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Inferi - The Promethean Kings

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Mordred
03:30:022 (2) - is that offscreen or still ok? https://puu.sh/rwRfp/094608aaa4.png
_koinuri

Xexxar wrote:

If you had a slow song that had a 1/8th stream out of nowhere is it okay to map it because the song warrants it? A map should cater consistency in its design and not be excessive for what its trying to be.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1012279
I think it's perfectly fine to map a 1/8 stream on a slow song if it called for it. I also don't think ignoring a certain aspect of a song for the sake of being consistent is a good idea either. If a song suddenly became intense on a single part, you should map it.
I Must Decrease

-[Koinuri] wrote:

Xexxar wrote:

If you had a slow song that had a 1/8th stream out of nowhere is it okay to map it because the song warrants it? A map should cater consistency in its design and not be excessive for what its trying to be.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1012279
I think it's perfectly fine to map a 1/8 stream on a slow song if it called for it. I also don't think ignoring a certain aspect of a song for the sake of being consistent is a good idea either. If a song suddenly became intense on a single part, you should map it.
why not just use a 1/8th slider to avoid an unnecessary spike in difficulty when it might not warrant it, or any other form of sliders to make it reasonable.

as for mazzerin.

aight fine do whatever, no one cares about maps quality anymore anyway so idk why I even make an effort. (i forgot quaver got ranked, this map is fine)
stryver12

N00dle wrote:

03:30:022 (2) - is that offscreen or still ok? https://puu.sh/rwRfp/094608aaa4.png
Took a look at Autoplay yesterday, looks fine IIRC.
_koinuri

Xexxar wrote:

why not just use a 1/8th slider to avoid an unnecessary spike in difficulty when it might not warrant it, or any other form of sliders to make it reasonable.
Having bunch of 1/8 repeat sliders (essentially making it a long 1/1 or 1/2 section) is just as inconsistent because it'd make the section way too easy, considering it's one of the peak in the song, but oh well, offtopic. My point is having a spike isn't necessarily a bad thing if the song calls for it.
Bearizm

Xexxar wrote:

If you had a slow song that had a 1/8th stream out of nowhere is it okay to map it because the song warrants it? A map should cater consistency in its design and not be excessive for what its trying to be.
If a song calls for it (like really), why not? It's not always good to sacrifice emphasis for consistency. Actually, I don't think there is ever a case where consistency is prioritized over emphasis. If you think of consistency as the higher prior than emphasis then you're playing a target practice. If vice versa; you're playing a circle clicking rhythm game; which is what this game is. xd
Flower
I just feel some 260 bpm large space 1/4 jump is funny. But it's just my opinion and this is unrelated to the map quality. No need to reply to this post. The map is good overall, and in my opinion it's good everywhere. And this is not some sarcasm, I mean, man, this map is good.
riktoi

N00dle wrote:

03:30:022 (2) - is that offscreen or still ok? https://puu.sh/rwRfp/094608aaa4.png
looked through the map with auto at 800x600, nothing should be offscreen (some stuff goes pretty close but it's not close enough for it to be a problem)

for anyone complaining about sharp stream transitions (like this 04:56:597 (1,1,1) - ) you need to understand that mapping is not simply about smooth transitions and flow. I don't really know the name but you can hear the foot pedal (?) kick in here 04:56:765 - which justifies this kind of patterning.

also mazzerin can you tell me about this 05:02:158 (1,2,1,2) - 05:02:833 (1,2,3,4) -
Topic Starter
Mazzerin

riktoi wrote:

N00dle wrote:

03:30:022 (2) - is that offscreen or still ok? https://puu.sh/rwRfp/094608aaa4.png
looked through the map with auto at 800x600, nothing should be offscreen (some stuff goes pretty close but it's not close enough for it to be a problem)

for anyone complaining about sharp stream transitions (like this 04:56:597 (1,1,1) - ) you need to understand that mapping is not simply about smooth transitions and flow. I don't really know the name but you can hear the foot pedal (?) kick in here 04:56:765 - which justifies this kind of patterning.

also mazzerin can you tell me about this 05:02:158 (1,2,1,2) - 05:02:833 (1,2,3,4) -
tell what it's similar to 04:55:754 (1) - but of less magnitude, those notes increase in pitch while the 2nd group decrease and it isn't as noticeable when it decreases, so nothing really happens
riktoi
I see thanks
Henri
People are complaining about the hugely exaggerated back and forth jumps that are ill fitting to the rest of the map,
when the whole map is ugly and looks unpolished in general.

This map has too low AR/OD and there is nothing the mapper can do about it.
Played in half time, (which many people in this case WILL ACTUALLY DO, (unlike in other maps)) the map becomes 7.22* and AR9.

