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posted
Just to clarify things...

With hard rock enabled, any diff with OD8 and HP8 will be adjusted to OD10 and HP10, which is easily done, despite with a huge accuracy drop from players. The HR gives score boost that isn't quiet necessary. Reduce the score multiplier to 1.05 would be just fine.

I also consider to rank the random mod if enabled with HR, as it will be much more harder than before, if RD and HR combined, it will be 1.10 with completely random notes on each tick.
posted
hey guys i know it's a weird request but can someone make sure that this never becomes anything more than a tournament score?
posted

O2MasterFX wrote:

Just to clarify things...

With hard rock enabled, any diff with OD8 and HP8 will be adjusted to OD10 and HP10, which is easily done, despite with a huge accuracy drop from players. The HR gives score boost that isn't quiet necessary. Reduce the score multiplier to 1.05 would be just fine.
That is only half of the story, HR also makes timing windows tighter than OD10's by a decent about:

This is OD 10 nomod


This is OD 10 with HR
posted

-Kamikaze- wrote:

... HR also makes timing windows tighter than OD10's by a decent about: ...
EZ/HR multiplies/divides the timing windows by exactly 1.4. The UI has a weird method of rounding everything to 0.5ms, but even when assuming the numbers shown by the UI are correct you're left with an insignificant margin of error.
posted
just my random input, consider that hp7 hr is hp 9.8 which is easy enough to die on during tournament finals and stuff, for the high risk i would at least go higher then 1.1 or make it scale somewhat with difficulty but idk how you would do that
posted
w
posted
Last try at this.

Currently accuracy does make a good metric of how hard the map is. I can tell you straight up what the star rating of a map would be according to my accuracy. I feel the score should reflect that. However, there is a point, around between 986k and 1M scores, where it is more of a matter of consistency. Playing a score for 990K+ often feels like playing standard. A lot of retries and a lot of hope for more MAX. If anything, I think that's where you should focus combo based scoring at (if you are persistent about it).

Instead of the combo portion being dependent on misses, have it be dependent on not have a MAX and adjust so it is worth around 100k out of 1M or whatever most would agree on. That way players who are trying to get a better play have to worry about their overall performance by acc'ing the map like now, and players who are going for the SS and beyond would have to worry more about consistency.

Just don't have the element of luck forced on players unless they are really going for a perfect play. And I do say luck because consistency involves taking the probability that you may fuck up somewhere along the line.
posted
Gameplay: [smoogipooo] Fix osu!mania ScoreV2 LNs not correctly capping to 50 score when the hold starts after the LN start was fully missed.
Why not remove the ability to repress missed LN's? I've always thought it was weird that completely missing a LN gets punished, but missing it and, repressing it waaaaay too late and not releasing until seconds after the LN has ended somehow gives you points and pepe points.

Gameplay: [smoogipooo] Reduce osu!mania ScoreV2 FL multiplier to 1.06x (prev. 1.10x).
I still stand for FL giving 1.0x points, for reasons many people have pointed out already.
posted
I would like to look at the v2 when it comes to harder LN maps with HR. As a pretty decent LN player I tried some things out and I was astonished with the results. On the screenshot below you can see that I had a pretty good acc and nice score. However I FAILED IN THE MIDDLE because LN releases on hr are so incredibly tight that you get a miss on what would have been 200 (or even 300) on v1 nomod. This is so hilarious when you hokd a good acc then the denser sections come and you fail so easily because of high HP on HR. All but 1-2 of the misses were because of stupid release windows. Despite my efforts to release as precisely as I can, I still died. The release windows on HR should be more lenient, especially when it comes to window for miss. I practically have not received other release judgments than MAX, 300, 200 or miss.

My suggestion: either increase the miss window for releases (with making the 100/50 windows wider as well), or change all of the misses to 50s which will prevent failing the map so easily.

posted
btw as we discovered today while we had a friendly Poland vs Argentina match on score v2 the maxes are disgustingly underrated for some reason.
I mean take a look at this:


Poland won despite with 6 less 200s overall while having 220 maxes less, and by over 5k points to top it off which is just ridiculous.
Also if you take a look at Juan's and Hudonom's scores: Hudonom got a score 18 points better than juan despite having 98 less maxes just because he had one less 200. That is really not okay.

There were other cases where scores were ridiculously close for no good reason:



Grubonom vs Juan vs aluu, I know that Grubonom missed right at the end but still

MAX'es really should be weighted much more that they are now.

mp link for this match: https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/26530910
posted
That sounds impossible. Are you sure everyone was actually using Stable (latest) / Beta / CE?
posted
Right now, percentage is the only number that factors into the Accuracy calculation,, so there's no differentiation between 300g/300. Therefore, there is only a very tiny portion of the score actually affected by the difference (mainly the combo).

Actually, when looking at the code, I'm not even sure that is true right now, though that's probably not intended. I'm a dumbass I found it.

