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[invalid] Ranking/qualifying your own maps

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48
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +0
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WORSTPOLACKEU
511 posts
Joined May 2013
WORSTPOLACKEU

Sandy Hoey wrote:

If the problem is with BN, maybe instead of trying to find a wasy to get around them. Maybe we should find a way to fix the "corruption" of the system.
Corruption can't really be resolved.
I don't know, being BN isn't anything that requires much from u nowadays.. it's mostly a benefit.
I thought it's mostly like a job kinda that you apply for, atleast that's how I would take it if I applied.
So "I am not accepting BN requests atm". WTF is that answer even, you are BN, lol it's kind of something you applied for right.
Yes I could understand it once or twice but that's mostly what you get.

I don't know.. controversy and popularity wins and gets more than it should and takes time from BNs.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
The thing is, this is proposing a solution to a problem that is barely even tangentially tied to the proposed system. Giving BNs more time by requiring less circlejerk time will not lead them to modding more newbie maps.

EDIT: To extrapolate on this, "people will always gravitate towards the easiest route". If the system is weighted towards requiring a BN to mod like 10-15 maps to give their own map an icon, they'd probably just circlejerk the normal way. If it was like 5, it'd be all they did. There's no good number or way to nail down the concept to make it work in a balanced way.

The problem with BNs simply going "no time" or giving away no information or anything is due to 90% of the community falling directly on a small number of people, expecting them to answer all questions and concerns regarding beatmapping in general. It's insane. The MAT and BAT system at least provided a hierarchy where people would go to MATs for newbie tips and go to BATs for tips to refine their form. MATs could direct more complex questions to the BAT, and the BAT could offload newbie questions they've already answered so many times they regret not making a FAQ to copy+paste from.

We need more experience and more structure than just "BNs do everything, QATs sometimes enforce things". It's a really shitty dichotomy of purpose.


Mappers potentially ranking their own maps by spending their time helping others is a good theoretical idea on its own, but it is irrelevant to the problem it is trying to fix, and would require people to enforce said rules and consistently create them. That won't happen.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
The BN will still be a part of it and check the maps once qualified, the less good mappers will not have the privelege as stated in the OP, of course it would need a lot of tweaking and thinking, and I agree that BN's are vital to ensure quality, which is why they're still a part of it
The issue is that through qualifying your map yourself you create a bad situation:
Either BNs check the map within the next qualification cycle or a map with faults get ranked.
A qualification as requested by you is nothing else but a biased "I have the right to get BNs to look at my map NOW". That's bullshit. It doesn't take any workload away from BNs, it's just putting the privileged people in an extremely advantageous position with no benefit.
Aka the only one who may benefit are people like you and it's only worse than before.
Kyshiro
Elite Mapper
1,642 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Kyshiro

Shiirn wrote:

The thing is, this is proposing a solution to a problem that is barely even tangentially tied to the proposed system. Giving BNs more time by requiring less circlejerk time will not lead them to modding more newbie maps.

EDIT: To extrapolate on this, "people will always gravitate towards the easiest route". If the system is weighted towards requiring a BN to mod like 10-15 maps to give their own map an icon, they'd probably just circlejerk the normal way. If it was like 5, it'd be all they did. There's no good number or way to nail down the concept to make it work in a balanced way.

The problem with BNs simply going "no time" or giving away no information or anything is due to 90% of the community falling directly on a small number of people, expecting them to answer all questions and concerns regarding beatmapping in general. It's insane. The MAT and BAT system at least provided a hierarchy where people would go to MATs for newbie tips and go to BATs for tips to refine their form. MATs could direct more complex questions to the BAT, and the BAT could offload newbie questions they've already answered so many times they regret not making a FAQ to copy+paste from.

We need more experience and more structure than just "BNs do everything, QATs sometimes enforce things". It's a really shitty dichotomy of purpose.