I can't imagine anyone choosing to map for example:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1028733
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/851255
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/724015
:with AR9, taking into consideration that most of the people in around top 5 000 can read ar9DT with ease, and this maps target audience being the top3+ a couple of fast players.

Obviously people are going to say that it isnt the mappers fault, as he cannot rise the AR above 10.
There still is SOMETHING he can do: not overmap like crazy, or consider NOT mapping something that CANNOT be mapped with the current editor.
Sadly that is mostly what he is known for and for what his fanboys will follow him for.

Also, gotta love these comments about this map automatically being better because its not anime music.
I feel like these people do not look at the map at all, but just the music, and mainly want a contrast for the anime heavy scene.
I love this kind of music but I disagree with a choice of mp3 making the MAP any better..

EDIT: cant wait for the learn to read replies
Akali

huono_tuuri wrote:

People are complaining about the hugely exaggerated back and forth jumps that are ill fitting to the rest of the map,
when the whole map is ugly and looks unpolished in general.

This map has too low AR/OD and there is nothing the mapper can do about it.
Played in half time, (which many people in this case WILL ACTUALLY DO, (unlike in other maps)) the map becomes 7.22* and AR9.

I can't imagine anyone choosing to map for example:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1028733
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/851255
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/724015
:with AR9, taking into consideration that most of the people in around top 5 000 can read ar9DT with ease, and this maps target audience being the top3+ a couple of fast players.

Obviously people are going to say that it isnt the mappers fault, as he cannot rise the AR above 10.
There still is SOMETHING he can do: not overmap like crazy, or consider NOT mapping something that CANNOT be mapped with the current editor.
Sadly that is mostly what he is known for and for what his fanboys will follow him for.

Also, gotta love these comments about this map automatically being better because its not anime music.
I feel like these people do not look at the map at all, but just the music, and mainly want a contrast for the anime heavy scene.
I love this kind of music but I disagree with a choice of mp3 making the MAP any better..

EDIT: cant wait for the learn to read replies
Ye it's like, not mappers fault because he can't rise the AR above 10
UndeadCapulet
mods arent considered for map rankability, except in weird cases like hr drain making the map unpassable

its the player's fault if they cant read the mod they put on
Sanze
delet this
Henri

UndeadCapulet wrote:

mods arent considered for map rankability, except in weird cases like hr drain making the map unpassable

its the player's fault if they cant read the mod they put on
My point is that even with nomod the diff paremetres do not fit, i just used HT for the example.
There just isnt any players that this map is meant for.
ALSO : https://osu.ppy.sh/s/484689

@akali
its not like the mapper is out of options, as i wrote he can remove the map or change the overmapped parts =)
edit: also graveyard is a good option
Akali

huono_tuuri wrote:

@akali
its not like the mapper is out of options, as i wrote he can remove the map or change the overmapped parts =)
It's not overmapped or doesn't spike more than kpop or pool party ballads that breeze through qualification system, it just has higher (justified) base difficulty from which it goes up.

More people map more maps, more and more get ranked, if a weird technical cancer that doesn't give any pp or 9*star deathmetal song get through from time to time nothing bad will happen as long as they maintain theoretical quality standards.
Weber

huono_tuuri wrote:

There just isnt any players that this map is meant for.
cool opinion you have there
Stefan
Could you please stop repeating the same quote over and over again about "it can also be played while graveyarded" and "graveyard is an option"?

In the end, the map won't bite off your face when you decide to avoid it. Obviously, you should make sure there is nothing which is in this point that overdone that it needs to be disqualified but you could just leave it if you can't really argue what's wrong with the map. Saying "remove overmapped parts" is pointless.
Reddit
So apparently a big rise in difficulty isnt okay when the song gets crazy itself.



but this is okay when the song itself is consistent but the map gets crazy for no reason?
C00L

Stefan wrote:

In the end, the map won't bite off your face when you decide to avoid it.
could we just quote this from now on?

I mean just give up for god sake just since you cant play it doesnt mean that other cant, it's not just what you can or cannot play, its mostly about map quality isn't it? Think this through maps don't get qualified if they look bad. You can do the math yourself... (not refering to you stefan just in general)

Congratz Mazzerin btw i never said it before, really great map quality
Shiirn

Reddit wrote:

apoplectic, ignorant crap
if you'd have actually looked at the threads and did more than post insinuative bullshit, you'd have realized people did not think quaver's difficulty spike was "okay". Maybe it'd be better for everyone involved if you cut your sarcastic commentary career short.

