don't want to type out a full essay on why but simply put i don't think blood thirsty nightmare is a song meant to be mapped. the way its mapped here makes it obvious that a song like this is difficult to express in mapping, yet no one seems to realize that since only a handful of players including my self can play it. so yeah, as a player (and small amount of mapping experience) i'd probably agree with spaghetti on the remap thing (if its even possible making a good map to a song like that)
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UNDEAD CORPORATION - Bloodthirsty Nightmare Lul...
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why map if no one can play? xd
where are my maps made for DT and my tv size pp maps?
who cares about a well mapped map that actually complements the song right?
when not even a year ago people complained about tv size and mapping
what the fuck is going on now
where are my maps made for DT and my tv size pp maps?
who cares about a well mapped map that actually complements the song right?
when not even a year ago people complained about tv size and mapping
what the fuck is going on now
its maps like these that get more attention when on the discussion of dq than actually being ranked
Or what if...hold on...don't let me hit u with too much here...Sing wrote:
so we got shiirn 41k saying it plays gud
and smoothie wolrd and some other top players prob too thatre saying it plays bad
one of yall wrong
Both of them are correct? What if the world wasn't black or white? What if...mapping isn't supposed to be black or white?
osu has always been very flip-floppy "yo this is the right way to do things" to "nah this is the wrong way".
Divisiveness only breeds more and more problems. If you don't like the map, give it a 1, (or whatever score you want) right? If you do like it, give it a 10. Mapping itself is totally up to the person, and mods SOLE PURPOSE is not to neuter or have an agenda, but to rather point out inherent/accidental flaws. In the past, it was so, but now we focus on rather "please don't try things different".
There is no way to properly respond to maps like this in a way that will get them unranked, I think in almost every case it is the wrong way to approach something. As soon as it is ranked, I think more analyzing should be done, instead of calling for heads. And again, if it's basically "well I just don't like the style or the song or the bpm" just give it a 1. That's it. I totally applaud mappers who try to push the boundries in ways like this. It is what will make the game grow and not make it stagnant. Aspire to be creative and map what you like, do what you want, that's what the BEST ASPECT OF OSU HAS AND WILL BE FOREVER.
i was talking about how the ppl saying it plays well cant play it while the ppl saying it plays bad can play itBackfire wrote:
Or what if...hold on...don't let me hit u with too much here...Sing wrote:
so we got shiirn 41k saying it plays gud
and smoothie wolrd and some other top players prob too thatre saying it plays bad
one of yall wrong
Both of them are correct? What if the world wasn't black or white? What if...mapping isn't supposed to be black or white?
osu has always been very flip-floppy "yo this is the right way to do things" to "nah this is the wrong way".
Divisiveness only breeds more and more problems. If you don't like the map, give it a 1, right? If you do like it, give it a 10. Mapping itself is totally up to the person, and mods SOLE PURPOSE is not to neuter or have an agenda, but to rather point out inherent/accidental flaws. In the past, it was so, but now we focus on rather "please don't try things different".
There is no way to properly respond to maps like this in a way that will get them unranked, I think in almost every case it is the wrong way to approach something. As soon as it is ranked, I think more analyzing should be done, instead of calling for heads. And again, if it's basically "well I just don't like the style or the song or the bpm" just give it a 1. That's it. I totally applaud mappers who try to push the boundries in ways like this. It is what will make the game grow and not make it stagnant. Aspire to be creative and map what you like, do what you want, that's what the BEST ASPECT OF OSU HAS AND WILL BE FOREVER.
but i was misinformed and smoothie said it plays well so
Why do people always go crazy with textwalls...
There is discussion ongoing, so you know what it means - please discuss everything accordingly and try to stay reasonable. Anything what does not belong in this thread will be deleted.
There is discussion ongoing, so you know what it means - please discuss everything accordingly and try to stay reasonable. Anything what does not belong in this thread will be deleted.
wow ranked......
Congrats....!!!!!
Congrats....!!!!!
Absolutely, I apologize to an extent then, because I was by no means targeting you or anythingSing wrote:
i was talking about how the ppl saying it plays well cant play it while the ppl saying it plays bad can play it
but i was misinformed and smoothie said it plays well so
I think my opinion still stands, regardless, because it's a little independent from that.same tbhLigerZero wrote:
wow ranked......
Congrats....!!!!!
Jesus christ so much drama on this thread...
Looking forward to next qualify ( if you don't grave it )
Looking forward to next qualify ( if you don't grave it )
You are rank 135k in STANDARD do you even know anything relating to mapping at all? You proved no points of your own and were just riding spaghetti's post while spouting random nonsense like "you're just rejecting it because you don't want your map disqualified" what is this bullshit?Lost The Lights wrote:
I'm just gonna say this.
I'm not a standard player, neither a mapper, but Spaghetti made REALLY valid points, you're just rejecting it because you don't want your map disqualified, as any other mapper. In any case, you should rethink what Spaghetti said and ask for a DQ, since it will help you improve the quality of the map (which in my opinion is the most important thing about mapping).
