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osu!mania ScoreV2 live!

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EYA-
Holla Holla pp is comming
Remyria

smoogipooo wrote:

You'll be please to know that there are no more hidden multipliers and rounding issues have been eradicated, but that is not all. Let's go through a list of changes in this initial version(congratulation for all the hateposts of people that didn't even read everything *facepalms*):

  1. Score is made up of 20% combo and 80% accuracy. If changes like shoegazer suggested are made, and the ridiculous losses on the tiniest error is fixed, I don't see any problem to adding some combo in the score value, but the score going down when you lose accuracy(losing score you already earned is lame (I don't like that system in the standard scorev2, and I don't like it here)
    1. We want to value the more accurate players (accuracy) whilst applying a small reward for consistency (combo). Not much to say to say, but 20% is not small
  2. LN starts and ends are now judged separately.
    1. Previously LNs considered a joint timing distribution between the start press and end release. This made it unclear as to whether you'd get a MAX after an LN end as you had to take into consideration the LN start. Judging separately should feel more natural, rewarding (as you get instant feedback), and a bit more challenging.
  3. LN ends are given a 1.5x lenience to the hit windows.
    1. LN starts were previously given up to 1.2x timing window lenience and LN ends were given up to 2.4x timing window lenience. This reduces the complexity of releasing an LN whilst you're focusing on pressing other notes.Hum...I don't have enough information to really give an opinion on these, I'd say it doesn't change much except being a bit harder, since it changes 2 hits for a grade(With the first hit being harder and release being easier) to 2 hits with 2 grades(that are equally difficult(which from what I read in the thread can be 2 misses(that both removes HP)))
  4. If an LN is broken but re-pressed, the LN end will not award more than 50 points.Nothing to say about it
    1. Works similar to the current system depending on when you release the hold, but is lenient enough to feel rewarding even for newer players (consider that ScoreV2 will be used as the normal ranking in the future).That's something to actually test with the "newer players"
  5. LNs do not give combo ticks any more - only one combo tick for the start and end notes. This makes way more sense
    1. Feels more natural rather than displaying a useless number.^
  6. Mods are back! NF/EZ/HT give 0.5x score multipliers and DT/HR/HD/FI/FL give 1.06x score multipliers.
NF/EZ/HT were already here with 0.5x score, DT was here but did nothing special(hopefully it's not as broken as before it was removed), HR was unranked(considered as useless by...uh...who added them in first place), and HD/FI/FL shouldn't give bonus(already been since a shitton of times)

We've had some internal discussions about how LNs should work, but have not reached a definitive conclusion as there are split opinions. We are eager to hear your feedback regarding osu!mania scoring and this new scoring system!You have mine ^^

I'll be adding here a list of changes I will consider. Please remember that we are fully intending to break the game with these changes. We will apply any changes necessary to make things work:
  1. Make DT adjust to 100%/110%/.../150% with score bonus increments of 0.05x (or something like that). Love this
  2. Increase the bonus of HR or decrease the tightness of the timing windows.Good luck with making HR good to add

Sakura Kyoko wrote:

Just throwing my opinion in here;

4. Score V2
Don't even get me started. So a song I previously had 992k on now gives me 900k, well okay then.
You LOSE points for poor accuracy. THAT is by far the worst idea I've seen in ages. Why would I lose points that I've gained for doing something well? Like, I'm already losing out on the points that I lose by having poor accuracy/misses. Why would I then lose points for stuff I had on 300S before? Dafuq is this?

It's like "yeah look, you had 10 of the 20 questions correct, but instead of giving you 50% of the points, we're giving you none, because fuck you!"

The new system ONLY benefits top-tier players, and even those will struggle to keep their scores where they currently are, except for accuracy-machines like Halogen-.
And the 200k for having a full combo, while only getting 25% of it for A SINGLE MISS OR COMBO BREAK is incredibly counter-intuitive aswell.
Imagine, 100% the entire song, great 300S-rate, boom, you miss the last note. Well good bye PP, because you just lost 150k for a single miss.
You didn't read through the thread(or you went too fast), you'd know that the 150K loss is if the miss is at the exact middle of the map's combo...Also it's only the first version...go ahead and try to make something perfect on your first try -.-

I think our current score system isn't even that bad and most people didn't complain about it either. Why would you change a running system? There are MUCH bigger problems that need to be fixed, like that incredibly inaccurate star-rating algorithm.
Tom94 just CAN'T work on it right now, and peppy has Osu!Next to focus on...also you're not asking the right person to work on star-rating. it's not because someone is a dev that he does everything in the game...and the current "running system" isn't flawless, smoogi wants to improve it with help of the community
Kivicat
Why no one think that SVs are unfair since they're hard to play for HD/FL players? Those guys meet some essential troubles that normal players may not even notice. They deserve a little reward, dont they?
Halogen-
SVs are not controlled by players. Maps are created with the intent of being played without modification -- content creators usually don't make SV maps with the thought "oh, this isn't the best for FL/HD/FI players" because they're playing with a visual modifier to aid their play. FL/HD/FI is a choice players make, but map structure is not a choice that players have control over. It is up to them to overcome the issues they have with SV maps.
Kivicat
In this case, to play without score multipliers is the choice that no-mod-players make. I don't see any problem. Playing with HD/FL is more difficult, not due to SVs only. It demands higher concentration, especially when you try to keep combo.
Halogen-

Kivicat wrote:

In this case, to play without score multipliers is the choice that no-mod-players make. I don't see any problem. Playing with HD/FL is more difficult, not due to SVs only. It demands higher concentration, especially when you try to keep combo.
You're not making sense. You're saying that "playing without score multipliers" is something that no mod players make - that's not the case at all. A no-mod player can go onto HD/FL at free will and choose whether or not they want to play that way in an effort to help them. It's pretty well established that high level mania players can and often will go on HD to alleviate the extreme densities found in high difficulty maps in an effort to mitigate the amount of information they have to process.

And well, here's what I think of your HD/FL point:


I can coherently play just about everything that I do off of HD on HD, with a marginal increase on 300 counts -- I am not by any means a hidden main, but it just kinda drives the point home that visual mods really hold no purpose as having score multipliers. Even those who are visual mod mains are saying the same thing too. When you have HD/FL native players indicating that the scoreboost shouldn't happen, it... probably means it shouldn't happen, lol

EDIT: I would be willing to bet that a lot of mania players have a focal point on screen that is relatively close to the hidden threshold at least at combo start and could probably adjust themselves on demand when needed. The challenge in HD truly is in the ability to handle SVs.
Hinpoppo

Kivicat wrote:

In this case, to play without score multipliers is the choice that no-mod-players make. I don't see any problem. Playing with HD/FL is more difficult, not due to SVs only. It demands higher concentration, especially when you try to keep combo.
By your logic, your skin and your scroll speed should count too. Some people play with too high of a scroll speed to do SVs right without memorizing them.
Endaris
You're not making sense. You're saying that "playing without score multipliers" is something that no mod players make - that's not the case at all. A no-mod player can go onto HD/FL at free will and choose whether or not they want to play that way in an effort to help them. It's pretty well established that high level mania players can and often will go on HD to alleviate the extreme densities found in high difficulty maps in an effort to mitigate the amount of information they have to process.
Maybe mania will get modspecific mappicks in future tournaments though?
juankristal
I still dont get why people is talking about PP in this thread... This is for scoreV2 only and its aiming for the MWC not to the pp system or the score system. For now it will be just for World Cups (afaik). We all do know that the PP formula or whatever is bad and that noone should really care about it (same thing for SR) so can we just leave that out of discus?

