osu!mania ScoreV2 live!

posted
Total Posts
476
show more
Meseki

numbermaniac wrote:

How do the map scoreboards work if most people are playing with ScoreV1 but those with Cutting Edge have V2?
V2 scoring is only available as an option in multiplayer.

Also, The V2 scoring for osu!mania is available in the Stable version right now.
lim38
Only 2pts separation gap for only the difference between 2 300 xD
Halogen-
that's

a thing
Ayaya
make sense, 1 point for each note :^)
Todestrieb
If It's HR and 2 max = 2 points, Sounds of Summer have 1407 objects, only 1.407/1.100.000 scores is rewarded for the MAXs? >:(
Tidek

lim38 wrote:

Only 2pts separation gap for only the difference between 2 300 xD
Combo, lim got more 300/200 on <400combo because of score multiplier
Kempie
Consider the following scores from the group stages:


Cheetose has a 28.6% higher MAX/300 ratio compared to WindyS. Cheetose's score should be a fair bit higher, but somehow WindyS got a higher score??? Also notice how just a couple of 200s and 2 misses create a pretty large gap between juankristal and the entire Korean team. There are many more examples like this in the group stages. Players are barely rewarded for significantly better MAX/300 ratios, while players getting just a couple of 200s/100s/50s are severely punished. This has one very serious implication in the MWC4K: teams are severely punished for having a (relatively) bad player on their team, but not proportionally awarded for having really good players on their time.

Without changing ScoreV2 too much, having MAX's included in the accuracy component would make most sense. Thinking about it, completely ignoring the most important judgement of accuracy in the accuracy component of ScoreV2 is more than a little odd.

Tidek wrote:

lim38 wrote:

Only 2pts separation gap for only the difference between 2 300 xD
Combo, lim got more 300/200 on <400combo because of score multiplier
Can we please get rid of the combo component? These kind of wonky differences are going to be a thing as long as combo is involved in the scoring system.
Yuudachi-kun
The second thing is a bit too much to ask for since they've already decided that that's going to be a major feature and that's final.
Kempie

Khelly wrote:

The second thing is a bit too much to ask for since they've already decided that that's going to be a major feature and that's final.
Is it still too much to ask for when this major feature is inherently flawed? Because this clearly is the case with the combo component, as can be seen in some of the scores posted in this thread. The scoring system's combo aspect can most definitely be improved upon without completely removing it, but it's always going to be susceptible to producing undesirable scores.

I want ScoreV2 to be the BestThingEver™ as much as everyone else here, but I'm pretty sure osu!mania is even better off with the old bonus score compared to ScoreV2's combo component. If the devs have decided to go with it anyway (have they even stated this?), then that's a pity.

/rant
-Squishy
Has anyone talked about combo as being a mod?
Just like how perfect and sudden death are mods, combo is pretty much just the more lenient form of sudden death where you don't die when you combo break. It could give like a score multiplier or something so people have an incentive to use it.
So on a song that is really hard to FC because of some dense minijack or burst that only a few people can get will be much more rewarding for those who can FC and won't be discouraged if their full combo was beaten by some better accuracy player that completely missed that one impossible section.
This would make it more appealing for tourneys as missing a note midway basically ruins your potential from scoring an even remotely decent score while getting a full combo will be very rewarding.
abraker

Squishykorean wrote:

...
As a mod, yes please
Full Tablet

Squishykorean wrote:

Has anyone talked about combo as being a mod?
Just like how perfect and sudden death are mods, combo is pretty much just the more lenient form of sudden death where you don't die when you combo break. It could give like a score multiplier or something so people have an incentive to use it.
So on a song that is really hard to FC because of some dense minijack or burst that only a few people can get will be much more rewarding for those who can FC and won't be discouraged if their full combo was beaten by some better accuracy player that completely missed that one impossible section.
This would make it more appealing for tourneys as missing a note midway basically ruins your potential from scoring an even remotely decent score while getting a full combo will be very rewarding.
What do you mean by combo mod? What would it do?
abraker

Full Tablet wrote:

What do you mean by combo mod? What would it do?
He means to have options on which scoring method to use. The combo mod in this sense would use the combo based scoring.
Full Tablet

abraker wrote:

Full Tablet wrote:

What do you mean by combo mod? What would it do?
He means to have options on which scoring method to use. The combo mod in this sense would use the combo based scoring.
In that case, wouldn't it better if both scoring methods were calculated simultaneously for each play, and both values are recorded in the play? In leaderboards, people would have an option to sort by combo scoring or accuracy score.

