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[added] More accurate mouse sensitivity

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +45
Topic Starter
AlMod
So there it is.
Now it is limited to one number after the decimal point. How about to make it more accurate? Like distance snap in editor - while Shift is pressed it can be more accurate (two numbers after d.p.)

P.S. Really, I can't set up my sensitivity well - 1.4 is too big, 1.3 is too small, so that's why this post was written
Zekira
Hm, seems pretty usable to me, at least it's not as absurd as my request of being able to adjust UO to as accurate as 0.1x, lol
ziin
1.3x is too small, 1.4x is too big? Put those math skills to work!

x=7/11 on my computer.

So lets say you want 1.35x:
1.35(7/11)=1.6(y)
5.9/11=y, which is close to 6/11. Set your windows value to 6/11, and your osu value to 1.6x and you'll get 1.37x

Or you know, you could get a real mouse which has a customizable DPI.
Topic Starter
AlMod
This way is good only for osu!, but then i've lost speed in Windows
ziin

AlMod wrote:

This way is good only for osu!, but then i've lost speed in Windows
And this is terrible? Why do you need such precision in windows anyway? I think you need a mouse which supports game profiles.
Topic Starter
AlMod

ziin wrote:

And this is terrible? Why do you need such precision in windows anyway? I think you need a mouse which supports game profiles.
Your opinion requires spending money, and mine are not.
ziin
I'm certain with a little bit of research you could find out how to get profiles for your mouse, as setpoint does this, and likely most other mouse drivers have some form of profile system.

Also my "solution" involves an extremely minor inconvenience outside of osu. When I use a different computer, the mouse is completely different, and it doesn't bother me tremendously. Most $2 mice aren't 1600 DPI. Or you know, you could get used to using 1.4x.
Charles445
I already thought you could until I saw this thread.
I don't know how hard it is to make the sensitivity and slider work like distance snapping does, but it would be pretty useful. Fine tuning mouse sensitivity would really help people get into the game.
Hadez
I totally agree with this, +-0.1x on the sens is really a lot. Some say that you can fix your sens by DPI and Windows, but thats totally annoying and imprecise with the multiplier that windows and DPI have, (x2 x0.5 x0.25, etc.) another example is DPI differences, 400 DPI + 4.0x vs 1600 DPI + 1.0x are totally DIFFERENT, the tracking change a lot on straight and curve movement. I can think on 2 ways the improve this.

1. Add a more precise sensitivity bar. (0.01 intervals for example)
or
2. Add a Sensitivity box to put the sensitivity values by hand, with restrictions obviously, 0.1 to 4.0x and no more than 3 decimals or something like that.
(Just like any FPS game)

Cheers, Hadez.
Mesita
as a mouse player i have to say this would be very helpful.
- k Aim -
the "genius mouse club" users doesnt needs this kind of utilities, because as the club that we are our mouses have the unique special abbility to autoregule the sensibility at the less aproppiate moment :lol: :lol: :lol: :i want a trollface emoticon

cya sochao
Hadez
please learn about mouse and DPI by EXPERIENCE first. Not by commercial comments from razer or whatever.
Hadez

ziin wrote:

1.3x is too small, 1.4x is too big? Put those math skills to work!

x=7/11 on my computer.

So lets say you want 1.35x:
1.35(7/11)=1.6(y)
5.9/11=y, which is close to 6/11. Set your windows value to 6/11, and your osu value to 1.6x and you'll get 1.37x

Or you know, you could get a real mouse which has a customizable DPI.
Windows multiplier is exponencial not linear below 6, and + x0.5 for 7+ values, 6 = x1, 5 = x0.5, 4 = x0.25, 7 = x1.5, 8 = x2.0, etc.
sk1ll
Agreed
qlum
just trick some in combination with windows it can be quite accurately tuned I use it myself I don't use the dpi settings for this purpos as I always want to max out dpi for the theoretical benefit it brings.
but really I don't think it would hurt anyone if you could fine-tune in the ini
nVidi4x
i think if we could manage sensitivity with numbers would be easier for everyone.
For example: from 0.24 to 10.4 would be awesome
Hadez

nVidi4x wrote:

i think if we could manage sensitivity with numbers would be easier for everyone.
For example: from 0.24 to 10.4 would be awesome
i luv u
Neruell
As said above already, Osu! AND Windows allow to change sensitivity which is more than enough because with a proper adjustment you can set that "0.0xx" if you want. It works with a "sh*tty" mouse and with a high end too. The reason why people don't use windows for setting that is because they are too lazy to alt+tab all the time and checking the mouse sensitivity. Anyway changing mouse sensitivity doesn't mean that you will automaticly improve your play skills. Same as active area of the tablet. It all depends on the habit of how you play. Although if it is "easy" to implement then I don't have any complains about it.
Mesita