Stefan wrote:

In the end, the map won't bite off your face when you decide to avoid it.
"If you don't like it leave" stopped being an effective argument in most people's lives once testicles started to drop and periods started to occur. Maps will, and should, be judged by community perspective. Of course, most people have no idea what they're talking about, but that's normal, and you don't figure shit out without making a fool of yourself once or twice, so it's a natural process. Ironic you're calling it the "same quote over and over again" when you responded with the obligatory response to that quote... but I digress.


This map is some bullshit, but it's pretty consistently bullshit and sticks to its theme. I don't like it for personal reasons, but that's normal for Shiirn. I can't really comment one way or the other on the rankability of this map as I'm sure anything I say will be taken with a grain of salt, but if my penny is worth anything I think the map should just be left alone. Shitty deathmetal gonna be shitty.
Battle
that normal-hitfinish6 is still triggering tho
Remyria
wtf... ... ... ... m'k, that's a retardedly difficult spike (and the rest is ridiculously hard as well)...but it's not bad. You really look like you know what you are doing with these impossible maps. if the other nice 7-8* maps that aren't impossibly hard streams could be ranked as well ;w; <.<

EDIT: it seems that was my 250th message
Reddit

Shiirn wrote:

Reddit wrote:

apoplectic, ignorant crap
Yeah ok whatever floats your boat.

Shiirn wrote:

if you'd have actually looked at the threads and did more than post insinuative bullshit, you'd have realized people did not think quaver's difficulty spike was "okay". Maybe it'd be better for everyone involved if you cut your sarcastic commentary career short.
Im aware at how upset people were at Quaver having a retarded difficulty spike that had no justification even being there. Im saying how is this a issue for getting the map ranked when this maps difficulty spike actually fits the music however overmapped you may feel it is. Im not saying "Hey everyone look the entire map is perfect just because i can justify the main thing people are complaining about". I just think it would be better to focus on other parts of the map and try to find real issues instead of "please dq muh overmapping uwu". But whatever, when this map gets inevitably DQed for something unreasonable because he isnt Monstrata or Fycho and doesnt have his special license for using huge jumps in his maps yet. I guess on the bright side i get to make some memes on how Quaver and HAI-TAI is ok but this isnt. 8-)
mithew

Battle wrote:

that normal-hitfinish6 is still triggering tho
i don't think it doesn't fit the song but its definitely overused (honestly everyone overuses this)
Bearizm

mithew wrote:

Battle wrote:

that normal-hitfinish6 is still triggering tho
i don't think it doesn't fit the song but its definitely overused (honestly everyone overuses this)
It's used in most if not all Mazzerin's maps. That sound is like his map's identity now despite being used by others before he ranked anything lol
Battle
well if that's the case then I think it's cool lmao
Okoratu
Just an update from our side:

We are aware that this map is reported, but we lack technical reasoning to open up a debate about. The stuff that's currently here seems to be widely based on "i think this is too much", while not really providing a) something that would solve the problem people see b) any technical reason why current patterning is broken
Shiirn
90% of modders who think they can conceptually understand this map are going to be modding it at 25 or 50% anyway
Ekoro
this isn't disqualified yet come on /s

to me, a map shouldn't be disqualified because of raw difficulty ; even if everyone knows that a 15* would barely make it to ranking no matter how good the map is

the harder the map is, the less you should use technical patterns and use mostly flow-friendly patterns, so the map is still playable while retaining the challenge.

03:23:214 - 03:26:445 - this part is really a pain to play, especially 03:24:945 (3,1,2,3,1) which is really awkward to play because of the very high BPM
03:52:522 (1,2) - this may be too much, i don't really see why the spacing is so high and sudden here.

that's all here, the map is technically ok (even if i admit that there are some overdone jumps, but eh, can we justify it through the song?)

i feel like i already posted on this topic, giving exactly the same opinion
Shiirn
mmm, to clarify Ekoro's comment a bit about technical patterns vs flow-friendly;


It's not necessarily when the map is harder, but when the map is faster. The main difficulty with maps like this is the raw density of notes, not their rhythm or predictability. Like I mentioned in Fetish's Empress, high velocity should be relying on simpler pattern-based structure and flow on a more over-arching scale: individual beats blend together at these speeds, so emphasizing them is useless, if not directly detrimental to a map's playability and feasibility. Thus, it becomes more important to have entire combos and measures taken in context, rather than looking specifically at drums or guitar riffs. This is what causes my disdain for the "25% or 50%" modding - you can hear the differences at that speed, but they're irrelevant at full speed. It ruins the map.

