whatsoever. Sorry. Really, that is all I can say. Sorry for causing you such an offense with my spacing concept. However, like earlier, I believe the song's intensity can indeed be accentuated through these spacing increases. Honestly though, I meant you no harm, and I do beg you for your forgiveness here once again.

01:01:613 (1,2,3) - The intensity drops a bit here, so why does it increase in difficulty? Hmm.....I think that ones obvious. I'm sorry I missed something so obvious. Perhaps I just didn't think the intensity dropped here. Accept my apologies... please!

01:17:920 (1) - From this point on, any ounce of consistency you may of had dropped to an all time 0% because this stream isn't intensified in any way, literally the same exact riff from the beginning, and worst of all, its not even intensified by a kiai time??? I'm sorry for not putting Kiai time here. I simply didn't wish for there to be any Kiai time on this song. I do believe the intensity is conveyed through the spacedness, however I completely understand your disposition toward spaced streams.

BUT WAIT IM NOT DONE WITH THAT STREAM Thank you. I am forever in debt to your guidance.

01:21:920 (1) - OH LOOK this note is the start of the exact same spacing as the previous stream before the spacing increase supported by the song, but you didnt do that earlier? What was the point of that??? It seems here you just thought you couldn't get away with more spacing it seems. I'm sorry for not spacing it more. I simply believed that this was the full extent of the song's intensity. I'm sorry for not overstepping my boundaries and spacing it even further.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - yay more across the screen jumps. Kill me. Yes, please, thank you. And sorry again.

[Tortured Soul Extra]

A little more bareable of a diff for me, but still not great enough for ranking in my eyes. I'm glad you found it more bareable. I too found the difficulty more bearable and I hope your concerns reflect that.

00:15:613 (2) - This stream forth the biggest problem I have with this is the awkwardness of these stream pauses. I feel it'd be so much better to be using repeat sliders. My apologies. Let me explain this better. I simply wished to have a jump between the guitar note, and the guitar scale. I hope this helps in clearing up our misconceptions. Thank you for allowing me this humble opportunity to do so.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - These are so bad for a pattern, they make no sense and is so gimmicky in a map that has literally no other gimmick, I have no idea why you'd put these here in this way, again like earlier. SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS. I've seen you use them nicely before, they'd fit here perfectly. I do believe that the change in spacing occurs naturally if you were to listen closely to the song. The stacks with different New Combo's (New Combo's are shorthanded as NC's) also aide this effect.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I dont even have to say anything, you know what im going to say. (*Cough* screen jumps *cough*) I am terribly sorry for causing you such respiratory harm through these jumps. Like earlier, I do believe such an increase is warranted.

01:17:920 (1) - The structure is well done comparative to the beginning, the spacing should stay atleast consistent, its literally no different from earlier. I do believe the sound here is different from what comes after. However I do apologize for mapping two different sounds to two different spacing's regardless.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Honestly, I dont mind this one as much, its so much better than across the screen jumps. Thank you kindly for your warm words.

[Tragic Death Extra]

00:13:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Eh, something about this pattern doesnt seem right and again the spacing is horrid. I'm terribly sorry. I believe the placements play well though.

00:15:459 (1) - Comparative to the diff above this, this is so much better of a way to reduce difficulty and making it not play like absolute shit. My deepest gratitude at these hopeful words. I'm relieved to hear that this interpretation of the streams has found favor in your eyes.

00:18:843 (9,10) - These feel pretty awkward playability wise. My apologies. They flow the way I wanted them to, and create a nice snapping structure, however I'm terribly sorry for having caused you such awkward feelings.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is so much better than the diff above, but still super awkward for a map that you developed this to be. In both this diff and the last, you hype the map up with these intense jump patterns, yet for some reason these are so underwhelmingly close to each other. Im not saying increase the spacing a shit ton, but increase it a LITTLE bit, nothing insane. Make visible patterns, but dont make them over exaggerated. This is definitely a place to have low spacing, but not a place to have intense spacing. This section, just like the diff above is a massive flow breaker and needs fixing. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I believe what I have works well though, and I think here, I would prefer to stray away from the "norm" and present these kinds of interesting spacing's and arrangements instead. I believe the section is quite unique to the music, and I thank you again for allowing me to tap into your wellspring of knowledge.

