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posted

sdafsf wrote:

i dont understand much about hitsounding but while this is disqualified i have concerns with the emphesis on the streams.

in some parts you accentuate beats by placing them on the turn of the stream like:
04:09:424 (1) - , 04:33:424 (1) - , 04:38:224 (1) - , 04:48:124 (1) -
04:09:424 (1) - emmm... I think it's ok. because of the shortening of the spacing 04:09:424 (1,2,3,4) -
04:33:424 (1) - About here. I can understand the idea at the time. The turning point in the white of the drums. 04:33:124 (13,14,15,16) - But you reminded me. I should slow down here .like 04:37:924 (13,14,15,16) -
04:38:224 (1) - Emmm... I may know why you have any doubts about these places . 04:38:224 - This place is a drum sound and coincides with the long sound of the human voice .when sufficient conditions are supported, this rotation gives the player an accelerated sense of power .Also, the deceleration ahead is enough to allow the player to adapt to this segment .
04:48:124 (1) - same
About the angle of the corner, I don't think it's necessary to adjust the angle to the same, because the only thing you need is to let the player feel the effect. Most of the same angle doesn't make sense

but in some parts you place the beat before the accentuated beat on the turn of the stream like:
03:43:024 (1) - , 03:43:624 (9) - 03:44:224 (1) - , 03:57:424 (1) - , etc.
on.I changed it here in the mod above

these are just some examples the it is incosistent throughout the whole map.

also i dont know why this is accentuated 03:42:274 (7) - .
03:42:424 (9) - this should be instead.
same

maybe im misunderstanding your structure. im interested in an explanation.
I don't follow a fixed pendulum. It makes the map very boring, but I fix a rhythm at each section .same to stream. in my opinion, a lot of stream can do it in different ways .but this can become inconsistent in some people's eyes .This is not a kind of targeted speech. I mean. Everyone has different opinions .But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .


zigizigiefe wrote:

I would want to point out a consistency issue

00:45:874 (11) - You forgot to add clap sound as you did for 01:36:874 (1) - or 04:29:674 (1) - or other parts where Marc says "zone", so it doesn't emphasize "zone".
on.sorry .It was a mistake. I corrected it > <
posted

Okorin wrote:

so why do you halve bpm on spinners to then immediately double it again?

i mean if you halve it it shoulda stayed halved until like 02:41:824 -
but even that doesnt seem necessary

There are some differences. I think I need to change the BPM to 100. BPM is now modified to be provided by Raiden


03:55:324 (1,2,3,4) - this is 1/3??

fix

those hihats that you use as a hitnormal are so much louder than everything else >_<

fix


taking this down to further discuss the things that were mentioned properly because a lot of the things that you just said "no" to were actually not hostile
I picked up some of the items that need to be modified and put it on the separate Post above
well.I think it needs modification. It's done
posted
there is an Edit button on your post, please do not post each single reply in a new post
posted

09kami wrote:

I don't follow a fixed pendulum. It makes the map very boring, but I fix a rhythm at each section .same to stream. in my opinion, a lot of stream can do it in different ways .but this can become inconsistent in some people's eyes .This is not a kind of targeted speech. I mean. Everyone has different opinions .But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .
so your point is basically consistency is boring and uncreative?
i disagree with that in the first place but i dont think having the emphesis points in your stream off by one object makes your map any more interesting as it is.
consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive
posted

sdafsf wrote:

consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive
This is a concept that the East has struggled with for nearly a decade. Trying to explain to them that "just because you're getting bored as a mapper doesn't mean the player is getting bored" is a waste of time.

09kami wrote:

But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .
HW himself was extremely consistent. Like, wow, his maps are absurdly consistent and predictable. They're just crazy creative and interpretive. But misunderstanding creativity to mean "making up random stuff" is such a cute thing to do. It's literally what makes most newbie maps so adorably awful.