Mappers potentially ranking their own maps by spending their time helping others is a good theoretical idea on its own, but it is irrelevant to the problem it is trying to fix, and would require people to enforce said rules and consistently create them. That won't happen.
Welp, we're all entitled to our own opinions
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
Revive the old BN points system and use a set number of points to icon your own map. That way BN's can't just icon all of their own maps, and they gain points by modding other maps (whether BN or regular mapper). Maybe set a 50% point reduction for modding BN maps, and set a 150% point gain for iconing mappers with 0 ranked maps.

I think a return of the point system can give some kind of structure to this idea without making it easily abusable.
Kyshiro
Elite Mapper
1,642 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Kyshiro

Endaris wrote:

The BN will still be a part of it and check the maps once qualified, the less good mappers will not have the privelege as stated in the OP, of course it would need a lot of tweaking and thinking, and I agree that BN's are vital to ensure quality, which is why they're still a part of it
The issue is that through qualifying your map yourself you create a bad situation:
Either BNs check the map within the next qualification cycle or a map with faults get ranked.
A qualification as requested by you is nothing else but a biased "I have the right to get BNs to look at my map NOW". That's bullshit. It doesn't take any workload away from BNs, it's just putting the privileged people in an extremely advantageous position with no benefit.
Aka the only one who may benefit are people like you and it's only worse than before.
Not at all, you would need a certain amount of kudosu or at least a cooldown for qualifying your own maps so there won't be a million qualified maps at once, the team that checks the then qualified maps should be a lot bigger than what the BN team is right now, and perhaps the idea of a map not getting past qualification before it has been checked by a certain amount of people could be a thing.
As for newer mappers, it does benefit them since there will be a load more people that can help them push their map further, and in order to get their own maps qualified, the ''priveleged'' ones would have to mod because they'd need a certain amount of kudosu or something similar.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
That is all incredibly vague with an extensive load of "should", "need" and all that stuff.
This idea is not concrete at all. You should base its functionality on what we have NOW, not which environment would be good to implement it into.
Kyshiro
Elite Mapper
1,642 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Kyshiro

Endaris wrote:

That is all incredibly vague with an extensive load of "should", "need" and all that stuff.
This idea is not concrete at all. You should base its functionality on what we have NOW, not which environment would be good to implement it into.
Well I'm sorry I'm not a native English speaker and do not always know how to construct the sentences and might use the wrong words. It's an idea for a better working ranking system, nothing more, nothing less.
And since they're just ideas, of course they could be improved and added upon, and of course it's all a bit vague since it's not something that can be easily put together.
Last edited by Kyshiro , edited 1 time in total.
Stjpa
886 posts
Joined July 2013
Stjpa

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

Sandy Hoey wrote:

If the problem is with BN, maybe instead of trying to find a wasy to get around them. Maybe we should find a way to fix the "corruption" of the system.
Corruption can't really be resolved.
I don't know, being BN isn't anything that requires much from u nowadays.. it's mostly a benefit.
I thought it's mostly like a job kinda that you apply for, atleast that's how I would take it if I applied.
So "I am not accepting BN requests atm". WTF is that answer even, you are BN, lol it's kind of something you applied for right.
Yes I could understand it once or twice but that's mostly what you get.

I don't know.. controversy and popularity wins and gets more than it should and takes time from BNs.
Sorry that I'm posting something that is not completely related to thos topic, but...
What the hell are you even expecting from BNs? Do you even know how many requests they get daily? How many good mappers are out there? All I see here and ingame is how you rant over the BNG because they are not looking at your map that "should" be easy to qualify as Irre etc said. So what? Maybe do something to get them dude. Bur ranting over the BNG everywhere doesn't help you at all, the BNs mostly start hating you and ignoring you because you think they are your icon machines. They can solely decide what map they want to nominate and what maps they don't want to nominate. If they don't take requests because they are busy (yeah guess what, they have a real life and also want to enjoy other games) then let them do it ffs. They are not machiens who need to be online 24/7 and check maps.