Also as a minor side note: Maybe consider starting the combo counter at max combo? (if possible). That way, it doesn't diminish the weighting of the first 400 notes of the map.
posted

Ciel wrote:

Right now, percentage is the only number that factors into the Accuracy calculation,, so there's no differentiation between 300g/300. Therefore, there is only a very tiny portion of the score actually affected by the difference (mainly the combo).
This is correct - 320s are very much underweighted because the only component of the scoring system that takes into account 320 accuracy is the combo component, which only has a 20% prominence. Add on to the fact that the difference between a 300 and 320 is so small and that the absolute difference between juan and Hudo's 320 count isn't that significant, it would make sense that 320s are really underweighted at the moment.

You could mitigate this by including 300gs into accuracy, but from what I've experimented it might create too much emphasis on MAX accuracy with charts that players have issues getting 96%+ on (and as a result would not be an accurate assessment of skill). You can try having a weightage of 310 instead of 320 for accuracy instead, but it's up to you.

But by including the rainbow component into accuracy, I don't really see much purpose in having a combo component in the first place, but I'm not quite sure how to justify it and put it in words.

Alternatively, you can avoid including MAXes in the accuracy component and just increase the importance of MAXes to like 360 to increase the emphasis of it by a noticeable but not overpowering amount in the combo component, but that requires a bit more experimentation.

Also as a minor side note: Maybe consider starting the combo counter at max combo? (if possible). That way, it doesn't diminish the weighting of the first 400 notes of the map.
Also supporting this.

Also, emphasis on underjoy's post. He brings up a pretty good point about LNs, and it wouldn't make sense for him to have so many misses with a distribution like that. Here's a HRv1 and HRv2 comparison as well for another chart. Given the 50/100 windows of v1, it wouldn't make much sense for the miss count in v2 to be that high in the first place, unless there's some bug that scorev1 has with LNs.
posted

smoogipooo wrote:

That sounds impossible. Are you sure everyone was actually using Stable (latest) / Beta / CE?
Yes I am sure, look at freemod picks, everyone had multipliers on mods. Also on score v1 100 maxes more would edge out 1x200 less by about 3,5k on Ambitious.
You can also confirm that by looking at ideally same combos on FCs which is nearly impossible to do on v1.
We all agreed to play that match on score v2 so everyone was prepared for it
EDIT: Also since the timing windows for MAX scales with OD on v2, could you maybe give us a small table with how wide are they for major OD and HR?
posted
Make MAX worth 100% and 300 worth 99% 8-)8-)
posted

_underjoy wrote:

I would like to look at the v2 when it comes to harder LN maps with HR. As a pretty decent LN player I tried some things out and I was astonished with the results. On the screenshot below you can see that I had a pretty good acc and nice score. However I FAILED IN THE MIDDLE because LN releases on hr are so incredibly tight that you get a miss on what would have been 200 (or even 300) on v1 nomod. This is so hilarious when you hokd a good acc then the denser sections come and you fail so easily because of high HP on HR. All but 1-2 of the misses were because of stupid release windows. Despite my efforts to release as precisely as I can, I still died. The release windows on HR should be more lenient, especially when it comes to window for miss. I practically have not received other release judgments than MAX, 300, 200 or miss.

My suggestion: either increase the miss window for releases (with making the 100/50 windows wider as well), or change all of the misses to 50s which will prevent failing the map so easily.

HR was being added twice to the hit windows. I've pushed a fix (only on CE for now) that rectifies this and modifies all other timing windows sliiiiiightly so they align with MAXs a bit better by interpolating from OD0-OD5 and OD5-OD10 instead of linear scaling from OD0-10.

Please test again.
posted

I don't know what to say.
posted

Todestrieb wrote:


I don't know what to say.
With the current system not using HR after you reach some level of accuracy is a bad idea (unless the map has some part that would make you fail with HR, even with good overall accuracy). Additionally, the FL multiplier is more significant the closer the play is to a perfect play.
posted


lmao.
posted
There's another issue with the current proposal I don't think has been addressed in this thread. Bad judgements like 50s, 100s (and 200s to some extent) have significantly less impact on score compared to ScoreV1.

In ScoreV1, bonusscore is severely reduced by anything worse than a 300. Bonusscore accounted for 50% of your total score, so getting a ton of bad judgements is going to seriously impact your total score in ScoreV1. ScoreV2 replaces bonus score, which punishes bad judgements, with combo score, which only punishes misses. Mashing is a common complaint in osu!mania already, but this is going to get worse by rewarding players for keeping combo without taking bad judgements into account.

To give a slightly over the top example: scoring a 200 on every note in a song is going to give you an accuracy of 66.67% and a score of about ~335k. The score is really low because you barely get any bonus score. The same play would net you a somewhat respectable 733.3k in the current proposal. Add FL to this, and you get a score of 777.3k. In practice, it's going to be less extreme than this, but it's definitely present.

I don't think this is acceptable at all. Inaccurately mashing your way through hard parts of a song while keeping combo is going to give really good scores. Not just because of the combo score, but also because bad judgements give too much score.
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