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osu!mania ScoreV2 live!

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FelipeLink
Guys, why we dont change the score system? pretty simple right, i dont see any reply on this saying that we should change the score system we have. you know, see all this commotion about the change... can we HEAR the players? if a massive amount of player saying that its NOT good its WORSE, we should not change right? or because of the minority we will change!?!? i dont think thats correct, just saying.

As a example, did someone complained about the Rate mods? (Not saying the Score multiplier, the mod itself)
See, when we LIKE we dont Complain.

So why changing the score system?
Like, changing the score system to a WORSE score system?

.
PiXL

Halogen- wrote:

With how the accuracy v2 formula works, 5-8 misses would cause a MASSIVE drop in score, especially if there's not a huge amount of notes. Even with 2000 notes, 5 to 8 misses would cause a reasonable dent on the accuracy side and would likely suffer a reasonable amount against the amount of points that the other player would have lost chopping the song right down the middle. Everyone is making it seem like a combo right in the middle is going to completely invalidate your score and make it so that it's impossible to come back -- the fact of the matter is, a miss right in the middle of the chart is still going to net you half of the combo scoring attribute, assuming that the chart has a constant pace -- for anyone who doesn't realize it, hasn't read yet, or refuses to read due to being completely blinded by a new score system, combo is only going to accommodate for 20% of the score. If a player simply misses and then recovers, their score will suffer, but not as much as you're making it out to be.

The inevitable solution for having a combo-based scoring system is going to require a curve that emphasizes building combo more than it does sustaining it - that is, putting a larger weight of the score for the combo bonus in the first x% of a song's max combo, and then resolving that curve over the remaining portion of the combo.

It's very clear that the weighting is harsh if you find some of the screenshots going around -- it does need to be addressed, as it is certainly not infallible. I don't agree with the modifier bonuses for HD/FL/FI, but I do feel like a slight orientation towards combo allows one of the more key elements of the game to be emphasized, and that's long notes. With the way the timing window has been shifted for V2, the mechanic is a lot more important to be proficient at - and it penalizes the fuck out of you if you can't do it (as it should).
20% is still massive for something that is as arbitrary as combo scoring. in a system where the difficulty structure of a chart is not taken into account, where you miss should be irrelevant. to put things in perspective, 20% is 200k. the difference between a 600k barely-passed-the-chart play and an 800k "I-can-get-97%-or-higher" play. (of course its near impossible to actually get 0 points from the combo factor but that's besides the point)

In many cases for vsrg charts the end is the hardest part of the file (due to both climax theory and stamina), yet in a system where combo is taken into account, the end is the place where, if you have to miss, it is most optimal to miss at. this system literally rewards doing bad on the hardest part

considering how most peoples top plays are either 1) low 90s on overrated maps, or 2) SDCB plays.
these types of scores are going to be EXTREMELY affected by this system. the low 90s type of scores will turn into fluke/mashed scores that got unnaturally high combo, and those SDCB scores will no longer be about improving accuracy on runs and now about keeping your combo as long as you can at any cost
Aqo
please remove score multiplier from HD/FL those mods literally make charts easier lol

I play nomod 90% of the time and still score higher with HD than without. giving vision mods a score bonus is kind of ridiculous.
for HR/DT it's fine imo, due to the 1mil fixed score style. it means you only gain anything from those after you already 940K+ score on the chart, which is a good point to already scrap nomod and go for DT

please remove HT/EZ scores completely. simply because those mods are lame. we don't need people getting PP from HT maniera that's zzz...
gintoki147
Excuse me, but what happens to the old scores?
Do they get automatically updated or what?
Ayaya
People are wondering about what would happen to old scores when this is officially implemented. Would there be a score wipe or a way to convert old scores into the ScoreV2 system?
Ankanogradiel
rip best pp System NotLikeThis


Edit: I'm drunk nvm.
Ayaya

Ankanogradiel wrote:

rip best pp System NotLikeThis
This is score system, not pp system
Ankanogradiel

Ayaya wrote:

Ankanogradiel wrote:

rip best pp System NotLikeThis
This is score system, not pp system

yah misread sorry.
i don't think the old scores will be wiped tbh
more likely to be left as they are now. because it has happened before in osu standard if I remember well
projectc1
just gonna chill here and wait for v3 score system next drama.
FelipeLink
So about the ''COMBO'' score, and the Score multipliers.

First of all, COMBO is not the entire thing on mania, we dont want to suffer so much because we just missed 1 TIME in the freaking map.