But now to the topic:
The idea itself isn't bad at all, but how should be good mappers who know what they do be selected? By the amount of ranked maps? Voting them isn't fair for example as people who do a lot of hard maps (Monstrata, Fort and so on) have a ton of fanboys and would definitely vote for them. I'm not implying that they are bad mappers or anything, but in the end only mappers who really get famous (by mapping hard stuff) will be able to do that. And I'm sure we have a lot of mappers who prefer mapping lower diffs and can't do harder maps. They will definitely be forgotten, which is a flaw.
Last edited by Stjpa , edited 2 times in total.
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

Corruption can't really be resolved.
I don't know, being BN isn't anything that requires much from u nowadays.. it's mostly a benefit.
I thought it's mostly like a job kinda that you apply for, atleast that's how I would take it if I applied.
So "I am not accepting BN requests atm". WTF is that answer even, you are BN, lol it's kind of something you applied for right.
Yes I could understand it once or twice but that's mostly what you get.

I don't know.. controversy and popularity wins and gets more than it should and takes time from BNs.
Modders have to pass a really harsh test to join the BNG.
The fact it can become a benefit can be true, but considering their knowledge is a natural consequence.
It's not a job, but a voluntary work (the minimum requirement is 3-4 icons per month, but it's nothing imo if you consider you can do that in 1 day only if you spare a day just for it), so don't start saying "you can't deny" because it's an actual insult to BNs in my eyes.

Just saying...

Endaris wrote:

That is all incredibly vague with an extensive load of "should", "need" and all that stuff.
This idea is not concrete at all. You should base its functionality on what we have NOW, not which environment would be good to implement it into.
I was thinking the same. This is an idea, not a concept yet.
While it has good input there is no solidity on "how" to make it work properly. That's the main reason I'm against it, or rather, not supporting it.
But this section is for this: discussion on how to make things better, so let's see...
Kyshiro
Elite Mapper
1,642 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Kyshiro

Stjpa wrote:

Sorry that I'm posting something that is not completely related to thos topic, but...
What the hell are you even expecting from BNs? Do you even know how many requests they get daily? How many good mappers are out there? All I see here and ingame is how you rant over the BNG because they are not looking at your map that "should" be easy to qualify as Irre etc said. So what? Maybe do something to get them dude. Bur ranting over the BNG everywhere doesn't help you at all, the BNs mostly start hating you and ignoring you because you think they are your icon machines. They can solely decide what map they want to nominate and what maps they don't want to nominate. If they don't take requests because they are busy (yeah guess what, they have a real life and also want to enjoy other games) then let them do it ffs. They are not machiens who need to be online 24/7 and check maps.
Yeah BNs have a life as well, and of course they don't 24/7 mod and play osu or whatever, but that really isn't the point here, we shouldn't attack BN's on this since it's out of their reach mostly as well, however they do have a small responsibility carrying that title. I do know how many requests they get and it can be overwhelming, I've been one myself.

Endaris wrote:

That is all incredibly vague with an extensive load of "should", "need" and all that stuff.
This idea is not concrete at all. You should base its functionality on what we have NOW, not which environment would be good to implement it into.

MrSergio wrote:

I was thinking the same. This is an idea, not a concept yet.
While it has good input there is no solidity on "how" to make it work properly. That's the main reason I'm against it, or rather, not supporting it.
But this section is for this: discussion on how to make things better, so let's see...
Instead of not agreeing and being against this just because it doesn't have a solid plan yet, how about coming up with better ideas on how to improve this.
WORSTPOLACKEU
511 posts
Joined May 2013
WORSTPOLACKEU

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

If the problem is with BN, maybe instead of trying to find a wasy to get around them. Maybe we should find a way to fix the "corruption" of the system.

Corruption can't really be resolved.
I don't know, being BN isn't anything that requires much from u nowadays.. it's mostly a benefit.
I thought it's mostly like a job kinda that you apply for, atleast that's how I would take it if I applied.
So "I am not accepting BN requests atm". WTF is that answer even, you are BN, lol it's kind of something you applied for right.
Yes I could understand it once or twice but that's mostly what you get.

I don't know.. controversy and popularity wins and gets more than it should and takes time from BNs.