01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing so bad, too much spacing here. I do apologize once again.

01:18:228 (1) - This section forth for the streams, they're beautiful, this is how it SHOULD be mapped, its perfect this way. I have no words but eternal gratitude and thanksgiving.

[Final Thoughts]

I will say right now that I bare no hard feelings toward you, and im more concerned and very annoyed at this mapset for its ridiculously high star rating for such a song like this. Im sorry, theres no other way I can put this, but this is like an attention seeker map, this is only made to be difficult, and like an attention seeker, its so fucking obvious. You honestly should've stopped at Tragic Death Extra.

The reasoning behind Tragic Death Extra being a stopping point is it has patterns that are most definitely iffy, but they're fixable, the ones above are blatantly going for difficulty, and the way its mapped is massively pushing it. Tragic Death pushes it a bit, but the next ones upward are so blatantly trying to go for difficulty that its actually saddening to see it.

Although, you may not take most of my suggestions into consideration, I am only trying to get my own opinion, despite it most definitely being unpopular of an opinion, which makes it even harder to make a post so upfront and oppressive to current metas. I only wish you the best of luck on this mapset. No hard feelings toward you again, I definitely tried to tone my mod town as I went forth.

Best of luck.

- Spoon

Red: Keep, sorry, but I took your suggestion to heart and will continue to build on it in future maps. Sorry I could not apply it to this section in particular.

Green: Also keep.

Thank you so much for this mod. I'm sorry for having offended you to such an extent.

Monstrata wrote:

Red: Keep, sorry, but I took your suggestion to heart and will continue to build on it in future maps. Sorry I could not apply it to this section in particular.

Green: Also keep.

Savage confirmed

fieryrage wrote:

Fezu wrote:

Oh wow a post count 66 mod that is aggressive as fuck, wow. You know so much about mapping!

to be fair you don't know much either, so i don't know why you're trying to counter-aggro

giving some points from my point of view on the top diff but i understand if you disagree with them:

• od 10 seems pretty overkill imo but i can't really argue against it
  00:02:228 (9) - 1/4 slider might fit better here? rhythm calls for it, sort of I think 1/2 slider is better so theres a more consistent rhythm that transitions out of the streams and into the next pattern. Would apply to all. Using a kickslider kinda creates this 1/1 gap that I don't enjoy ever, given the spacing xP. And using two kicksliders feels like its forcing the rhythm for some of these cases below, and I'd prefer to be more consistent in that respect (rhythm wise) since I already take liberties with spacing.
  00:04:074 (9) - ^
  00:05:920 (9) - ^
  00:16:074 (1,2,3,4) - this could use a bit more spacing for the guitar I'd prefer to just map the guitar shift to a shift in the stream. I generally don't like mapping spacing changes that are under 5 circles long. It's just not something I like to play since I value consistent spacing more. This is definitely something to consider for wubby style maps though, where short spacing changes would definitely help.
  00:16:997 (1,2,3,4) - ^
  00:19:766 (1,2,3,4) - ^ ya basically every section like this tbh
  00:23:151 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - stuff like this that isn't really intensified might be better off with some sliders in between? I want circles here for the drum. The spacing is already quite small. I think using sliders is unnecessary.
  00:38:536 (2,3,4) - nc these? pretty spread out so nc would be good for aesthetics and stuffzz Due to the length between these, I'd like to keep the NC for the follow point. I think the only diff where I don't do this is one of the lower extras, Excruciating i think? cuz theres a symmetrical slider pattern being used instead of circles.
  00:47:305 (5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - streams like this could be better with some distance snap variation imo, having it all the same is pretty bland playing-wise I prefer to focus more on the angle change and overlaps here.
  01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - pretty overkill for a non-intense part of the song tbh This is one of the highlights of the song for me.
  01:14:843 (1,1) - remove ncs? I think it's better to NC here so players are more aware of the rhythm due to a lack of follow points.
  
  as for the final stream i feel like it should have nc's every 8th note instead of 12th note (and nc the 4 note stream left over) and space it accordingly to that, for example 01:23:459 (9,10,11,12) - these notes are pretty intense compared to the stream before it and should be nc'd on the 9th note and spaced out a bit more, personal opinion tho I prefer every 12, it fits more rhythmically imo.

pretty alright map though

Thanks fieryrage!