Related to what you say Apple:

Sakura Kyoko wrote:

4. Score V2
Don't even get me started. So a song I previously had 992k on now gives me 900k, well okay then.
You LOSE points for poor accuracy. THAT is by far the worst idea I've seen in ages. Why would I lose points that I've gained for doing something well? Like, I'm already losing out on the points that I lose by having poor accuracy/misses. Why would I then lose points for stuff I had on 300S before? Dafuq is this?

I dont know I understand what you are talking about here... IF you have poor accuracy of course you should drop your score...

It's like "yeah look, you had 10 of the 20 questions correct, but instead of giving you 50% of the points, we're giving you none, because fuck you!"

What if you have the 10 easy questions correct? Does that mean you deserve 50% of the score? Even with that, I still dont understasnd what you mean. If you miss 10 times and you have 100 notes then you just should lost 10% of the points? (100k).

The new system ONLY benefits top-tier players, and even those will struggle to keep their scores where they currently are, except for accuracy-machines like Halogen-.

They favour players that can handle difficulty at a certain level. Of course, thats how a scoring system should work. If you arent good enought to beat a map with a decent performance then it doesnt matter which score system you have. Or at least thats what I think

And the 200k for having a full combo, while only getting 25% of it for A SINGLE MISS OR COMBO BREAK is incredibly counter-intuitive aswell.
Imagine, 100% the entire song, great 300S-rate, boom, you miss the last note. Well good bye PP, because you just lost 150k for a single miss.


I am too sure that you didnt even test this... How about giving it a shot before complaining like this? And again, dont look at PP for god sake...

I think our current score system isn't even that bad and most people didn't complain about it either. Why would you change a running system? There are MUCH bigger problems that need to be fixed, like that incredibly inaccurate star-rating algorithm.


Because tournament enviorment is really boring to watch most of the times for mania. Mostly because consistency is a thing that mania players do have (a lot of that) and its really acc-based. If you add combo to the table and mods multipliers then it becomes something 100% different, more exciting and of course as a benefit for those who play good, but a huge drop if you miss just once in a close battle.

5. Conclusion
While I really appreciate the time, effort and the attention mania FINALLY gets, I really think we're heading the completely wrong way. Instead of looking what other games do well (SM with rates, o2JAM LN mechanics), we desperately try to do stuff "our own way", which ends up hurting Mania more than it helps. Give a fair PP bonus for DT or give none at all, don't give bonus points for visual preference and for the love of god, don't subtract points for poor accuracy.

We do have problems, indeed. All mania players know that. But it is 100% needed to have rates? It surely doesnt. Would be a cool add for sure, same thing for a scoring system for tournaments. Now that we have the attention that we "deserve" then we have to clear this topic so then we can try something else like SM rates or whatever (you can always go to SM to play your songs at 1.1x if you want tho)

Sometimes, it's better to look at other, long-standing rhythm games and copy what people like about them. They're not popular for no reason. If we keep heading that way (that way being Score V2, 1.06x score multiplier for DT and visuals, lol), mania will never be taken seriously.

You know... Using "lol" after the multiplier "suggestion" is not helping at all. If you really love osu!mania then take this seriously and dont take everyones effort as it was a joke. Does mania really deserves the attention you pointed out? I am not to sure with this way that we behave sometimes. Like this one. Once that we get noticed at least in something we shouldnt just say those kind of stuff. At least thats my opinion

P.S.: I really love osu!mania, I'm not hating on the game in any shape or form, but I'm loving it how it CURRENTLY is. And I still think we should just copy things that other games (that were created long before osu! even existed) do way better.
Dont get me wrong tho, I hope you understand my point of view and the one from all the people that are trying to help here.