Acting like this won't help you improve. If you got your map qualified, a disqualify is just to make sure the map gets better, and it will eventually get requalified, it's not the end of the world.
In any case, good luck with what you decide to do.
hello concerned community member
00:18:397 (1,2,3) - there shouldn't be implied emphasis on 1, its just a kick, nothing special. however you've masked two pretty distinct sounds iin 00:18:564 (3) - , which are much more suitable for emphasis. adding on to that, the emphasis created on 00:18:730 (1,2,3,4) - seems odd. the implied pressure is on the reverse slider's head, but there's nothing special on it compared to its reverses. putting those together, i feel that this rhythm would be a much better representation. http://i.imgur.com/PO2hXuG.png
00:20:064 (1,2,3) - the short 'sound' that comes up is actually audible on 00:20:342 - , i suggest this: http://i.imgur.com/5M0QmjJ.png and to prevent confusion you can do the same to the next repeat (00:20:397 (3) - ).
00:20:953 (1,2,3,4) - i'm of the opinion that the jumps would be much more comfortable if there was more momentum associated with them, try starting off with slightly lower spacing because this is the first occurance
00:21:397 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - the streamjumps are small enough to feel inconsequential but at the same time they conflict greatly with the design choices put out so far, with no reasonable justification behind it. the only change is the vocals that appear but the streamjumps or the NC patterns don't reflect them. if you were mapping to the drums it'd be cooler if you used increased spacing throughout, rather than grouped 4s.
00:26:397 (3,4,5,6) - i don't think staggered spacing works well considering every single drum hit has equal pressure here, a regular star pattern would fit nicely, possibly with lower spacing.
00:28:064 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - similar to jumps previously mentioned, there could be more usage of momentum, its very abrupt now and the spacing/pattern usage seems random. 00:28:397 (5,11) - seems to be the points with higher spacing to give more emphasis, but it doesn't have enough contrast to make a noticeable difference.
00:31:619 (2,3,4,5) - seems like these have been patterned in a way that doesn't bring emphasis to 00:31:730 (3) - , i suggest doing something a little different along the lines of: http://i.imgur.com/gu8zneC.png apart from the patterning, i think more NCs could be used to show discerning emphasis on the suitable notes, such as 00:32:619 (4) - 00:34:397 (7) -
00:37:064 (7) - this feels like a 'i ran out of screenspace' pattern, cuz i encounter this a lot myself when mapping. i think a rework of this whole pattern 00:36:064 (1,2,3,4,5) - would be more suitable. right now the position of 7 is suddenly spaced so far, and under a visible overlap at that point which really ups the difficulty to hit this slider, even though it doesn't have a special emphasis on it.
00:37:397 (1,2,3) - it strikes me as odd that this is the outlier in the whole square pattern, but i assume its because it starts on a finish lol
00:38:730 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - in this section, the only tick without an audible sound would be 00:38:897 (3) - and maybe 00:39:230 -. right now i can't find much reasoning behind the rhythm emphasis behind the repeats and 'doubles', or why there was an ignored sound on 00:39:342 - . this would be ideal for simplicity, http://i.imgur.com/epCQWTd.png. but seing as how youd' like to keep it fancy maybe http://i.imgur.com/mKM79AO.png, i actually like this too since theres more emphasis on where the 1/4 sliders are.
00:42:064 (1,2,3,4,5) - http://i.imgur.com/pg6Hp0r.png this could be cool if you were mapping to vocals (i think you were)
00:45:064 (2,3) - really feel like these should be swapped in rhythm. they oppose the vocals and guitar.
00:50:064 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - having higher spaced versions of 00:49:730 (1,2,3,4,5) - would be better fitting, as right now the only emphasis on 00:50:397 (1) - would be 'end of a stream', but you can up that by giving it a large spacing jump.
00:50:730 - althought you're not wrong or anything with the current patterns and spacing, i highly suggest reworking this section with the piano to be noticeably different from the previous parts. its a noticeable shift in music. and could be represented differently. there could be more circles and lower spacing (mapped like an alternating map), or possibly more sliders instead. 99% chance you wouldn't bother but i strongly recommend it.
01:01:064 (1) - a reverse or a long slider is better fitting, although it 'ignores' the drums but theres a really audible held guitar sound here!
just dropping some stuff first to chum the waters
concerned community member00:18:397 (1,2,3) - there shouldn't be implied emphasis on 1, its just a kick, nothing special. however you've masked two pretty distinct sounds iin 00:18:564 (3) - , which are much more suitable for emphasis. adding on to that, the emphasis created on 00:18:730 (1,2,3,4) - seems odd. the implied pressure is on the reverse slider's head, but there's nothing special on it compared to its reverses. putting those together, i feel that this rhythm would be a much better representation. http://i.imgur.com/PO2hXuG.png
00:20:064 (1,2,3) - the short 'sound' that comes up is actually audible on 00:20:342 - , i suggest this: http://i.imgur.com/5M0QmjJ.png and to prevent confusion you can do the same to the next repeat (00:20:397 (3) - ).
