sakuraburst - cherry blossoms explode across the dying horiz

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Mint
01:20:903 (3) - I did wish you changed this one though, because the buzz indicators are now covered up by slider head + the anchor points after the buzz, whereas with the other sliders you can still see a little nudge http://puu.sh/qRJDF/d2218ff203.jpg / http://puu.sh/qRJGC/96f4ec18d0.jpg

Also, the .osb still contains code of shockwave.png, if you care.

However, knowing you - and seeing how many times these sliders have been discussed - you will probably not change this at all. Interesting to see that some things can be disregarded in some cases...

Congrats! I hope there can be a drama-free discussion, if there will be any in the first place.
Topic Starter
Shiirn
Oh, I actually forgot that I did remove shockwave.png. The sliders in question generally ended up a result of "well, even if you can't see them, the buzz in question is inconsequential to gameplay". They're purely visual.
fieryrage
so wait why are there brackets around the tags
_DT3
Well, gratz on the qualify, Shiirn, creative as always!
Cryptic

fieryrage wrote:

so wait why are there brackets around the tags
It doesn't affect searching for them, I believe Shiirn did it to help segregate the names relevant to the map from the tags relevant to the song.

Glad to see you found another BN, Shiirn. Congrats!
Topic Starter
Shiirn
The brackets are there because they are in the title of the song but don't appear even when i tried to put them in the song information. I wanted them somewhere in case people just quote the entire song name. They're independent characters that are independently searchable. It's weird.
Monstrata
03:35:326 (1,2) - With the way you arranged them, as well as the way those green lines are placed in timeline, it really looks like you intended for them to be 1/4 longer, ending at 03:36:191 - and 03:37:153 - .
03:39:941 (4) - This sounds too early... assuming you're following the woodwind instrument. Might need an offset shift here...
Side
sorry shiirn but as soon as I got to the first buzzy slider my PC automatically deleted system32, sent the downandup virus through all my wireless devices connected to my home network and changed my wallpapers to a tiled 320x320 free harambe picture. I feel these instances are related to that slider thus this map should be unranked :^)
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Monstrata wrote:

03:35:326 (1,2) - With the way you arranged them, as well as the way those green lines are placed in timeline, it really looks like you intended for them to be 1/4 longer, ending at 03:36:191 - and 03:37:153 - . They were originally ending on the blue ticks, but this added an additional slidertick that was invisible and caused players to break very often. I shortened the sliders and never carried over the 5% volume slider endings because A) I wasn't the one who 'silenced' them, and I prefer slider endings to have volume levels equal to their start (exceptions apply, obviously) and then B) forgot to outright delete the green ticks. It'd make the entire section 25%, but oh well.
03:39:941 (4) - This sounds too early... assuming you're following the woodwind instrument. Might need an offset shift here... IF you'll look at sakurabursts handy documentation and construction guide he did on this very song (xilver has a link in his map, i'm a bit busy to link it here), you'll see that he didn't actually use any offset changes. This might be a little bit off, but it's a very lenient slider head.

Side wrote:

sorry shiirn but as soon as I got to the first buzzy slider my PC automatically deleted system32, sent the downandup virus through all my wireless devices connected to my home network and changed my wallpapers to a tiled 320x320 free harambe picture. I feel these instances are related to that slider thus this map should be unranked :^)
sounds like a personal problem
Monstrata
He said he just copied the entire sample from the pokemon movie where lugia appears lol. I don't think made any adjustments to the timing since it sounds off xP. (also on the video it looks like the .wav isn't synced to the track to begin with).

The slider is lenient of course, but idk... it sounds like it's off by at least a 1/4 tick, like 03:40:037 - sounds like a better place to begin the slider.
sahuang
The sliders that change sv....they are quite controversial tbh
All rules are exactly that: RULES. They are NOT guidelines and may NOT be broken under ANY circumstance.
Topic Starter
Shiirn
The entire point, that has been discussed by dozens of mappers for months, with many years of mapping experience, is that they do not impact gameplay enough to be worth considering "changing slider velocity". They are 170ms duration buzzes. The average human reaction time to visual stimulus is 270ms. This is why AR11 is so incredibly difficult - you reach approach rates that are literally faster than human beings can, on average, react to.

What does this mean? This means that, given absolutely no forewarning whatsoever (e.g. the bulges are completely hidden and you have NO IDEA the sliders are about to vibrate), in pretty much every circumstance the sliders will have finished their vibration before the brain even realizes it's happened.