But practice makes perfect.
posted
why is the mp3 so bad lol
posted

sdafsf wrote:

09kami wrote:

I don't follow a fixed pendulum. It makes the map very boring, but I fix a rhythm at each section .same to stream. in my opinion, a lot of stream can do it in different ways .but this can become inconsistent in some people's eyes .This is not a kind of targeted speech. I mean. Everyone has different opinions .But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .
so your point is basically consistency is boring and uncreative?
i disagree with that in the first place but i dont think having the emphesis points in your stream off by one object makes your map any more interesting as it is.
consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive
no.I think we have some misunderstandings .I agree consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive. but this is a broad concept . 04:33:124 (13,14,15,16) -Like this paragraph. You reminded me. I found the difference, So I modified it in order to keep consistency .But what I want to say is consistency. It doesn't just mean a place .emmm....I think it should be better to show you an example (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1011818). If you would like to see this example, please note 00:02:176 (1) - - through 00:41:528 (4) - .It's a very boring tempo, because there's only one monotonic beat .If you stay consistent here, it can become very boring, so when you just pay attention to these two sounds, your mind becomes very narrow .and break through this cage. That's what I want to say .But it's a tough thing because it takes time and again to test the correctness of the tempo .balance . so consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive. But blind consistency does limit your thinking. creativity


Shiirn wrote:

HW himself was extremely consistent. Like, wow, his maps are absurdly consistent and predictable. They're just crazy creative and interpretive. But misunderstanding creativity to mean "making up random stuff" is such a cute thing to do. It's literally what makes most newbie maps so adorably awful.

But practice makes perfect.
In fact, this is forced.She told me that if you want to break the limit from your point of view, a perfect map state must be guaranteed .I don't think I can do it yet. It's a great thing


pkhg wrote:

why is the mp3 so bad lol
emmmmm....Just compressed

hummm...I'm more inclined to test players on the mod issue .I've got a lot of top players to test this map.So it's the problem of difficulties. I set them up as a standard
posted
Don't use HW as an excuse if you're doing the exact opposite of what he/she does, hahahaha.
posted
So this is mapping has become, people complaining about every single object that the mapper has placed, even going disrespecfull and expect to someone listen him...


^We reached this point ? Someone needs to call respect ?



09kami, even if your map ends on the graveyard its going to be a great one.
posted
Did i see someone mentioning "HW" here ?
Before this goes for qualified section could you look at these following points ? :3

  1. I know people already mentioned it, but could you improve your map visually ? This does not really impact the gameplay a lot, but it doesn't make eyes bleeding. Small details can make your map a lot of times better visually, trust me.
    Some streams are really weird-shaped and not really polished like

    - 00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - when you can make something better shaped :


    - 03:41:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) -


    - 04:45:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - : you just have to move 04:46:024 (11) - a little on the left for a perfect shape.

  2. This could be considered as a rhythm choice issue : 01:19:174 (2) - when you start the slider on the red tick (so this very important tick 01:19:324 (3) - is only followed and not played (and it should be played)) but you do the "right" thing 01:21:424 (1,2) - , so is there any reason ? Variating patterns is not really a good idea if you don't really emphasize the right notes, this current example is the perfect example of what you should not do if you want to vary patterns. If you want to keep variating, then keep emphasizing the "right" (by "right" i mean strongest/most important) notes. So you should make this tick 01:19:324 - clicked
  3. 02:45:499 (2) - There is definitely nothing audible on this blue tick, why do you follow it ? (even the guitar isn't snapped on it)


No kd.
posted

Shiirn wrote:

Don't use HW as an excuse if you're doing the exact opposite of what he/she does, hahahaha.
do you really need to involve your ego? ew

09kami take my star as a sign of my appreciation for this masterpiece
posted

Neptune wrote:

09kami take my star as a sign of my appreciation for this masterpiece
:) thx


Cherry Blossom wrote:

Did i see someone mentioning "HW" here ?
Before this goes for qualified section could you look at these following points ? :3

  1. I know people already mentioned it, but could you improve your map visually ? This does not really impact the gameplay a lot, but it doesn't make eyes bleeding. Small details can make your map a lot of times better visually, trust me.
    Some streams are really weird-shaped and not really polished like

    - 00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - when you can make something better shaped :

    fix

    - 03:41:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) -

    It's a strange suggestion. I don't think they have to be round .the ellipse is actually a spin. u mentioned the "polished". A detail is ignored. that's the AR. of this picture. when you're at test or playauto, you'll see. they don't look like edit .It's just a turn .but the difference between an ellipse and a circle is that the speed of rotation is different. what mapper and player see is different .that's why I've been looking for someone to test the map. Some places I need to look at them from their perspective .But on this question, I choose to respect your opinion, because I always think you are a great mapper. So I reworked the place. I modified some ellipses for the circle .so I reworked the place

    - 04:45:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - : you just have to move 04:46:024 (11) - a little on the left for a perfect shape.
    emmm.....According to your idea, I just need to change the position of 04:44:824 (1,2) - . 04:45:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - Some subtle spins