Neruell wrote:

As said above already, Osu! AND Windows allow to change sensitivity which is more than enough because with a proper adjustment you can set that "0.0xx" if you want. It works with a "sh*tty" mouse and with a high end too. The reason why people don't use windows for setting that is because they are too lazy to alt+tab all the time and checking the mouse sensitivity. Anyway changing mouse sensitivity doesn't mean that you will automaticly improve your play skills. Same as active area of the tablet. It all depends on the habit of how you play. Although if it is "easy" to implement then I don't have any complains about it.
so wrong.... windows has a default accel implemented on itself, so changing the windows sensitivity changes the overall sensitivity in a non linear scale. Therefore the solution you give is useless. I agree, most people are really lazy, but im not, so i do know what i'm talking about, and as people are asking sometimes a little change on the mouse sensitivity can make a huge diference in your playing style.
Karuta-_old_1
As far as laser, optical mouses are concerned it will be a big help to people who can tell the difference.

So, I support.
Hadez
Up, and btw, nVidi4x, Mesita and I have been high-level competitive gamers on different games for years, we know why we say Osu! MUST have a more precise sentivity bar or numerical input.
Jalatiphra
i do not need^^ , but i spend around 100 hours getting my settings right, so i suppose it wont hurt :)
Shadow Fear
This doesn't sound that bad..
i usu 1.4x but too sensitive fot me..just use 1.1x...Lol
ziin

Hadez wrote:

Up, and btw, nVidi4x, Mesita and I have been high-level competitive gamers on different games for years, we know why we say Osu! MUST have a more precise sentivity bar or numerical input.
As a high-level competitive gamer, you should understand that hardware is more important than software. If you can't get an appropriate multiplier using two separate controls you should just get used to the closest approximation or ask for help from someone who knows math, or just guess and check.
Light Beam
just try to scale all the notes when your done around 0.95 if your using 1.4
Parog
Are you guys kidding me? The ONLY thing that Osu could be doing that affects your accuracy is if you do not have "Enable Precision Mode" set to 1 / ON / Enabled / Checked whatever you call it. viewtopic.php?p=765098#p765098 See this for more info.




Set that shit to 1.0 in osu, and bring your windows speed up to whatever speed you'd like to have. It's probably set to something stupid right now and that's why it's doing that.

You think this is worse than the setup you have right now? At ANY DPI ( Higher DPI and Lower DPI are affected in a different way ) having a multiplier to your raw mouse input ( Mouse movement After windows sets it's original speed, to the exception of DPI settings in the mouse, which isn't really a multiplier anyway, and speed in that same software. ) is a bad thing.

I feel kind of bad shutting down your idea completely... But there's really no sense to letting you think the mouse sensitivity behavior osu uses is not accurate and it should be changed because of your specific issue as it's occurring because of your hardware/setup.


I'm going to explain why you're having issues but I must ask you to read this quote ( I'm not exactly sober and explaining it shorty is hard. ) It's about DPI, polling rate ( Applicable to USB mouse and not so much PS2 ) and mouse multipliers and it's effects. Mid-high DPI mice are really cheap btw. I'm serious, anyone trying to play games that requires accuracy, using a low DPI mouse, multiple mouse speed multiplier ( Game speed multiplier or not using "Use windows speed" in your mouse software means you're losing a TON on accuracy. Think you're good now? Oh man...
SPOILER
High DPI will go unnoticed if you just swing the mouse around.
On the other hand, you should be able to see differences in DPI when you attempt to aim your cursor at a very small area (for example, a single pixel on the screen)

I'll try to explain some principles behind DPI but I think this test/visualization alone will make you understand the gist of it.
--> open MS Paint, select the pencil tool and draw circles with both of your setups. Then compare your result to mine and see if there are any similarities.
http://pic0.picsorlinks.com/ph_or_94422_7a986be.png
(I used the Logitech MX Revolution for the first graph and the G700 for the second.)
Now, in case you want to hear some details let me explain shortly. Both mice use the same cursor speed.
7000 DPI (estimated; in my/this case) would be necessary (for both mice) to draw a completely smooth line at this cursor speed. The "edgy" pattern on the first graph (800 DPI) occurs due to the fact that 800 DPI can not keep up with my cursor speed and pixels are "skipped" as a result. MS Paint connects those "skipped parts" with a straight line.
(Note that "cursor speed" and "sensitivity" are not the same. Cursor speed = DPI value + sensitivity)

In other words, high DPI is useless if the cursor speed you use is very low. I could, for example, lower the sensitivity of my 800 DPI mouse enough to make it draw smooth lines. Increasing DPI only enables you to keep drawing smooth lines while increasing your cursor speed. As long as you don't add sensitivity and only go by your DPI value, no pixels should be skipped in the test above. (=perfectly smooth line)

Okay, my explanation ended up a little chaotic, but I'm too lazy to rewrite it Tongue
Long story short:
Mouse that only moves by DPI => doesn't skip pixels (good)
Mouse that has sensitivity added => skips pixels (bad)
While problem being: The lower the DPI the lower the cursor speed (and I, for example, need high cursor speeds Tongue)

As far as polling rate is concerned, it indicates the amount of "information exchange" done between your mouse and the computer within a certain time span. 1000 GHz suggests that your mouse reports its pointer position four times as often as a mouse with 250 GHz polling within the same amount of time elapsed. You can compare it to the FPS of a game if you will.

Still don't get what I'm hinting at?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_dpi Should help you.

If all else fails this will; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_rage


Here's the list of things that will impair your mouse accuracy, with short examples next to them. The more of those examples you combine together, the worse the accuracy will be.

Keep in mind I am in the process to writing a guide I can't talk about too much that is pertinent to mouse accuracy and this is one of the subsections. ( Yes, I said sub section, everything is detailed to make sure anyone who take the time to learn all of it is pretty much assured to be successful in "doing what the guide is for" It's something I will be selling. That may revolutionize things I can't talk about. ) I am planning to bring a LOT of traffic to OSU if I can work something out with peppy ( I'm not looking for an incentive for a referral, I believe the game should be exposed more. )

IMPORTANT: Reading the list bellow constitutes an agreement between you and me to use this information for personal use only. You may not materially / financially profit from this information without asking me first. You may not use this information for non-profit without giving me credit. Thank you.
SPOILER
  1. Low DPI Mouse
  2. Using a low grade mouse surface or no mouse surface
  3. Using a mouse that uses friction points using less than desirable friction material. ( Rubber, plain plastic... )
  4. Using a mouse that doesn't have clean friction points.
  5. Using a mouse survace that using less than desirable friction material. ( Rubber, fabric, your desk, anything that isn't even, anything that can have a fold or bump in it. ) Keep in mind that high DPI is also affected by this, but high DPI Multiplier ( Mouse speed settings ) which is required with a low DPI mouse unless you don't mind moving your mouse a meter across your desk for each hitcircles, will be a lot worse than using high DPI and lower speed because of this.
  6. Using a mouse surface that isn't clean.
  7. Using anything more than "Windows Mouse Speed" as a multiplier, Osu! not being exempt from this one.
  8. Using "Balistic" mouse acceleration ( Mouse acceleration has MULTIPLE terms, most of them wrongly used on purpose as a marketing ploy. For the sake of being precise; The change in speed of the cursor over time while the mouse movement is constant. ) Operating systems sometimes apply acceleration, referred to as "ballistics", to the motion reported by the mouse. For example, versions of Windows prior to Windows XP doubled reported values above a configurable threshold, and then optionally doubled them again above a second configurable threshold. These doublings applied separately in the X and Y directions, resulting in very nonlinear response.
  9. Using any ( I haven't found any that doesn't use it like explained in the spoiler. ) software enabled acceleration. For simple software, when the mouse starts to move, the software will count the number of "counts" or "mickeys" received from the mouse and will move the cursor across the screen by that number of pixels (or multiplied by a rate factor, typically less than 1). The cursor will move slowly on the screen, having a good precision. When the movement of the mouse passes the value set for "threshold", the software will start to move the cursor more quickly, with a greater rate factor. Usually, the user can set the value of the second rate factor by changing the "acceleration" setting.
  10. Using different X and Y axis settings.
  11. NOT USING "Enable Mouse Precision" in Osu!
  12. Using V-Sync.
  13. Not using a frame limiter. *READ* NOT FRAMERATE V-SYNC! *READ*
  14. Holding your mouse improperly. ( Try navigating with your mouse held upside down, now try just a slight 15 degree angle from being 90 degree from the screen / arm when your arm is straight. If it's anything other than that, it'll move up or down a bit every time you move perfectly left and right without physically moving it left and right. It's hard to find the safest area of your desk to position your mouse / screen and yourself and finding the right spot. If you want to "calibrate" this, just find a map in osu that has hitcircles on the same Y Axis ( same distance from the bottom and the top of your screen ) pause it when you have 2 or more of those circles showing and move your mouse rapidly between them. If you can slide your hand / mouse on a surface allowing you to slide your hand horizontally only, it'll show you if you're holding the mouse at a wrong angle. )
I could go on with a few more if we go into more details of how all the mouse to screen happens and taking in factor frame rates, frame spikes, unsync'd frames, frame sync lag ( delays frames unevenly ) even with a frame lock of 60 FPS so it doesn't have to delay enough . Try to make sure you have as little of the things mentioned and you will be a HELL of a lot more precise.


I'd give you examples, but I just realized I spent the last 2 hours writing this and researching to be 100% sure of what I was saying and to give information as accurately as possible so no confusion arises. ( Other than the initial shock from the wall of text critical hit to your face. )

TL;DR Mouse precision is a mathematical equation. Keeping it simple = More Precise.

Adding factors such as multipliers, accelerators from base speed or starting at a certain speed, and any kind of thing that prevents the information being sent from the mouse to the computer inaccurately ( resistance / uneven surface / certain radio signals / USB Polling rates and intervals ) and more specifically NOT being able to know if those are calculated with decimals or rounded up, or rounded up to what extent )

You start with a dot. A point on your mouse is on, it's not moving.= 1
You move your mouse at 1000.x~ dots per second. Speed is not a factor so far. 1 dot = 1 pixel if it was used as flawless "raw mouse input".
You have some inaccurate information being sent to the computer. Mouse sends anywhere from 900.x~ to 1100.x~ dots per seconds due to uneven surface.
You have a non-gaming mouse or a gaming mouse that doesn't let you increase it's own polling rate AND the USB polling rate. The default USB polling rate is 125 Hz, which means the mouse cursor can only be updated every 8 milliseconds. The computer is now getting different dots per seconds every 8 milliseconds.

Let's see a 64 millisecond example. During that, the computer gets the following updates on the dots per seconds:

920.33, 1099.22, 1020, 1070.83, 933.29, 901.99, 1000 and 977.91.

This is in 64 miliseconds... Do you really think it's smart to use anything to modify these numbers in any way or form? There is NO POSSIBLE WAY to have something 100% accurate. It can be close with the right DPI and speed, but not 100%. Multiplying those numbers twice AKA 2 multipliers, whatever you have in windows ( Probably way too high of a multiplier, due to having LOW DPI ) then your 1.3x osu multiplier makes those numbers even more uneven.



The osu! community would like a thank you for fulfilling your feature request. I will be posting a complete explanation of all of this ( Including how everything I mentioned in the list affects each other. ) as a guide for those really wanting to get the best possible setup. It'll be better formatted, I just wrote it down as it came out.


TL;DR the last TL;DR: This user is intoxicated, but knows his shit. It's your settings causing your that inaccurate mouse sensitivity and not the game.



EDIT: HOLY CRAP! Sorry! :( I kept going "back" to edit and couldn't see anything but Preview/Submit, I didn't clue in I was posting a new post every edit. Can someone delete the last 3? I can't seem to be able to soft-delete my own posts.
Raging Bull
Nice quadruple post >_>
My1_old
I have no problems with that, I think that it is not really needed coz my changes are +-0,5 in most cases (switching between 1,5 and 2,0 and I even have my windows factor aon maximum and DPI button of my mou on level3 (of 3) so 0,1 has not such an effect if you ask me...
but if you want it, OK, but just make a text field to enter the value if you cant reach it with the bar...
Espionage724
Parog's post is pretty awesome :), not directly related to this feature request, but I did learn something :p
mm201
Parog: Nice theory, but it's actually more correct if the player sets their Windows mouse sensitivity to the middle setting (native) and lets osu! scale it up. This is because osu! will retain floating point accuracy (when enhance precision is on) but the Windows settings will not.

I'm interested why you think disabling the frame limiter will cause worse mouse accuracy. Is it because the mouse latency will vary?
nVidi4x
up this :3
Ramena
Why would you need that? i think the current one is accurate enough.
JackspicerX13
I'd say in conclusion, software tuning is not helping much, a mouse with a high dpi is the one that is really taking you somewhere, if there isn't hardware, there wouldn't be a software for it, even with fine-tuning, you can't surpass a better hardware.

With a pencil i can draw something on paper, and present it to someone else.
With only software, i'd like to see someone drawing without a monitor, without a pc, mouse, or tablet.
It's the hardware that really matters.
No offense, really, you should just get a higher dpi mouse.
My1_old
that doesnt change the fact that the Sensitivity SETTING is not accurate enough, that means if you set it e.g. on 1.5 it is too fast and with 1.4 it is too slow, that has nothing to do with buying a mouse with more DPI
bwross
Yeah, if anything you'd want a lower dpi mouse to deal with this, because that would reduce the difference between ticks allowing for better fine tuning.
My1_old
with a high DPI Mouse the Problem should be the same...
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