Whoeveritwas wrote:

Sorry that I'm posting something that is not completely related to thos topic, but...
What the hell are you even expecting from BNs? Do you even know how many requests they get daily? I can imagineHow many good mappers are out there?Oh yes I do know. All I see here and ingame is how you rant over the BNG because they are not looking at your map that "should" be easy to qualify as Irre etc said. So what?So what? So that I am sick of same mappers getting BN checks all the time and less interesting maps or less popular mappers almost do not. Maybe do something to get them dude. DDo you seriously think I am not doing anything just talking about it? If you thought I don't do anything you must be an idiot.Bur ranting over the BNG everywhere doesn't help you at all, the BNs mostly start hating you and ignoring you because you think they are your icon machines.They are not icon machines, and I am always nice to them I am speaking in general, not only my case, also ranting helps, if no1 says anything what will change? They can solely decide what map they want to nominate and what maps they don't want to nominate.Of course, but doesn't everyone deserve same amount of BN attention? Because I think I've seen 4 or 5 new Sotarks maps during the time I've been trying to get a BN to look at my map and finally got it. Kyshiro didn't get any on his. Even thought we asked a lot of people :) If they don't take requests because they are busy (yeah guess what, they have a real life and also want to enjoy other games) then let them do it ffs. Ah yea of course they have a real life, but hmm.. so you tell me every BN I asked was busy for more than a month? Hard to believe especially considering some of them went straight to modding another popular map or mappers set, and yes, it's voluntary but it's the fucking job they APPLY for. You don't fucking apply for something you will do voluntarily and then don't really do it, do you? They are not machiens who need to be online 24/7 and check maps.Of course they are not machines and I don't expect that, but I expect a BN to check my map thoroughly once a month atleast because frankly, as I mentioned before, seeing a mapper getting 4-5 ranked sets during the time I am LOOKING FOR A BN TO CHECK MY MAP is just ridiculous, so sorry, I don't take the "I don't have time" excuse anymore, I did before.

MrSergio wrote:

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

Corruption can't really be resolved.
I don't know, being BN isn't anything that requires much from u nowadays.. it's mostly a benefit.
I thought it's mostly like a job kinda that you apply for, atleast that's how I would take it if I applied.
So "I am not accepting BN requests atm". WTF is that answer even, you are BN, lol it's kind of something you applied for right.
Yes I could understand it once or twice but that's mostly what you get.

I don't know.. controversy and popularity wins and gets more than it should and takes time from BNs.
Modders have to pass a really harsh test to join the BNG.
The fact it can become a benefit can be true, but considering their knowledge is a natural consequence.
It's not a job, but a voluntary work (the minimum requirement is 3-4 icons per month, but it's nothing imo if you consider you can do that in 1 day only if you spare a day just for it), so don't start saying "you can't deny" because it's an actual insult to BNs in my eyes.

Just saying...
I am not saying you can't deny. I am saying they can't excuse themselves with not having time or being busy but modding 50 other maps because they are hype or popular mapper made it and asked them for a check so they instantly go for it.
That's my problem. And I am not attacking on BNs because yes, many do hell of a job and actually helped me a lot and tried a lot but for the most part my experience with them is limited to "I am busy modding other popular maps".
Last edited by WORSTPOLACKEU , edited 6 times in total.
Kin
2,618 posts
Joined August 2010
Kin

Sandy Hoey wrote:

If the problem is with BN, maybe instead of trying to find a wasy to get around them. Maybe we should find a way to fix the "corruption" of the system.
>M4M ; if your map is good, you will get a mod + an icon ; also, when your map is bubbled, you really have a high chance to get a random mod from a BN.
I still can't get how some new mapper think it's too "hard to get BN's mod ; did they know what was MAT/BAT ?

I don't really like the idea of "qualifying your own maps".
But well ; here's a idea :

for "newer mappers/less experienced mappers" : to be sure the map is ok -> the map MUST have a bubble. There's still the "BN issue" ; but 1 BN is easier to find than 2 BNs.
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro

Kyshiro wrote:

Instead of not agreeing and being against this just because it doesn't have a solid plan yet, how about coming up with better ideas on how to improve this.
I do remember I left my opinion in the thread already and it was supported by a reasoning behind it, that's why.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I dislike the idea of depending on people that don't really about you or at least your map, but the diy idea is not good either. You need other people to tell you whether the map is good or not because without that you are only subject to what you think and what you think is always going to be in your favor regardless of what others think. The idea of qualifying your own map is a double edged sword. It solves one problem in crates another. What will you do when a ton of newbies decide to rank their shitmap? I expect >100 per day when the feature first comes into effect, and then BN and QAT will be overloaded with the mess of things.

