SS requirement should be "only 300 and 300r" just like it is right now
This. In DDR, you get an AAA (SS) for getting a score of 990,000 (or 99% accuracy). You get this score if you get all perfects (non-shiny 300s) but no marvelous (rainbow 300s). I know the system here isn't exactly like the one in DDR, as getting all non-shiny 300s will net you a 98.36%, but we should lower the SS requirement to something similar. As previously stated, maybe add an SSS for a perfect 100%.Full Tablet wrote:
A better solution for the problem of SSs being too rare, is changing the requirements for a SS.
Unless you know, I dev like me submits a pull request for it and there is a backing to support the idea.Veracion wrote:
As i already said, it's highly unlikely that there will be an SSS added, since there is no equivalent in the other game modes.
Make score = acc. Score is arbitrary anyway, so it can be anything. Since it can be anything, make it accuracy. Problem solved.Cuber wrote:
Why are the grades even based on accuracy at all? If score is a measurement of performance in a map, obviously the grading should be based on that and that alone! All grades do in my mind anyways is provide goals that feel more real than reaching an arbitrary number. On this train of thought, PP should also be entirely based on song difficulty and score.
They added combo to tournaments because the results were to close for their comfort back in 2016. Their line of thought was to intensify any discrete imperfections a player may have in a play and to prevent a decided result mid map for better spectating experience. They failed to realize they needed to at least adjust the scale (zoom into a score range) so that more experienced player's scores had further distance between them rather than cherry pick misses. They also failed to realize that they cannot artificially create an undecided result mid map and have the score mirror the skill a player has. That is not skill but randomness.LastExceed wrote:
. And yes, adding combo to the score calculation is indeed a bad idea especially during tournaments where you only have 1 try. It's way too luck based.
this part is obviousAdri wrote:
S < SS < 1 000 000
i disagree with that part, all 300 is hard enough imoAdri wrote:
I think that an SS is deserved when you don't get 200s AND that you have a proper ratio between 300 and 300g, like 1:10 or 1:8.
IMO mania is about being good at mania, and being good at mania should be represented by score. (I mention below why pure acc isn't a good representation of performance.)LastExceed wrote:
Grades in mania are based on acc because mania IS all about acc. And yes, adding combo to the score calculation is indeed a bad idea especially during tournaments where you only have 1 try. It's way too luck based.
I really understand the idea of rewarding consistency and i support it, but you simply can't do it map by map. It would only make pp farming frustrating like in standard...
Pure accuracy is not a good scoring system, because it does not reward consistency, which is an important part of skill. For example, an otherwise SS play with 2 misses at the same time is more impressive than an otherwise SS play with 2 misses spread out in the map. Obviously, in this example, the difference isn't huge, but still, score should represent performance on a map, and I stand with my position that pure accuracy is not the way to do this.abraker wrote:
Make score = acc. Score is arbitrary anyway, so it can be anything. Since it can be anything, make it accuracy. Problem solved.Cuber wrote:
Why are the grades even based on accuracy at all? If score is a measurement of performance in a map, obviously the grading should be based on that and that alone! All grades do in my mind anyways is provide goals that feel more real than reaching an arbitrary number. On this train of thought, PP should also be entirely based on song difficulty and score.
Cuber wrote:
Pure accuracy is not a good scoring system, because it does not reward consistency, which is an important part of skill. For example, an otherwise SS play with 2 misses at the same time is more impressive than an otherwise SS play with 2 misses spread out in the map. Obviously, in this example, the difference isn't huge, but still, score should represent performance on a map, and I stand with my position that pure accuracy is not the way to do this.
abraker wrote:
Ofc there is an argument about 65% FC VS 98% with a high miss-hit ratio, but there is no clear cut answer to which is more impressive
Jeez that's just adding onto like frankenstein. This can be mitigated if the acc curve were a bit steeper such that a 99% would be considered as hard as the combo+acc equivalent you have in mind. By making the acc curve steeper, you are intensifying areas where the player is likely to do poor on or miss, much like combo without the shit combo based scoring comes with. And there is no need to adjust miss windows unless you think current ones need adjusting.Cuber wrote:
While writing this, I came up with a (probably stupid) idea. The reason I'm not a fan of using combo for consistency is because it is possible to mash through hard patterns and keep combo. Also, I don't think that 1 miss should affect score too much. I mentioned that I like the system of using bonus score. Why don't we make the worth of a note (at least in the consistency portion of score) equal (scaled appropiately obviously) to your current health? Obviously, changes to health would need to be done, to punish any judgement less than a 300. However, maybe with a bunch of tuning, this might work. I'm probably just an idiot tho lol
lose more accuracy for a miss/50/100/200. And berfore anyone cries, while it's like HR/higher OD, this adjustment should be independent of what the miss window is (don't change miss window when adjusting this).johnmedina999 wrote:
By "making the accuracy curve steeper", do you mean we should lose more accuracy for a miss/50/100/200, or do you mean that we should lose more accuracy for a miss as we miss more (e.g., the second miss is more hurtful than the first)?