Accuracy score should be the main value used for the rest of the performance and ranking system (as long there is only one ranking based on the one-dimensional pp value of each player), since the count of the judgments is a more reliable statistic to base inferences about the skill of a player, compared to the length of string of non-misses (mixing both by adding two different formulas together doesn't make it better than a pure accuracy-based formula either, the quality of the formula used for overall score increases the lower the weight of the combo portion of it is).

That said, basing the accuracy score on the current Accuracy Percentage formula is not good either. Accuracy Percentage underweights the importance of Rainbows over regular 300s, and overweights the importance of 200s over 100s/50s/Misses.
-Squishy

Full Tablet wrote:

Accuracy score should be the main value used for the rest of the performance and ranking system (as long there is only one ranking based on the one-dimensional pp value of each player), since the count of the judgments is a more reliable statistic to base inferences about the skill of a player, compared to the length of string of non-misses (mixing both by adding two different formulas together doesn't make it better than a pure accuracy-based formula either, the quality of the formula used for overall score increases the lower the weight of the combo portion of it is).
"Skill" isn't all about accuracy. Although most people agree it should be the largest factor, players have a variety of other skills which some focus more than others and that should deserve some acknowledgement in their score. In this case, it would be for players with the speed/finger dexterity to hit those few extra notes in the hardest part of a map to keep their full combo compared to accuracy players who will skim through that section and perfect everything else on the map.
Full Tablet

Squishykorean wrote:

"Skill" isn't all about accuracy. Although most people agree it should be the largest factor, players have a variety of other skills which some focus more than others and that should deserve some acknowledgement in their score. In this case, it would be for players with the speed/finger dexterity to hit those few extra notes in the hardest part of a map to keep their full combo compared to accuracy players who will skim through that section and perfect everything else on the map.
The thing is, combo is not a good way to measure the aspect of skill you mention either.

For measuring the ability of being able to hit hard notes without missing, miss count is a better statistic than a score based on combo.

If you want to isolate speed/dexterity skill from overall accuracy skill, ideally, you should be able to calculate 2 different scores for each aspect of skill, and have two different leaderboards and rankings for the same plays.
juankristal
So yeah, accuracy is the main value in both score v1 and v2. Combo is important as your score drops if you miss, whats the point of having a "combo mod" then? I dont really get it.

If you are good at doing combos but your acc is really bad why should you win against a good accuracy with some missees? Into a level where everyone misses then yeah, sure, but adding the combo mod wont change stuff imo.
Kempie

Squishykorean wrote:

Full Tablet wrote:

...
"Skill" isn't all about accuracy. Although most people agree it should be the largest factor, players have a variety of other skills which some focus more than others and that should deserve some acknowledgement in their score. In this case, it would be for players with the speed/finger dexterity to hit those few extra notes in the hardest part of a map to keep their full combo compared to accuracy players who will skim through that section and perfect everything else on the map.
What you (and I) want is better achieved by increasing the significance of a single miss. Accuracy players will be harshly (but fairly) punished for missing, and speed/dexterity players still stand a chance with their lower accuracy and higher combos. If ScoreV2 were to drop the combo component and go this route, we would have a scoring system that...:
  1. still rewards players for keeping their combo.
  2. treats x consequent misses the same as x isolated misses (ScoreV2 punishes isolated misses more severely)
  3. cannot produce broken scores where similar performances have unexplainable differences, because relatively more 200s were attained at <400 combo.
  4. can be significantly simpler to understand and implement.


This isn't some magical fairlytale. I've mentioned MIGS scoring several times in this thread, which achieves exactly this without combo.
Ayaya

Kempie wrote:

If ScoreV2 were to drop the combo component and go this route, we would have a scoring system that...:
  1. rewards players for keeping their combo.
Kempie

Ayaya wrote:

Kempie wrote:

If ScoreV2 were to drop the combo component and go this route, we would have a scoring system that...:
  1. rewards players for keeping their combo.
When all you do is remove the combo component, misses aren't sufficiently punished for, i.e. keeping combo (not missing) isn't as big of a deal as it should be. By making misses more punishing, you are "rewarding" (more like not punishing) players that do not miss, and thus keep their combo.

It sounds confusing because it's sort off tackling the same problem in the exact opposite way. You're not actually rewarding players for keeping high combos, you're just upping the punishment of misses. Fewer misses generally equal higher combo, with edge cases like FC'ing a song and then missing the last 5 notes being an exception to that rule. Unsurprisingly, these edge cases also produce funny scores in ScoreV1/V2, but not in MIGS scoring for example.
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply