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UNDEAD CORPORATION - Bloodthirsty Nightmare Lul...

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Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

viptwo wrote:

EphemeralFetish wrote:

And after DQ I said I was gonna take a break then come back and apply stuff. Quit assuming shit. The entire point of waiting on a QAT was to come to a middle ground regarding both sides.
There is no middle ground. The map has been disqualified, that's your answer right there.
And concerning your willingness to "apply stuff", you flat out denied a lengthy mod of good points with basically "I think it's ok/plays well/I like it better".

You have to work on your attitude.
How many fucking times do I have to say I was giving my side to come to a middle ground if possible, just because I deny and disagree with something doesnt mean I wont go back and apply it after discussion and coming to an agreement.
vipto
And again, there is no middle ground.
There is no "let's settle on this and rank it again yeah?"
There however is a "it is your turn to apply mods and take feedback seriously".
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

viptwo wrote:

And again, there is no middle ground.
There is no "let's settle on this and rank it again yeah?"
There however is a "it is your turn to apply mods and take feedback seriously".
Which I said I was going to do. Please read the fucking thread holy shit.
vipto

EphemeralFetish wrote:

viptwo wrote:

And again, there is no middle ground.
There is no "let's settle on this and rank it again yeah?"
There however is a "it is your turn to apply mods and take feedback seriously".
Which I said I was going to do. Please read the fucking thread holy shit.
I don't think swearing at me is going to make you any more believable. You've already shown how serious you take feedback.

You need to get off your high horse.
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish
Okay, went back and applied almost all of Handsomes mod, went through the others again and changed a couple things, mainly bloodthirsty solo, hopefully I managed to catch the guitar parts properly for that. Also went and did a couple things a bit later to make the changes I made consistent throughout.

Im still adamant about Empress solo, so thats still on the cards for discussion.

Ill pull up the mods just to show which parts I went with in a bit.
Speed of Snail
Seeing this get qual'd and coming back to it, I also appreciate how my mod was replied to, but mostly discounted, that aside you did agree with a point I made.
Followed by not doing anything to the map and not crediting my mod either.

Really appreciate it.
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

TheOnlyLeon wrote:

Seeing this get qual'd and coming back to it, I also appreciate how my mod was replied to, but mostly discounted, that aside you did agree with a point I made.
Followed by not doing anything to the map and not crediting my mod either.

Really appreciate it.
Well it was 3 points, I didnt apply any, the last one is what Im looking to debate about. Plus I never asked you to mod this so you did it at your own risk of me denying everything.
Kibbleru
i agree with most of nathan's points u shud seriously consider them.

low angle jumps at high bpm plays really awkwardly
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

Kibbleru wrote:

i agree with most of nathan's points u shud seriously consider them.

low angle jumps at high bpm plays really awkwardly
Gonna go over that again to see about empress stuff since that was the majority of the post.
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish
Doing this before I forget, and Ill do Nathans again when I figure out what I want to do with empress solo,

handsome wrote:

hello :) concerned community member

00:18:397 (1,2,3) - there shouldn't be implied emphasis on 1, its just a kick, nothing special. however you've masked two pretty distinct sounds iin 00:18:564 (3) - , which are much more suitable for emphasis. adding on to that, the emphasis created on 00:18:730 (1,2,3,4) - seems odd. the implied pressure is on the reverse slider's head, but there's nothing special on it compared to its reverses. putting those together, i feel that this rhythm would be a much better representation. http://i.imgur.com/PO2hXuG.png - Applied
00:20:064 (1,2,3) - the short 'sound' that comes up is actually audible on 00:20:342 - , i suggest this: http://i.imgur.com/5M0QmjJ.png and to prevent confusion you can do the same to the next repeat (00:20:397 (3) - ). - Applied
00:20:953 (1,2,3,4) - i'm of the opinion that the jumps would be much more comfortable if there was more momentum associated with them, try starting off with slightly lower spacing because this is the first occurance - Tried something else, scaled down a bit so its less harsh.
00:21:397 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - the streamjumps are small enough to feel inconsequential but at the same time they conflict greatly with the design choices put out so far, with no reasonable justification behind it. the only change is the vocals that appear but the streamjumps or the NC patterns don't reflect them. if you were mapping to the drums it'd be cooler if you used increased spacing throughout, rather than grouped 4s. - Got rid of the jumps.
00:26:397 (3,4,5,6) - i don't think staggered spacing works well considering every single drum hit has equal pressure here, a regular star pattern would fit nicely, possibly with lower spacing. - This was actually a mistake I didnt spot.
00:28:064 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - similar to jumps previously mentioned, there could be more usage of momentum, its very abrupt now and the spacing/pattern usage seems random. 00:28:397 (5,11) - seems to be the points with higher spacing to give more emphasis, but it doesn't have enough contrast to make a noticeable difference. - I think this one is fine but I did scale it down.
00:31:619 (2,3,4,5) - seems like these have been patterned in a way that doesn't bring emphasis to 00:31:730 (3) - , i suggest doing something a little different along the lines of: http://i.imgur.com/gu8zneC.png apart from the patterning, i think more NCs could be used to show discerning emphasis on the suitable notes, such as 00:32:619 (4) - 00:34:397 (7) - Applied this, but I dont think the NC is needed.
00:37:064 (7) - this feels like a 'i ran out of screenspace' pattern, cuz i encounter this a lot myself when mapping. i think a rework of this whole pattern 00:36:064 (1,2,3,4,5) - would be more suitable. right now the position of 7 is suddenly spaced so far, and under a visible overlap at that point which really ups the difficulty to hit this slider, even though it doesn't have a special emphasis on it. - Rather than redoing the whole thing I fiddled around with the end.
00:37:397 (1,2,3) - it strikes me as odd that this is the outlier in the whole square pattern, but i assume its because it starts on a finish lol - Yeah I dont see a problem with this.
00:38:730 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - in this section, the only tick without an audible sound would be 00:38:897 (3) - and maybe 00:39:230 -. right now i can't find much reasoning behind the rhythm emphasis behind the repeats and 'doubles', or why there was an ignored sound on 00:39:342 - . this would be ideal for simplicity, http://i.imgur.com/epCQWTd.png. but seing as how youd' like to keep it fancy maybe http://i.imgur.com/mKM79AO.png, i actually like this too since theres more emphasis on where the 1/4 sliders are. - Thanks, I had trouble figuring out exactly what was going on here, I might go back to have a gap before the next combo though just because its so hard to hear anything there, and it would make it a bit easier.
00:42:064 (1,2,3,4,5) - http://i.imgur.com/pg6Hp0r.png this could be cool if you were mapping to vocals (i think you were) - Was mapping to guitar, I dont really wanna change this.
00:45:064 (2,3) - really feel like these should be swapped in rhythm. they oppose the vocals and guitar. - Tried something.
00:50:064 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - having higher spaced versions of 00:49:730 (1,2,3,4,5) - would be better fitting, as right now the only emphasis on 00:50:397 (1) - would be 'end of a stream', but you can up that by giving it a large spacing jump. - Increased spacing.
00:50:730 - althought you're not wrong or anything with the current patterns and spacing, i highly suggest reworking this section with the piano to be noticeably different from the previous parts. its a noticeable shift in music. and could be represented differently. there could be more circles and lower spacing (mapped like an alternating map), or possibly more sliders instead. 99% chance you wouldn't bother but i strongly recommend it. - Personally disagree, Wanna stick to drums and guitar and the sliders for those line up with piano well anyways.
01:01:064 (1) - a reverse or a long slider is better fitting, although it 'ignores' the drums but theres a really audible held guitar sound here! - Yeah since the whole pattern is for the drums I dont wanna cover them.

just dropping some stuff first to chum the waters
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish
Okay Round 2, Anything I still disagree on Ill just leave blank since I already explained. Some of this is applied from Handsomes mod as well so if I can remember any that line up ill point that out. Nevermind it was literally one thing.

sukiNathan wrote:

  1. 04:40:347 (9,1) - Nothing here calls for such a sharp and massive jump following up with a 180 transition into the stream
    06:12:124 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - None of this 1/4 is really emphasizing to anything; from what I can tell maybe you were just simplifying the mess of guitar snaps, but I think there are better options. You could just use repeats for 1/3 or 1/6 rhythms while still keeping the 1/4 as circles, even vice versa w/e - Tried to keep this aggressive but Ive moved the stream to allow for a bit less space going from the single into the spaced stream.
  2. 06:14:236 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - - Still think this is fine, and Im not sure what could be wrong, the snapping seems good and the slider heads are on the clean guitar notes.
  3. 02:38:064 (1,2,3,4) - The first 3 circles of this pattern start out super snappy, then switches to a random wide angle on 4... which is the highest pitched guitar note out of these. This could fit the guitar intensity more while still keeping the overall shape. - Yeah this is one of the ones I fixed as you suggested.
  4. 01:44:064 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - These angles have the same problem as above. The overall spacing makes sense, but here it's barely significant when the movement is underwhelming. The triangles are sharp individually, but each shift between them is wide angled.
  5. 02:58:057 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - aaa same as above
  6. 02:54:279 (2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - What's with the grouping and NCing of these circles? I don't hear any pitch changes in the guitar up until 02:55:057 (2), and as for percussion, you're actually placing more emphasis on the less intense kicks over the snares.
  7. 06:18:124 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I don't see any musical reason behind the large differences in spacing for the two groups of 4. The only note that stands out to me is 06:18:124 (1), but everything else is relatively within the same pitch range. - Since the first of these 4 starts on a higher pitch than the second, Ive gone and swapped them around, so it gets smaller as you go instead of larger, should make a bit more sense now.
  8. 06:19:902 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Same thing here; 06:20:347 (1) - should have the largest jump, but instead you have 06:20:124 (3,4) - and 06:20:569 (3,4) - which are more spaced despite being lower intensity. - Re did this to hopefully match your explanation.
  9. 06:28:680 (4,1) - Another random jump... Actually the entirety of 06:27:902 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - is just weird. 06:28:236 (4) - 06:28:569 (3) - 06:28:902 (2) - are guitar notes that stand out, but none of them are emphasized since they're all consistent in spacing and all wide angled. Especially 06:29:680 (1) - which has a crash.
  10. 06:30:124 (3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - So the jump between the two groups is good, but 06:30:569 (1,2,3,4) - uses the same DS as 06:30:124 (3,4,5,6) - which is lower in pitch asdjklgasdl
  11. 06:31:458 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - This isn't necessarily a problem, but seriously, you could do something at least a little more interesting than this. There are some guitar rhythms you can take advantage of like the 1/2 at 06:32:124 - 06:33:458 - etc. It doesn't even have to be the guitar really. Using circles before the crashes at 06:33:236 (1) - and 06:35:013 (1) - would be much more impactful than just slider spam.
  12. 06:42:124 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - oh god this is literally a combination of all the spacing/angle problems I've mentioned so far. 06:42:124 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Starts out zig zagging and then uses a wide angled transition in between the 2 groups. Then 06:43:013 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - here it just completely drops the sharp angles and uses the same ds despite the build up in pitch. 06:43:902 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - So much variation in spacing with no intensity changes. - Im still thinking these last few are fine with the explanations Ive given
- Glu -
I want this ranked. I have been waiting for someone to map this for so long. Thanks for mapping and good luck getting it ranked. Looking forward to it.!
Rohulk
It's a good map. Don't see any things want to see changed. Every weird double on a slider and sliderjump part seems doable to me after i played it just 2 times, so I'll say that after playing this 10+ times any part that seemed dumb in the beginning will become natural.

I say people are missing the point here a bit. Everyone ever will be able to do the weird jumps, sliderjumps, 3-5 bursts and doubles and stuff waaaaaaaaaay before they will be able to even have the stamina to play all the streams in this. Whatever playability or flow or song-following problem there may be here, it's a non-issue in contrast to the raw skill required to play this.

We should let players have aspirations of being able to pass/play/fc maps that are outrageously outside their skill level. Having ranked maps such as this will make some players want to improve and have something to work towards. Please make it happen. This is my player perspective, a player who focuses more on improvement and leeches motivation from anything he can.
I think having such a map ranked would benefit those kinds of player's enjoyment of a challenge and fun of playing, and let's be honest after a certain difficulty, like this map, it ALL becomes about FUN and improvement and NOT mapping... I think a few mapping ideas and rules go out the window when we are talking about a super high bpm, deathstream justifiable, melodic death metal map. We should all let the players who can enjoy this, enjoy it more by being ranked and let our mapping OCD take a break.
What I'm saying is that any player who is able to play this map, would scoff at these 'issues'. And that's what a game is about, the player, not the creator or creation process.
I like the standard this map sets as to stamina, finger control and reading. It's amazing training and the mapping itself is fun.

Would rank/10
VINXIS

Rohulk wrote:

and let's be honest after a certain difficulty, like this map, it ALL becomes about FUN and improvement and NOT mapping... I think a few mapping ideas and rules go out the window when we are talking about a super high bpm, deathstream justifiable, melodic death metal map. We should all let the players who can enjoy this, enjoy it more by being ranked and let our mapping OCD take a break.
no wtf ur basicaly just digging a deeper grave for this map saying this lol.., it gives the mild/indirect impression that this sudnt b ranked cuz "DAE FOLLOW MAPPING CONCEPTS/RULES FOR MAPPING HIGH BPM XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD"

rest of that is ok i gues imo,,

inb4 ppl get baited by ths even tho i ltiaerly just said nothing LUL

btw 06:03:458 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - streamz lik ths play lik shit just look at othr mapz tht do this (gabe power is a gud example)
07:15:680 (1) - also tak out th nc here
Monstrata
Rohulk's avatar accurately describes the mapping standards currently imposed by the community. I love it xD.

I agree to a certain extent though. Mapping challenging stuff is fun and rewarding honestly. Not all maps are meant to be easily fc'ed. Sometimes a map is fun not because of all the fun and original patterns it employs, but because it gives the player an interesting challenge, whether it be reading, extremely high SV's, or just some sort of gimmick etc... Where some people derive fun from these maps, others might derive cancer. It happens. But there's a clear difference between "fun and challenging maps", and rankable "fun and challenging maps". The map still has to go through the modding process if it wants to be ranked. Why? So the map can be improved to a subjectively sufficient quality standard. The community decides what maps get through to the ranked section. And unfortunately the community is mainly mappers, not players. We make the maps, you simply play our creations. If we didn't exist, you wouldn't have songs to play, so trust our judgement a bit more please. What is playable is not always good.
emilia
u spelt remilia wrong, u made it rhyme with my name.. double "l" haha...

kds pls ... .... ..
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

VINXIS wrote:

Rohulk wrote:

and let's be honest after a certain difficulty, like this map, it ALL becomes about FUN and improvement and NOT mapping... I think a few mapping ideas and rules go out the window when we are talking about a super high bpm, deathstream justifiable, melodic death metal map. We should all let the players who can enjoy this, enjoy it more by being ranked and let our mapping OCD take a break.
no wtf ur basicaly just digging a deeper grave for this map saying this lol.., it gives the mild/indirect impression that this sudnt b ranked cuz "DAE FOLLOW MAPPING CONCEPTS/RULES FOR MAPPING HIGH BPM XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD"

rest of that is ok i gues imo,,

inb4 ppl get baited by ths even tho i ltiaerly just said nothing LUL

btw 06:03:458 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - streamz lik ths play lik shit just look at othr mapz tht do this (gabe power is a gud example) - Nice Meme
07:15:680 (1) - also tak out th nc here - Gonna keep to be safe. Im sure if I took it out someone would want it back because of the sudden direction change.

[ Emillia ] wrote:

u spelt remilia wrong, u made it rhyme with my name.. double "l" haha...

kds pls ... .... ..
I didnt even notice. Good spot. KDS Deny inbound :^)
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish
Okay, went through again myself and did a couple bits of optimisation myself, I also pulled the whole combo around 05:03:180 (12,13) - up so they wernt off screen, even if it was rankable before. Just to be safe.

If anyone else still has some issues please let me know. If not Ill probably go for the re qualify later today.

EDIT: I also changed 06:29:680 (1,2) - as suggested in nathans mod. I didnt go over that again last time.
[Hiiro Sakaki]
Heya~
In the middle of ACTUAL mods, I'll point out that you may add to the tags "The Violation Fleshgod Apocalypse" as The Empress is made as a mix of Flander theme and The Violation by Fleshgod~

Good luck !
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

[Hiiro Sakaki] wrote:

Heya~
In the middle of ACTUAL mods, I'll point out that you may add to the tags "The Violation Fleshgod Apocalypse" as The Empress is made as a mix of Flander theme and The Violation by Fleshgod~

Good luck !
Is it really? Any source?
[Hiiro Sakaki]
https://twitter.com/Ak39everlasting/status/756117954027261952

That's the best I can find so far, but it's a common thing to tell The Empress is based off The Violation (Listen to the intro and the chords progression)
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

[Hiiro Sakaki] wrote:

https://twitter.com/Ak39everlasting/status/756117954027261952

That's the best I can find so far, but it's a common thing to tell The Empress is based off The Violation (Listen to the intro and the chords progression)
Good enough for me, Ill add that in. Thanks.
Wormi
06:12:124 (2) - Isn't this whole stream overmapped?
Would a 1/3 fit better here? (or another rythm based on sliders or something?)

edit: Also, shouldn't the background be 1366x768?
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

Worminators wrote:

06:12:124 (2) - Isn't this whole stream overmapped?
Would a 1/3 fit better here? (or another rythm based on sliders or something?)

edit: Also, shouldn't the background be 1366x768?
90% 1/4 with a few random notes thrown in. Im still not sure about trying to change this one since this is just as close.

BG is fine if its a couple pixels under.
Alheak
Very nice, may 2016 be the year of impossible Undead Corp sets!

Have a few (useless) stars because I my OCD wanna see +100
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish
06:12:124 (1) - Changed stream to be 1/3 and 1/4 but honestly I think it would still be better as all 1/4

Again, if no-one else mentions anything Ill try and Re qualify this tomorrow.
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish
Last update post. Ill be calling the BN's today for requalify.

Spoke to Azer and he suggested 01:20:064 (1) - To be changed from all sliders since it adds some rather un-needed reading, so replaced with simple streams. Nothing else caught his attention.

Quick IRC with Alheak as well to change the 1/4 stream at 06:12:124 (1) - To match the varying rhythm between 1/3 and 1/4 as best as I could.

Anyways. I think were ready for requalify now.
Wormi
Can you please change the background image to this one that is actually 1366x768?
http://puu.sh/rgKVA/5aa9bac141.jpg

I resized it from the highest resolution I found and you can see it has a better quality, sharper edges and looks less blurry
(The fact that the image was not exactly 1366x768 was messing with my OCD)
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

Worminators wrote:

Can you please change the background image to this one that is actually 1366x768?
http://puu.sh/rgKVA/5aa9bac141.jpg

I resized it from the highest resolution I found and you can see it has a better quality, sharper edges and looks less blurry
(The fact that the image was not exactly 1366x768 was messing with my OCD)
Sure thing. My photoshop is broke and had to use a shitty online editor, so that might explain the bad quality. Thanks
Pelzio
Battle
not rly lo
Weriko
inb4 rank
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

Weriko wrote:

inb4 rank
Still need to find 2 replacement BN's

If any BN's read this, hit me up. :^)
Cryptic

EphemeralFetish wrote:

Still need to find 2 replacement BN's
You lost 2 of the 3? Damn.
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

Cryptic wrote:

EphemeralFetish wrote:

Still need to find 2 replacement BN's
You lost 2 of the 3? Damn.
Spaghetti didnt really like the map but was just helping out cause I couldnt find anyone. Kagetsu wants to avoid drama.
xDololow

EphemeralFetish wrote:

... avoid drama.
Drama in circle clicking game. LUL LUL LUL
Cherry Blossom
That's sad but.
Nobody, and i said, NOBODY in this community is able to judge a map like this.
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
I didn't say this map is bad, but ranking this map doesn't make sense for now, since nobody can't judge it.
Topic Starter
EphemeralFetish

Cherry Blossom wrote:

That's sad but.
Nobody, and i said, NOBODY in this community is able to judge a map like this.
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
I didn't say this map is bad, but ranking this map doesn't make sense for now, since nobody can't judge it.
I think its easy to judge. You just need to go about it differently. Rather than looking at the map as a whole you can just break everything down into small parts and judge those. Even looking at each combo. Much easier to judge it that way, and all long as each small section works and fits into the next then the map as a whole is fine.
Weber

Cherry Blossom wrote:

That's sad but.
Nobody, and i said, NOBODY in this community is able to judge a map like this.
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
I didn't say this map is bad, but ranking this map doesn't make sense for now, since nobody can't judge it.
a. its passable
b. its not alien
c. its not even CLOSE to being alien
d. its not even like the map has difficult to understand concepts
e. its not alien
f. its STILL not alien

if you would like to clarify exactly what is so unjudgable about the map as to warrant it as unrankable, please do share

edit: mashallah
Cherry Blossom
@Weber
Okay then.
Find me someone in this community that is able to play this map properly and pass, and which has also enough modding skills, and not "please change this pattern" without giving a good reason, and without understanding the whole mechanic of the map.
And i didn't say this map looks like Alien, there is a huge difference between them.
Monstrata wanted to create another concept behind his map by making it intentionally ugly in order to make it "fit better" the song. While EphemeralFetish's map has a "simple concept" but looks as difficult as Alien.

@EphemeralFetish
And it's a bad idea to take patterns one by one. A map is made by its global structure, and judging patterns one by one doesn't make sense, because you ignore the context around it. And the context must not be forgotten.
Charles explained something similar in this video (around 2mins), please look at it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRW8EGbdfLA
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