I think forcing the BN to remove player preference/bias is a better way to go. In short, this would require a system which keeps track of which players got checked by which BN and validate a check (bubble) if the player hasn't been checked by the same BN too often. This would force BN to check more players they haven't checked before and check players less they have checked before. So new mappers can get more of a chance while older mappers would need to consider twice and be confident in their mapping before asking for BN check. Also allow a 3 week period or so since dq to be checked be same BN since otherwise it can be really unfair.
Last edited by abraker , edited 1 time in total.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Don't count this ever will be a thing. This already has been suggested by some BNs and already denied by Loctav. And I don't think this would work well.
Kyshiro
Elite Mapper
1,642 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Kyshiro
@abraker: read the OP again

--------------
I'm getting sick and tired of people commenting without reading and understanding the original post. Please read people.
It's not my fault you fail to see the general idea behind it, sure you can have your own opinion on it but at least I am suggesting things that could drastically improve the ranking system. Whether it's already suggested or not, it doesn't hurt to share ideas on how to make this a viable option.
All I'm asking is that people take this into consideration before completely talking this into the ground.
And with the right rules and guidelines, I'm positive this can work.

Heck I'd even be willing to help out on putting work into creating a better and smoother ranking system
Frim4503
2,067 posts
Joined July 2013
Frim4503
support this
cuz i have hard time to ranking my maps or even contact a BN.
(they always priority their friends first)
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
This'd be so great
Why not give the mapper the chance to do so, after the map at least reaches 50 (or maybe 30) SP, purely from modding (so not counting the stars)
This way it ensures the map to be modded at least 25 (or 15) times (though that means the map must be multiple years old, due to the 2-kd-countdown) to have a decent quality
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2
limit the amount of ranked maps a mapper can put our and force BNs to look at maps of other people if they want to stay active. Only one ranked map every 40 days per mapper.Requiring the BNs to bubble different mappers could work as well, maybe only the same mapper 2 times a year?

Monstrata and the other frequently featured folks are all good mappers, but they don't deserve to get their maps ranked while similarly talented and hard-working mappers get ignored, even though their maps are excellent too. This is the crux of the problem.

Abraker is on the right track here. Removing "player bias" (aka favoritism) is the way to go. Didn't even see you had the same idea, hah.
Kyshiro
Elite Mapper
1,642 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Kyshiro

Railey2 wrote:

limit the amount of ranked maps a mapper can put our and force BNs to look at maps of other people if they want to stay active. Only one ranked map every 40 days per mapper.Requiring the BNs to bubble different mappers could work as well, maybe only the same mapper 2 times a year?

Monstrata and the other frequently featured folks are all good mappers, but they don't deserve to get their maps ranked while similarly talented and hard-working mappers get ignored, even though their maps are excellent too. This is the crux of the problem.

Abraker is on the right track here. Removing "player bias" (aka favoritism) is the way to go. Didn't even see you had the same idea, hah.
I don't think you are a mapper so I'm clueless as to why you care so much, hah

Judging by the comments and the contents of them most people don't read the first post and just follow whatever the last person said based on the title alone. Fucking read. I'm genuinely annoyed by this.
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2

Kyshiro wrote:

Railey2 wrote:

limit the amount of ranked maps a mapper can put our and force BNs to look at maps of other people if they want to stay active. Only one ranked map every 40 days per mapper.Requiring the BNs to bubble different mappers could work as well, maybe only the same mapper 2 times a year?

Monstrata and the other frequently featured folks are all good mappers, but they don't deserve to get their maps ranked while similarly talented and hard-working mappers get ignored, even though their maps are excellent too. This is the crux of the problem.