00:20:953 (1,2,3,4) - i'm of the opinion that the jumps would be much more comfortable if there was more momentum associated with them, try starting off with slightly lower spacing because this is the first occurance
00:21:397 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - the streamjumps are small enough to feel inconsequential but at the same time they conflict greatly with the design choices put out so far, with no reasonable justification behind it. the only change is the vocals that appear but the streamjumps or the NC patterns don't reflect them. if you were mapping to the drums it'd be cooler if you used increased spacing throughout, rather than grouped 4s.
00:26:397 (3,4,5,6) - i don't think staggered spacing works well considering every single drum hit has equal pressure here, a regular star pattern would fit nicely, possibly with lower spacing.
00:28:064 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - similar to jumps previously mentioned, there could be more usage of momentum, its very abrupt now and the spacing/pattern usage seems random. 00:28:397 (5,11) - seems to be the points with higher spacing to give more emphasis, but it doesn't have enough contrast to make a noticeable difference.
00:31:619 (2,3,4,5) - seems like these have been patterned in a way that doesn't bring emphasis to 00:31:730 (3) - , i suggest doing something a little different along the lines of: http://i.imgur.com/gu8zneC.png apart from the patterning, i think more NCs could be used to show discerning emphasis on the suitable notes, such as 00:32:619 (4) - 00:34:397 (7) -
00:37:064 (7) - this feels like a 'i ran out of screenspace' pattern, cuz i encounter this a lot myself when mapping. i think a rework of this whole pattern 00:36:064 (1,2,3,4,5) - would be more suitable. right now the position of 7 is suddenly spaced so far, and under a visible overlap at that point which really ups the difficulty to hit this slider, even though it doesn't have a special emphasis on it.
00:37:397 (1,2,3) - it strikes me as odd that this is the outlier in the whole square pattern, but i assume its because it starts on a finish lol
00:38:730 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - in this section, the only tick without an audible sound would be 00:38:897 (3) - and maybe 00:39:230 -. right now i can't find much reasoning behind the rhythm emphasis behind the repeats and 'doubles', or why there was an ignored sound on 00:39:342 - . this would be ideal for simplicity, http://i.imgur.com/epCQWTd.png. but seing as how youd' like to keep it fancy maybe http://i.imgur.com/mKM79AO.png, i actually like this too since theres more emphasis on where the 1/4 sliders are.
00:42:064 (1,2,3,4,5) - http://i.imgur.com/pg6Hp0r.png this could be cool if you were mapping to vocals (i think you were)
00:45:064 (2,3) - really feel like these should be swapped in rhythm. they oppose the vocals and guitar.
00:50:064 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - having higher spaced versions of 00:49:730 (1,2,3,4,5) - would be better fitting, as right now the only emphasis on 00:50:397 (1) - would be 'end of a stream', but you can up that by giving it a large spacing jump.
00:50:730 - althought you're not wrong or anything with the current patterns and spacing, i highly suggest reworking this section with the piano to be noticeably different from the previous parts. its a noticeable shift in music. and could be represented differently. there could be more circles and lower spacing (mapped like an alternating map), or possibly more sliders instead. 99% chance you wouldn't bother but i strongly recommend it.
01:01:064 (1) - a reverse or a long slider is better fitting, although it 'ignores' the drums but theres a really audible held guitar sound here!
just dropping some stuff first to chum the waters
since around 30ish posts were just complete nonsense, spam or needlessly provoking others for no reason I want to remind people to stay on topic here (not related to post above, the post this refers to aren't here anymore).
Difficult maps will always gather more attention because they cater to a pretty small target audience so a lot of people may want to make sure the map is as good as it can be, if it's made for really fast top players only so this being dq'd seems somewhat expectable. The modding panel would certainly help for cases like these and routing though.
Difficult maps will always gather more attention because they cater to a pretty small target audience so a lot of people may want to make sure the map is as good as it can be, if it's made for really fast top players only so this being dq'd seems somewhat expectable. The modding panel would certainly help for cases like these and routing though.
Topic Starter
Dropping this for a while, I honestly believe bloodthirsty is fine, minus some minor placement/optimisation that I may be missing. I have no intentions of totally remapping it or anything. And I doubt I can convince people otherwise.
Just a bit salty so I dont wanna do anything with this till I level my head a bit.
EDIT: Just from reading Handsoms mod, it seems to be mostly optimisation so Ill get around to looking at it later and probably apply some of it.
Just a bit salty so I dont wanna do anything with this till I level my head a bit.
EDIT: Just from reading Handsoms mod, it seems to be mostly optimisation so Ill get around to looking at it later and probably apply some of it.
You should definitely have a close look at the mods and try to improve / optimize your map. If anything, it doesn't have to fail because of the difficulty, because the argument that 8* ranked maps can get ranked is nonsense.EphemeralFetish wrote:
Dropping this for a while, I honestly believe bloodthirsty is fine, minus some minor placement/optimisation that I may be missing. I have no intentions of totally remapping it or anything. And I doubt I can convince people otherwise.
Just a bit salty so I dont wanna do anything with this till I level my head a bit.
EDIT: Just from reading Handsoms mod, it seems to be mostly optimisation so Ill get around to looking at it later and probably apply some of it.
Topic Starter
Its mainly the whole "remap bloodthirsty" I have issues with, because I honestly believe its fine at its core. I dont want to be that guy but I really think people just cant understand it because the song is so complex and varied. If I was forced to remap it I wouldnt be able to do so, since Id be mapping based off ideas I myself dont understand so it would never turn out good. So its either I convince people and optimise it, or it graves.Irreversible wrote:
You should definitely have a close look at the mods and try to improve / optimize your map. If anything, it doesn't have to fail because of the difficulty, because the argument that 8* ranked maps can get ranked is nonsense.EphemeralFetish wrote:
Dropping this for a while, I honestly believe bloodthirsty is fine, minus some minor placement/optimisation that I may be missing. I have no intentions of totally remapping it or anything. And I doubt I can convince people otherwise.
Just a bit salty so I dont wanna do anything with this till I level my head a bit.
EDIT: Just from reading Handsoms mod, it seems to be mostly optimisation so Ill get around to looking at it later and probably apply some of it.
I agree with you. I have seen many people just saying something like "remap this" or "nobody can pass this anyways, it's too hard" etc... I too believe that the map is fine at it's core and what idea it is based off. Still, no map if perfect instantly from the beginning and thus optimisations have to be made, which isn't a problem of course. The main problem in my oppinion is that many people are too blinded by all the jumpy PP maps that are mostly roaming osu! at the moment. I am glad that there are more non-PP maps being ranked/qualified now (e.g. Axion) since we have new BNs (I am not saying that there were no ranked non-PP maps, but if I remember correctly, there were less of them getting ranked than now [statistically]). Coming back to your map though I have to say: Yes, optimisations have to be made at some point but in my oppinion a complete remap would be absolutely ridiculous because the best thing about mapping is the part where you can express yourself in your own style, basically like drawing, and if you'd be forced to paint something that isn't your style, your enjoyment for painting this will be gone in no time, and the same goes for mapping, at least for me. But according to what you wrote I think you feel the same.EphemeralFetish wrote:
Its mainly the whole "remap bloodthirsty" I have issues with, because I honestly believe its fine at its core. I dont want to be that guy but I really think people just cant understand it because the song is so complex and varied. If I was forced to remap it I wouldnt be able to do so, since Id be mapping based off ideas I myself dont understand so it would never turn out good. So its either I convince people and optimise it, or it graves.
Long story short: I believe if you stay determined enough for ranking this map, it will get ranked eventually if you keep working on it.
If anyone reading this may not have the same oppinion as I do it is completely fine. Feel free to discuss with me!
Topic Starter
Yeah you summed that up pretty well, obviously every map can always be optimised, which is what handsomes mod is looking like, as opposed to "This is bad but I cant say why" I have no issues making changes just to tidy things up but redoing the entire base of it is just not an option for me.-Akuro wrote:
I agree with you. I have seen many people just saying something like "remap this" or "nobody can pass this anyways, it's too hard" etc... I too believe that the map is fine at it's core and what idea it is based off. Still, no map if perfect instantly from the beginning and thus optimisations have to be made, which isn't a problem of course. The main problem in my oppinion is that many people are too blinded by all the jumpy PP maps that are mostly roaming osu! at the moment. I am glad that there are more non-PP maps being ranked/qualified now (e.g. Axion) since we have new BNs (I am not saying that there were no ranked non-PP maps, but if I remember correctly, there were less of them getting ranked than now [statistically]). Coming back to your map though I have to say: Yes, optimisations have to be made at some point but in my oppinion a complete remap would be absolutely ridiculous because the best thing about mapping is the part where you can express yourself in your own style, basically like drawing, and if you'd be forced to paint something that isn't your style, your enjoyment for painting this will be gone in no time, and the same goes for mapping, at least for me. But according to what you wrote I think you feel the same.EphemeralFetish wrote:
Its mainly the whole "remap bloodthirsty" I have issues with, because I honestly believe its fine at its core. I dont want to be that guy but I really think people just cant understand it because the song is so complex and varied. If I was forced to remap it I wouldnt be able to do so, since Id be mapping based off ideas I myself dont understand so it would never turn out good. So its either I convince people and optimise it, or it graves.
Long story short: I believe if you stay determined enough for ranking this map, it will get ranked eventually if you keep working on it.
If anyone reading this may not have the same oppinion as I do it is completely fine. Feel free to discuss with me!
