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Aimer - words

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Ayyri
Ayyri
hi mom

[General]
  1. Your Reimu BG will trigger me until the end of time.
[Rhetoric]
  1. Whenever drum-hitwhistle2.wav is used, it sounds overly loud compared to any other sound. Consider lowering the volume of this sound. (One of the most prominent times that it seemed to distract from the rest of the hitsounds / song itself was at 02:01:490 - )
  2. Guitar wise, moving 01:41:883 - to 01:41:455 - would work better than following the vocals at 01:41:883 - which don't really feel like they warrant a double. It would also be aesthetically similar to 01:39:848 - but who cares about aesthetics these days.
  3. 02:48:740 - Moving this circle inbetween 02:48:419 - and 02:48:848 - would give the sense of a "down, up, down" pattern a bit more, as well as making the 1/4 pattern not mistakable for a 1/2 pattern. Like 00:39:210 - . Also because every other 1/4 pattern like this has had similar stacking to what I suggested. Like in the later kiai, at 05:03:846 - .
  4. Since I pointed out the previous one, I will point out that 05:14:989 - follows the same kind of pattern I am talking about.
There isn't too much to say, but forced M4M occured.
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei
Rhetoric
I know this gonna make you change the following constructions, tho i had to pinpoint this out:
01:02:139 (7) - i guess this http://puu.sh/qVbQn/a1b3cca5d6.jpg should be like this http://puu.sh/qVbZi/3e133faec3.jpg ?
01:26:996 (2) - this http://puu.sh/qVc6W/82f09884bf.jpg to this http://puu.sh/qVc8f/94a90fa132.jpg
01:26:567 (1) - ^
01:30:853 (3) - http://puu.sh/qVcjd/931657cd44.jpg move it a bit eh?
01:37:276 (3,5) - http://puu.sh/qVcs3/42b324640c.jpg ^
01:39:848 (6) - http://puu.sh/qVcxK/efae81faa1.jpg ^
01:59:348 (2) - ^
02:01:276 (3) - move this a bit to the 02:01:276 (3) - (it makes sense obv) with a bit of restructure to the following notes (obviously)
02:24:633 (4) - http://puu.sh/qVd45/e46e466b8a.jpg ^
02:32:562 (3,4) - this should be a bit to the top http://puu.sh/qVd8R/367d8f2567.jpg
02:41:562 (4) - why this here? http://puu.sh/qVden/937c9f6120.jpg ^
02:47:990 (3) - make this just straight horizontal?
02:47:990 (3) - move the s-end to s-start here? 02:52:276 (1) -
03:11:348 (2) - move it like this? http://puu.sh/qVduc/a80683526b.jpg <
03:11:776 (4) - this like here? http://puu.sh/qVdB2/e65cf951bf.jpg
and the next things should me a bit moved as well (consequently)
03:16:705 (3) - move this a bit to the bottom
03:41:562 (4) - ^ (03:41:990 (1) - consequently this should be straight vertical)
03:41:990 (1) - ???????? http://puu.sh/qVdYJ/85e9e5eec4.jpg
04:04:276 (1) - http://puu.sh/qVe3P/f36f465f05.jpg ^
04:58:703 (4) - http://puu.sh/qVeer/d22c5713d7.jpg ^
05:02:132 (5) - http://puu.sh/qVejK/657f8d0fee.jpg ^
05:06:846 (4,5) - and 05:06:418 (2,3) - 90* between them?
05:17:989 (1) - this looks weird in connection with 05:16:703 (3) -
so yea thats it!
this map is almost perfect, so i tried a bit harder to find all of these things i mentioned above
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

Ayyri wrote:

hi mom

[General]
  1. Your Reimu BG will trigger me until the end of time.
[Rhetoric]
  1. Whenever drum-hitwhistle2.wav is used, it sounds overly loud compared to any other sound. Consider lowering the volume of this sound. (One of the most prominent times that it seemed to distract from the rest of the hitsounds / song itself was at 02:01:490 - ) Reduced the volume.
  2. Guitar wise, moving 01:41:883 - to 01:41:455 - would work better than following the vocals at 01:41:883 - which don't really feel like they warrant a double. It would also be aesthetically similar to 01:39:848 - but who cares about aesthetics these days. Yea, good idea. Changed it like how you suggested.
  3. 02:48:740 - Moving this circle inbetween 02:48:419 - and 02:48:848 - would give the sense of a "down, up, down" pattern a bit more, as well as making the 1/4 pattern not mistakable for a 1/2 pattern. Like 00:39:210 - . Also because every other 1/4 pattern like this has had similar stacking to what I suggested. Like in the later kiai, at 05:03:846 - . I don't really like spaced triplets in-between sliders. Also, this is pretty easy to read. Context is important here, and I think knowing the pacing and jumps i've already used here, it won't be confusing to identify this as a 1/4 jump. Well, honestly I wouldn't call it a 1/4 jmp anyways, since there's so much slider-leniency involved that the pattern just plays smoothly xD.
  4. Since I pointed out the previous one, I will point out that 05:14:989 - follows the same kind of pattern I am talking about. Same here. There's a lot of context provided for this pattern, it won't be misread as 1/2. As well, the flow of the sliders direct the player to the circle naturally too, so players can take full advantage of slider-leniency here.
There isn't too much to say, but forced M4M occured.
Thanks Ayyri :D.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

-himei wrote:

Rhetoric
I know this gonna make you change the following constructions, tho i had to pinpoint this out:
01:02:139 (7) - i guess this http://puu.sh/qVbQn/a1b3cca5d6.jpg should be like this http://puu.sh/qVbZi/3e133faec3.jpg ? No... this is a Ctrl+H'ed version of the slider you selected. Why do they have to be parallel?
01:26:996 (2) - this http://puu.sh/qVc6W/82f09884bf.jpg to this http://puu.sh/qVc8f/94a90fa132.jpg This is a different pattern entirely... If you look at it from that angle yes, its off. But look at it from when these objects are viewed in game. The grid pattern shifts due to blanket sliders being stacked. Blanketted sliders are not going to be the same length as linear sliders so when I use blanket sliders in hex-grid placements, the grid shifts a bit. In gme everything looks fine, but of course if you look hard enough in editor you see these irregularities. I don't plan on doing anything about them because they are intended, and I've already mapped and placed everything in a way that these irregularies are never actually seen in gameplay.
01:26:567 (1) - ^ ^
01:30:853 (3) - http://puu.sh/qVcjd/931657cd44.jpg move it a bit eh? Why? The overlap is barely even visible in editor, let alone in game...
01:37:276 (3,5) - http://puu.sh/qVcs3/42b324640c.jpg ^ Moved 1 a few pixels up isntead.
01:39:848 (6) - http://puu.sh/qVcxK/efae81faa1.jpg ^ Blanketting with hex grid does that. If you highlight it you might see it, but its perfectly fine in game. Please consider the context instead of just highlighting any part... Can you see these placement inconsistencies in game? No.
01:59:348 (2) - ^ ^
02:01:276 (3) - move this a bit to the 02:01:276 (3) - (it makes sense obv) with a bit of restructure to the following notes (obviously) ^
02:24:633 (4) - http://puu.sh/qVd45/e46e466b8a.jpg ^ ^ No...
02:32:562 (3,4) - this should be a bit to the top http://puu.sh/qVd8R/367d8f2567.jpg Why? What does making it linear do? The idea here is a symmetrical blanket pattern, not a linear pattern with the circles and sliderends...
02:41:562 (4) - why this here? http://puu.sh/qVden/937c9f6120.jpg ^ Linear pattern with 3's slider-end and 1's slider-head. Not everything needs to be a symmetrical pattern either.
02:47:990 (3) - make this just straight horizontal? Why?
02:47:990 (3) - move the s-end to s-start here? 02:52:276 (1) - Why? Makes no sense to me... :P
03:11:348 (2) - move it like this? http://puu.sh/qVduc/a80683526b.jpg < No... This whole second kiai is a square-grid patterning. I don't want to include triangles especially not here :P.
03:11:776 (4) - this like here? http://puu.sh/qVdB2/e65cf951bf.jpg ^ You're completely missing the aesthetic of this section... :P
and the next things should me a bit moved as well (consequently)
03:16:705 (3) - move this a bit to the bottom No...
03:41:562 (4) - ^ (03:41:990 (1) - consequently this should be straight vertical) Why? What does making it vertical even do?
03:41:990 (1) - ???????? http://puu.sh/qVdYJ/85e9e5eec4.jpg ???????? Wrong time stamp? But again, please consider context first...
04:04:276 (1) - http://puu.sh/qVe3P/f36f465f05.jpg ^ No clue what you mean here...
04:58:703 (4) - http://puu.sh/qVeer/d22c5713d7.jpg ^ What's wrong here? Placement is equidistant...
05:02:132 (5) - http://puu.sh/qVejK/657f8d0fee.jpg ^ No clue what you mean here...
05:06:846 (4,5) - and 05:06:418 (2,3) - 90* between them? Why 90 degrees? I want to use triangle jumps here...
05:17:989 (1) - this looks weird in connection with 05:16:703 (3) - Looks fine... I don't see what the issue is. They are also on different measures, different combo's, and dont even follow the same rhythm so I don't see why they need to be that interconnected even. The flow-break from the stream into the slider should give an indication of distinction and difference if anything...
so yea thats it!
this map is almost perfect, so i tried a bit harder to find all of these things i mentioned above
Well... thanks for checking, but really, give people reasons before suggesting changes... and at least consider the patterns themselves and how they are supposed to work before suggesting an alternative.
Ayyri
Ayyri

