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What should I do with my eyes when I do rapid jumps?

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Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter
I notice that when there's a rapid succesion of jumps I need to make, my eyes sort of freeze up, unfocus and then try to capture what's going on on the screen by using peripheral vision. I believe this is because, were I to try to move my eyes to the next circles I'm supposed to click, I would be blind for the moment the eyes were moving, and so the eyes don't do that and instead rely on the poor peripheral vision rather than being blind.

This works remarkably well. I find myself surprised by how, for example, I'm able to hit circles that are on the bottom right corner of the screen while my eyes are centered at the top left corner of the screen.

An example of a map with rapid jumps where my eyes stay still instead of trying to follow the circles is the "Make a Move (Jump Final Boss)" difficulty in "Various Nightcore - Jump Training". (Here: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/357261)

My question is, should I train my eyes to keep up with the rapid jumps instead of freezing up (the benefit being that I don't have to rely on peripheral vision), or should I instead continue letting my eyes freeze up whenever it feels natural to them? If I start training my eyes to follow rapid jumps, and it turns out that this is worse than my eyes staying still, I might end up with a bad habit that's hard to break.

Also, do your eyes freeze up when making the large rapid jumps in the above beatmap? Or ever?
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Focus each circle individually unless it's easier to read multiple circle as a visual pattern (for example a stream) that you can play from muscle memory.
That way you can more or less guarantee that you hit.
StephOsu
1,216 posts
Joined February 2015
StephOsu
For me I usually look on the next circles that's appearing and then get my muscle memory to work for me to hit the circles
This allows me to concentrate on reading the map while having my muscle to move on it's own to click the circles to the beat
stalkyh
43 posts
Joined January 2016
stalkyh
Yeah at jumps it is better to look at each circle individually. For example check rafis liveplays from Youtube. His eyes are following the circles all the time. Another good example is WubWoofWolf airman liveplay from Youtube, his darting eyes look hilarious at some points :D

Damn.. i need to get out of this habit staring somewhere into screen when playing, especially on jump maps
LoliPantsu
311 posts
Joined January 2015
LoliPantsu
close them
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

stalkyh wrote:

Yeah at jumps it is better to look at each circle individually. For example check rafis liveplays from Youtube. His eyes are following the circles all the time. Another good example is WubWoofWolf airman liveplay from Youtube, his darting eyes look hilarious at some points :D

Damn.. i need to get out of this habit staring somewhere into screen when playing, especially on jump maps
You're right. My instinct at 1m and 55s into the video below is to freeze my eyes and try to look at both sides with my peripheral vision, but WWW makes rapid eye movements instead.

https://youtu.be/bTuhNOvJiro?t=1m55s

Other times, it's hard to see what goes on with the eyes, whether they freeze or not, since the image in small.

But the advice from commenters above seem to be to try to make my eyes dart fast to see each circle before clicking (or a set of circles).
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie
How 'far' your eyes move during jumps depends on how big/far your screen is. I don't use my peripheral vision, I instead focus my vision on individual objects, and yet I'm fairly good with large jumps and sometimes AR10.
I don't know if it will work for you too, so my only advice is play more and your playstyle will eventually grow on you.
TheLukay
122 posts
Joined July 2012
TheLukay
Interesting, for fast and spaced jumps i just focus on the center of the screen and the rest is just muscle memory. I could look at the circles but i don't feel the need to look at them
Deva
2,341 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva

TheLukay wrote:

Interesting, for fast and spaced jumps i just focus on the center of the screen and the rest is just muscle memory. I could look at the circles but i don't feel the need to look at them
That's the reason behind 99% of your misses at jumps.
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

TheLukay wrote:

Interesting, for fast and spaced jumps i just focus on the center of the screen and the rest is just muscle memory. I could look at the circles but i don't feel the need to look at them
By muscle-memory, you mean you remember how to click the circles from previous times you have played the same beatmap? (So it doesn't help when playing a beatmap for the first time?)
Deva
2,341 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva

Timo Timo wrote:

By muscle-memory, you mean you remember how to click the circles from previous times you have played the same beatmap? (So it doesn't help when playing a beatmap for the first time?)
You can do it all the time. I can sometimes just look at the center of the screen, not pay attention to anything and still hit everything. I don't recommend it tho.
Snow901
61 posts
Joined March 2016
Snow901

Arthraxium wrote:

How 'far' your eyes move during jumps depends on how big/far your screen is. I don't use my peripheral vision, I instead focus my vision on individual objects, and yet I'm fairly good with large jumps and sometimes AR10.
I don't know if it will work for you too, so my only advice is play more and your playstyle will eventually grow on you.
This is pretty true. In my case, I play 1080p fs on a 23" screen and find it pretty much impossible to lazer focus each individual circle for jumps that are really fast and far apart; it's definitely more doable though at a lower resolution.
Deva
2,341 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva

Snow901 wrote:

pretty much impossible to lazer focus each individual circle for jumps that are really fast and far apart.
This changes with applying PlayMore™ to your osu! program.
dung eater
2,391 posts
Joined December 2013
dung eater
Do something with your eyes that makes you notice if your aim is on or off the circles. The more precisely you observe, the easier it is to adjust. You get better at it slowly.
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter
I suppose this is a good argument for playing Osu! in windowed mode. Your eyes have an easier time darting from circle to circle.