Thus, the question simply falls to "does this cause an unfair or confusing aspect for the player?" The answer is an absolute NO. There are no nearby ticks, the velocity change is insignificant, and the slider continues along what looks to be the normal path. There is no gameplay situation in which someone can possibly break because of the sliders, either, because as mentioned the vibration is over by the time the player even notices it's happened. All that's left is noticing "Oh hey those sliders vibrated during the bass distortion effect that's real fuckin' neato" and that's the impact I want delivered.


If you have any sort of argument against the concepts I listed above, feel free to bring them up.


Rules are created to avoid certain events from happening. Thus, they need to be worded in as generalized ways as possible to prevent those events from being possible. These sliders bend (or break) the rules as written, but do not actually cause any rule-breaking effect on the player.


But if people are here just to give me shit because I've given people shit in the past, then you're wasting your time.
Stjpa

sahuang wrote:

The sliders that change sv....they are quite controversial tbh
All rules are exactly that: RULES. They are NOT guidelines and may NOT be broken under ANY circumstance.
They are allowed with the new upcoming RC, maybe read them now. The only things that are controversial right now are the sliderpaths themselves.
Monstrata
Stjpa - the new RC isn't in effect yet

Shiirn - There are a lot of unrankable elements that do not actually cause any rule-breaking effect on the player. That doesn't mean we can just use them and rank them.
Topic Starter
Shiirn
{Citation needed}
Irreversible
I just have one simple question.

If something isn't allowed by the rules, why is this approved? As you said yourself, the new RC isn't in effect yet, so this theoretically is unrankable. 10/10
Topic Starter
Shiirn
Because the rules exist to stop the players from having an unfair experience whilst playing this game. Ideally, they are as nonrestrictive as possible as far as allowing creativity for both the mapper and the player experience. It's better to blanket out some edge cases to make sure you've stopped most, or all, possible ways of treating the player unfairly.

In other words, rules, as a rule, should be "overkill". They should cover more than they need to to get their job done. But there are edge cases where the rules are broken, but the area they're intended to cover has not been breached.

Anyone who's talked to me before has probably heard me say "There are exceptions to every rule", and I believe this map qualifies as an exception. Is that selfish? That's up to other people to tell. I'd personally allow these sliders from anyone else.
Ascendance
Hey cool, my first post as a non-nominator!

Ranking Criteria wrote:

All rules are exactly that: RULES. They are NOT guidelines and may NOT be broken under ANY circumstance.
I could write 10 paragraphs about how if I have a song that rewinds backwards, I can use a burai slider that goes inwards on itself because it "fits the song" and "should be intuitive", but realistically it breaks the rules :)

Also, as for the "new rule" that was supposed to save this mapset this weekend, well.. I don't think this falls under the new RC either.

Proposed RC wrote:

Every slider must have a clear and visible path to follow from start to end. Sliders which overlap themselves in a way that makes any section unreadable or ambiguous cannot be used, such as burai sliders and hold sliders without straightforward slider borders. Perfectly overlapping slider bodies must give enough time to fully read each slider’s path.
As nominators, you are allowed to decline Shiirn's requests to nominate this map. This isn't a form of bravery for the sake of the community, it's a form of you ranking something that is explicitly unrankable. Just a reminder in case people didn't read the BNG Rules



Then again, I couldn't have expected you to read those if you couldn't read the Ranking Criteria that disallows these kinds of things. Good luck!
Topic Starter
Shiirn
Burai sliders present an unfair expectation towards the player because they are not visually recognizable at all and can cause the player to become confused even when they know it's a burai. I've already explained why these sliders do not do that.

If you can provide a more valid set of reasoning than simply repeating "But rules are rules, man!" like a decrepit parrot, I'll be happy to discuss them with you. But otherwise, I don't think you'll provide anything to this discussion that hasn't already been brought up. These sliders have been discussed by several dozen people, and each of the qualifying BNs independently came to the conclusion that they believed they should be given a chance.

I'm not exactly going to fall for your logical fallacies like you may think everyone should.
Ascendance
Why would you want to break the rules anyways for any other reason to be an incompetent edgelord? You aren't a god, Shiirn. It's about time you got brought back down to Earth like the rest of us and realize that you have to follow the same rules as the rest of us. No exceptions.
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