Ayyri wrote:

Your Reimu BG will trigger me until the end of time.
#2
dylansantosh
313 posts
Joined February 2015
dylansantosh
congratz on micheal buble

wait what
Illyasviel
218 posts
Joined July 2013
Illyasviel
OD 8 pls :c >:(
William K
694 posts
Joined January 2013
William K
I'll try modding ur's XD

[Rhetoric]

  1. 00:23:568 (3) - Hmm what about making this a bit more straight for aesthetics? It's not changing the pattern tho. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6023015 It looks much better for me than being so curvy...
  2. 00:30:424 (2) - Fix this blanket if you meant to blanket it xP
  3. 00:58:924 (4) - What about putting this a bit lower for emphasizing this 00:59:139 (1) -
  4. 01:10:710 (4) - Blanket's off. (3 pixels? XD)
  5. 03:50:026 (4,5) - What about stacking these with slider end to avoid overlapping with 03:51:205 (3,4) - .
  6. 04:25:705 - Lowering the sound here would be better to fit the music?
Hope these helps :V

Btw it's bubbled ._. Nevermind this then xD
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

William K wrote:

I'll try modding ur's XD

[Rhetoric]

  1. 00:23:568 (3) - Hmm what about making this a bit more straight for aesthetics? It's not changing the pattern tho. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6023015 It looks much better for me than being so curvy... No, I like this better.
  2. 00:30:424 (2) - Fix this blanket if you meant to blanket it xP ok
  3. 00:58:924 (4) - What about putting this a bit lower for emphasizing this 00:59:139 (1) - Emphasizing with flowbreak.
  4. 01:10:710 (4) - Blanket's off. (3 pixels? XD)ok
  5. 03:50:026 (4,5) - What about stacking these with slider end to avoid overlapping with 03:51:205 (3,4) - .No, i want them spaced like that. The overlap is not even visible in game play, they're too far apart in time.
  6. 04:25:705 - Lowering the sound here would be better to fit the music?No, music isn't softer there... Only after the break.
Hope these helps :V