I tried it once, but it was harder than having it fullscreen. Maybe that is easy to adjust to, or maybe it's just permanently harder than fullscreen. I don't know.
TheLukay
122 posts
Joined July 2012
TheLukay

Timo Timo wrote:

TheLukay wrote:

Interesting, for fast and spaced jumps i just focus on the center of the screen and the rest is just muscle memory. I could look at the circles but i don't feel the need to look at them
By muscle-memory, you mean you remember how to click the circles from previous times you have played the same beatmap? (So it doesn't help when playing a beatmap for the first time?)
Muscle memory would be just knowing how to move your hand for certain patterns. There are a lot of patterns used i just Instantly recognize like star patterns , these back and forth things ztrot always does etc. So if the map doesnt have fucked up patterns first plays are not a problem. Some mappers use patterns I know they use a lot so when I play a new map from them I am already kinda prepared. Memorizing probably isn't useful for maps that are AR10 since object count on screen is like 2 or 3 objects sometimes.

Surprisingly I don't do missreads. Like at all except for AR8 and lower stuff at the same difficulty.

tl;dr playing lots of (different) maps helped me

I don't know if any of that helps you, it's just my 2 cents on that
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie

TheLukay wrote:

Muscle memory would be just knowing how to move your hand for certain patterns. There are a lot of patterns used i just Instantly recognize like star patterns , these back and forth things ztrot always does etc. So if the map doesnt have fucked up patterns first plays are not a problem. Some mappers use patterns I know they use a lot so when I play a new map from them I am already kinda prepared. Memorizing probably isn't useful for maps that are AR10 since object count on screen is like 2 or 3 objects sometimes.

Surprisingly I don't do missreads. Like at all except for AR8 and lower stuff at the same difficulty.

tl;dr playing lots of (different) maps helped me

I don't know if any of that helps you, it's just my 2 cents on that
I think muscle memory is: how an action was done via reflex, instinct, or memory (with no relation to any patterns, etc.)
If you misread a pattern, that not bad muscle memory, it's just bad reading.

E.g. If you're new to the game and have absolutely no muscle memory yet, jumping from one circle to the other goes like this:
1. Your eyes (and then the brain) recognizes the two objects :arrow: 2. Your brain still processes the amount of movement your hand has to make (like how fast your wrist moves, which direction, where to stop) :arrow: 3. Your brain tells your hand to do so

If you, instead, have muscle memory, there's no middle step for doing that jump.

Also, there's no such thing as "reading patterns", because you should be reading each jump in order to complete the pattern. A lot of those who only read patterns complain about why they are misreading some specific patterns.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
hhave u tried getting good b4 u play those maps?
TheLukay
122 posts
Joined July 2012
TheLukay

a loli wrote:

hhave u tried getting good b4 u play those maps?

have you tried not being a dickhead before commenting

/sarcasm off
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

Arthraxium wrote:

Also, there's no such thing as "reading patterns", because you should be reading each jump in order to complete the pattern. A lot of those who only read patterns complain about why they are misreading some specific patterns.
Wat.
Try FCing Chaoz Japan or something without reading at least some of the overlapping stuff as patterns. Even a triple on its own is a pattern already because you don't singletap it but identify it with your brain as a triple-pattern. If you wouldn't identify it as such you would try to singletap it or something and fail miserably.
TheLukay
122 posts
Joined July 2012
TheLukay

Endaris wrote:

Wat.
Try FCing Chaoz Japan or something without reading at least some of the overlapping stuff as patterns. Even a triple on its own is a pattern already because you don't singletap it but identify it with your brain as a triple-pattern. If you wouldn't identify it as such you would try to singletap it or something and fail miserably.
or BASARA(at least thats singletapable lol)


or anything AR8

Reading patterns doesn't seem to matter that much anymore since most people play AR9+ all the time anyway and then the object count is too low.
Look at all the people raging like: "ermagherd it's AR8 no one can play that AR9 pls!!!!
Deva
2,341 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva

Arthraxium wrote:

Also, there's no such thing as "reading patterns", because you should be reading each jump in order to complete the pattern
But if you read the set of jumps that makes up that pattern then you just read that pattern. I dont get it.
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie

Endaris wrote:

Arthraxium wrote:

Also, there's no such thing as "reading patterns", because you should be reading each jump in order to complete the pattern. A lot of those who only read patterns complain about why they are misreading some specific patterns.
Wat.
Try FCing Chaoz Japan or something without reading at least some of the overlapping stuff as patterns.
I might have to paraphrase the bolded part there.
That map might be an exception, because I know that overlapping stuff is hard to individually read. However, every possible pattern can be broken down into individual 'n-to-n' instances, or 'jumps', with the exception of streams which are read as a uniform series of notes (e.g. nnnnnn). Patterns are a combination of jumps, singles, doubles, streams, etc., and failing to read each component would mean failing to read the pattern overall. To some players, it might still mean 'reading patterns', but in essence, it is the awareness of each component which makes up the pattern.

My second sentence in entirely based on most claims I have seen in this forum, and I was simply ditto-ing it.

HK_ wrote:

Arthraxium wrote:

Also, there's no such thing as "reading patterns", because you should be reading each jump in order to complete the pattern
But if you read the set of jumps that makes up that pattern then you just read that pattern. I dont get it.
I know. I'm going full circle here and I feel like a complete idiot.

But I can also go here from the game's perspective. The game does not recognize patterns, only components and everything in between. Hence, patterns don't actually exist.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
You're a fool trusting a computer over your own brain when it comes to anything that is not math.
TheLukay
122 posts
Joined July 2012
TheLukay
You should never forget: osu is a rhythm game, not a reaction game
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie
Go away.

2D > 3D
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
There are 3D games, what now? 8)
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie
I would rather stick towards better quality 2D than polygonal 3D for now, well until 3D becomes so much better. But 3D is still computer, so...

TheLukay wrote:

You should never forget: osu is a rhythm game, not a reaction game
Why not both, desu senpai?
Deva
2,341 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva
11D > 2D
StephOsu
1,216 posts
Joined February 2015
StephOsu
why do we have to be so complicated in a rhythm game just click the circles to the beat and PlayMore™
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

Arthraxium wrote:

E.g. If you're new to the game and have absolutely no muscle memory yet, jumping from one circle to the other goes like this:
1. Your eyes (and then the brain) recognizes the two objects :arrow: 2. Your brain still processes the amount of movement your hand has to make (like how fast your wrist moves, which direction, where to stop) :arrow: 3. Your brain tells your hand to do so

If you, instead, have muscle memory, there's no middle step for doing that jump.
<3

+3 Timopoints for hypothesising about the brain in order to explain everyday phenomena.


Arthraxium wrote:

Also, there's no such thing as "reading patterns", because you should be reading each jump in order to complete the pattern. A lot of those who only read patterns complain about why they are misreading some specific patterns.
Au contraire. We need to apply some philosophical reductionism here. Think of it like recognising the pattern of a hand. There's no "hand" out there in the real world that is independent of the fingers and palm, but we can't say that we don't read the hand as a pattern. You can think of it like this: when we see a hand, visual stimuli fires certain neurons that are programmed to fire whenever we see patterns like the ones we see now. First, maybe the neurons that represent the fingers and palms are activated, and when sufficiently many of the subpatterns that make up the hand are activated, they collectively send enough action potential through their synapses unto the receptor neuron for the hand pattern such that the hand-pattern neuron's threshold value is exceeded. Once the threshold value for that neuron is exceeded, it fires off, and sends signals to the rest of the brain, allowing it to process the situation around it with an activated "hand" concept that is in addition to the activated finger and palm concepts.

TL;DR: Reading the circles individually is what allows us to read the patterns of circles, and the pattern of circles is represented in the brain by other neurons that are distinct but connected to the neurons that represent each of the individual circles.


Icy001 wrote:

"Timo is king of walls of text."

StephOsu wrote:

why do we have to be so complicated in a rhythm game just click the circles to the beat and PlayMore™
Steph does not want us to be doing this. : D
Deva
2,341 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva
This is not philosophy, this is clicking circles.

What the actual fuck?
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

HK_ wrote:

This is not philosophy, this is clicking circles.

What the actual fuck?
Both the neurons that make up the concepts "clicking circles" and "philosophy" can be activated at the same time. Osu!philosophy. <3
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie

Timo Timo wrote:

wall of text
Great post there (no sarcasm).

Also, it's osu!, not Osu!.
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

Arthraxium wrote:

Timo Timo wrote:

wall of text
Great post there (no sarcasm).

Also, it's osu!, not Osu!.
Thanks for the grammar-nazism (no sarcasm). You may consider me corrected.
StephOsu
1,216 posts
Joined February 2015
StephOsu
why is there people who just want to watch the world learn make circle clicking complicated :c
we should just click the circles to the beat
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