Huge thanks for Shoegazer, Halogen, Ciel, smogi, and everyone that is helping here and sorry once again for not being able to help too much with this :(


EDIT: Lets be honest... HD/FL/FI shouldnt give score boost just for the reason that you can just change your skin to make it look as you play with those mods. If we ever get mod brackets that would be unfair for the nomod players.
Halogen-

Endaris wrote:

Maybe mania will get modspecific mappicks in future tournaments though?
I do believe this is the case, actually. The initial OP of this thread indicated that there would be mods in MWC, though the extent of what those mods are has yet to be seen.
Starry-
As most others have said here, I strongly disagree with visual mods giving a score multiplier. The only hard thing about them at a jist is they create artificial difficulty for those who are not used to playing with the mods or if it's their first time trying it. Eventually it makes the map actually easier to read in the sense that it reduces the information the user has to process at a given time, so it can be used in order to do better on maps with high densities (slightly similar to a new player having to adjust to higher density maps as they improve by increasing their scroll speed); Halogen- explained this well in one of his previous posts.

It's similar to using a lane cover in other rhythm games - it's a visual modifier and should be treated as a preference rather than something to increase your score with. I also wouldn't like to see hypothetically someone using Hidden with 99.5% accuracy beating someone using nomod with max 300g, and the player who was beaten being having to be forced to overwrite their score with a visual mod because of it. It adds a dynamic in (mainly lower rated) ranked maps which I don't think should be implemented.

Because of this same reason I really wouldn't want to see visual mod brackets in the osu!mania world cup, either. Although this is going a bit offtopic in regard to the osu!mania ScoreV2, I just feel it would also cause complications to those who already rely on a visual modifier when playing in nomod brackets. (However, HR brackets could work if absolutely needed, and DT should be fine too. With the addition of rates I feel the MWC map selection could be a lot more diverse, although it's a long way off and probably not relevant to talk about in regard to the upcoming MWCs.)

However, I like the changes to the other mods. HR should probably see a bit more of an increase in multiplier since the difference in timing window is quite large. I would absolutely love to see the proposed change in adding rates, too (although I feel it's a long way off yet, it's still something most people have been hoping to happen for a very long time).

The LN changes seem fine to me (letting go of an LN and pressing it again used to give 200s IIRC, which didn't really make any sense).

I don't really have much to input about the combo change. I feel if pulled off correctly it could work; I haven't had the chance to test this out on cutting edge just yet.

Overall, I like the look of things and I'm glad that finally osu!mania is getting a few changes. The only thing I really disagree with, like many others, is the visual mod score modifiers.
yetii
Since it's basicly only for MWC(for now), I don't think having a combo is that bad. It might give the 'underdogs' a higher chance to get a point here and there against some crazy players. It should add some 'spectator value' aswell, since one player can kinda carry his team by holding combo if evrybody else breaks.

However this can turn out to have the exact opposite effect as in players that are naturally unable to hold combo or break more often (especially on dense maps that keep on going like there is no tomorrow) will get punished very hard and will get stomped pretty hard if the opponents can hold combo much better but have for example 2% less accuracy.

I think adding combo for TOURNAMENTS might be a good thing to do so, but the values need to be reconsiderd and definetly needs alot of playtesting to find the right numbers.
Knit

Yetified wrote:

Since it's basicly only for MWC(for now), I don't think having a combo is that bad. It might give the 'underdogs' a higher chance to get a point here and there against some crazy players. It should add some 'spectator value' aswell, since one player can kinda carry his team by holding combo if evrybody else breaks.
yeah, let's just make it easier for a worse player to luck their way to victory. sounds great!
Waltrusizer
yeah lets make the scoring shit for tournaments, the only place it actually matters
Yuudachi-kun

Waltrusizer wrote:

yeah lets make the scoring shit for tournaments, the only place it actually matters
I don't like how it would be decided to change the system for the entire game because of wanting to improve one tournament
Ayaya

Khelly wrote:

Waltrusizer wrote:

yeah lets make the scoring shit for tournaments, the only place it actually matters
I don't like how it would be decided to change the system for the entire game because of wanting to improve one tournament
Yea I kinda think it's a bit dumb that the only reason the score system is being change just to make MWC look "interesting" by making it combo base and more toward visual mods.
Yabuki Nako
How the fuck combo based is more interesting to watch than accuracy based ?

I don't even watch STD tournaments because it's combo based.
Yuudachi-kun
Std is a completely different game and should not be paid attention to when talking about mania.
chistoefur

Khelly wrote:

Std is a completely different game and should not be paid attention to when talking about mania.
Exactly, so why is it that they are trying to implement std features into an entirely different game?

Acc > Combo, always.
Jinjin
Just before anyone thinks that the new LN changes would make long notes easier... you're very mistaken.

Before I begin, I still stick to my words about supporting the new LN changes because it will make LNs less "mashy" and people would need more skills to hit them accurately, but I think the leniency timing could be increased a bit more.

Smoogipooo's post about LNs getting a 1.5x timing leniency is kinda misleading, because it makes it look like the timing window for long notes have become loose compared to what we had before.
However, the current system for LN releases actually works as follows (edit: this is actually slightly incorrect, check out Shoegazer's and Full Tablet's correction to how the LN timing mechanics works):
2.4x timing leniency for Rainbow 300s
2.2x timing leniency for 300
2.0x timing leniency for everything else


The current proposal decreases that LN leniency to 1.5x. If you guys are supporting the new LN changes on the belief that hitting LNs accurately would be a lot easier, then you probably would want to disagree with the new changes instead.

In addition, the current system allows you to hold the key down even when the LN is over and will not cause a miss. Instead, it will just decrease the judgement that you get from the LN (200, 100, 50). However, the new system will give you a miss on the release if you don't time it correctly. This means that if you were the type of person that didn't really pay attention to LN endings and release them too early or too late (or usually get 200 or below on LNs), you're going to be hurt a lot by this new change.

Therefore, I strongly suggest you mania players to look again (and even try it out yourselves) into the LN changes, and see if you guys are satisfied with it.
dennischan
I am against any kind of multiplier for visual mods, and too large of a combo scoring. I think that o!maina's scoring is fine as it is, but LN changes are definitely welcome. The main reason that I prefer playing mania over standard was because combo didnt count in score, and I'd like to keep it like that since acc is much more important than combo.
Thanks for your attention.
Shoegazer

iJinjin wrote:

Just before anyone thinks that the new LN changes would make long notes easier... you're very mistaken.

Before I begin, I still stick to my words about supporting the new LN changes because it will make LNs less "mashy" and people would need more skills to hit them accurately, but I think the leniency timing could be increased a bit more.

Smoogipooo's post about LNs getting a 1.5x timing leniency is kinda misleading, because it makes it look like the timing window for long notes have become loose compared to what we had before.
However, the current system for LN releases actually works as follows:
2.4x timing leniency for Rainbow 300s
2.2x timing leniency for 300
2.0x timing leniency for everything else


The current proposal decreases that LN leniency to 1.5x. If you guys are supporting the new LN changes on the belief that hitting LNs accurately would be a lot easier, then you probably would want to disagree with the new changes instead.

In addition, the current system allows you to hold the key down even when the LN is over and will not cause a miss. Instead, it will just decrease the judgement that you get from the LN (200, 100, 50). However, the new system will give you a miss on the release if you don't time it correctly. This means that if you were the type of person that didn't really pay attention to LN endings and release them too early or too late (or usually get 200 or below on LNs), you're going to be hurt a lot by this new change.

Therefore, I strongly suggest you mania players to look again (and even try it out yourselves) into the LN changes, and see if you guys are satisfied with it.
This is incorrect - or rather how you described LNs in score v1 is incorrect. Your message is still correct, however - I would recommend people to try out the LN changes.

LNs in score v1 are based on two criteria - the gap between last LN head hit and the LN head (let's say, LNStart), and the combined time of the difference between the last LN head hit and the LN head (LNStart) and the difference between the LN release and when you're supposed to release the LN (LNEnd).

If you release a LN too early and you repress the LN, that repress would be considered your last LN head hit.

Here are the timing windows for OD8 (I assume timing values are truncated), for the first criterion (LNStart):
300g: 19ms (16ms * 1.2 rounded down)
300: 44ms (40ms * 1.1)
200: 73ms
100: 103ms
50: 127ms


Basically, if the last LN head hit is 20ms from the LN head, you will never get a 300g. If your last LN head hit is 14ms, as long as it meets the second criterion, you will get a 300g.

The second criterion works like this, keep in mind this accounts for the combined time of LNStart and LNEnd.
300g: 38ms (16ms * 2.4 rounded down)
300: 88ms (40ms * 2.2)
200: 146ms (73ms * 2)
100: 206ms (103ms * 2)
50s: 254ms (127ms * 2)

If your LNStart is 14ms, you have a release window of 24ms for a 300g, a 74ms release window for a normal 300, 132ms window for a 200, and so on. If this was scorev2, your release windows will be 24ms/66ms/104ms. Not necessarily a change with rainbows, but it greatly affects 200s and lower judgements.

How LN releases can potentially be 2.4x as lenient as normal hits is when you have a perfect LNStart (0ms) and you hit a rainbow 300. Same deal with normal 300s, except it's 2.2x as lenient based on the table above.

What iJinjin has said about requiring community input about LNs is definitely necessary, because the 1.5x lenience is a complete mislead as the LN mechanics are not explicitly listed anywhere on the forums. Play through LN heavy charts that you have issues FCing or getting 96%+, and let smoogi (and post your thoughts in this thread) know so we know whether or not we should make LNs more lenient. I personally want LN releases to be 1.75x as lenient rather than 1.5x, but again - this is something that requires experimenting.
Full Tablet

iJinjin wrote:

However, the current system for LN releases actually works as follows:
2.4x timing leniency for Rainbow 300s
2.2x timing leniency for 300
2.0x timing leniency for everything else
Actually, it's slightly different from that.

To get a Rainbow 300:
- You must hit the start within a timing window that is 1.2x the size of the timing window of a Rainbow in a regular note.
- AND, the average of the error in the start and the release must be within a timing window that is 1.2x the size of a Rainbow in a regular note.
(the 2.4x actually represents the sum of the error in press and error in release).
- AND, the error in release must be within the timing error of a 50 judgment.
- AND, there must be no hold breaks.

To get a 300: Same as rainbow, but with timing windows that are 1.1x the size (and you must have missed the conditions to get a Rainbow, of course).

To get a 200 or 100: Same as before, but with timing windows that are 1.0x the size, and the condition of not breaking the hold is removed.

To get a 50: The only condition is releasing the note within the time window of a 50 in a regular note.
FrenzyLi


proposing a combo v2 formula that does not need combo cap.
Topic Starter
smoogipoo
Hey all,

Cutting Edge has been updated with changes to ScoreV2 that were proposed by Shoegazer here. I want to stress that the changes are not final and we are still tweaking the system to properly represent a player's skill in a competitive setting.

Please note that HD/FI/FL mod multipliers have not yet been removed. These are slated to be removed in the next iteration of changes.

Edit: Posting this because I've explained it on reddit:

There are two components to the score.
- Accuracy
Essentially as accuracy increases we want you to gain more and more score while accounting for the difficulty of maintaining a 99%+ accuracy over 90%. To do this accuracy is exponentiated so that it is not quite a linear multiplier. In the previous iteration it was raised to the 10th power, in the new iteration it is raised to a factor of the accuracy.
This has the effect of causing lower accuracies to not be so much of dead weight as they were previously, while still providing a steep curve towards 100% accuracy as seen in this graph (red = old, blue = new): https://u-gi.me/sykzM