Btw it's bubbled ._. Nevermind this then xD
Uh, thanks I guess.
Illyasviel
218 posts
Joined July 2013
Illyasviel
You don't need it, but I'll throw it anyways +1
Ayyri
Ayyri
Quality mods here.
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,526 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
SPOILER
2016-09-07 15:46 neonat: ok so first i wanna ask about the hitsounds at the start
2016-09-07 15:46 neonat: specifically this section 00:09:010 (2,3) -
2016-09-07 15:46 neonat: i think u can remove the whistle at the start of slider 00:09:010 (2) -
2016-09-07 15:47 neonat: emphasize that piano
2016-09-07 15:47 Monstrata: hm
2016-09-07 15:47 Monstrata: yea i wasn't really sure about that tbh
2016-09-07 15:47 Monstrata: yea i think removing sounds good too
2016-09-07 15:48 neonat: 00:22:712 (2) - this one is the same too
2016-09-07 15:48 Monstrata: 00:22:712 (2) - i'll remove t
2016-09-07 15:48 Monstrata: o
2016-09-07 15:48 Monstrata: heh
2016-09-07 15:48 neonat: this was timing checked right?
2016-09-07 15:48 Monstrata: yep
2016-09-07 15:48 Monstrata: pishi checked it
2016-09-07 15:48 neonat: ok
2016-09-07 15:50 neonat: 00:40:067 (5) - could really be triplets in this section though
2016-09-07 15:50 neonat: the slider though mirroring the other one seems quite underwhelming
2016-09-07 15:50 Monstrata: the snapping is really uh
2016-09-07 15:50 Monstrata: off here
2016-09-07 15:50 Monstrata: it should be more 1/6
2016-09-07 15:50 Monstrata: but it also isn't that accurate
2016-09-07 15:51 Monstrata: so I just used a slider instead of some 1/6 repeats
2016-09-07 15:51 Monstrata: cuz it was entering a calmer section
2016-09-07 15:51 neonat: then uh 00:39:853 (4,5) -
2016-09-07 15:51 neonat: instead can u ctrl g the slider and shift the circle up there instead
2016-09-07 15:51 Monstrata: oh
2016-09-07 15:51 Monstrata: yea sure
2016-09-07 15:51 neonat: i just find the current movement for 00:39:210 (2,3,4,5) - rather awkward
2016-09-07 15:52 Monstrata: ah
2016-09-07 15:52 Monstrata: sure
2016-09-07 15:53 neonat: 00:53:996 (5) - was this supposed to be NC or
2016-09-07 15:54 Monstrata: o wops
2016-09-07 15:56 neonat: 00:55:710 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - and 00:41:996 (1,2,3,4,5) - sound similar so i think they can follow either pattern
2016-09-07 15:56 neonat: but maybe just stick to either NC after 2 bars or 1
2016-09-07 15:56 neonat: and not the 2 bars for 00:59:139 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - lol
2016-09-07 15:57 Monstrata: 01:00:853 (4) - nc;ed this
2016-09-07 15:57 Monstrata: 00:43:924 (3) - left this without NC cuz the previous one was really short. and also cuz the focus is drums instead of vocal here
2016-09-07 15:59 neonat: 01:26:996 (2) - remove whistle? kinda additional
2016-09-07 15:59 neonat: same with the end of 01:28:282 (1) -
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: o
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: k
2016-09-07 16:00 neonat: then add on 01:28:924 (3) -
2016-09-07 16:00 neonat: and remove on start of 01:29:139 (4) -
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: sure
2016-09-07 16:00 neonat: i think then it seems more fitting
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: o
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: ya that works pretty well
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: k
2016-09-07 16:00 neonat: i think i left out 01:28:710 (2) -
2016-09-07 16:01 neonat: try adding it on that too?
2016-09-07 16:01 Monstrata: mmm
2016-09-07 16:01 Monstrata: i guess it fits there too but that one seems a bit unnecessary imo
2016-09-07 16:01 Monstrata: makes it feel like theres too many whistles suddenly
2016-09-07 16:01 neonat: ok
2016-09-07 16:02 neonat: even though we removed more whistles than added oh the irony haha
2016-09-07 16:02 Monstrata: lol
2016-09-07 16:04 neonat: 02:18:633 (2,4) - removing one of the slider end whistles here, what do you think?
2016-09-07 16:04 neonat: or both
2016-09-07 16:05 Monstrata: hm
2016-09-07 16:05 Monstrata: i kinda like the whistles on the ends tho
2016-09-07 16:05 Monstrata: i can make the volume lower tho, i was kinda going for an echo rhythm here
2016-09-07 16:06 Monstrata: like on the slider-ends
2016-09-07 16:06 neonat: maybe vol might work
2016-09-07 16:06 Monstrata: k reduced to 30
2016-09-07 16:06 Monstrata: 25 sounds a bit too soft
2016-09-07 16:07 Monstrata: actualy 25 is fine
2016-09-07 16:07 Monstrata: k :D
2016-09-07 16:07 neonat: 02:41:990 (1) - remove that slider end whistle, place it on 02:42:633 (2) -
2016-09-07 16:07 neonat: remove the one on 02:42:848 (3) - as well
2016-09-07 16:07 Monstrata: o
2016-09-07 16:07 Monstrata: yaa
2016-09-07 16:07 neonat: place it on 02:43:276 (4) -
2016-09-07 16:08 Monstrata: okay, sounds nice
2016-09-07 16:08 Monstrata: sets up the whistles for the vocals right after
2016-09-07 16:09 neonat: i like how 02:57:419 (1,2,3,4) - is every 2 objects then every object at 02:59:133 (1,2,3,4) - so now that I saw this I think you could have used the same pattern earlier at 01:31:710 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - which seemed weird for some of the sliders to have missing sounds
2016-09-07 16:09 neonat: 01:33:424 (1,2) - to be specific
2016-09-07 16:09 neonat: cuz i felt u didnt want to have it to heavily hitsounded but the 2nd kiai time u didnt have the same issue
2016-09-07 16:10 neonat: to be too*
2016-09-07 16:10 Monstrata: oh
2016-09-07 16:10 Monstrata: right i fixed those earlier sliders
2016-09-07 16:10 Monstrata: added more whistles
2016-09-07 16:10 Monstrata: 01:31:710 (1,2,3,4) - added whistles here
2016-09-07 16:14 neonat: yea
2016-09-07 16:14 neonat: that's it
2016-09-07 16:15 Monstrata: o sweet
2016-09-07 16:15 Monstrata: update?
2016-09-07 16:15 neonat: ok
2016-09-07 16:19 neonat: 01:45:205 (6,7,1) - touches hp bar though, do you really want that
2016-09-07 16:19 Monstrata: and yea, i wanna keep if its fine, cuz its important to the structure lol