Score V1 VS Score V2:

Score V2 99,41 2xmiss in ONE spot, the middle of the map: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5390253 855,415 (Ratio 6:1 of 300g)

Score V1 96,11 16xmiss in various spot: http://puu.sh/psLAa/1c0ec14641.jpg 875,531 (Ratio 1:1 of 300g)

... good right? of course not



And for the love of God, 1.06x multiplier is PRETTY big, you know i PASSED 1MILLION with 1:1 RATIO because of COMBO SCORE

~ https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5390366

Missed in the FINALS note, and STILL BREAKED THE 1MILLION
(Max combo: 1,507)
Please, consider that combo score is pretty ridiculous
Conversation
I do agree on the LN changes and some mod multipliers, but I don't agree on adding rewards on HD/FI/FL since it's just a visual mod which helps the players who don't do well with No Mod.
[*]The biggest thing I disagree on is the combo scoring. Combo should be given less or no reward at all since you can technically have worse accuracy and high combo and beat your previous score. Let's say you get a 95.2% S rank and then you have a score that's around a low 94% with less MAX and more 200s and 100s and misses near the end of the map, but you had a higher combo and that would have a higher score than the S rank which doesn't seem fair at all. I've also noticed in the testing that people intentionally missed in middle of combos but still had extremely high accuracy with 99%, but those with 96% and had very high combos completely demolished those scores. In my opinion, a Small reward should be given for having higher combo or FC such as having a 5% part of the score instead of the ludicrous 20%.
[*]HR should be reworked to and I'm fine with the 1.06x multiplier and if it were higher it would be better :)
[*]DT should have a higher Score multiplier rewarding the player more such as STD's 1.12x.
[*]Those rates would be nice to have, 100/110/120%... but would need DT to have a 1.25x multiplier to have each 10% be worth .05x multiplier.
e.g 1.1x rate/110% would give 1.05x and 1.4x rate/140% would give 1.2x
[*]HT rate should be given less reward as STD does. STD gives .30x , but Mania gives .5x which I hope gets lowered to .30x like in STD to give players less reward for playing Half Time.


In recap, good changes on the LNs, bad on adding multiplier to HD/FI/FL. Really bad on the combo scoring , HR could be better but is good so far, DT give more reward and should have rates and HT give less reward :) I am very glad a change is happening, but I hope it won't be a disaster. Fix these problems please! :D
rohen04
I'll voice that the combo portion should be lowered to 10 or 5%, or stay as it is with the current system.

20% is definitely too much and would make tournament matches less exciting than they already are, as it would create much larger score gaps than before (that's what I'm thinking at least). I have experienced losses of over 100k Score because of 1 miss in the wrong place.

Another option I see is setting a limit to the "combo bonus", similar to Taiko: You get more Score for a higher combo, but this is limited to something like 200-300 combo (or 10% of the total notes). That way, you can measure consistency without relying on a flawless play too much.

If this was to be implemented as the regular score mechanic, it would make Mania needlessly grindy. I think most people prefer the score system as it is.

LN changes are really good!

The mods aspect has been stressed out enough here.
Ankanogradiel
yes this seems kind of unfair. combo percentage should be a bit lower but not zero. The ideal for me would be a score system based on 90% accuracy 5% number of misses and 5% combo but that would require big changes.
Asthmatic Magic

Vygatron wrote:

JUST FUCK MY ASS WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS COMBO SHIT
There is nothing else left to say really.
The fact that this is being considered means something is already very wrong.
Frustration

rohen04 wrote:

I'll voice that the combo portion should be lowered to 10 or 5%, or stay as it is with the current system.

20% is definitely too much and would make tournament matches less exciting than they already are, as it would create much larger score gaps than before (that's what I'm thinking at least). I have experienced losses of over 100k Score because of 1 miss in the wrong place.

Another option I see is setting a limit to the "combo bonus", similar to Taiko: You get more Score for a higher combo, but this is limited to something like 200-300 combo (or 10% of the total notes). That way, you can measure consistency without relying on a flawless play too much.

If this was to be implemented as the regular score mechanic, it would make Mania needlessly grindy. I think most people prefer the score system as it is.

LN changes are really good!

The mods aspect has been stressed out enough here.
want to point out that this is the post that I liked the most and I share the same opinion on most of the aspects
Tidek

rohen04 wrote:

I'll voice that the combo portion should be lowered to 10 or 5%, or stay as it is with the current system.

20% is definitely too much and would make tournament matches less exciting than they already are, as it would create much larger score gaps than before (that's what I'm thinking at least). I have experienced losses of over 100k Score because of 1 miss in the wrong place.