  2. This could be considered as a rhythm choice issue : 01:19:174 (2) - when you start the slider on the red tick (so this very important tick 01:19:324 (3) - is only followed and not played (and it should be played)) but you do the "right" thing 01:21:424 (1,2) - , so is there any reason ? Variating patterns is not really a good idea if you don't really emphasize the right notes, this current example is the perfect example of what you should not do if you want to vary patterns. If you want to keep variating, then keep emphasizing the "right" (by "right" i mean strongest/most important) notes. So you should make this tick 01:19:324 - clicked
    fix.I agree with that, but it's very difficult to grasp the most important sound when it comes to the switch between voice and accompaniment .Some people will say, "why do you follow the two? It's confusing! "but balance the vocals and the accompaniment to complete a map. You know, when it's done, it'll be very cool. remove not adapted things .complete this mapping. that's what I'm doing
  3. 02:45:499 (2) - There is definitely nothing audible on this blue tick, why do you follow it ? (even the guitar isn't snapped on it)
    02:45:499 - There is an extension of the guitar here .02:45:424 - 02:45:949 - In fact, I believe it is a complete guitar sound because it has no sense of pause .02:46:024 (1) - But starting here, the change can be clearly distinguished .02:45:424 (1) - I'll change it here to 1/4 slider.maybe it will make you accept it .


No kd.
I believe in "Mod" like this. It's easier for us to communicate . :)
posted
small thing

04:17:824 (1,1) - how about end those sliders on red ticks ( 04:18:274 and 04:18:874 .) , because it more feet the music. And make them more wiggly?

0w^
posted

xDololow wrote:

small thing

04:17:824 (1,1) - how about end those sliders on red ticks ( 04:18:274 and 04:18:874 .) , because it more feet the music. And make them more wiggly?
hummm...fix to 04:18:274 - because there's a change in the guitar sounds here .but 04:18:874 - not added. If choose the weaker drums here .will conflict with 04:18:424 (1) .

0w^
posted
Please note that a lot of the issues that people have with this map are not due to you making "mistakes while mapping".

It's because the mapping quality is extremely low.

You are not paying attention to the music's level of intensity or where the music gets stronger or weaker, nor are you using the vocals at all.

As an example, 00:58:324 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is an pattern. It's not a bad one, nor is it a good one. But it uses the previous notes and goes under them. But the music doesn't do anything to suggest that. The music does not repeat in any way. This isn't a matter of "creativity" or "my style", it's just straight up ignoring the music in favor of putting a "pattern you think looks cool". This is your entire map.

Your entire map is "patterns you think look cool", not "patterns which fit the musical structure".

You have made a map with no soul. It is just taking music and turning it into a one-dimensional set of clicks with plain, simple patterns representing it.

That's rankable. But it's a horrible way to map. And accepting it just lowers the quality of mapping as a whole. And it's why monstrata's cookie map is an insult to everyone who has any respect for music or this game. Because it's rankable, but intentionally lacking anything resembling mapping.
That said, your map is "rankable", but if you're satisfied with ranking but being bad, that's your choice. You'll just end up being another soulfear - a forgotten relic only remembered by a few for "how badly they mapped for how hard they tried".
posted

MaestroSplinter wrote:

So this is mapping has become, people complaining about every single object that the mapper has placed, even going disrespecfull and expect to someone listen him...


^We reached this point ? Someone needs to call respect ?
Discourse is not disrespect, and if anyone can't handle this level of discourse, they probably shouldn't be putting their own work out into a community that is centered almost entirely around the judging of said work. I'd even go so far as to say that avoiding providing any sort of thoughtful criticism in a map that you see needs work is far more disrespectful, and even patronizing. At the end of the day, the goal isn't to be disrespectful to 09kami, it's to make the map better before it's brought into the ranked section, a section of "finalized works."

01:16:774 (5) - I opened the map and saw this - you should add a hitwhistle here! The sound in the song is almost entirely consistent with 01:16:174 (1,2,3,4) - but the lack of a hitsound + the difference in spacing makes it look and feel more like an entirely different beat.

As for consistency, the map is highly inconsistent, but I haven't seen any real reason provided for it. For example, look at the 2 measures starting at 01:17:824 - vs the 2 measures starting immediately after them at 01:20:224 - the rhythm changes completely in the middle of it. Major rhythmic inconsistencies like these are evident throughout the map.
Beyond that, what's with your streams? For example, check out 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - it's quite obviously hand-placed, but the curve is extremely rough and abrasive looking. Do you have a reason not to use more consistent curves in your streams?
After that, why emphasize 01:36:874 (1) - instead of 01:37:024 (3) - ? Sure, the word "zone" starts at 01:36:874 (1) - but it's obvious to anyone listening that the most intensely emphasized note here is at 01:37:024 (3) - .
Such emphasis and construction issues are present throughout the map.
posted

Mun wrote:

MaestroSplinter wrote:

So this is mapping has become, people complaining about every single object that the mapper has placed, even going disrespecfull and expect to someone listen him...


^We reached this point ? Someone needs to call respect ?
Discourse is not disrespect, and if anyone can't handle this level of discourse, they probably shouldn't be putting their own work out into a community that is centered almost entirely around the judging of said work. I'd even go so far as to say that avoiding providing any sort of thoughtful criticism in a map that you see needs work is far more disrespectful, and even patronizing. At the end of the day, the goal isn't to be disrespectful to 09kami, it's to make the map better before it's brought into the ranked section, a section of "finalized works."

But you need to know about "mod". It's about map communication .the premise of communication is that it can be discussed with mapper .when language is offensive, this is no respect. would u casually greet a stranger with offensive words on the street? at least I won't . for instance.when your map is Qualified, I'll use Chinese to "mod"(and based on the fact that I understand the need to use English.) .but my "mod" is based on maps .what would you think? think this is a mod or a provocation? at least for fieryrage's speech. I think it's the same effect . u can see my response to other people. I believe everyone has answered them in detail .that's what I call a kind of respect .At least I think that "mod" must be based on communication, and that exchanges are based on the most basic equal dialogue
edit : If you don't respect me, why do I need my map to respect what you call "mod"?" yes, you can say. You don't need to respect "mod". You just need to change it .So why should I change it? Can you make sure that what you mentioned is correct? You answered, "yes, because I found these mistakes! " Since I don't respect your mod, why should I take notice of your findings? I just want to say "no". mapper is not a machine. It's not when you type an error that you change it .the path to a map entering ranked is through mapper. at least I won't accept rude "mod". about maps. In my eyes, it's a formal occasion .

01:16:774 (5) - I opened the map and saw this - you should add a hitwhistle here! The sound in the song is almost entirely consistent with 01:16:174 (1,2,3,4) - but the lack of a hitsound + the difference in spacing makes it look and feel more like an entirely different beat. fix

As for consistency, the map is highly inconsistent, but I haven't seen any real reason provided for it. For example, look at the 2 measures starting at 01:17:824 - vs the 2 measures starting immediately after them at 01:20:224 - the rhythm changes completely in the middle of it. Major rhythmic inconsistencies like these are evident throughout the map.
About consistency .I don't even have to open the map to know what you're trying to say...consistency is not a necessary thing. It's just a condition. a mapping. This map varies in two ways based on voice and accompaniment .when you think you need to maintain a high degree of consistency, it's different from this map, mapping's policy .but I don't mean there's no need for consistency .consistency is not a requirement. There is no need for a whole map to maintain a consistency. Some details, etc. I'll read the map tomorrow and explain
edit : It looks just like I guess .

Beyond that, what's with your streams? For example, check out 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - it's quite obviously hand-placed, but the curve is extremely rough and abrasive looking. Do you have a reason not to use more consistent curves in your streams?
all streams just hand-placed.Is there any doubt about that? Do you have a reason not to use more consistent curves in your streams
So why more consistent? what you mean is the need for bigger flow., simpler streams ?no. Streams does not have to meet all the needs of everyone .It's just because you think .In fact, does it make sense to adjust it to a perfect arc? This is just looking pretty pretty in edit. For this AR., some ugly angles can have a more intuitive effect on test .


After that, why emphasize 01:36:874 (1) - instead of 01:37:024 (3) - ? Sure, the word "zone" starts at 01:36:874 (1) - but it's obvious to anyone listening that the most intensely emphasized note here is at 01:37:024 (3) - .

So I think it's too much trouble to explain these things. I've explained the same thing in front of post .according to your idea, should even delete 01:36:949 (2) -.01:37:024 (3) - As a place to start .but isn't that the way you choose it? but it's obvious to anyone listening that the most intensely emphasized note here is at 01:37:024 (3) - . are you sure it's anyone? I don't agree with that .I think it's necessary to follow "ZONE".
Such emphasis and construction issues are present throughout the map.
It's a very subjective view. you're just looking at these problems in your own eyes .u impose your opinions on others. I don't think that's reasonable. Because you're talking about it. It's just a mapping approach . It's not the only one. It's not rigid
posted

Mun wrote:

MaestroSplinter wrote:

So this is mapping has become, people complaining about every single object that the mapper has placed, even going disrespecfull and expect to someone listen him...


^We reached this point ? Someone needs to call respect ?
Discourse is not disrespect, and if anyone can't handle this level of discourse, they probably shouldn't be putting their own work out into a community that is centered almost entirely around the judging of said work. I'd even go so far as to say that avoiding providing any sort of thoughtful criticism in a map that you see needs work is far more disrespectful, and even patronizing. At the end of the day, the goal isn't to be disrespectful to 09kami, it's to make the map better before it's brought into the ranked section, a section of "finalized works."

01:16:774 (5) - I opened the map and saw this - you should add a hitwhistle here! The sound in the song is almost entirely consistent with 01:16:174 (1,2,3,4) - but the lack of a hitsound + the difference in spacing makes it look and feel more like an entirely different beat.

As for consistency, the map is highly inconsistent, but I haven't seen any real reason provided for it. For example, look at the 2 measures starting at 01:17:824 - vs the 2 measures starting immediately after them at 01:20:224 - the rhythm changes completely in the middle of it. Major rhythmic inconsistencies like these are evident throughout the map.
Beyond that, what's with your streams? For example, check out 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - it's quite obviously hand-placed, but the curve is extremely rough and abrasive looking. Do you have a reason not to use more consistent curves in your streams?
After that, why emphasize 01:36:874 (1) - instead of 01:37:024 (3) - ? Sure, the word "zone" starts at 01:36:874 (1) - but it's obvious to anyone listening that the most intensely emphasized note here is at 01:37:024 (3) - .
Such emphasis and construction issues are present throughout the map.




ehm, sure. btw not making this a stupid debate how should someone take mod.. Have a good day :D
posted

Shiirn wrote:

Please note that a lot of the issues that people have with this map are not due to you making "mistakes while mapping".

It's because the mapping quality is extremely low.

You are not paying attention to the music's level of intensity or where the music gets stronger or weaker, nor are you using the vocals at all.

As an example, 00:58:324 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is an pattern. It's not a bad one, nor is it a good one. But it uses the previous notes and goes under them. But the music doesn't do anything to suggest that. The music does not repeat in any way. This isn't a matter of "creativity" or "my style", it's just straight up ignoring the music in favor of putting a "pattern you think looks cool". This is your entire map.

Your entire map is "patterns you think look cool", not "patterns which fit the musical structure".

You have made a map with no soul. It is just taking music and turning it into a one-dimensional set of clicks with plain, simple patterns representing it.

That's rankable. But it's a horrible way to map. And accepting it just lowers the quality of mapping as a whole. And it's why monstrata's cookie map is an insult to everyone who has any respect for music or this game. Because it's rankable, but intentionally lacking anything resembling mapping.
That said, your map is "rankable", but if you're satisfied with ranking but being bad, that's your choice. You'll just end up being another soulfear - a forgotten relic only remembered by a few for "how badly they mapped for how hard they tried".
All I'm reading here is a VERY subjective, rude, disrespectful and unjustified rant (or egotrip, if you will).

Why are you being this disrespectful towards 09kami anyway? Could it be your ignorance? I highly doubt it's the other way around.

You might have some mapping experience, but that doesn't give you the right to point out the above to anyone really. You personally have issues with the map while most of us here don't at all. You're personally attacking a great mapper here and even predicting his future reputation as a mapper because of what YOU think? You even confirm this is rankable, so the rest of your destructive speech was unneccesary and looks like an attempt to -1 09kami while +1ing yourself.

If you don't have anything nice to say, please refrain from commenting at all. The world doesn't revolve around you.
posted
If you want a community-based content creation system, you're going to have to deal with criticism, often harsh. Because very few people actually get good at something by getting nothing but praise. "Rankable" should be equated with "Mediocre" - because that's what ranking standards are meant to be, a minimum quality threshold for maps. Aiming to be mediocre, being satisfied with being mediocre, is something that needs to be pointed out in a "are you SURE you really want to be boring?" question.

If you want a game where everyone gets praised for doing their best, go play Hello Kitty World.
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