GL
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
Did nobody else notice that the bpm should be 70 here?
Shocola
287 posts
Joined July 2015
Shocola

those wrote:

Did nobody else notice that the bpm should be 70 here?
Why not? :roll:
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

those wrote:

Did nobody else notice that the bpm should be 70 here?
qft

[-Chocola-] wrote:

those wrote:

Did nobody else notice that the bpm should be 70 here?
Why not? :roll:
Mainly it affects additional beats intensity for the nightcore mode, also some minor effects like pulsing in main menu, intensity of kiai flashes, etc

Won't require a lot of effort to fix if someone cares.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Poked goldenwolf and he said 140 fits the structure better but admits that 70bpm can also work. I'd prefer to use 140 in this case since the song is mapped like 140 bpm song.
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
You're right, but did you know that 280bpm would also work? Just listening to the preview and take note of when the bass and snare kick in, and you'll see that the bpm is 70. There was a case in the past where I had to explain this but am somehow unable to find it for reference, but I hope that won't be necessary.
Pachiru
osu! Alumni
2,957 posts
Joined June 2013
Pachiru
bass bass kick kick bass kick kick
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,844 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru

those wrote:

You're right, but did you know that 280bpm would also work? Just listening to the preview and take note of when the bass and snare kick in, and you'll see that the bpm is 70. There was a case in the past where I had to explain this but am somehow unable to find it for reference, but I hope that won't be necessary.
i would agree here. bpm should follow kicks and drum. and wrong bpm is against RC
its an easy fix anyway. half bpm double SV
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
You here kicks and drums, I hear Flower Dance.

BPM is debatable. I think 140 fits the song much better.
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
Debatable for the untrained maybe, and even then that's a stretch. But if you don't care about accuracy, then whatever, right? It's perfectly fine if you knowingly want to be worse than what takes next to no time to fix.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Well, I've discussed my view on the bpm, and I've asked other pro-timers for their opinion, and we agree that 140 bpm fits the song's structure better.

Consider that the term is "beats" per minute, not snares per minute, or kicks per minute. Have a nice day!
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Doyak
I haven't heard the music yet, but there exists a bpm that is 'musically' right, and it usually comes with the snare sounds (not always though), and we should follow that no matter how the map is mapped like. Because timing points should alwats represent the music as best as they can.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

Monstrata wrote:

fits the song's structure better
Can you please elaborate?
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Structure first of all; as in the type of rhythms I employ, and their associated spacing, the sounds and rhythm choices that I follow, all of which suggest a 140 bpm style of mapping. This is the map's aspect, which is potentially artificial, as I could have mapped this to a 280 bpm style too. So let's consider the song now.

