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posted
now that i think about it I think I lost a bet from early 2015 that om couldnt get worse.


shit
posted
If you guys think 7k players dominated the leaderboards, well fear no more! Now they can play with mods and be more ahead than ever!!!!!!11111
posted
lets take NS18 for an example in combo scoring.
for those who dont know the chart; its a jumpstream chart that repeats its patterns and slowly increases from 230 to 250 bpm with 2 short breaks. the end is the hardest part.

in scoreV2, lets say 2 players play this map.
player 1 misses 1 time on accidentally in the very middle, but thats his only miss.
player 2 isnt as good as player 1, and cant keep up with the 250 bpm at the end, and misses 5-8 times, but he combo'd the rest of the song.
assuming they had similar 200/100/50 counts, player 2s score would be *miles* ahead of player 1, despite playing much worse on the map.


also HD/SD/FL giving modifiers LMAO. people play with these to make the game EASIER TO READ FOR THEM. WHY WOULD THEY GIVE BONUS LMAO
I'm genuinely wondering if the devs behind scoreV2 have played a rhythm game before.
posted
lol why would they let somebody who actually plays the game and knows what theyre talking about develop the scoring
posted

Waltrusizer wrote:

lol why would they let somebody who actually plays the game and knows what theyre talking about develop the scoring
/thread
posted

smoogipooo wrote:

* Mods are back! NF/EZ/HT give 0.5x score multipliers and DT/HR/HD/FI/FL give 1.06x score multipliers.
omg no
posted
It's pretty pathetic that the StepMania-mains are just shitting on the idea and not even trying to offer any sort of legitimate criticism (exception: PIXL, you at least tried to voice a concern):

in scoreV2, lets say 2 players play this map.
player 1 misses 1 time on accidentally in the very middle, but thats his only miss.
player 2 isnt as good as player 1, and cant keep up with the 250 bpm at the end, and misses 5-8 times, but he combo'd the rest of the song.
assuming they had similar 200/100/50 counts, player 2s score would be *miles* ahead of player 1, despite playing much worse on the map.
I wanted to address you in the Discord regarding this (at least, I think it was you) but had to go off to lunch so I'm gonna do it here I guess:

With how the accuracy v2 formula works, 5-8 misses would cause a MASSIVE drop in score, especially if there's not a huge amount of notes. Even with 2000 notes, 5 to 8 misses would cause a reasonable dent on the accuracy side and would likely suffer a reasonable amount against the amount of points that the other player would have lost chopping the song right down the middle. Everyone is making it seem like a combo right in the middle is going to completely invalidate your score and make it so that it's impossible to come back -- the fact of the matter is, a miss right in the middle of the chart is still going to net you half of the combo scoring attribute, assuming that the chart has a constant pace -- for anyone who doesn't realize it, hasn't read yet, or refuses to read due to being completely blinded by a new score system, combo is only going to accommodate for 20% of the score. If a player simply misses and then recovers, their score will suffer, but not as much as you're making it out to be.

The inevitable solution for having a combo-based scoring system is going to require a curve that emphasizes building combo more than it does sustaining it - that is, putting a larger weight of the score for the combo bonus in the first x% of a song's max combo, and then resolving that curve over the remaining portion of the combo.

It's very clear that the weighting is harsh if you find some of the screenshots going around -- it does need to be addressed, as it is certainly not infallible. I don't agree with the modifier bonuses for HD/FL/FI, but I do feel like a slight orientation towards combo allows one of the more key elements of the game to be emphasized, and that's long notes. With the way the timing window has been shifted for V2, the mechanic is a lot more important to be proficient at - and it penalizes the fuck out of you if you can't do it (as it should).
posted
Guys, why we dont change the score system? pretty simple right, i dont see any reply on this saying that we should change the score system we have. you know, see all this commotion about the change... can we HEAR the players? if a massive amount of player saying that its NOT good its WORSE, we should not change right? or because of the minority we will change!?!? i dont think thats correct, just saying.

As a example, did someone complained about the Rate mods? (Not saying the Score multiplier, the mod itself)
See, when we LIKE we dont Complain.

So why changing the score system?
Like, changing the score system to a WORSE score system?

.
posted

Halogen- wrote:

With how the accuracy v2 formula works, 5-8 misses would cause a MASSIVE drop in score, especially if there's not a huge amount of notes. Even with 2000 notes, 5 to 8 misses would cause a reasonable dent on the accuracy side and would likely suffer a reasonable amount against the amount of points that the other player would have lost chopping the song right down the middle. Everyone is making it seem like a combo right in the middle is going to completely invalidate your score and make it so that it's impossible to come back -- the fact of the matter is, a miss right in the middle of the chart is still going to net you half of the combo scoring attribute, assuming that the chart has a constant pace -- for anyone who doesn't realize it, hasn't read yet, or refuses to read due to being completely blinded by a new score system, combo is only going to accommodate for 20% of the score. If a player simply misses and then recovers, their score will suffer, but not as much as you're making it out to be.

The inevitable solution for having a combo-based scoring system is going to require a curve that emphasizes building combo more than it does sustaining it - that is, putting a larger weight of the score for the combo bonus in the first x% of a song's max combo, and then resolving that curve over the remaining portion of the combo.