What does this have to do with The Promethean Kings? You tell me. I'm just trying to explain what should be considered for this map's rankability, which I feel is a different metric than most people are used to.
Topic Starter
Mazzerin

Ekoro wrote:

this isn't disqualified yet come on /s

to me, a map shouldn't be disqualified because of raw difficulty ; even if everyone knows that a 15* would barely make it to ranking no matter how good the map is

the harder the map is, the less you should use technical patterns and use mostly flow-friendly patterns, so the map is still playable while retaining the challenge.

03:23:214 - 03:26:445 - this part is really a pain to play, especially 03:24:945 (3,1,2,3,1) which is really awkward to play because of the very high BPM
03:52:522 (1,2) - this may be too much, i don't really see why the spacing is so high and sudden here.

that's all here, the map is technically ok (even if i admit that there are some overdone jumps, but eh, can we justify it through the song?)

i feel like i already posted on this topic, giving exactly the same opinion
hmm this actually used to be a triangle triple 03:25:176 (2,3,1) - but gayz and talala both disliked it, after I changed it to this talala could pass it and said it's much better, well the movement isn't awkward at least, the spacing goes up on the strong guitar notes in this section and the triple is part of it (it's the whole white tick after the strongest guitar note, ex: 03:23:676 (1,2,3,4) - 03:24:137 (1,2,3) - 03:24:599 (1,2,3,4,1) - 03:25:060 (1,2,3,1) - and so on)
I think the difficulty comes from it simply being 260 bpm to be honest, I tried making it as non-overlappy as possible (people were having problems with overlaps at first) while having the spacing changes quite clear, but the difficulty of tapping still remains

03:52:522 (1,2) - these aren't much different from 03:48:830 (1,2) - this for example in intensity, and they're spaced similarly, I think that's fine? 03:37:753 (1,2) - could also compare this, these got strong lead guitar notes instead of rhythmic one tho, and the main spotlight of this pattern is 03:37:983 (1) - which is the furthest away, while the other 2 have their final notes closer instead of further away 03:49:060 (1) - 03:52:753 (1) -

I didn't use any "super advanced technical" patterns in the 260 bpm part except maybe 03:47:330 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - but even that one plays very simply, it's easier than it would be if the stream was spaced every 1 note, the part is 99% based around mechanical skill as I said somewhere else (well reading is obviously involved because when things are this fast at such a bpm it gets more intense to read as well)
Torchic
Let's go boiiiis
marshallracer
It is incredible how you're still allowed to use the "rsi" tag although it doesn't have to do ANYTHING with this map
Yeah, it's hard and stuff but why should it have relevance in this map (or any other map you've used it in for that matter)?

I see no connection between rsi and artist, song, album and/or mapper.
If it's about helping people to find "difficult" maps, that's not how tags are supposed to be used. They're predominantely meant for additional sources or relevant people/media/events (if any) it has relevance to.
DeletedUser_6709840

marshallracer wrote:

It is incredible how you're still allowed to use the "rsi" tag although it doesn't have to do ANYTHING with this map
Yeah, it's hard and stuff but why should it have relevance in this map (or any other map you've used it in for that matter)?

I see no connection between rsi and artist, song, album and/or mapper.
If it's about helping people to find "difficult" maps, that's not how tags are supposed to be used. They're predominantely meant for additional sources or relevant people/media/events (if any) it has relevance to.
The RSI tag is a medical warning for people who plan to retry this map a ton of time because streams like these really mess up your hands without proper breaks
Mismagius
just a quick reminder that tags can be changed without a DQ so finding wrong things there will not take the map down
marshallracer

RoseusJaeger wrote:

The RSI tag is a medical warning for people who plan to retry this map a ton of time because streams like these really mess up your hands without proper breaks
This can be done in the description aswell without abusing the tags for this

Blue Dragon wrote:

just a quick reminder that tags can be changed without a DQ so finding wrong things there will not take the map down
This is perfectly fine as long as this issue can and will be discussed
Shiirn
also memes can be put in tags fairly easily without anyone really giving a shit, missing or misleading tags are far more disruptive than superfluous tags
Lunicia
mazzerin, get a 10 star map ranked next

edit: fuck i forgot i cant delete this post. fml ;(

accidental double post plz no silence me pls
Lunicia

marshallracer wrote:

It is incredible how you're still allowed to use the "rsi" tag although it doesn't have to do ANYTHING with this map
Yeah, it's hard and stuff but why should it have relevance in this map (or any other map you've used it in for that matter)?

I see no connection between rsi and artist, song, album and/or mapper.
If it's about helping people to find "difficult" maps, that's not how tags are supposed to be used. They're predominantely meant for additional sources or relevant people/media/events (if any) it has relevance to.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/368060 this map has rsi in the tags, and rightfully so. there isnt a reason why rsi SHOULDNT be in the tags of this map

after all its a 9 star map
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