00:15:459 - Why is this stream section so much easier than 01:18:228 when its quite literally the same thing in the song? This map plays so forced and the difficulty just spikes at random spots without reason when the song is really quite basic with 2 or 3 different intensities.

Smoothie World wrote:

00:15:459 - Why is this stream section so much easier than 01:18:228 when its quite literally the same thing in the song? This map plays so forced and the difficulty just spikes at random spots without reason when the song is really quite basic with 2 or 3 different intensities.

It just doesn't feel appropriate to put the most difficult patterns within the first 15 seconds of the map. Also, when a section is completely repeated later, i like to give the earlier iteration less spacing, and the later one more emphasis in order to create some contrast, as well as intensity increase. It's not reflected in the song, yes. It's really my interpretation of it. Same section = same spacing is good sometimes, but I personally find it boring when its a really intense section that's being repeated.

After reading your post, im going to present a counter argument. (Despite your posts heavy sarcasm)

Monstrata wrote:

Shiny Spoon wrote:

Are you fucking joking? My sincerest of apologies.

Usually, I just look at these maps, take it up the ass and play older ones where I could actually stand it, but shown by this map 2016 is an absolute shit show of bad maps and I just seen one of the worst of all. Lets take a look I'm terribly sorry you think that.

[Eclipse]

Theres nothing more to say about this map than throw it in the fucking graveyard, but just to humor myself. Ill explain my thoughts anyway. I look forward to your thoughtful explanations, and I wish to thank you beforehand for your invaluable time and effort.

The beginning is okay, up until this part. Great!

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - What is this spacing and WHY is it intensifying so much? The song here has NO change in intensity, and the hitsounds barely make it intensified either. I agree with the whole "lets space it out as the jumps move forth," but dont make the god damn jumps across the screen, literally ONLY going for difficulty and I've never seen it more blatant. I'm so sorry for having been so blatant. I do enjoy using spacing to create an intensity spike, and I strongly believe such a technique works here. In my most honest of opinions, I believe that the pitch of the vocal combined with the song's lead-in to a super-intense stream section allow me to use such a spacing technique.

You bring up a good point on the vocals leading into a stream sections, but from what I hear, the intensity of the vocals raises up to about 00:12:843 (2) - here, but it drops as the voice gets a bit quieter. until about here 00:14:228 (5) - , where it raises in intensity again, which is where spacing should be raised higher. So biased off the vocals. The jump section, using your technique, should go spaced out more, shorter spacing, then back to higher. The instrumental portion of this section generally doesn't change up until your stream section.

00:19:151 (1) - From this note in the stream forth, what is the point of spacing this out more? Its not like the riff gets intensified more/higher in volume. Theres no reason to make this more spaced than the ones before. The guitar only calls for one spaced out section, then back to what it was. Thats how it should play from how it sounds, its a rhythm game for fucks sake. Ah. An excellent observation. My intention here is simply to create a more difficult counterpart to the first iteration of those streams. I think the increase in spacing past 00:18:228 - prepare to player for an increase in spacing. I do apologize for having offended you with my spacing, however.

You say the increase in spacing prepares the player for an increase in spacing, but how? The section straight after is very close together for the most part, with no ease into the jumps.

00:21:613 (9) - Why aren't you atleast LOWERING the spacing? The intensity here is dropping yet for some reason you drop it here 00:22:536 (1) - ? I don't believe the intensity has quite dropped yet. In my most humblest of opinions, I think my spacing reflects how I feel the instruments are being expressed here. I decided to change spacing only when the guitar became inaudible. Sorry for not having explained this in my beatmap description. I do humbly apologize.

Fair enough. I agree.

00:24:997 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - This spacing is SO inconsistent from the spacing you had in the beginning burst. Theres other ones you can find straight after too, not hard to find as its so blatant. I do believe that the intensity of the song here in a verse section is slightly different from the song during its intense introduction. My deepest apologies for so blatantly mapping two different sections of a song differently.

