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Notes that require 2 keys to be pressed to clear.

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +292
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Topic Starter
jesse1412

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

Shit idea. Give some of those stars to me.
Nah soz captain shitpost.
Kyshiro
Honestly sounds like a fun idea, it's funny how everyone sees a new thing and is instantly like ''OH HELL NO YOU AIN'T TOUCHING MY GAME''
Why not improve on what we already have and add more variation to the game.
It's basically that thing that's already available in taiko, right? Pressing 2 keys for a single object
JapanYoshiTheGamer

Kyshiro wrote:

Honestly sounds like a fun idea, it's funny how everyone sees a new thing and is instantly like ''OH HELL NO YOU AIN'T TOUCHING MY GAME''
Why not improve on what we already have and add more variation to the game.
It's basically that thing that's already available in taiko, right? Pressing 2 keys for a single object
Streams.


Q.E.D., bitches
diraimur
We could have 2b gamemode seperated from STD if people are affraid that it would ruin STD mapping; just check this map for example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/147910
its very fun to play, however it has some bugs, if they were cleaned and we could implement it as whole another gamemode, it would be very fun to play in my opinion.
Topic Starter
jesse1412

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

Kyshiro wrote:

Honestly sounds like a fun idea, it's funny how everyone sees a new thing and is instantly like ''OH HELL NO YOU AIN'T TOUCHING MY GAME''
Why not improve on what we already have and add more variation to the game.
It's basically that thing that's already available in taiko, right? Pressing 2 keys for a single object
Streams.


Q.E.D., bitches
Do you need mental help?
evora
Yes! This can do for osu! what the hold-notes do for Hexis, interesting mapping possibilities. Take my stars good sir.
JapanYoshiTheGamer

jesse1412 wrote:

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

Streams.


Q.E.D., bitches
Do you need mental help?
You must be the one requiring assistance, since you failed to understand this simple, obvious, and glaring problem.
JapanYoshiTheGamer

Outline wrote:

I don't know if it would be good because it would ruin the original point of osu! and would be traveling away from what it was inspired from.
Kibbleru
we can already do this by stacking 2 circles on top of each other xd
Topic Starter
jesse1412

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

Outline wrote:

I don't know if it would be good because it would ruin the original point of osu! and would be traveling away from what it was inspired from.
I think you belong in offtopic. You clearly haven't read my response to this IN THE OP and in MULTIPLE POSTS. You need reading lessons bud.
JapanYoshiTheGamer

jesse1412 wrote:

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

I think you belong in offtopic. You clearly haven't read my response to this IN THE OP and in MULTIPLE POSTS. You need reading lessons bud.
Hold on lemme see the original post and yeah no you didn't write anything about it. Your "clever" little suggestion will break streams.
Zenyatta
well, it shoudl be possible to have a note like that but it should be in another mode. maybe a MOD like DT or so where the end notes (katu and geki) if correctly spelled, are like the button you described. only way i could imagine.
Reha
-
Topic Starter
jesse1412

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

jesse1412 wrote:

I think you belong in offtopic. You clearly haven't read my response to this IN THE OP and in MULTIPLE POSTS. You need reading lessons bud.
Hold on lemme see the original post and yeah no you didn't write anything about it. Your "clever" little suggestion will break streams.
Let's see...

jesse1412 wrote:

As simple as the title suggests. A clearly defined note that requires 2 keys to be pressed simultaneously in order to hit. This wouldn't have been a real suggestion in the past because (if I recall correctly) peppy believed that osu! should be playable with 1key, but 1key play isn't even a gimmicky genre anymore, it's 100% dead.

jesse1412 wrote:

I'm saying 1key exclusive gameplay is dead, not that standard is dead. No one tries to play the game with only 1key anymore, that was an old objective of design by peppy that is now obsolete. Without using a second key, osu! is basically unplayable. These double notes would be placed by the mapper, they wouldn't be random convoluted shit. I have experimented with the use of this concept using 1/16 doubles and it is definitely a playable and interesting concept.