It's very clear that the weighting is harsh if you find some of the screenshots going around -- it does need to be addressed, as it is certainly not infallible. I don't agree with the modifier bonuses for HD/FL/FI, but I do feel like a slight orientation towards combo allows one of the more key elements of the game to be emphasized, and that's long notes. With the way the timing window has been shifted for V2, the mechanic is a lot more important to be proficient at - and it penalizes the fuck out of you if you can't do it (as it should).
20% is still massive for something that is as arbitrary as combo scoring. in a system where the difficulty structure of a chart is not taken into account, where you miss should be irrelevant. to put things in perspective, 20% is 200k. the difference between a 600k barely-passed-the-chart play and an 800k "I-can-get-97%-or-higher" play. (of course its near impossible to actually get 0 points from the combo factor but that's besides the point)

In many cases for vsrg charts the end is the hardest part of the file (due to both climax theory and stamina), yet in a system where combo is taken into account, the end is the place where, if you have to miss, it is most optimal to miss at. this system literally rewards doing bad on the hardest part

considering how most peoples top plays are either 1) low 90s on overrated maps, or 2) SDCB plays.
these types of scores are going to be EXTREMELY affected by this system. the low 90s type of scores will turn into fluke/mashed scores that got unnaturally high combo, and those SDCB scores will no longer be about improving accuracy on runs and now about keeping your combo as long as you can at any cost
posted
please remove score multiplier from HD/FL those mods literally make charts easier lol

I play nomod 90% of the time and still score higher with HD than without. giving vision mods a score bonus is kind of ridiculous.
for HR/DT it's fine imo, due to the 1mil fixed score style. it means you only gain anything from those after you already 940K+ score on the chart, which is a good point to already scrap nomod and go for DT

please remove HT/EZ scores completely. simply because those mods are lame. we don't need people getting PP from HT maniera that's zzz...
posted
Excuse me, but what happens to the old scores?
Do they get automatically updated or what?
posted
People are wondering about what would happen to old scores when this is officially implemented. Would there be a score wipe or a way to convert old scores into the ScoreV2 system?
posted
rip best pp System NotLikeThis


Edit: I'm drunk nvm.
posted

Ankanogradiel wrote:

rip best pp System NotLikeThis
This is score system, not pp system
posted

Ayaya wrote:

Ankanogradiel wrote:

rip best pp System NotLikeThis
This is score system, not pp system
yah misread sorry.
i don't think the old scores will be wiped tbh
more likely to be left as they are now. because it has happened before in osu standard if I remember well
posted
just gonna chill here and wait for v3 score system next drama.
posted
So about the ''COMBO'' score, and the Score multipliers.

First of all, COMBO is not the entire thing on mania, we dont want to suffer so much because we just missed 1 TIME in the freaking map.

Score V1 VS Score V2:

Score V2 99,41 2xmiss in ONE spot, the middle of the map: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5390253 855,415 (Ratio 6:1 of 300g)

Score V1 96,11 16xmiss in various spot: http://puu.sh/psLAa/1c0ec14641.jpg 875,531 (Ratio 1:1 of 300g)

... good right? of course not



And for the love of God, 1.06x multiplier is PRETTY big, you know i PASSED 1MILLION with 1:1 RATIO because of COMBO SCORE

~ https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5390366

Missed in the FINALS note, and STILL BREAKED THE 1MILLION
(Max combo: 1,507)
Please, consider that combo score is pretty ridiculous
posted
I do agree on the LN changes and some mod multipliers, but I don't agree on adding rewards on HD/FI/FL since it's just a visual mod which helps the players who don't do well with No Mod.
[*]The biggest thing I disagree on is the combo scoring. Combo should be given less or no reward at all since you can technically have worse accuracy and high combo and beat your previous score. Let's say you get a 95.2% S rank and then you have a score that's around a low 94% with less MAX and more 200s and 100s and misses near the end of the map, but you had a higher combo and that would have a higher score than the S rank which doesn't seem fair at all. I've also noticed in the testing that people intentionally missed in middle of combos but still had extremely high accuracy with 99%, but those with 96% and had very high combos completely demolished those scores. In my opinion, a Small reward should be given for having higher combo or FC such as having a 5% part of the score instead of the ludicrous 20%.
[*]HR should be reworked to and I'm fine with the 1.06x multiplier and if it were higher it would be better :)
[*]DT should have a higher Score multiplier rewarding the player more such as STD's 1.12x.
[*]Those rates would be nice to have, 100/110/120%... but would need DT to have a 1.25x multiplier to have each 10% be worth .05x multiplier.
e.g 1.1x rate/110% would give 1.05x and 1.4x rate/140% would give 1.2x
[*]HT rate should be given less reward as STD does. STD gives .30x , but Mania gives .5x which I hope gets lowered to .30x like in STD to give players less reward for playing Half Time.


In recap, good changes on the LNs, bad on adding multiplier to HD/FI/FL. Really bad on the combo scoring , HR could be better but is good so far, DT give more reward and should have rates and HT give less reward :) I am very glad a change is happening, but I hope it won't be a disaster. Fix these problems please! :D
posted
I'll voice that the combo portion should be lowered to 10 or 5%, or stay as it is with the current system.

20% is definitely too much and would make tournament matches less exciting than they already are, as it would create much larger score gaps than before (that's what I'm thinking at least). I have experienced losses of over 100k Score because of 1 miss in the wrong place.

Another option I see is setting a limit to the "combo bonus", similar to Taiko: You get more Score for a higher combo, but this is limited to something like 200-300 combo (or 10% of the total notes). That way, you can measure consistency without relying on a flawless play too much.

If this was to be implemented as the regular score mechanic, it would make Mania needlessly grindy. I think most people prefer the score system as it is.

LN changes are really good!

The mods aspect has been stressed out enough here.
posted
yes this seems kind of unfair. combo percentage should be a bit lower but not zero. The ideal for me would be a score system based on 90% accuracy 5% number of misses and 5% combo but that would require big changes.
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