Again I said this last night but Im also looking to call a few people who might be able to shed some light with their opinions as well.
i mean if the map plays poorly due to how complex the song is i dont think calling that your style is enough to justify it. not enough people are looking at this map as players (only talking about the first song if it isnt clear)-Akuro wrote:
I agree with you. I have seen many people just saying something like "remap this" or "nobody can pass this anyways, it's too hard" etc... I too believe that the map is fine at it's core and what idea it is based off. Still, no map if perfect instantly from the beginning and thus optimisations have to be made, which isn't a problem of course. The main problem in my oppinion is that many people are too blinded by all the jumpy PP maps that are mostly roaming osu! at the moment. I am glad that there are more non-PP maps being ranked/qualified now (e.g. Axion) since we have new BNs (I am not saying that there were no ranked non-PP maps, but if I remember correctly, there were less of them getting ranked than now [statistically]). Coming back to your map though I have to say: Yes, optimisations have to be made at some point but in my oppinion a complete remap would be absolutely ridiculous because the best thing about mapping is the part where you can express yourself in your own style, basically like drawing, and if you'd be forced to paint something that isn't your style, your enjoyment for painting this will be gone in no time, and the same goes for mapping, at least for me. But according to what you wrote I think you feel the same.EphemeralFetish wrote:
Its mainly the whole "remap bloodthirsty" I have issues with, because I honestly believe its fine at its core. I dont want to be that guy but I really think people just cant understand it because the song is so complex and varied. If I was forced to remap it I wouldnt be able to do so, since Id be mapping based off ideas I myself dont understand so it would never turn out good. So its either I convince people and optimise it, or it graves.
Long story short: I believe if you stay determined enough for ranking this map, it will get ranked eventually if you keep working on it.
If anyone reading this may not have the same oppinion as I do it is completely fine. Feel free to discuss with me!
Topic Starter
Honestly you're not really giving any reason as to why you think its bad, not now and not when you initially checked this. There are other people who can play this who like it. Conflicting opinions. Both mean nothing if either side isnt explaining their views.
I myself can also play this, but since Im the mapper that means nothing as it just looks like me trying to pass stuff off when in reality im not.
I myself can also play this, but since Im the mapper that means nothing as it just looks like me trying to pass stuff off when in reality im not.
i think to put it quite simply its hard to take you seriously because with some of the small things people suggest you seem to have just completely deny, reminds me of what i do, which is not look at what anyone suggests to me. And lets me honest some of these jump patterns are pretty fucking awkward not to mention it gets super messy towards the end. TBH it doesnt look that bad, just take some criticism maybe and you should be fine but evidently i guess that is not ok ):
Topic Starter
I already said I was only giving my side of it to let QAT's decide which is better. Not outright shutting everything down.Squigly wrote:
i think to put it quite simply its hard to take you seriously because with some of the small things people suggest you seem to have just completely deny, reminds me of what i do, which is not look at what anyone suggests to me. And lets me honest some of these jump patterns are pretty fucking awkward not to mention it gets super messy towards the end. TBH it doesnt look that bad, just take some criticism maybe and you should be fine but evidently i guess that is not ok ):
EphemeralFetish wrote:
I already said I was only giving my side of it to let QAT's decide which is better. Not outright shutting everything down.Squigly wrote:
i think to put it quite simply its hard to take you seriously because with some of the small things people suggest you seem to have just completely deny, reminds me of what i do, which is not look at what anyone suggests to me. And lets me honest some of these jump patterns are pretty fucking awkward not to mention it gets super messy towards the end. TBH it doesnt look that bad, just take some criticism maybe and you should be fine but evidently i guess that is not ok ):
You do realize that this entire ordeal is your and and only your job. The QAT dq'd this to make you improve the map because it obviously does not meet the "quality requirement".
You make it seem like this is not your fault at all and are giving away responsibility to do anything.
Topic Starter
And after DQ I said I was gonna take a break then come back and apply stuff. Quit assuming shit. The entire point of waiting on a QAT was to come to a middle ground regarding both sides.
There is no middle ground. The map has been disqualified, that's your answer right there.EphemeralFetish wrote:
And after DQ I said I was gonna take a break then come back and apply stuff. Quit assuming shit. The entire point of waiting on a QAT was to come to a middle ground regarding both sides.
And concerning your willingness to "apply stuff", you flat out denied a lengthy mod of good points with basically "I think it's ok/plays well/I like it better".
You have to work on your attitude.
I agree that the core is definitely good and a remap is not needed.
Topic Starter
How many fucking times do I have to say I was giving my side to come to a middle ground if possible, just because I deny and disagree with something doesnt mean I wont go back and apply it after discussion and coming to an agreement.viptwo wrote:
There is no middle ground. The map has been disqualified, that's your answer right there.EphemeralFetish wrote:
And after DQ I said I was gonna take a break then come back and apply stuff. Quit assuming shit. The entire point of waiting on a QAT was to come to a middle ground regarding both sides.
And concerning your willingness to "apply stuff", you flat out denied a lengthy mod of good points with basically "I think it's ok/plays well/I like it better".
You have to work on your attitude.
And again, there is no middle ground.
There is no "let's settle on this and rank it again yeah?"
There however is a "it is your turn to apply mods and take feedback seriously".
There is no "let's settle on this and rank it again yeah?"
There however is a "it is your turn to apply mods and take feedback seriously".
Topic Starter
Which I said I was going to do. Please read the fucking thread holy shit.viptwo wrote:
And again, there is no middle ground.
There is no "let's settle on this and rank it again yeah?"
There however is a "it is your turn to apply mods and take feedback seriously".
I don't think swearing at me is going to make you any more believable. You've already shown how serious you take feedback.EphemeralFetish wrote:
Which I said I was going to do. Please read the fucking thread holy shit.viptwo wrote:
And again, there is no middle ground.
There is no "let's settle on this and rank it again yeah?"
There however is a "it is your turn to apply mods and take feedback seriously".
You need to get off your high horse.
Topic Starter
Okay, went back and applied almost all of Handsomes mod, went through the others again and changed a couple things, mainly bloodthirsty solo, hopefully I managed to catch the guitar parts properly for that. Also went and did a couple things a bit later to make the changes I made consistent throughout.
Im still adamant about Empress solo, so thats still on the cards for discussion.
Ill pull up the mods just to show which parts I went with in a bit.
Im still adamant about Empress solo, so thats still on the cards for discussion.
Ill pull up the mods just to show which parts I went with in a bit.
Seeing this get qual'd and coming back to it, I also appreciate how my mod was replied to, but mostly discounted, that aside you did agree with a point I made.
Followed by not doing anything to the map and not crediting my mod either.
Really appreciate it.
Followed by not doing anything to the map and not crediting my mod either.
Really appreciate it.
Topic Starter
Well it was 3 points, I didnt apply any, the last one is what Im looking to debate about. Plus I never asked you to mod this so you did it at your own risk of me denying everything.TheOnlyLeon wrote:
Seeing this get qual'd and coming back to it, I also appreciate how my mod was replied to, but mostly discounted, that aside you did agree with a point I made.
Followed by not doing anything to the map and not crediting my mod either.
Really appreciate it.
i agree with most of nathan's points u shud seriously consider them.
low angle jumps at high bpm plays really awkwardly
low angle jumps at high bpm plays really awkwardly
Topic Starter
Gonna go over that again to see about empress stuff since that was the majority of the post.Kibbleru wrote:
i agree with most of nathan's points u shud seriously consider them.
low angle jumps at high bpm plays really awkwardly
Topic Starter
Doing this before I forget, and Ill do Nathans again when I figure out what I want to do with empress solo,
handsome wrote:
hello
00:18:397 (1,2,3) - there shouldn't be implied emphasis on 1, its just a kick, nothing special. however you've masked two pretty distinct sounds iin 00:18:564 (3) - , which are much more suitable for emphasis. adding on to that, the emphasis created on 00:18:730 (1,2,3,4) - seems odd. the implied pressure is on the reverse slider's head, but there's nothing special on it compared to its reverses. putting those together, i feel that this rhythm would be a much better representation. http://i.imgur.com/PO2hXuG.png - Applied
00:20:064 (1,2,3) - the short 'sound' that comes up is actually audible on 00:20:342 - , i suggest this: http://i.imgur.com/5M0QmjJ.png and to prevent confusion you can do the same to the next repeat (00:20:397 (3) - ). - Applied
00:20:953 (1,2,3,4) - i'm of the opinion that the jumps would be much more comfortable if there was more momentum associated with them, try starting off with slightly lower spacing because this is the first occurance - Tried something else, scaled down a bit so its less harsh.
00:21:397 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - the streamjumps are small enough to feel inconsequential but at the same time they conflict greatly with the design choices put out so far, with no reasonable justification behind it. the only change is the vocals that appear but the streamjumps or the NC patterns don't reflect them. if you were mapping to the drums it'd be cooler if you used increased spacing throughout, rather than grouped 4s. - Got rid of the jumps.
00:26:397 (3,4,5,6) - i don't think staggered spacing works well considering every single drum hit has equal pressure here, a regular star pattern would fit nicely, possibly with lower spacing. - This was actually a mistake I didnt spot.
00:28:064 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - similar to jumps previously mentioned, there could be more usage of momentum, its very abrupt now and the spacing/pattern usage seems random. 00:28:397 (5,11) - seems to be the points with higher spacing to give more emphasis, but it doesn't have enough contrast to make a noticeable difference. - I think this one is fine but I did scale it down.
00:31:619 (2,3,4,5) - seems like these have been patterned in a way that doesn't bring emphasis to 00:31:730 (3) - , i suggest doing something a little different along the lines of: http://i.imgur.com/gu8zneC.png apart from the patterning, i think more NCs could be used to show discerning emphasis on the suitable notes, such as 00:32:619 (4) - 00:34:397 (7) - Applied this, but I dont think the NC is needed.