Again, fair enough. I can get around this more than most parts I mentioned.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Hey guys, I know a great idea! You know how im only known for triangles? Yeah? So let me just add a fucking triangle pattern here, and make it have no rhythmic placement whatsoever, Haaha AHAHA memes bois! I sincerely apologize for mapping these triangles. They were obviously in poor trigonometric taste. I do believe the spacing rhythm I created here is unique, and different from the regular or "normal" rhythm of the song, and personally I find it enjoyable to play. I apologize again that you found it so offensive.

This section, you can hear it strain out a bit where certain hitcircles are placed, and would flow much better if there were more sliders.

Oh wow, that pattern is god awful, you did it so much better in previous diffs with sliders and a couple hit circles. it actually FITS. PLEASE Please do forgive me for I have sinned.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I think a part of me died for the mapping community when I saw this shit can get ranked. These should not be across the screen jumps at all, because yet again its blatant difficulty mapping with no regard to the music whatsoever. Sorry. Really, that is all I can say. Sorry for causing you such an offense with my spacing concept. However, like earlier, I believe the song's intensity can indeed be accentuated through these spacing increases. Honestly though, I meant you no harm, and I do beg you for your forgiveness here once again.

As stated earlier, you use the vocals as a backup to these spacings, but the same applies with the instruments, almost no intensity change, but the vocals do have intensity after this jump section. 01:03:766 (2) - Right about here, you can hear the vocals at a higher pitch than earlier when the across the screen jumps were placed, if you're trying to atleast be consistent, or going with the song in your own styles, then wouldn't that mean these would be spaced out even more?

01:01:613 (1,2,3) - The intensity drops a bit here, so why does it increase in difficulty? Hmm.....I think that ones obvious. I'm sorry I missed something so obvious. Perhaps I just didn't think the intensity dropped here. Accept my apologies... please!

Lets take a step back, despite the sarcastic comment, let me put a bit of your own perspective into why this isn't how it should be. The jumps are biased off of vocal and instrumental. So the instrumental portion drops here, the vocals drop a bit in pitch as well, and raise back up. So in your own mapping 'philosophy' that would mean the jumps lower and spread out again.

01:17:920 (1) - From this point on, any ounce of consistency you may of had dropped to an all time 0% because this stream isn't intensified in any way, literally the same exact riff from the beginning, and worst of all, its not even intensified by a kiai time??? I'm sorry for not putting Kiai time here. I simply didn't wish for there to be any Kiai time on this song. I do believe the intensity is conveyed through the spacedness, however I completely understand your disposition toward spaced streams.



BUT WAIT IM NOT DONE WITH THAT STREAM Thank you. I am forever in debt to your guidance.

01:21:920 (1) - OH LOOK this note is the start of the exact same spacing as the previous stream before the spacing increase supported by the song, but you didnt do that earlier? What was the point of that??? It seems here you just thought you couldn't get away with more spacing it seems. I'm sorry for not spacing it more. I simply believed that this was the full extent of the song's intensity. I'm sorry for not overstepping my boundaries and spacing it even further.

if you believe this is the extent of the songs intensity, considering its the same exact riff from the beginning, then why aren't they similar to each other? Theres no vocals to back the spacing up either.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - yay more across the screen jumps. Kill me. Yes, please, thank you. And sorry again.

[Tortured Soul Extra]

A little more bareable of a diff for me, but still not great enough for ranking in my eyes. I'm glad you found it more bareable. I too found the difficulty more bearable and I hope your concerns reflect that.

00:15:613 (2) - This stream forth the biggest problem I have with this is the awkwardness of these stream pauses. I feel it'd be so much better to be using repeat sliders. My apologies. Let me explain this better. I simply wished to have a jump between the guitar note, and the guitar scale. I hope this helps in clearing up our misconceptions. Thank you for allowing me this humble opportunity to do so.

In terms of playability, its really flows awkwardly, whether its the structure or the spacing in between, it plays awkwardly.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - These are so bad for a pattern, they make no sense and is so gimmicky in a map that has literally no other gimmick, I have no idea why you'd put these here in this way, again like earlier. SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS. I've seen you use them nicely before, they'd fit here perfectly. I do believe that the change in spacing occurs naturally if you were to listen closely to the song. The stacks with different New Combo's (New Combo's are shorthanded as NC's) also aide this effect.