Structure too, in how the instruments and vocals interact, as well as the specific rhythms that are contained in each measure. Halving the NC rhythm in this map would be a good indicator of why the rhythm, and the density of the notes suggests 140 bpm. Of course, musically, all of for example 03:02:562 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - can be one measure on 70 bpm. But you would halve the NC. Your motivation for NC'ing may be because the combo's are too long, but probably, your motivation for NC'ing is because notes like 03:04:276 - are downbeats where an NC would fit. Consider where the vocals are stressed too, and how dense much of the map is, in terms of drums, and other instruments. This is the song's aspect.

Put them together, with the song itself suggesting 140 bpm, and the mapping reflecting this through rhythm choices, and mapping, and you see why this is 140 bpm.

I'm all for fixing stuff if It's worth fixing. I mean, I requested a DQ on my Inferno map even after alacat said the concerns brought up by the modder were valid, but not important enough to absolutely require a disqualification: p/5390054. I maintain the same stance with all my maps, because requalifying is simple for me, and i'm not in a position where I'm having trouble ranking my maps. But I genuinely believe this is 140 bpm.
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
If you didn't already know, BPM is purely for defining the number of milliseconds between each object and has absolutely nothing to do with how and where objects are placed. As a seemingly obvious example, https://osu.ppy.sh/s/99918. You would argue that this map was "mapped like 160 bpm" similarly how your map is "mapped like 140 bpm", but these phrases don't mean anything besides setting a base amount of time between each object; denser sections are just a fractional factor of milliseconds based on the base amount of time.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Like I said, the mapping aspect is potentially artificial, which is why the composition of the song itself is the crux of my argument.

Would you consider stuff like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/349445 350 bpm then? Because there are kicks on every beat in Makina. Basing a bpm solely on the percussion won't work with all cases, unfortunately. Music is much more complex and rich.
Evening
2,464 posts
Joined December 2012
Evening
kinda have to justify with the length of an instrumental sequence here but if the thread is talking about how it's "mapped" then i can't really say much

00:28:282 - just for example, the piano sequence here would last for 2 bars on 140 BPM (it should be 70 BPM so it lasts 1 bar (and that should be ideal, right(??)))

01:36:848 - another example here would be the hi-hat/click sequence in this chorus, @ 01:39:848 - it's 1/8 (or 1/6?) and also @ 01:43:276 - it does the same thing again, from this, we can say that the instrumental sequence lasts for 2 bars here too

think these stuff repeat so I wouldn't really repeat too

Another thing that made me feel that this should be relatively slow would be that there isn't an instrument that is constantly utilizing the 140 1/1 rhythm, felt that the 2nd and 4th beat is redundant in a way, much like how some songs can be set to double the bpm and still sound sensible.

just my 2cents
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Hmm... @Evening I think your assumption is that a recurring instrumental sequence = a measure being repeated. As in, A A B B if this were a rhyme scheme. But I think its AB AB CD CD.
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Doyak
I would like to check this myself but can't be online until nighttime (around 6 hours) so imma do that then.
Evening
2,464 posts
Joined December 2012
Evening

Monstrata wrote:

Hmm... @Evening I think your assumption is that a recurring instrumental sequence = a measure being repeated. As in, A A B B if this were a rhyme scheme. But I think its AB AB CD CD.
it is an assumption to back up my stand as to quantify it

doesn't really explain the click sequence though, its unique sequence (ends on the 1/8) lasts through 2 entire bars but if you see it as 1 unique sequence = 2 bars then i have nothing else to say i suppose
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Anyways, seems like there are differing opinions, which is fine. I believe its 140bpm, and hopefully I've explained my reasoning clearly. I trust the people who time maps on a regular basis, and both modders I consulted on timing gave me 140 bpm.
Bonsai
1,212 posts
Joined July 2011
Bonsai
I've been called for my opinion on this, and I am 100% for 70BPM, I don't even see any reason for it to be 140BPM, all the reasons you brought up were either about the map or the feeling, and I for one felt from the first second I heard it in song select that it's 70BPM, I mean just look at the pulsating speed of the logo in the menu, that seems waay to hectic imo. And all the technical aspects that have already been mentioned hint to 70BPM too.
(I think I time more regularly than GoldenWolf nowadays, also I discuss half/full-BPM-stuff quite often with pishi bc there's a lot of songs where it's much more complicated than here xd)
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Well, I'm 100% sure its 140 bpm. I'm aware it can also be interpreted as 70 bpm, but for me, that doesn't capture the song, only a layer of the song. I'm sure we can agree that the actual timing of the song (snapping, whether its 35/70/140/280/560 bpm) is accurate. We disagree on what number to give it, and what subsequent snapping to give all objects in the map (whether they should be 1/4 or 1/8 etc...). The only differences between 70 and 140 bpm is the kiai flashes and the main menu pulse, and while Bonsai believes it's too fast, I think it's just right.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

Monstrata wrote:

The only differences between 70 and 140 bpm is the kiai flashes and the main menu pulse, and while Bonsai believes it's too fast, I think it's just right.