00:37:064 (7) - this feels like a 'i ran out of screenspace' pattern, cuz i encounter this a lot myself when mapping. i think a rework of this whole pattern 00:36:064 (1,2,3,4,5) - would be more suitable. right now the position of 7 is suddenly spaced so far, and under a visible overlap at that point which really ups the difficulty to hit this slider, even though it doesn't have a special emphasis on it. - Rather than redoing the whole thing I fiddled around with the end.
00:37:397 (1,2,3) - it strikes me as odd that this is the outlier in the whole square pattern, but i assume its because it starts on a finish lol - Yeah I dont see a problem with this.
00:38:730 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - in this section, the only tick without an audible sound would be 00:38:897 (3) - and maybe 00:39:230 -. right now i can't find much reasoning behind the rhythm emphasis behind the repeats and 'doubles', or why there was an ignored sound on 00:39:342 - . this would be ideal for simplicity, http://i.imgur.com/epCQWTd.png. but seing as how youd' like to keep it fancy maybe http://i.imgur.com/mKM79AO.png, i actually like this too since theres more emphasis on where the 1/4 sliders are. - Thanks, I had trouble figuring out exactly what was going on here, I might go back to have a gap before the next combo though just because its so hard to hear anything there, and it would make it a bit easier.
00:42:064 (1,2,3,4,5) - http://i.imgur.com/pg6Hp0r.png this could be cool if you were mapping to vocals (i think you were) - Was mapping to guitar, I dont really wanna change this.
00:45:064 (2,3) - really feel like these should be swapped in rhythm. they oppose the vocals and guitar. - Tried something.
00:50:064 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - having higher spaced versions of 00:49:730 (1,2,3,4,5) - would be better fitting, as right now the only emphasis on 00:50:397 (1) - would be 'end of a stream', but you can up that by giving it a large spacing jump. - Increased spacing.
00:50:730 - althought you're not wrong or anything with the current patterns and spacing, i highly suggest reworking this section with the piano to be noticeably different from the previous parts. its a noticeable shift in music. and could be represented differently. there could be more circles and lower spacing (mapped like an alternating map), or possibly more sliders instead. 99% chance you wouldn't bother but i strongly recommend it. - Personally disagree, Wanna stick to drums and guitar and the sliders for those line up with piano well anyways.
01:01:064 (1) - a reverse or a long slider is better fitting, although it 'ignores' the drums but theres a really audible held guitar sound here! - Yeah since the whole pattern is for the drums I dont wanna cover them.
just dropping some stuff first to chum the waters
Topic Starter
Okay Round 2, Anything I still disagree on Ill just leave blank since I already explained. Some of this is applied from Handsomes mod as well so if I can remember any that line up ill point that out. Nevermind it was literally one thing.
sukiNathan wrote:
- 04:40:347 (9,1) - Nothing here calls for such a sharp and massive jump following up with a 180 transition into the stream
06:12:124 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - None of this 1/4 is really emphasizing to anything; from what I can tell maybe you were just simplifying the mess of guitar snaps, but I think there are better options. You could just use repeats for 1/3 or 1/6 rhythms while still keeping the 1/4 as circles, even vice versa w/e - Tried to keep this aggressive but Ive moved the stream to allow for a bit less space going from the single into the spaced stream.- 06:14:236 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - - Still think this is fine, and Im not sure what could be wrong, the snapping seems good and the slider heads are on the clean guitar notes.
- 02:38:064 (1,2,3,4) - The first 3 circles of this pattern start out super snappy, then switches to a random wide angle on 4... which is the highest pitched guitar note out of these. This could fit the guitar intensity more while still keeping the overall shape. - Yeah this is one of the ones I fixed as you suggested.
- 01:44:064 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - These angles have the same problem as above. The overall spacing makes sense, but here it's barely significant when the movement is underwhelming. The triangles are sharp individually, but each shift between them is wide angled.
- 02:58:057 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - aaa same as above
- 02:54:279 (2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - What's with the grouping and NCing of these circles? I don't hear any pitch changes in the guitar up until 02:55:057 (2), and as for percussion, you're actually placing more emphasis on the less intense kicks over the snares.
- 06:18:124 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I don't see any musical reason behind the large differences in spacing for the two groups of 4. The only note that stands out to me is 06:18:124 (1), but everything else is relatively within the same pitch range. - Since the first of these 4 starts on a higher pitch than the second, Ive gone and swapped them around, so it gets smaller as you go instead of larger, should make a bit more sense now.
- 06:19:902 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Same thing here; 06:20:347 (1) - should have the largest jump, but instead you have 06:20:124 (3,4) - and 06:20:569 (3,4) - which are more spaced despite being lower intensity. - Re did this to hopefully match your explanation.