Abraker is on the right track here. Removing "player bias" (aka favoritism) is the way to go. Didn't even see you had the same idea, hah.
I don't think you are a mapper so I'm clueless as to why you care so much, hah

Judging by the comments and the contents of them most people don't read the first post and just follow whatever the last person said based on the title alone. Fucking read. I'm genuinely annoyed by this.
As your opening statement, you said that you propose your idea as a response to the widespread favoritism among BNs, aka it being hard to get anything done without connections.

The suggestion I made addresses this problem, I did not comment on your idea at all in my post. I think your idea is decent, and could complement my/abrakers idea well, if you put a limit on it. Say one self-qualified map a month for mappers who truly earned the privilege to qualify their own maps. Ranking own maps is going too far imo. Together, these two mechanisms could be quite effective.



It doesn't matter who I am, no? I play this game and I care about it, that is all you need to know about me in this context. I don't need to be a mapper to understand the complications of the ranking-process.
Kyshiro
Elite Mapper
1,642 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Kyshiro

Railey2 wrote:

As your opening statement, you said that you propose your idea as a response to the widespread favoritism among BNs, aka it being hard to get anything done without connections.

The suggestion I made addresses this problem, I did not comment on your idea at all in my post. I think your idea is decent, and could complement my/abrakers idea well, if you put a limit on it. Say one self-qualified map a month for mappers who truly earned the privilege to qualify their own maps. Ranking own maps is going too far imo. Together, these two mechanisms could be quite effective.



It doesn't matter who I am, no? I play this game and I care about it, that is all you need to know about me in this context. I don't need to be a mapper to understand the complications of the ranking-process.
If you would have read it, which you clearly haven't, you would have seen that I've thought about limits and wrote that down. It's not going too far you just fail to see the idea behind it, and quite honestly I'm done writing the same comment over and over so I won't.
And yes. To fully understand the ranking process you have to go through it yourself.
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2

Kyshiro wrote:

If you would have read it, which you clearly haven't, you would have seen that I've thought about limits and wrote that down. It's not going too far you just fail to see the idea behind it, and quite honestly I'm done writing the same comment over and over so I won't.
And yes. To fully understand the ranking process you have to go through it yourself.
I mean that people in general shouldn't be allowed to rank more than one map every 40 days (or longer), not just the the mappers that earned the privilege to qualify their own maps.

idk what you're on about, I already said that I approve of the idea if its regulated right :V
As to me not being able to understand, I disagree. It's quite simple.




There are two core problems:
1) favoritism

2) the workload on the BNs is too big, as there are too many mappers and too few BNs to take care of their requests, which makes it even harder for new mappers to get a foot in the door

At the same time, you can't just make the ranking process 100 times easier to lessen the workload, as this would threaten the quality of the beatmaps, which is the main concern of most people that oppose your idea (aka shiirn and co.)


You attempt to solve core problem 2 by redistributing a bit of the workload away from the BNs and to some of the mappers that you think are experienced enough to take a more leading role themselves.

My idea is similar, as it would also address core problem 2 (and 1). It takes a bit of work off the BNs (and you can't favor someone unfairly if you aren't allowed to look at his stuff because you can't rank it anyways due to the 40 days rule).



The problems of the ranking process aren't too hard to understand. It's not that complicated of a system. I don't think that I need to experience frustration with not being able to get my maps ranked to "really understand" how it works.


I said I wouldn't allow them to RANK their map right off the bat. However, I think qualifying their own map is something they should be allowed to do if they truly showed that they are able to tell quality and shit apart.
Gumpy
2,418 posts
Joined June 2014
Gumpy

Kyshiro wrote:

And yes. To fully understand the ranking process you have too through it yourself.
So I can't look at how long it took to rank X map and imagine how much dick sucking it required?
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2
obviously people are incapable of analyzing things from an outside-view. They also can't relate to things like rising frustration as your efforts keep getting ignored, unless they experienced it in THIS ONE SPECIFIC SCENARIO. Impossible.
Kyshiro
Elite Mapper
1,642 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Kyshiro
God damn you guys give me cancer with your smartass comments, I'm done here, sorry for trying to help make a better game.

Enjoy sitting back and watching while nothing happens then.
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,060 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
As per Kyshiro's requests.
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