Another option I see is setting a limit to the "combo bonus", similar to Taiko: You get more Score for a higher combo, but this is limited to something like 200-300 combo (or 10% of the total notes). That way, you can measure consistency without relying on a flawless play too much.

If this was to be implemented as the regular score mechanic, it would make Mania needlessly grindy. I think most people prefer the score system as it is.

LN changes are really good!

The mods aspect has been stressed out enough here.
Logarythm where combo bonus is getting smaller when combo is higher should be a good balance. Because you dont lose that much when you miss in middle of song.
Hinpoppo
Wow.




btwlovethelnchanges
juankristal
About visual mods I think its fine to leave it as 1.06x. We cant deny that playing HD / FL (despite being just personal preference) is something that should be rewarded because it does change the difficulty of reading at least.

Which I dont agree tho is that HR and DT are BY FAR harder than any visual mod. HR being 1,06x and with the 300g window is pmuch imposible to beat nomod scores and if you do, you wont do it for too much. I think HR should give 1,25x to make a difference.

By not leaving the multiplier for visual mods well, HD players can still play hidden but a nomod wont ever think about going HD / FL. If you keep the multiplier you might actualy give the chance to some teams to take some risks in order to pull out a good FL / HD performance to try and outclass a team that is slighty better in accuracy.

Just my 2 cents. I will test this as much as I can to give feedback but not too sure how strong I am at maths to give stuff.


And also, for all those people that disagree with the change is 100% fine that you do! But please, dont disturb the post. Just posting a "I dont like the score system" is fine, even if it lacks of feedback at least we can know if the changes suits or not for a % of the people. Saying that tho its really good if you can give suggestions (it doesnt have to be like a huge text wall like Shoegazer if you dont really want lol) but even giving a bit of suggestions is always good.

And yeah, I am talking to you, Stepmania player. You can always keep playing Stepmania if you dont want to help with this but please dont post here just to disturb.
spoonguy
ln changes seem cool, would like to test them out but i don't have a supp tag l0l

visual mods should help you read, not boost your score

dt and hr boosts should be a bit higher imo

combo is valued a bit too much in the score, combo scoring should be tweaked a bit or just diminished

people are reacting too explosively here (like usual)

i think that's everything
good to see things moving for once
just make sure to take what the majority of the community suggests seriously now, even if some of them are reacting in the way they are in the moment
Conversation

juankristal wrote:

And also, for all those people that disagree with the change is 100% fine that you do! But please, dont disturb the post. Just posting a "I dont like the score system" is fine, even if it lacks of feedback at least we can know if the changes suits or not for a % of the people. Saying that tho its really good if you can give suggestions (it doesnt have to be like a huge text wall like Shoegazer if you dont really want lol) but even giving a bit of suggestions is always good.

And yeah, I am talking to you, Stepmania player. You can always keep playing Stepmania if you dont want to help with this but please dont post here just to disturb.
Thank you for this Juan, many people don't understand that you guys are trying to get as much feedback as possible to Improve this and just saying " i don't like it" doesn't help them not make it bad for you guys. These people have several months to fix this, so you don't have to overreact because something is very wrong on the very first day. Just give them feedback on what you like and or don't like and they'll look into it.
Yabuki Nako
Those are nice changes for mania players who have great aim.
Yuudachi-kun
Mania is really chill cause Combo doesnt matter too much and I think 10% > 20% if you do decide to change thigs for the sake of change only
Bobbias
As a permanent FL player I disagree with giving vision mods a bonus. Vision mods in mania games are more a playstyle than something to increase difficulty and should be considered this way. I do think it's cool that a bonus would possibly add to the tactics in mwc, but I don't think that outweighs the effect it has on players like myself. Giving players like myself a 6% bonus on score is unfair given that playing flashlight for me is equivalent to playing nomod for most players.
juankristal


Not sure if HR+DT should give 1.12x but if thats supposed to be true then there is a bug over there!
Valedict

Bobbias wrote:

As a permanent FL player I disagree with giving vision mods a bonus. Vision mods in mania games are more a playstyle than something to increase difficulty and should be considered this way. I do think it's cool that a bonus would possibly add to the tactics in mwc, but I don't think that outweighs the effect it has on players like myself. Giving players like myself a 6% bonus on score is unfair given that playing flashlight for me is equivalent to playing nomod for most players.
Quoting this because this sums up my main concerns about scorev2, it's not fair to nomod players if folks who have incorporated visual mods into their playstyle get a free boost in score just for having a mod they can't play without active.