This pattern, is something you'd see out of a gimmick map, playing it several times, and it doesnt get any less awkward. I dont know, maybe you'd know if you could actually take the time and effort to test play your songs. (if you can even pass them anyway).

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I dont even have to say anything, you know what im going to say. (*Cough* screen jumps *cough*) I am terribly sorry for causing you such respiratory harm through these jumps. Like earlier, I do believe such an increase is warranted.

Increase is warranted with a decrease as well, like I said earlier.

01:17:920 (1) - The structure is well done comparative to the beginning, the spacing should stay atleast consistent, its literally no different from earlier. I do believe the sound here is different from what comes after. However I do apologize for mapping two different sounds to two different spacing's regardless.

No, the sound is completely the same in terms of drums, which is whats most prevalent in this section.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Honestly, I dont mind this one as much, its so much better than across the screen jumps. Thank you kindly for your warm words.

[Tragic Death Extra]

00:13:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Eh, something about this pattern doesnt seem right and again the spacing is horrid. I'm terribly sorry. I believe the placements play well though.

00:15:459 (1) - Comparative to the diff above this, this is so much better of a way to reduce difficulty and making it not play like absolute shit. My deepest gratitude at these hopeful words. I'm relieved to hear that this interpretation of the streams has found favor in your eyes.

00:18:843 (9,10) - These feel pretty awkward playability wise. My apologies. They flow the way I wanted them to, and create a nice snapping structure, however I'm terribly sorry for having caused you such awkward feelings.

I dont know about this section, my only concern is the fact that it could cause a random and annoying break problem.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is so much better than the diff above, but still super awkward for a map that you developed this to be. In both this diff and the last, you hype the map up with these intense jump patterns, yet for some reason these are so underwhelmingly close to each other. Im not saying increase the spacing a shit ton, but increase it a LITTLE bit, nothing insane. Make visible patterns, but dont make them over exaggerated. This is definitely a place to have low spacing, but not a place to have intense spacing. This section, just like the diff above is a massive flow breaker and needs fixing. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I believe what I have works well though, and I think here, I would prefer to stray away from the "norm" and present these kinds of interesting spacing's and arrangements instead. I believe the section is quite unique to the music, and I thank you again for allowing me to tap into your wellspring of knowledge.

Unique, yes. For this song? No, because this feels gimmicky, and this song does feel nor sound like a gimmick song.

01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing so bad, too much spacing here. I do apologize once again.

Your mind can probably think of what I'll say here.

01:18:228 (1) - This section forth for the streams, they're beautiful, this is how it SHOULD be mapped, its perfect this way. I have no words but eternal gratitude and thanksgiving.

[Final Thoughts]

I will say right now that I bare no hard feelings toward you, and im more concerned and very annoyed at this mapset for its ridiculously high star rating for such a song like this. Im sorry, theres no other way I can put this, but this is like an attention seeker map, this is only made to be difficult, and like an attention seeker, its so fucking obvious. You honestly should've stopped at Tragic Death Extra.

The reasoning behind Tragic Death Extra being a stopping point is it has patterns that are most definitely iffy, but they're fixable, the ones above are blatantly going for difficulty, and the way its mapped is massively pushing it. Tragic Death pushes it a bit, but the next ones upward are so blatantly trying to go for difficulty that its actually saddening to see it.

Although, you may not take most of my suggestions into consideration, I am only trying to get my own opinion, despite it most definitely being unpopular of an opinion, which makes it even harder to make a post so upfront and oppressive to current metas. I only wish you the best of luck on this mapset. No hard feelings toward you again, I definitely tried to tone my mod town as I went forth.

Best of luck.

- Spoon

Red: Keep, sorry, but I took your suggestion to heart and will continue to build on it in future maps. Sorry I could not apply it to this section in particular.

Green: Also keep.

Thank you so much for this mod. I'm sorry for having offended you to such an extent.

Red = Counter Argument
Purple = Could use work.