Uhm sorry, but I still doubt they would even consider it.abraker wrote:
Unless you know, I dev like me submits a pull request for it and there is a backing to support the idea.Veracion wrote:
As i already said, it's highly unlikely that there will be an SSS added, since there is no equivalent in the other game modes.
Interesting suggestion, that doesn't seem too bad cause it'd cause people to learn patterns better. Seems to be getting in the direction of bms / stepmania, where accuracy is more important than osu!mania's current system.abraker wrote:
If you convert acc to score out of 1M as it is right now, 960,000 and 990,000 (96% and 99%) will be a very small gap and is also where most decent plays fall to. Transforming that same gap to 650,000 and 990,000 would allow to highlight skill more clearly. Yes anyone who gets less than an S gets wrecked, but then again you shouldn't be surprised at such results when you play maps out of your skill range.
lmao yes.Veracion wrote:
only slightly less playing experience than the people developing scorev2 xdVeracion wrote:
only slightly less playing experience than the people developing scorev2 xd
+1Cuber wrote:
I know this isn't super relevant here, but please make grades based off score, not accuracy. If score is how you assess the performance of a play, use that for the grade.
I was so relieved when i read thisSmoogipooo (on reddit) wrote:
Combo scoring: I don't remember if I mentioned this publicly (I thought I did but can't find the post), but I want to try accuracy-only scoring.
If SS is based on 1 000 000 score, hardly anyone would get an SS on anything past 4*, and past 5* it would be virtually impossible.Adri wrote:
+1Cuber wrote:
I know this isn't super relevant here, but please make grades based off score, not accuracy. If score is how you assess the performance of a play, use that for the grade.
One of the reasons why SS makes no sense is this
That's what I'm saying. Cuber's idea would either go with this or completely destroy it, depending on what the SS requirement is.LastExceed wrote:
why not just keep the SS requirement at "300 and 300r only" as it is right now?
you got it wrong. My idea is to make SS completely unrelated to acc. As long as you have 300 and 300r only you get the SS no matter your acc. which means you could theoretically get an SS with 98.36% (everything 300 and no 300r)johnmedina999 wrote:
But again, you lose accuracy now with 300, so the accuracy SS requirement would have to be adjusted.
LastExceed wrote:
you got it wrong. My idea is to make SS completely unrelated to acc. As long as you have 300 and 300r only you get the SS no matter your acc. which means you could theoretically get an SS with 98.36% (everything 300 and no 300r)
Basically what I mean is that accuracy should be 100% entirely completely fully wholly irrelevant. In everything (except for contributing to score).johnmedina999 wrote:
If SS is based on 1 000 000 score, hardly anyone would get an SS on anything past 4*, and past 5* it would be virtually impossible.
And if it's not based on 1 000 000 (say it's based on 990 000 or something similar), keep in mind that accuracy now decreases with 300 compared to 300g, just as you get less score with 300 as opposed to 300g. Accuracy affects score, so minuscule mistakes would be a lot more punishing than before.
The only way grades based on score would work is if score is 100% based on accuracy (like DDR), and even then the grades would be based on accuracy by extension.
out of curiousity, why do compare the score to accuracy? do you think that accuracy is the perfect scoring system?tatatat wrote:
Honestly the ratio of combo to accuracy in score should be 0% to 100%. When I get a 96% on a map and its still a lower score than a 91% that's just stupid. Oh yeah and visual mods shouldn't give increased score, I know people who ONLY play with them, and are actually worse without them.
Those who prefer accuracy over combo don't care as much for the consistency element. Only frustration comes out of retrying so often to get a perfect run. It's better to just do the same when attempting that 99.9X% whenever you are ready for it instead of retrying it over 1000 times until you get that 80% FC.Cuber wrote:
out of curiousity, why do compare the score to accuracy? do you think that accuracy is the perfect scoring system?tatatat wrote:
Honestly the ratio of combo to accuracy in score should be 0% to 100%. When I get a 96% on a map and its still a lower score than a 91% that's just stupid. Oh yeah and visual mods shouldn't give increased score, I know people who ONLY play with them, and are actually worse without them.
It needs more work tbhjohnmedina999 wrote:
Do we have a date when this is going to roll out? Is it going to roll out with osu laser?