When's fixed HD cover tho : ?
juankristal
As a side note, I am not too sure if this is related to multi rooms itself or just scoreV2 but you can check this by yourself:



It applies DT mod to a single player randomly like that and well, you can draw your own conclusions.
-Konner-
Pretty much every player that i know who mains a visual mod, says that you should never learn to use visual mods because it's too hard to get used to nomod again. I'm also weird and play on a high scroll speed which makes it really awkward for me to try visual mods. If i play hidden, i can't really get used to the lack of reading space compared to nomod as i focus on a fairly low point on the playfield but it really messes with how well i can keep up if some of that is obscured. Flashlight is something which seems to help players who have issues with reading denser patterns within short amounts of time. I have the opposite problem, i have trouble with reading anything below speed 32 at this point for 4k (i currently play 35).

Although i could try and learn to use visual mods and try and adjust to reading with them, based on what other players have always told me about them, they're not worth learning to use. I don't know many players who can just casually switch between nomod and usually visual mods. There's a lot of players who sometimes use Hidden on maps which they find too hard for them. People have told me that they do that in order to have less on the screen to focus on (I remember Cryolien once telling me that he couldn't pass some of the mappool of a tournament without playing hidden despite not being a hidden player).

The idea of giving a score increase to players who use visual mods just seems like it's giving players a free handicap which they don't actually need. Also, the hidden and fade-in mods in general have their own problems. There're so many players who use things such as lane covers or a kind of static hidden element within their skins instead of using the mods. I believe that a lot more people would use hidden and fade-in if they had some form of customisation. Fade-in is not really even a legitimate option, at least whilst it has the combo scaling. Having fade-in set to a certain point or being able to customise it would make it much more of a playable option. There's an extremely big difference between reading from the top of the playfield and having to adjust your timing to compensate, and having to read every note right before it touches the judgement line. This basically forces you to drop combo to avoid getting constant 200s or lower.

Well that's me going too in depth over small things as usual. Hope the opinions help in some way.
Good luck with finding a balance.
Mindwaves
Welp if this is the logic we going with, please CTB score based on accuracy next please.

No but for real:

Score is made up of 20% combo and 80% accuracy.

We want to value the more accurate players (accuracy) whilst applying a small reward for consistency (combo).
What in the actual FUCK?!?
In what world do Combo add more too consistency than ACC???
PiXL

juankristal wrote:

About visual mods I think its fine to leave it as 1.06x. We cant deny that playing HD / FL (despite being just personal preference) is something that should be rewarded because it does change the difficulty of reading at least.
idk if you are aware, but the people who use those visual mods do it to make reading EASIER. theres a reason why LR2 players use their own custom lane covers, and their own sudden/hidden settings. people dont use those mods to make the game harder. its literally there for their own ability to read. giving those a bonus multiplier would be like giving certain HitPositions a multiplier, or certain scroll speeds a multiplier
Staravia
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
Don't give FL/HD multipliers!
HR is debatable, but but like what most people say, FL/HD is more of a play style.
reyss

projectc1 wrote:

just gonna chill here and wait for v3 score system next drama.
oh yeah... demm...
-Konner-
It's not drama. They want feedback and people are giving their feedback. Some people have been way too immature about how they've tried to make their position known but at least they are making people aware of their opinion as a whole. People should not join in with what those people have done but it still shows that people dislike the ideas.

If you don't give any feedback, nothing will change. If you don't give detailed feedback, no *specific* changes will be made. Just make sure to voice your opinions and ideas without filling the thread (or any other thread), with what is basically spam with a small point to make.
Hinpoppo
I don't really want to put the effort in right now, but I'm going to cast my vote in for not letting visual mods affect score for obvious reasons.
reyss

-Konner- wrote:

It's not drama. They want feedback and people are giving their feedback. Some people have been way too immature about how they've tried to make their position known but at least they are making people aware of their opinion as a whole. People should not join in with what those people have done but it still shows that people dislike the ideas.

If you don't give any feedback, nothing will change. If you don't give detailed feedback, no *specific* changes will be made. Just make sure to voice your opinions and ideas without filling the thread (or any other thread), with what is basically spam with a small point to make.
yeah i know, i'm not agree with this too except the LN.
Hotaru-
Visual Mod got multiplier score???
Oh man.. srsly visual mod just make player more confortable not make it hard
I said this coz I'm FL player and also HD player
f
Brownsville369
alright, I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, and I'm not THAT good at mania but here goes

Honestly visual mods for mania don't need their own score modifier, that's absurd they do nothing to increase the difficulty of the song and many people will use those mods to aid with reading so to unfairly add score just because of the way they read is ridiculous, though not nearly as much as this next point.