- Combo
Combo is the harder one to talk about. We want to award holding combo, but at the same time not punish holding 4000 combo and missing once too much. To achieve this your individual hit scores are weighted by the combo you have after hitting the note. In the previous iteration this was a linear relationship, which resulted in punishing for missing after holding 4000 combo. In the new iteration it is logarithmic, with a cap at log_4(400) (meaning combo > 400 will be weighed as if your combo was 400), as shown in this graph (red = old, blue = new): https://u-gi.me/oJ6sa
Einzvern

smoogipooo wrote:

Hey all,

Cutting Edge has been updated with changes to ScoreV2 that were proposed by Shoegazer here. I want to stress that the changes are not final and we are still tweaking the system to properly represent a player's skill in a competitive setting.

Please note that HD/FI/FL mod multipliers have not yet been removed. These are slated to be removed in the next iteration of changes.
Idk what to say '-'
ikzune
Personally i think that being able to hold 400 combo really depends on the song, some songs will have this being easily achievable despite the songs overall difficulty due quiet sections with lighter patterns, at least in 4key i would suggest raising this or having the system account for how hard it is to hold combo in a certain song overall and change judgement slightly based on that however that may just be me ._.

edit* i feel for 7keys 400 seems about right but maybe its because im at a low level and far less consistent
robby250
Here are my irrelevant opinions, I'll keep it short:

Combo: score v1 is fine, Shoegazer's suggestion might make it very slightly better than that.

Accuracy: same as above

LN timings: should be made more lenient than score v1, not tighter. There's a reason LN spam maps are made lower OD by mappers.

Mod multipliers: the only thing actually worth adding, finding the right multiplier for each mod so that pp for mods can be added until per-mod leaderboards get implemented.

EDIT: and yeah visual mods shouldn't have multipliers but that's already sorted.

My verdict: score v1 is probably the smallest of problems in osu!mania, other than adding mod multipliers for DT pp this is a waste of time.
den0saur
So, i suppose, no changes will EVER come to Stable Fallback and no Score v2 to mania?
Topic Starter
smoogipoo
Changes will not be coming to Stable Fallback.
Arras

robby250 wrote:

Here are my irrelevant opinions, I'll keep it short:

Combo: score v1 is fine, Shoegazer's suggestion might make it very slightly better than that.

Accuracy: same as above

LN timings: should be made more lenient than score v1, not tighter. There's a reason LN spam maps are made lower OD by mappers.

Mod multipliers: the only thing actually worth adding, finding the right multiplier for each mod so that pp for mods can be added until per-mod leaderboards get implemented.

EDIT: and yeah visual mods shouldn't have multipliers but that's already sorted.

My verdict: score v1 is probably the smallest of problems in osu!mania, other than adding mod multipliers for DT pp this is a waste of time.
I disagree. Scorev1 frequently has me beating my old scores where the old score has a higher accuracy and a similar combo. Hopefully this can mitigate that sort of thing, as it's really annoying when it happens. While I can't say anything about the release timing leniency as I haven't tried scorev2 (and I assume I can't, since cutting edge can't do multiplayer without supporter), the fact that LNs are split into two notes is a fantastic change imo. This gives the player much better feedback for how well they did on the start of an LN, and you can no longer cheese LN stuff by just holding everything and taking the 200s.
If anything, I'd say the game feeling good to play is far more important than "pp".
Mechanizen
You might make a poll to know how much peoples are playing each mode so you can adjust multipliers properly...
robby250

Arras wrote:

I disagree. Scorev1 frequently has me beating my old scores where the old score has a higher accuracy and a similar combo. Hopefully this can mitigate that sort of thing, as it's really annoying when it happens. While I can't say anything about the release timing leniency as I haven't tried scorev2 (and I assume I can't, since cutting edge can't do multiplayer without supporter), the fact that LNs are split into two notes is a fantastic change imo. This gives the player much better feedback for how well they did on the start of an LN, and you can no longer cheese LN stuff by just holding everything and taking the 200s.
If anything, I'd say the game feeling good to play is far more important than "pp".
I'm all for LNs being split into two parts for better feedback, and yeah I haven't tested scorev2 either because I can't but from what I've read in this thread the LNs were made tighter, when they should be the same or more lenient.

I'm not sure the changes in score v2 would fix the issue you're mentioning as so far it seems to be similar but with the combo cap higher at 400.

Star rating is broken when you look at a per-map basis, but assuming that everyone plays every map (which is the case as there are so few of them), it's fine.

Maybe for you pp isn't important but the complete lack of difficult maps kills the game for higher end players.

Therefore I believe the most important issue remaining is the lack of maps for top players, which also kills competition and activity from top players, and with fewer top players and less competition there's much less attraction for the game mode overall.

Ranking more maps isn't something that can be done as easily as adding mod pp, so just add mod pp faster instead of trying to fix a score system that isn't broken.
Topic Starter
smoogipoo
Star rating and pp is irrelevant to this entire discussion. ScoreV2 will not even be ranked for a long time, and pp/sr calculations are a completely separate matter altogether.
robby250

smoogipooo wrote:

Star rating and pp is irrelevant to this entire discussion. ScoreV2 will not even be ranked for a long time, and pp/sr calculations are a completely separate matter altogether.
Yeah that's fine, sorry for derailing, I did however give my feedback on what I think about score v2 and what should be changed so take it or leave it.
MegaAmoonguss
I tried out ScoreV2 in multiplayer yesterday and one person in the match literally SS'd the song but had one miss in the middle and got 896k for that. It probably would have been around 997-998k without the miss, and probably like 980-990k on regular Score. I'm not really a fan of how insanely the combo affects you score, and I'm personally hoping that it gets changed in some manner. One of the things I always liked about mania better than standard is the fact that in standard, it almost doesn't matter how well you actually do because if you hold a higher combo you get a higher score. I liked that in mania you can miss, but the emphasis is more on getting as many rainbow 300s and 300s as possible. I'm definitely all for some kind of combo system, but not one that punishes as hard as this lol
Topic Starter
smoogipoo

MegaAmoonguss wrote:

I tried out ScoreV2 in multiplayer yesterday and one person in the match literally SS'd the song but had one miss in the middle and got 896k for that. It probably would have been around 997-998k without the miss, and probably like 980-990k on regular Score. I'm not really a fan of how insanely the combo affects you score, and I'm personally hoping that it gets changed in some manner. One of the things I always liked about mania better than standard is the fact that in standard, it almost doesn't matter how well you actually do because if you hold a higher combo you get a higher score. I liked that in mania you can miss, but the emphasis is more on getting as many rainbow 300s and 300s as possible. I'm definitely all for some kind of combo system, but not one that punishes as hard as this lol
We need more information, specifically:

* How long was the map?
* Were they actually using ScoreV2? Or even the updated ScoreV2? Keep in mind they have to be on Cutting Edge to try it.
MegaAmoonguss

smoogipooo wrote:

We need more information, specifically:

* How long was the map?
* Were they actually using ScoreV2? Or even the updated ScoreV2? Keep in mind they have to be on Cutting Edge to try it.
I guess it wasn't an updated version. I just used the ScoreV2 that is available in the latest stable release, which I guess must be an old version. The map was Sakura Mirage [ADVANCED], which is a low 3 star map and is 2 minutes long. I'll definitely check out the Cutting Edge version to see how it compares.
ReTLoM
http://puu.sh/puPSz/42e2a1abb5.jpg

Here i got a Score with old Version of V2 and it feels way to low :) btw im not one of the ACC players so im kinda suck at r300 ratio but still feels low
gamecrashed_old
I think the main problem is that by making combo so important you're encouraging mashing in a mode that already has super lenient windows and a lack of excess press window.
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