-Jukke- wrote:

Just no.
Also 1key playing isnt dead, alot of people singletap literally everything 140bpm and under (1/4ths) so it isnt dead. And some even singletap bpms higher than that
1key EXCLUSIVE play is dead. No one plays relevant maps with only 1key. No one refuses to alternate streams, 2key is essential and integral to the game now, that's why this idea is more valid than in the past (when peppy believed maps should be possible with one key).
You either have NO fucking clue about the original intentions of osu! or you're just acting braindead for some reason (possibly because you are but I'm an optimist). There is no way these would break streams at all, if a mapper uses these notes to create a 1/4 stream, good for them, it's most probably unplayable and no one will enjoy their map.


CrsTramorio wrote:

well, it shoudl be possible to have a note like that but it should be in another mode. maybe a MOD like DT or so where the end notes (katu and geki) if correctly spelled, are like the button you described. only way i could imagine.
Again, just don't use the maps that use these notes. Not sure why it's so hard. Automating it would be completely unplayable because auto-generation is generally shitty and the entire point is to use it to emphasize beats more intensely.

-Crying Heaven- wrote:

can someone explain me this?
Essentially it's a request to allow mappers to place a new kind of "note" that you would miss unless you pressed both z AND x at the same time.
Lacrimosa
I don't see this ever get implemented in osu!standard mode. It would completely change a mode that has been untouched from the very beginning.

Could this get implemented in a new game mode? Perhaps.

Would they create a new game mode just for this? I highly doubt it.
Topic Starter
jesse1412

Nikosbks wrote:

I don't see this ever get implemented in osu!standard mode. It would completely change a mode that has been untouched from the very beginning.

Could this get implemented in a new game mode? Perhaps.

Would they create a new game mode just for this? I highly doubt it.
No it wouldn't. Why are people so sure it will overthrow everything we've known in osu!. It would play pretty much identical to how standard plays now and it probably wouldn't be commonly used for a long time. Stop being so afraid of OPTIONAL new features.
Outline
I think it should be like in taiko how you can just do it on some notes
juankristal
I dont think it is like super important so it will likely end up being ignored (considering how much stuff is going on when it comes to new stuff, website and blabla).

It can be done? Yeah, maybe... I would like to see some examples about why this should be implemented, concrete ones like in a particular map or a particular something. Otherwise I dont see this idea working
diraimur
check this out

diraimur wrote:

We could have 2b gamemode seperated from STD if people are affraid that it would ruin STD mapping; just check this map for example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/147910
its very fun to play, however it has some bugs, if they were cleaned and we could implement it as whole another gamemode, it would be very fun to play in my opinion.
StephOsu
This sounds interesting at first but so far I had thought of these following problems. Do note that I will be comparing it to taiko's counterpart.
Firstly, I think that it's not really fair to give it a miss considering that mappers will be using this note to emphasize a beat in the song and having it to miss after successfully single tapping it kinda defeats the purpose of using this note
This brings us to the next few questions (unless you can convince me and/or some of the people here the reason missing that note through single tapping is fair). What would happen if you only manage to tap one instead of 2 keys? Do you get something similar to a slider break? Or do you get only 100 and keep the combo count after single tapping that note? If you are keeping the combo count, how would you determine the accuracy of it if you single tap it?
The way this note works in taiko is to have a standard score as a single tap note if you single tap it, and doubles the score if you double tap it. But then, if you require both keys to be pressed to clear it, it will get extremely complicated.
If you do it identically with taiko's counterpart however, that almost defeats the purpose of this note as we can single tap and still get 100% accuracy out of that note anyways, unless we are talking about fighting for top score of the map which in case would make stuffs even more competitive for top 1 scores farmers. But then, if we were to implement this just for the top 1 scores farmers, we might as well remove the 477 spin limit.

Don't get me wrong. This note is interesting and it opens up a lot of new possibilities, patterns and stuffs, but IMO it's either too complicated to implement or serves no purpose compare to a singletap note
Andruchon
Terrible idea, please never implement this. If this gets implemented... then im gonna quit playing new osu maps. Probably 50% of the players will quit with me.

Why don't we have a special hit circle, where you have to draw pippy into! Or sliders, that have a text on them that you have to type while moving them! Or maybe microphone support! Where you have to sing to get better score! Maybe webcam support so you can dance while playing? Maybe spinners that... okay, sorry, i stop :(
Tshemmp
Wtf why would people want to quit if this gets implemented? Stop this over-dramafication please. It's not that revolutionary or different and additionally probably won't get used as often as how many people seem to think it will. Like, mappers will still map the way they want and you can still play the maps you want.

I myself find this idea very interesting and would like to try it in action.
Heuy
No, please no...
zenithlight
lol, bad mappers will make bad maps, and bad maps won't be ranked or played by people.

saying you will quit a game because a feature can "potentially" be used to make bad maps is like saying mappers shouldn't be allowed to turn off distance snap, because you can make badly spaced patterns...
Andruchon
I would love to see some "features" removed, so mappers don't even get the chance to implement them. Gameplay fluency > Mapper creativity. If you like to press multiple buttons at once... then play Taiko. Because when i play osu!, i have no time to watch for "double hit circles", especially on >=9AR. That being said, peppy won't ever implement this. And you should save your stars for more realistic features.
StephOsu
Gameplay fluency > mapper creativity smh
it's mapper's responsibility to make sure that their map has gameplay fluency unless we are talking about shit meme maps like this or this which was never meant to be playable anyways.
Mapper's creativity is the one that cause gameplay fluency in this community-driven game, not the other way around
also, as what zenithlight said,

zenithlight wrote:

lol, bad mappers will make bad maps, and bad maps won't be ranked or played by people.

saying you will quit a game because a feature can "potentially" be used to make bad maps is like saying mappers shouldn't be allowed to turn off distance snap, because you can make badly spaced patterns...
even if you remove everything but the original circle, there will still be shits maps around that has no fluency on gameplay whatsoever because bad mappers always exist
Rilene
This will not break streams, of course there is gonna be a rule of not using double-click notes into 1/4 (BPM Dependent) and such.
This will not entirely change everyone's mapping style.
This will not entirely make the game unplayable, if we stream 1/4 alternatively and why not tap 1/2 alternatively?
This will not need a new gamemode and in fact, why do we need a new gamemode which is same as standard mode but just except double-click notes?

So... Why not add this? This will be fun and nice if used correctly.
Topic Starter
jesse1412

StephOsu wrote:

This sounds interesting at first but so far I had thought of these following problems. Do note that I will be comparing it to taiko's counterpart.
Firstly, I think that it's not really fair to give it a miss considering that mappers will be using this note to emphasize a beat in the song and having it to miss after successfully single tapping it kinda defeats the purpose of using this note
This brings us to the next few questions (unless you can convince me and/or some of the people here the reason missing that note through single tapping is fair). What would happen if you only manage to tap one instead of 2 keys? Do you get something similar to a slider break? Or do you get only 100 and keep the combo count after single tapping that note? If you are keeping the combo count, how would you determine the accuracy of it if you single tap it?
The way this note works in taiko is to have a standard score as a single tap note if you single tap it, and doubles the score if you double tap it. But then, if you require both keys to be pressed to clear it, it will get extremely complicated.
If you do it identically with taiko's counterpart however, that almost defeats the purpose of this note as we can single tap and still get 100% accuracy out of that note anyways, unless we are talking about fighting for top score of the map which in case would make stuffs even more competitive for top 1 scores farmers. But then, if we were to implement this just for the top 1 scores farmers, we might as well remove the 477 spin limit.

Don't get me wrong. This note is interesting and it opens up a lot of new possibilities, patterns and stuffs, but IMO it's either too complicated to implement or serves no purpose compare to a singletap note
Personally I would want these to be a combo break if you 1key them. I don't feel like there would be any reason to use them if everyone will just 1key them. Not many people actually care about fighting for a few extra thousand points on maps anymore besides people who farm easy/normal #1 ranks. This is definitely something that needs more thought though.

Andruchon wrote:

Terrible idea, please never implement this. If this gets implemented... then im gonna quit playing new osu maps. Probably 50% of the players will quit with me.

Why don't we have a special hit circle, where you have to draw pippy into! Or sliders, that have a text on them that you have to type while moving them! Or maybe microphone support! Where you have to sing to get better score! Maybe webcam support so you can dance while playing? Maybe spinners that... okay, sorry, i stop :(
I can assure you people won't quit over a new feature being made available to mappers. Most mappers probably won't use these notes for a while, even rarer in ranked maps. If the use of new things is so completely shattering to you then why don't you just quit already considering the fact that mappers can put notes under sliders? If you're going to quit over shitty unranked maps then you should be loooong gone. People actively seek out maps which use interesting 2b mechanics because it's a breath of fresh air, I'm not aware of many (any) people who outright hate 2b maps that are able to play them.

I'm not even going to reply to your straw man argument at the end because it hurts my soul to read.

Andruchon wrote:

I would love to see some "features" removed, so mappers don't even get the chance to implement them. Gameplay fluency > Mapper creativity. If you like to press multiple buttons at once... then play Taiko. Because when i play osu!, i have no time to watch for "double hit circles", especially on >=9AR. That being said, peppy won't ever implement this. And you should save your stars for more realistic features.
You objectively have a very unpopular opinion. To put it bluntly, your opinion is quite shit. Restricting what mappers can do might make the worst maps slightly better but it also lifts the ceiling of how fun good maps can be. You wouldn't play the shittiest maps anyway so who really cares, you're giving mappers a tool to use, it'll be refreshing whilst also barely deviating from current gameplay at all (it'll probably take people one play count to figure these notes out).
Ashton
I have no idea if this is done or not but here's a few things, another osu toutorial will have to be made AND what hitsound would it make upon hitting it? What will it look like in gameplay? I think in fast songs it would be too hard to recognise a 'double tap' note, streams are hard enough we don't need your shitty idea




I still love you!
StephOsu

Whirl wrote:

I have no idea if this is done or not but here's a few things, another osu toutorial will have to be made AND what hitsound would it make upon hitting it? What will it look like in gameplay? I think in fast songs it would be too hard to recognise a 'double tap' note, streams are hard enough we don't need your shitty idea
if you notice this note are most likely not meant to be in the stream unless some mapper manage to fit them into streams without making them shit
as for recognizing problem, giving different visual should fix the problem (and no, bigger circles is not the solution)
lastly, if you even map, you will realize that hitsounding is not a problem because every circles, sliders, and spinner can have different hit sounds

jesse1412 wrote:

Personally I would want these to be a combo break if you 1key them. I don't feel like there would be any reason to use them if everyone will just 1key them. Not many people actually care about fighting for a few extra thousand points on maps anymore besides people who farm easy/normal #1 ranks. This is definitely something that needs more thought though.
true
there's still ways to combo break without granting a miss though *cough*sliderbreak*cough*
that's probably the best treatment for 1keying them
but then considering that there's score V2 that is affecting the slider accuracies, things are still going to be complicated I guess
Rilene

Whirl wrote:

I have no idea if this is done or not but here's a few things, another osu toutorial will have to be made AND what hitsound would it make upon hitting it? What will it look like in gameplay? I think in fast songs it would be too hard to recognise a 'double tap' note, streams are hard enough we don't need your shitty idea
They will make a new osu tutorial when the osu!next is released anyway.
About hitsounds, it depends how mapper hitsounds the note.
The visual representation, at least that will be considered by the game developers, anyways I'm pretty sure if this gets considered, they are going to make it fairly easy to differnate between such notes.
Fast songs, well... I guess there is going to be a obvious pattern changes for it, most is not gonna map it awkwardly.
And for the streams, I'm pretty sure this is not supposed to be used with those streams, they are mostly used to represent strong sounds, just like how Taiko finish notes work, they require 1/4 gap forwardly and backwardly and that may possibly apply to the double-click notes as well.
Ashton
here are a few reasons that I think this shouldn't be added

1) When mapping how would mappers implement the double tap? Can mappers just throw it in like a normal hitcircle? Or does it have to be a point in the song where the volume rises?
2)if there is a rule about placing the note (like you have to wait a beat before placing it and then wait another beat before placing a normal note) than wouldn't the double hit note be only used in easy and normal maybe hards and rarely ever insanes because in insane when mapping you usually can't skip over two beats (unless it's the slow part)
3)what if I clicked the note with one of my keyboard keys and one of my mouse buttons? Would it still count as a double click?
4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeLoYLQco2c this guy would be pissed if he still played osu lol
5) I don't think you understand how much people actually like, and hate this so I would suggest making another forum for a vote (or make a poll) and then see how much people like this feature, if more people say no than just forget about it but if more people say yes than maybe keep on trying to implement this into the game
6) I can see people cheating the system if they bind both keys too number one, (if you do then the game will think your clicking both keys at the same time even if your singletapping)
ANYWAYS if someone answers all my questions than I might reconsider


but for now on this idea is shit and it's horrible jesse you should die in a hole your a piece of shit



I love you!
StephOsu

Whirl wrote:

here are a few reasons that I think this shouldn't be added

1) When mapping how would mappers implement the double tap? Can mappers just throw it in like a normal hitcircle? Or does it have to be a point in the song where the volume rises?
2)if there is a rule about placing the note (like you have to wait a beat before placing it and then wait another beat before placing a normal note) than wouldn't the double hit note be only used in easy and normal maybe hards and rarely ever insanes because in insane when mapping you usually can't skip over two beats (unless it's the slow part)
3)what if I clicked the note with one of my keyboard keys and one of my mouse buttons? Would it still count as a double click?
4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeLoYLQco2c this guy would be pissed if he still played osu lol
5) I don't think you understand how much people actually like, and hate this so I would suggest making another forum for a vote (or make a poll) and then see how much people like this feature, if more people say no than just forget about it but if more people say yes than maybe keep on trying to implement this into the game
6) I can see people cheating the system if they bind both keys too number one, (if you do then the game will think your clicking both keys at the same time even if your singletapping)
1) They can just throw it in like a normal hitcircle, but it is encouraged (in fact, meant) to be used on a certain beat that the mapper wants to emphasize
2) There will probably some rules that will be implemented for those notes to be ranked (sort of like the rules of overlapping sliders and stuffs) and even if that rule you stated is the rule, I still see a lot of use on difficulties beyond 4* since you don't map single taps with 1/4 at all
3)

jesse1412 wrote:

You can use keyboard and touchscreen, it's suck a small demographic it shouldn't matter anyway. It will always take pressing 2 alternate keys (z,x or m1,x or m1,m2 or z,m2).

Normal regular notes won't even be changed by this so no, it wouldn't make streams retarded.
4) is that even a question?
5) again, is that even a question?
6) that sounds pretty stupid considering that you don't have to spam it faster than 1/2 beats. Also, if you bind to any of your main tapping keys(Z+X, M1+X, tap+x, etc) it will screw your burst/stream tapping, and binding it to non-main tapping keys(anything aside from your main 2 keys used on tapping) is actually more of a downside than upside considering that you have 1 more key that requires you to dedicate your focus on only 1 type of note which is pretty distracting. Might as well just use the 2 keys that had your focus on to tap instead of using the 3rd key
Topic Starter
jesse1412
People are arguing about the ranking rules for these notes. I don't see why the ranking criteria guidelines should be an issue that prevents implementation, they can still be used in unranked maps before a ranking criteria has been announced. They can be unrankable for as long as needed, it's hard to create criteria before we can test them in actual maps.

Whirl wrote:

I have no idea if this is done or not but here's a few things, another osu toutorial will have to be made AND what hitsound would it make upon hitting it? What will it look like in gameplay? I think in fast songs it would be too hard to recognise a 'double tap' note, streams are hard enough we don't need your shitty idea

If it's "too hard to recognize" maybe you're just not good enough for that map? Of course they'll be made so that they're easy the spot.
Ashton
Okay you answered my questions so I reconsidered

it's still a dumb idea

standard has been the same for MANY years, jesse1412 I don't think this is going to happen



I already KNOW it's not going to be implemented in the game because
A.too many people dislike it. thats all


peppy (or other osu designers I don't know) aren't going to change something in osu that too many people don't like




to prove me wrong AND too finish this forum i'd like too see a poll, 'do you like this idea, yes or no' and if more people say no it's done. No more trying to convince people or anything


if more people say yes then keep trying to implement this in the game


Stefan wrote:

osu! works perfectly this way since eight years.
I agree!

Zafufu wrote:

If you're saying the current form of gameplay is dead, then people wouldn't still be playing STD. And it's more about the targets than what keys you're supposed to press. The only way I think these notes should be added is in an optional mod, if at all.

Personally, I also feel t/427593 would be a more effective way to increase the key count at will.
I also agree

Bara- wrote:

Please no
this doesn't sound fun at all imo

it doesn't sound fun in any way, I agree 100%

Endaris wrote:

Why a gameobject. You could just stack 2 circles on each other at the same time.
And even then your idea is lacking in descriptiveness. Like what visual indicator is such a note supposed to have etc.etc.

You might just request fixing notelock instead.
so tru

Axon wrote:

You forget the fact that there are Mouse-only and touchscreen players. This doesn't even sound fun to play with, especially if you are a touchscreen player.
I agree, there's no possible way mouse only player would enjoy having to click both of their buttons at the same time
diraimur
you don't have to do separate posts for every reply btw
Ashton

diraimur wrote:

you don't have to do separate posts for every reply btw
oh k
Riari
There are around ~5,000 RANKED beatmaps right now.

Not counting the larger number of maps that aren't ranked but are still playable, if this request is not for you there is still content and will forever be content for you to play.
If it is added, it's not a requirement to put it in your beatmap.
If it is added, it's not required to play any beatmaps with it in.

Arguing that osu! has been fine for all these years without it makes no sense, just because the game functions well doesn't mean you can't make it function better.

Also, FR seems to have been confused with OT because the number of shitposts here is actually scary.
StephOsu

Riari wrote:

There are around ~5,000 RANKED beatmaps right now.

Not counting the larger number of maps that aren't ranked but are still playable, if this request is not for you there is still content and will forever be content for you to play.
If it is added, it's not a requirement to put it in your beatmap.
If it is added, it's not required to play any beatmaps with it in.

Arguing that osu! has been fine for all these years without it makes no sense, just because the game functions well doesn't mean you can't make it function better.

Also, FR seems to have been confused with OT because the number of shitposts here is actually scary.
yeah there was so many shitpost in this thread that I thought that I am in G&R
but tbh though jesse didn't put much information about the note other that only requiring 2 keys to be pressed to clear and that had caused a lot of misunderstanding which I don't really get how they end up misunderstanding that bad tbh
I still stand on my view of this note though. Interesting to add in, but too complex for accuracy check in score v2 which can cause it to be hard to implement
MBomb
My main concern comes (as someone who plays every mode except standard) from how this would convert. Whilst it's not exactly a top priority or anything most likely, it's still important in my opinion. In CtB, I assume it would just act as if there were 2 fruits stacked on top of each other, but Taiko and Mania, I'm not sure how it would work.
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