As for the combo addition to mania... that's absolutely asinine. I don't know where you got this idea for combo affecting score so greatly in the thing to presumably become the new default scoring system but you need to stop. Combo should not be a factor in score at all, let alone 20% the very idea of that is just ridiculous. It punishes missing spread out more than missing all at once, let's say you miss 4 times with everything else being Max 300, you have 5 short combos or 2 with one being long and the other being short. The 2 combos will be favored over the shorter one which is stupid because they both have the same accuracy which is the truest measure of skill of a player. If you believe that accuracy isn't the best measure of skill for a player, then just remove any semblance of "accuracy" from the game, and just make notes "hit" or "miss" without any variation and make the scoring purely combos.

I'm not trying to insult you or anything, but you're being incredibly stubborn on this issue when it's very very apparent that many people in the community don't like it and so I'm trying to make you see the flaws with it. I hope you reconsider this issue (mostly the 20% of score being combo) because if not and this becomes the new "norm" for scoring you're going to see a mass exodus of mania players to a game that isn't basing 20% of your score on combo alone. It's up to you what happens after this. No pressure.
PisRyder
First of all sorry for my bad English :3 Here are some of my opinions:
  1. LN: OMG YESS
  2. NF/EZ/HT: 0.5x is fine
  3. HR: 1.1-1.2x
  4. DT: "Make DT adjust to 100%/110%/.../150% with score bonus increments of 0.05x (or something like that)" -> Hell Yeah!!!
  5. HD,FL,FI: Like ALMOST people say, a big NO!
    Long text + Bad grammar
    People use these mods not to make the map harder, but easier to read. I used to play HD at some point and be like "Never gonna turn this sh*t off", but then a wild SV-heavy map appears and I be like "WTF is going on behind that covered space?" and switch back to nomod *the end*. These mods has it's advantages and disadvantages, the same applied to nomod so it's up to players preference to pick what they like best. If Standard has mouse/tablet/touchscreen players, then we Mania has HD,FL,FI,nomod players.
  6. Combo: I really hope that combo-based score nerver make it way to Mania *sigh*
    Long text + Bad grammar
    I quit Standard because combo-based score... When I look at the local ranking, I want to see the improvement, that means best play at top and worst play at bottom. But when I find my best play is at bottom and worst play at top, it's very anoying >.< I really like the current score system of Mania, 50% base score and 50% bonus score. The bonus score is some what "combo-based" but when I miss at half part of the song, it's not affect score as mush as scorev2. If it's necessary to make the upcoming MWC more interesting, I suggest when you get xcombo (ex:100) a portion of 20% combo-based score will be add to your current score, so the hardest part of the song (miss is somewhat unavoiable) still have impact on final score but not as heavy as current scorev2.
I really like Mania mode in osu!, but if scorev2 is necessary for the mode to move-on then I just have to adapt and find a way of dealing with it.
Thanks for reading!
Ciel
Time for my contribution to this.

Main sections organized by increasing order of importance. Read bolded sentences for tldr.

Mods


Vision Mods

These are HD, FI, and FL.
As someone who play with a HD skin (not using the hidden mod), and is completely unable to play nomod otherwise, I think if the HD mod still stays the same (it shouldn't), then the 1.06x multiplier should be fine. This is due to the fact that playing with a lane cover which effectively moves up and down is not particularly easy to play, and results in those intentional misses in order to sometimes bring the cover down. On the other hand, if the HD mod gets fixed to become static, then I believe there should be no multiplier. This is due to the fact that (with the exception of slowjams (not something to discount)), most high level players don't even look below a certain point on the screen when playing. This is why people play with a cover, in order to hide the visual clutter that lies below a certain point where people pay attention. While there may be some merit to giving a score multiplier simply for the ability to deal with slowjams, this is such a rare occurrence overall, that I don't think it really should warrant any bonus.

Misc.

The remaining mods are not really worth commenting about yet, as the score mutlipliers they provide is more relevant when talking about the pp system, which is not the main topic of concern at the moment. As a side note though, playing a song with DT is close to playing an entirely different song, which no amount of score buff could fix as a problem (it would be too little or too much). In addition, with HR, the timing window for a 300g is reduced, which impacts the score by a large amount. Therefore, that mod would probably also require a significant buff. Of course, for tournament play, none of the non-vision mods actually matter that much, so lets just ignore this for now.

Long Notes


LN End Window

After playing around with this a bit, I believe that this timing window is currently a little bit too small. Considering how it's inherently harder to time releases over holds anyways, I think this should be increased to something around a 2.0x multiplier instead. (Obviously, this would require much testing. A more statistical approach to do this would be to analyze replays that we already have, and the spread of the LN release timings compared to LN holds, given easier maps (since LN heavy maps would give somewhat inaccurate results)).

HP

An unintended side effect of this LN change is the fact that people can now lose HP for failing to release a note on time, something which did not happen before. In addition, there are now double the chances for people to miss an lose HP, which would result in maps getting harder this way. There probably needs to be a look into the side effects of this, especially for higher level maps, but this is also probably not as relevant for tournament play, except for possibly the final few rounds.

Score


I won't be doing as much number crunching for this part as some other have, mostly since I don't have the energy for it.

Combo

As Shoegazer has already pointed out in his post, mania is not really a gamemode where people single-mindedly focus on FCs, and thus, having this quadratic (it's quadratic guys) scoring system will not work in this game mode, unlike std and ctb. Instead, we tend to focus on aiming for higher accuracy instead, with overall scores being decent.

Players in this mode will (unless they are attempting to FC) not care about a random miss somewhere in the middle of the song, especially in a slow part. It's just a single miss, and won't significantly contribute to the final accuracy of the play. Instead, we only really care when we either miss a large number of notes in a burst (in which case we just flailed the burst), or when we are constantly missing throughout some section (lets say a stream of some sort). In order to fix this, there should be diminishing returns on each note at some point, rather than an quadratic increase in returns instead. This could take the form of a logarithmic curve, or there could be a system similar to taiko instead, where the bonus increases up until a certain cap, where it no longer grows.

On a side note, one of the things I like about the old "combo" scoring mechanism was the fact that you still lost combo for not hitting a 300. This continue to penalize people who are mashing through some section of the song, but can retain combo nonetheless (for example, jumptrilling rolls or jumpstreams a la PLANET//SHIPPER). I'm not sure if this should stay or not, but it is worth keeping in mind to some extent.

Accuracy

I like the direction that this is taking, where scores are really calculated exponentially off of accuracy instead of linearly. The exponent is a bit too extreme right now however, as the score dropoff is quite extreme for even taking a small hit in accuracy. People have already ran numbers on this, and this would also obviously need testing with combo as well in order to determine what a good balance point is.

Which leads me to my final point.

Combo and Accuracy Balance

See this screenshot?
This is the extreme example of someone who has terrible accuracy, and yet can somehow FC the map. Where would we put him in the grand scheme of "how good is this score?" This is where the balance between combo and accuracy must be considered, and only after finalizing the individual scoring metrics within each section. As of right now, I think the balance of the 2 sections is extremely off, especially with the current combo scoring system in play. However, since that is subject to change, I will refrain for saying much more for now.
my angel zhla
people must really like combos.


this is just my opinion i'm not very professional to things like this ><

the LN changes are great !
mania rate changes will be interesting too

but combo game and score multiply for visual mods ?
no please

some people play better with nomod, some people play better with hd, some people play better with fl
preference

As a nomod player myself it's unfair to think that mods like these would give score bonus
from my experiences it messed with my reading and destroyed accuracy, more 200s, almost 1:1 300 ratios
sure it is possible to adapt to it but it will be pain in the ass to !


Don't change the timing window of HR too please! it is really good to practice with the smaller timing window for people who want better accuracy
i agree on making the bonus much higher if ever, if you aim to value accuracy player

About combo game;

It seems to be too punishing as i saw it, scores such as 700k S, 570k S were seen, and even 100k-300k B score

i considered mania as chill game since combo doesn't as much, but with accuracy playing a bit more makes it better

for example someone plays a marathon map with 99% accuracy but shitmiss in different section of the map, it would end up not being a very good score i believe because he did not make good combo, i find it discouraging because he played very well accuracy but end up with score like 700-800k only

it has much to work on
W D Gaster
Score multipliers? Please no! Imo HD, FI and FL players dont want it! I am using HD only because I like it and its my preference. There is not actual reason to force it on other players.

Instead of adding multipliers you should rework Hidden. Static one, like that in Stepmania is way better and more comfortable to play. If someone wants to have bigger hidden - just give him option to make it bigger, but not smaller because it will be quite overpowered.

LN changes seems great, cool stuff for accuracy based players.
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