Sieg wrote:

Mainly it affects additional beats intensity for the nightcore mode, also some minor effects like pulsing in main menu, intensity of kiai flashes, etc.
Gaia
2,808 posts
Joined May 2013
Gaia
p/3918657

nothing is being abused here either, please just let the mapper express his map the way he wants to
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
Monstrata, you do realize that structurally, doubling the BPM also doubles the structural scale, right?


No shit, if a vocal line lasts two measures, if you double the bpm, it's going to last one measure, and will "fit structurally". It's still wrong.


Just by looking at the beginning of the chorus, from a vocal standpoint, 01:36:848 - is the start of the first line, 01:40:276 - is the start of the second (the vocalist starts early to emphasis the ee sound), with 01:43:705 - being the start of the third (again, vocalist starts early), 01:47:133 - the fourth, etc. Doubling the BPM means you have major downbeats in the middle of these sections, where, entirely by coincidence, the music also occasionally changes up slightly. But the music isn't structured to have measure beats in the middle of the vocal lines. It's structured to have most of the chorus flow into a doubled pair of 4-measure vocal paragraphs. That's what music do.

This is why I get so annoyed over your 4/4/4/4 structre spam - I know you, at least unconsciously, understand these concepts and apply them extremely efficiently. Unfortunately, even where they don't fit.


Like, 140bpm is functional here, because the musical structure is very clean and even. But if this track were more unevenly structured, you'd have cases where you had major downbeats where there are just normal downbeats. This is what happens when Nightcore is used - it throws cymbals (i think it's cymbals, haven't used nightcore in years) on every major measure downbeat because that's how 99% of nightcore is structured. This is why it's so commonly referred to when talking about double bpm tracks - because it can be used as a point against doubling the BPM because it debases the structure of the track.



tl;dr calling it "well its structured like 140bpm" is a major error because doubling the bpm can still make it somewhat "fit" while still being blatantly incorrect. I personally don't feel it's an error worth DQing over, but generally speaking people should be educated, rather than reprimanded, for making fairly innocent mistakes. Nobody really gives a shit about kiai flashes or menu pulsing or god forbid, nightcore overlay sound fitting-ness.

PS: It's absolutely, 100%, positively for sure, structured at 70bpm. But I don't care if it's 140bpm.

PSS: (I'm pretty sure my fuego map is structured at 100bpm, but it's too busy for me to map it at anything but 200bpm, sue me and get ready to DQ that if you DQ this lol)

PSSS: SHUT UP PISHI IT'S HARD TO WORDS

PSSSS: yeah looking at the non-chorus parts it's really really obvious that every other measure downbeat isn't actually on any relevant musical beat, this is an obvious enough clue that the bpm is doubled
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

Shiirn wrote:

Like, 140bpm is functional here, because the musical structure is very clean and even... etc...
The bpm isn't being blatantly doubled here, nor does it only "somewhat" fit, that's the thing :P. Like I said, it's 100% 140 bpm. But i'm aware it can be seen as 70 bpm too. Anyways, the post Gaia made is quite relevant too, and previous discussions involving doubling bpms have all ended in both numbers being fine.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
it doesn't only "somewhat" fit. it doesn't fit at all outside the chorus. see: half the measures having pointless downbeats


but it's still functionally fine and isn't dq-worthy, it's just something to bear in mind. This map really should have had 70bpm, but if it doesn't, oh well.
Frim4503
2,067 posts
Joined July 2013
Frim4503
tbh i think the bpm is 70bpm cuz somehow feel really strange when i play it (maybe it's just me).
also maybe it will be better if you use 70bpm then increase thye sv, example : https://osu.ppy.sh/b/850729

just letting out my useless opinion
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