- 06:28:680 (4,1) - Another random jump... Actually the entirety of 06:27:902 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - is just weird. 06:28:236 (4) - 06:28:569 (3) - 06:28:902 (2) - are guitar notes that stand out, but none of them are emphasized since they're all consistent in spacing and all wide angled. Especially 06:29:680 (1) - which has a crash.
- 06:30:124 (3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - So the jump between the two groups is good, but 06:30:569 (1,2,3,4) - uses the same DS as 06:30:124 (3,4,5,6) - which is lower in pitch asdjklgasdl
- 06:31:458 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - This isn't necessarily a problem, but seriously, you could do something at least a little more interesting than this. There are some guitar rhythms you can take advantage of like the 1/2 at 06:32:124 - 06:33:458 - etc. It doesn't even have to be the guitar really. Using circles before the crashes at 06:33:236 (1) - and 06:35:013 (1) - would be much more impactful than just slider spam.
- 06:42:124 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - oh god this is literally a combination of all the spacing/angle problems I've mentioned so far. 06:42:124 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Starts out zig zagging and then uses a wide angled transition in between the 2 groups. Then 06:43:013 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - here it just completely drops the sharp angles and uses the same ds despite the build up in pitch. 06:43:902 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - So much variation in spacing with no intensity changes. - Im still thinking these last few are fine with the explanations Ive given
I want this ranked. I have been waiting for someone to map this for so long. Thanks for mapping and good luck getting it ranked. Looking forward to it.!
It's a good map. Don't see any things want to see changed. Every weird double on a slider and sliderjump part seems doable to me after i played it just 2 times, so I'll say that after playing this 10+ times any part that seemed dumb in the beginning will become natural.
I say people are missing the point here a bit. Everyone ever will be able to do the weird jumps, sliderjumps, 3-5 bursts and doubles and stuff waaaaaaaaaay before they will be able to even have the stamina to play all the streams in this. Whatever playability or flow or song-following problem there may be here, it's a non-issue in contrast to the raw skill required to play this.
We should let players have aspirations of being able to pass/play/fc maps that are outrageously outside their skill level. Having ranked maps such as this will make some players want to improve and have something to work towards. Please make it happen. This is my player perspective, a player who focuses more on improvement and leeches motivation from anything he can.
I think having such a map ranked would benefit those kinds of player's enjoyment of a challenge and fun of playing, and let's be honest after a certain difficulty, like this map, it ALL becomes about FUN and improvement and NOT mapping... I think a few mapping ideas and rules go out the window when we are talking about a super high bpm, deathstream justifiable, melodic death metal map. We should all let the players who can enjoy this, enjoy it more by being ranked and let our mapping OCD take a break.
What I'm saying is that any player who is able to play this map, would scoff at these 'issues'. And that's what a game is about, the player, not the creator or creation process.
I like the standard this map sets as to stamina, finger control and reading. It's amazing training and the mapping itself is fun.
Would rank/10
I say people are missing the point here a bit. Everyone ever will be able to do the weird jumps, sliderjumps, 3-5 bursts and doubles and stuff waaaaaaaaaay before they will be able to even have the stamina to play all the streams in this. Whatever playability or flow or song-following problem there may be here, it's a non-issue in contrast to the raw skill required to play this.
We should let players have aspirations of being able to pass/play/fc maps that are outrageously outside their skill level. Having ranked maps such as this will make some players want to improve and have something to work towards. Please make it happen. This is my player perspective, a player who focuses more on improvement and leeches motivation from anything he can.
I think having such a map ranked would benefit those kinds of player's enjoyment of a challenge and fun of playing, and let's be honest after a certain difficulty, like this map, it ALL becomes about FUN and improvement and NOT mapping... I think a few mapping ideas and rules go out the window when we are talking about a super high bpm, deathstream justifiable, melodic death metal map. We should all let the players who can enjoy this, enjoy it more by being ranked and let our mapping OCD take a break.
What I'm saying is that any player who is able to play this map, would scoff at these 'issues'. And that's what a game is about, the player, not the creator or creation process.
I like the standard this map sets as to stamina, finger control and reading. It's amazing training and the mapping itself is fun.
Would rank/10
no wtf ur basicaly just digging a deeper grave for this map saying this lol.., it gives the mild/indirect impression that this sudnt b ranked cuz "DAE FOLLOW MAPPING CONCEPTS/RULES FOR MAPPING HIGH BPM XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD"Rohulk wrote:
and let's be honest after a certain difficulty, like this map, it ALL becomes about FUN and improvement and NOT mapping... I think a few mapping ideas and rules go out the window when we are talking about a super high bpm, deathstream justifiable, melodic death metal map. We should all let the players who can enjoy this, enjoy it more by being ranked and let our mapping OCD take a break.
rest of that is ok i gues imo,,
inb4 ppl get baited by ths even tho i ltiaerly just said nothing LUL
btw 06:03:458 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - streamz lik ths play lik shit just look at othr mapz tht do this (gabe power is a gud example)
07:15:680 (1) - also tak out th nc here