听说飞了
很强
很强
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Yura Hatsuki - Nanka Ii Koto
posted
Total Posts
108
Told you this was close to being ranked 
(Even though I forgot to mod it /me runs)
(Even though I forgot to mod it /me runs)oh this song
ahhh was gunna mod this but was overseas ;-;
恭喜!
恭喜!
There are few things that could be improved and some details were missed.
[General]
[General]
- Don't rely on metadata from older beatmaps or check the proof in cases someone provides you one. The reference listed is website of her album, which is correct when it comes to title. However, you must use prefered romanization if the artist has one, in this case, she's using Yura Hatsuki, it's even on the same website. You might argue that the link actually shows the previous order, but that's not an official reference. Domain name means nothing to us, as it could've been picked by someone else or her preferred domain could had been taken before she bought it, you might even notice that it says "hatuki", so it's not really a reference for romanization, please use what's on her website.
- Hitsounds bother me here a lot. While the arrangement of claps seems to be good, I quite don't get the custom hitsound you're using. The song is having some pop-rock type of snare, but you're using typical snare for electronical music, which doesn't sound that good here, you could find a better replacement for it. If you decide to change this, you can PM me for some recommendation.
- As I said, claps are fine, whistles seem to be fine too, but the cymbals are really out of place. The usage in some places is following music properly - when there's a cymbal in the music, you use a finish. That's fine, but some places use it to emphasize vocals, which makes it sound really loud and it feels unnatural for listener, somehow the player knows the cymbal is not going to be here. I'd like you to go through all difficulties and check all the finishes, especially during the kiai. The best example is Kami's Hard (and the biggest concern is his difficulty regarding this, but be sure to check it on all diffs) from 00:43:683 - to 00:55:991 - , there are 6 cymbals (in the end of this part, one looks echoed, so let's assume there are 7) but hitsounds have 20 finishes of cymbal type. What's however interesting is that through 00:52:914 - 00:55:991 - you follow the cymbals quite well, apart from 00:53:683 - 00:54:645 - 00:55:414 - but they don't sound that terrible. The thing is that emphasizing vocals as you did can be simply done using whistle - for example 01:03:876 (2,3) - sounds absolutely great with whistles only, because it somehow emphasizes the vocals by the whistle, but highlights the cymbal much better. Less can sometimes be more and having contrast between cymbal-following finishes and vocal-following whistles is musically more intelligent and as a listener, much more pleasant to hear. If you want, I can point out every single place with present issue, but I guess going through it once by yourself is enough.
- Another thing about how the map sounds and last, but things like 00:54:549 - should not be audible if you decide to do such thing. The ends end on nothing, so hearing any feedback here is annoying and doesn't make much sense. This applies to Kami's hard again. The way Insane used this is fine.
- When discussing this map, there was a concern from other BN about overlapping objects. It's not a big thing, but I agreed that it looks unpolished when some parts overlap objects, some parts have visible gaps, not sure if it was your intention.
- 00:20:030 (3,4) - This might look a bit confusing to a Normal player. We know that newbies often miss a repeat with the slider start. That's because the repeat is simply closer to the previous object and generally, they like playing what's closer first. I'd really recommend a different angle of this slider, it can be solved for example this way, it's better to avoid potential confusion on lewer diffs.
- 00:51:183 (4,5,6,7) - and 00:54:260 (3,4,5) - Judging from personal knowledge (what I remember was struggle for me when I was beginner and what my friends mostly complained about when I introduced them to the game) and replays of new players on this map, I must say these are the places where the newbies really get off the track. They usually start to spam 50s or 100s here, which is understandable because the transition from the white ticks to the red ticks is making a tricky rhythm. The players get the most of the rhythmical feedback from drums, so playing vocals while hearing the drums between them is what makes them confused. However, that's different for sliders, because they're easier to hit and don't require so gimmicky clicking as circles in such a pattern. I highly recommend you to replace these patterns with some sliders, eventually with a repeat, so the rhythm is easily understandable for the newbies. I could even say that the way Hard is mapped would feel less tricky for newbies that how the Normal is currently mapped.
- I really like this difficulty, quite a lot, but there's one thing that doesn't seem to fit. 00:42:337 (3) - Is the only 1/2 slider in the whole map and the problem is that it's probably too short, which might for sure surprise the player a lot, because it's unusually rhythm and pattern and in comparison with the rest of the map, it's not corresponding the difficulty of other patterns.
Topic Starter
www
sorry
sorry
Updated the post as I said before the edit. Anyway, I don't like doing this but I want to respond to your response, because I think this communication doesn't work.
This all might sound rude to you and might sound like I want to force everything to be fixed or that I just desperately want to DQ this. I know this is your first ranked map and it's visible from your response. Many mappers who firstly qualify a map try to avoid the disqualification and I'm not surprised, people are afraid of it because of the struggle they had getting BNs and because it took some time to actually get to the point where your map can be qualified, so it's pretty natural that you might feel like that. Disqualifications are there to avoid mistakes or things that were overlooked and to increase the quality of the beatmap. I'm saying this now, because I you seem to use fallacies and make up reasons to avoid the disqualification. I'm trying to explain you how things can be better and why they are better in this way by logical statements. The clap hitsound is personal preference, I just said it could be better for some reasons, but if you're satisfied that the snare sounds a bit more punchy than what the song should probably have, that's personal preference. But I cannot really get through the fact that you want to skip things such as this usage of finishes. I agree that you should follow the sounds you followed, but it doesn't make sense to use the same hitsound for most of sounds you want to emphasize, especially when it's a cymbal, which sounds really loud and in music, it's used very rarely and for a reason - because even in music, it sounds loud and artists use it only in places of some transition. I could write you many reasons why this usage is wrong, but I'm not going to make a "how does highlighting sounds work" thread off this. Please, consider what I said as a valid thing and try it yourself, don't be afraid of disqualification, I can assure you that this is worth requalifying and you have nothing to worry about. The mindset of people having their first beatmap disqualified is really complicated and it's obvious you'll want to avoid it. I just want you to be sure that there are ways to improve things a lot and you can do it to make this beatmap almost perfect. Don't try to make up reasons/fallacies just to avoid things. You can PM me at any time and I'll be more than glad to show you how better it can be, following the same sounds as you do, I'd really like to talk to you personally, because it's better for you to understand what one wans to say and maybe we could end up in a happy conclusion. We're not here to claw or bite, we're here to help and improve maps!
Please, keep in mind that map being disqualified doesn't always mean a bad thing, especially when there's a lot of potential for improvement..
I could even quotate myself "Don't rely on metadata from older beatmaps or check the proof in cases someone provides you one." This is very important, we are discouraged to use metadata from older maps, no matter how old they are. Someone not checking things properly recently doesn't necessarily mean that the metadata can be used in newer maps once someone proves it. I provided you probably the most reliable information you can get - what's more official than the singer's official website? I don't quite get why do you need KwaN here - of course, if you want to be sure about it, then go ahead, but what I said is exactly that you basically never copy metadata from older maps, if their usage is not corresponding to official source, then others still have to follow official data. I guess that album is not easy to get today, therefore unless you find scan of La Pucelle album, you must use Yura Hatsuki instead.Hanazawa Kana wrote:
If you have searched it and you can see that every ranked song of this artist use "Hatsuki Yura" rather than "Yura Hatsuki" such as the Eclipse Parade ranked last month,so i think there's no need to change it any more.btw,i've asked it to kwan and she said she will have a check of it.
Well, you probably didn't get the point, if you use any pop-rock drum and replace the clap, it sounds much cooler, you might at least have tried that. I agree it's personal preference, but before trying anything, assuming that it's enough is a bit lazy. I could live with that however.Hanazawa Kana wrote:
You can hear the claps sounds clearly and that shows the rhythm of the music,i think this is enough.From my point of view,i think currently using clap is good.
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fact that it gives annoying feedback even though the song provides nothing. Why'd then insane have these muted and hard would keep that? I really feel like this is attacking your own opinion, because what you do proves what you prefer. There had to be reason for doing it on insane, because it sounded weird probably, so suddenly saying that it doesn't matter because players don't click it is not in accordination with what you did. It's not even about affecting the gameplay, but the overall feeling when playing. Hearing something annoying already makes the feeling worse.Hanazawa Kana wrote:
That doestn't matters a lot cause players don't click the end of a slider and will not affect the feeling of play.
That's not a new thing. I am capable of checking how the things are placed and what they follow. The thing you're doing here is explaining me what do you follow, which is not issue, I explained you why this way of following is an issue and you simply come up with explaining me the way you made the issue, not why it isn't issue. The issue with finishes is that you follow multiple sounds in the music with it, especially all with the same volume and it result in some places to be really overdone and loud. I'm talking about the diversity and following the music properly - using correct instrument to emphasize something. Places where finish (as a cymbal) is following cymbal in the music are perfect, but places where it follows voice or the organ/whatever you call that simply sound loud and unfitting because using so many cymbals wouldn't make sense in this kind of song and because it doesn't highlight the instruments properly. What I'm trying to say here that in some places (such as the pattern I mentioned in previous post 01:03:876 (2,3) - did you even try that without finishes?) you use them unnecessarily and there are ways this can sound much better. Highlighting sounds is about their diversity and about the ability of them being distinguished from others. By putting a cymbal everywhere, listener isn't even able to tell what you're trying to emphasize, if other instruments use different hitsound, for example in the pattern I mentioned that whistle would fit: 01:03:876 (2,3) - the cymbals are highlighed in much better way, because there's the contrast between one and the other instrument. Editor allows you to use 1200 custom hitsounds, limiting yourself to just cymbal for multiple instruments doesn't make sense and could sound much better and more logical. I'm not trying to say that your hitsounds are bad, but why doing it this way, if other makes more sense and sounds/highlights certain instruments better. You can still highlight vocals, the organ and the cymbals while having the contrast, just by using variety of hitsounds, as I mentioned for example 01:03:876 (2,3) - just listen to it in current statement, it's really destroying one's ears, while whistles instead of these cymbals highlight the cymbals in sound much more and it sounds more pleasant. "I use finish in every big white lines in kiai part" - I noticed that and what I'm telling you is explaining why that isn't mostly proper.Hanazawa Kana wrote:
I use finish in every big white lines in kiai part and also use it to emphasis some important sound.you can hear there have the same sound in these places.00:52:914 - 00:55:991 - 00:53:683 - 00:54:645 - 00:55:414 -why not using the same hitsound? by the way,I use claps in every 2nd and 4th white lines and whistles in mostly red lines in kiai part to keep a rhythm and lively feeling.Besides kiai part,i use whistles to emphasis the highest tune of voice.
This all might sound rude to you and might sound like I want to force everything to be fixed or that I just desperately want to DQ this. I know this is your first ranked map and it's visible from your response. Many mappers who firstly qualify a map try to avoid the disqualification and I'm not surprised, people are afraid of it because of the struggle they had getting BNs and because it took some time to actually get to the point where your map can be qualified, so it's pretty natural that you might feel like that. Disqualifications are there to avoid mistakes or things that were overlooked and to increase the quality of the beatmap. I'm saying this now, because I you seem to use fallacies and make up reasons to avoid the disqualification. I'm trying to explain you how things can be better and why they are better in this way by logical statements. The clap hitsound is personal preference, I just said it could be better for some reasons, but if you're satisfied that the snare sounds a bit more punchy than what the song should probably have, that's personal preference. But I cannot really get through the fact that you want to skip things such as this usage of finishes. I agree that you should follow the sounds you followed, but it doesn't make sense to use the same hitsound for most of sounds you want to emphasize, especially when it's a cymbal, which sounds really loud and in music, it's used very rarely and for a reason - because even in music, it sounds loud and artists use it only in places of some transition. I could write you many reasons why this usage is wrong, but I'm not going to make a "how does highlighting sounds work" thread off this. Please, consider what I said as a valid thing and try it yourself, don't be afraid of disqualification, I can assure you that this is worth requalifying and you have nothing to worry about. The mindset of people having their first beatmap disqualified is really complicated and it's obvious you'll want to avoid it. I just want you to be sure that there are ways to improve things a lot and you can do it to make this beatmap almost perfect. Don't try to make up reasons/fallacies just to avoid things. You can PM me at any time and I'll be more than glad to show you how better it can be, following the same sounds as you do, I'd really like to talk to you personally, because it's better for you to understand what one wans to say and maybe we could end up in a happy conclusion. We're not here to claw or bite, we're here to help and improve maps!
Please, keep in mind that map being disqualified doesn't always mean a bad thing, especially when there's a lot of potential for improvement..
Topic Starter
Thank you.
I'll have a check of it and fix the problems these days.
I'll have a check of it and fix the problems these days.
Just ask me if you need something.
As per your request.
Topic Starter
@Wafu
All fixed but keep finish hitsound in hard diff as the requset of GDer.
All fixed but keep finish hitsound in hard diff as the requset of GDer.
I hope kami comes here and explain why by himself.
艹死骏骏！给我来当翻译啊！不是我不想回！大段论文我TM的看不懂啊！IamKwaN wrote:
As per your request.
@wafu
I use those finish at kiai part just because I want to emphasize the voice here, not follow the cymbals only. tbh, the hitsounds here is a little bit loud. but I feel its really sounds fine to me. at last I deleted the finish at 01:03:876 (2,3) - and add a normal-finish at 00:38:876 (4) - . decrease the volume to 70%
I already talked about this. We're all aware that you wanted to emphasize the voice, but you have a wide opportunity of using other hitsounds, be it custom or default, which would in any case sound better. Usage of the same hitsound make everything sound the same and destroy the point of emphasis. Using different sound puts some emphasis on voice for example and another type of hitsound can put emphasis on the cymbal. Different instruments being emphasized by different hitsounds provide better and more logical highlighting. Especially if we consider how strictly cymbals work.kamisamaaa wrote:
I use those finish at kiai part just because I want to emphasize the voice here, not follow the cymbals only. tbh, the hitsounds here is a little bit loud. but I feel its really sounds fine to me. at last I deleted the finish at 01:03:876 (2,3) - and add a normal-finish at 00:38:876 (4) - . decrease the volume to 70%
Quick mod here for Kami's Hard
00:05:799 (4,1,2) - this pattern is too hard and overmapped, try this: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5735730
00:46:376 (4,1) - avoid large jumps please
01:09:837 (5,6) - same
good luck
00:05:799 (4,1,2) - this pattern is too hard and overmapped, try this: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5735730
00:46:376 (4,1) - avoid large jumps please
01:09:837 (5,6) - same
good luck
艹死黃瓜，死都不翻譯！kamisamaaa wrote:
艹死骏骏！给我来当翻译啊！不是我不想回！大段论文我TM的看不懂啊！IamKwaN wrote:
As per your request.
okay delete those finish and use whistle instead.Wafu wrote:
I already talked about this. We're all aware that you wanted to emphasize the voice, but you have a wide opportunity of using other hitsounds, be it custom or default, which would in any case sound better. Usage of the same hitsound make everything sound the same and destroy the point of emphasis. Using different sound puts some emphasis on voice for example and another type of hitsound can put emphasis on the cymbal. Different instruments being emphasized by different hitsounds provide better and more logical highlighting. Especially if we consider how strictly cymbals work.
I think they are easy enough for a hard diffUnderforest wrote:
Quick mod here for Kami's Hard
00:05:799 (4,1,2) - this pattern is too hard and overmapped, try this: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5735730
00:46:376 (4,1) - avoid large jumps please
01:09:837 (5,6) - same
good luck
那就只能艹烂骏马了!IamKwaN wrote:
艹死黃瓜，死都不翻譯！
Topic Starter
k updated
Why did you delete so many finishes? Wafu's concern was mostly about Hard diff, but you deleted necessary finishes on your diff as well...
00:41:953 - 00:43:299 - 00:43:683 - 00:49:837 - 01:02:145 - 01:05:222 - 01:05:607 - 01:05:991 - They all have actual cymbal sounds and there's no reason to not use finishes on these. Just add them and use the hitsound copier again, then fix each diff if necessary. Your hitsounds has gone inconsistent throughout the diffs again, like only on Normal 00:41:376 - has a finish sound and 00:41:953 - doesn't, which should be swapped like Easy/Insane. Make sure you change every diff when applying hitsound changes. The best way to do it is using hitsound copier.
[Easy]
* 00:40:607 (1,2,3,4) - This has created even worse problem, which is a 3/2 gap that makes polarity issue. Use http://puu.sh/qo4lx/cab3686cf8.jpg this option.
[Kami's Hard]
* I guess you need to move your hitsound sampleset to S:C2 because the hitsounds are changed. After you do this, ask Hanazawa Kana to delete soft-sliderslide.wav.
* 00:49:068 - Whistle
* 01:05:607 - 01:05:991 - They actually have cymbal sounds, so maybe you can use finishes by that logic.
00:41:953 - 00:43:299 - 00:43:683 - 00:49:837 - 01:02:145 - 01:05:222 - 01:05:607 - 01:05:991 - They all have actual cymbal sounds and there's no reason to not use finishes on these. Just add them and use the hitsound copier again, then fix each diff if necessary. Your hitsounds has gone inconsistent throughout the diffs again, like only on Normal 00:41:376 - has a finish sound and 00:41:953 - doesn't, which should be swapped like Easy/Insane. Make sure you change every diff when applying hitsound changes. The best way to do it is using hitsound copier.
[Easy]
* 00:40:607 (1,2,3,4) - This has created even worse problem, which is a 3/2 gap that makes polarity issue. Use http://puu.sh/qo4lx/cab3686cf8.jpg this option.
[Normal]Wafu on discord wrote:
3/2 rhythms are a disaster for newbies.
This hasn't fixed. It surely looks a bit unpolished. Though I don't care about that much, this can be improved. On a side note, that "other BN" is Sonnyc.Wafu wrote:
When discussing this map, there was a concern from other BN about overlapping objects. It's not a big thing, but I agreed that it looks unpolished when some parts overlap objects, some parts have visible gaps, not sure if it was your intention.
[Kami's Hard]
* I guess you need to move your hitsound sampleset to S:C2 because the hitsounds are changed. After you do this, ask Hanazawa Kana to delete soft-sliderslide.wav.
* 00:49:068 - Whistle
* 01:05:607 - 01:05:991 - They actually have cymbal sounds, so maybe you can use finishes by that logic.
Topic Starter
thank you~Doyak wrote:
Why did you delete so many finishes? Wafu's concern was mostly about Hard diff, but you deleted necessary finishes on your diff as well...
00:41:953 - 00:43:299 - 00:43:683 - 00:49:837 - 01:02:145 - 01:05:222 - 01:05:607 - 01:05:991 - They all have actual cymbal sounds and there's no reason to not use finishes on these. Just add them and use the hitsound copier again, then fix each diff if necessary. Your hitsounds has gone inconsistent throughout the diffs again, like only on Normal 00:41:376 - has a finish sound and 00:41:953 - doesn't, which should be swapped like Easy/Insane. Make sure you change every diff when applying hitsound changes. The best way to do it is using hitsound copier._(:з」∠)_.... fixed
[Easy]
* 00:40:607 (1,2,3,4) - This has created even worse problem, which is a 3/2 gap that makes polarity issue. Use http://puu.sh/qo4lx/cab3686cf8.jpg this option.3/2 is quite hard to play,i know the feeling.fixed that but using another placement[Normal]Wafu on discord wrote:
3/2 rhythms are a disaster for newbies.This hasn't fixed. It surely looks a bit unpolished. Though I don't care about that much, this can be improved. On a side note, that "other BN" is Sonnyc._(:з」∠)_I tried to fix the overlap problem,but it seems that i was misunderstand it.did you means the overlap between the object next to each other in timeline?I changed the ds snap to 1.23,maybe that looks betterWafu wrote:
When discussing this map, there was a concern from other BN about overlapping objects. It's not a big thing, but I agreed that it looks unpolished when some parts overlap objects, some parts have visible gaps, not sure if it was your intention.
[Kami's Hard]
* I guess you need to move your hitsound sampleset to S:C2 because the hitsounds are changed. After you do this, ask Hanazawa Kana to delete soft-sliderslide.wav.He would like to use the default clap sounds and slience the sliderside so just use the custom1
all fixedDoyak wrote:
[Kami's Hard]
* I guess you need to move your hitsound sampleset to S:C2 because the hitsounds are changed. After you do this, ask Hanazawa Kana to delete soft-sliderslide.wav.
* 00:49:068 - Whistle
* 01:05:607 - 01:05:991 - They actually have cymbal sounds, so maybe you can use finishes by that logic.
Topic Starter
up
too lazy to read long words
(run
(run
add finish: 00:19:068 -
remove finish: 00:25:222 - 01:02:914 -
Just these. That's all.
remove finish: 00:25:222 - 01:02:914 -
Just these. That's all.
Topic Starter
@Doyak
fixed
fixed
Alright, let's try again.
Topic Starter
Thank you~~
rechecked and re
gratz
Gratz, was supposed to mod this a while ago lol
Underforest wrote:
gratz
Triggered by the wrong name order, now it doesn't even find it under the artist when sorting by artist ingame... 葉月ゆら hatsuki (preferred) yu ra - there is only one way to order that and that is family name then first name. The ingame sorting uses romanized version to order even when using japanese metadata and language - suddenly 葉月ゆら is sorted after 雪 and in the Y section?
http://i.imgur.com/c0XGUt2.png - wrong order
http://i.imgur.com/xL5Fmyr.png - correct order of ALL other Hatsuki Yura maps
And relying on japanese to romanize for you is not a good idea, they will put stuff like tinami for chinami for 千 character (because that's how you type it on jp keyboard, you use it to save you a keyboard stroke) and other horrible romanizations like that... not to mention her website says haTUki (cause thats how you type つ)
Remember that romanization is not a japanese system, it is made by westerners to make understanding japanese easier, it isnt about preference as mentioned in ranking rules, it is about being wrong. The prefered romanization is the haTSUki over hadzuki/hazuki since thats the reading is つ and not づ.
Not sure if this is possible to fix without unranking first, if not then whatever but for future please nominators for the sake of us weebs don't put Japanese names in wrong order especially when there are already maps in the correct order and it screws ingame search and sorting.
ありがとう
http://i.imgur.com/c0XGUt2.png - wrong order
http://i.imgur.com/xL5Fmyr.png - correct order of ALL other Hatsuki Yura maps
And relying on japanese to romanize for you is not a good idea, they will put stuff like tinami for chinami for 千 character (because that's how you type it on jp keyboard, you use it to save you a keyboard stroke) and other horrible romanizations like that... not to mention her website says haTUki (cause thats how you type つ)
Remember that romanization is not a japanese system, it is made by westerners to make understanding japanese easier, it isnt about preference as mentioned in ranking rules, it is about being wrong. The prefered romanization is the haTSUki over hadzuki/hazuki since thats the reading is つ and not づ.
Not sure if this is possible to fix without unranking first, if not then whatever but for future please nominators for the sake of us weebs don't put Japanese names in wrong order especially when there are already maps in the correct order and it screws ingame search and sorting.
ありがとう
I was asked to respond to this by Doyak, so I'll do so.SteveRowland wrote:
Triggered by the wrong name order, now it doesn't even find it under the artist when sorting by artist ingame... 葉月ゆら hatsuki (preferred) yu ra - there is only one way to order that and that is family name then first name. The ingame sorting uses romanized version to order even when using japanese metadata and language - suddenly 葉月ゆら is sorted after 雪 and in the Y section?
http://i.imgur.com/c0XGUt2.png - wrong order
http://i.imgur.com/xL5Fmyr.png - correct order of ALL other Hatsuki Yura maps
And relying on japanese to romanize for you is not a good idea, they will put stuff like tinami for chinami for 千 character (because that's how you type it on jp keyboard, you use it to save you a keyboard stroke) and other horrible romanizations like that... not to mention her website says haTUki (cause thats how you type つ)
Remember that romanization is not a japanese system, it is made by westerners to make understanding japanese easier, it isnt about preference as mentioned in ranking rules, it is about being wrong. The prefered romanization is the haTSUki over hadzuki/hazuki since thats the reading is つ and not づ.
Not sure if this is possible to fix without unranking first, if not then whatever but for future please nominators for the sake of us weebs don't put Japanese names in wrong order especially when there are already maps in the correct order and it screws ingame search and sorting.
ありがとう
It's not this map having incorrect order, it's other beatmaps having incorrect order. Her website doesn't say haTUki, that's just the domain name and isn't any reference. I can literally have trgfdx.com domain about myself, or I can have waffu.com, because someone already owns it. Domain name is absolutely not official reference. What matters is content of her website, not domain name.
Order of this map is not 'surname firstname', that doesn't make it unrankable. The rule also says "For artists which have a preferred romanisation, use this one." She's using it on her website, so it is a preferred romanization. Here are few screenshots from her official website. They're using order as in the map, not only here, but for example even on http://hatukiyura.sakura.ne.jp/yoiyami/ or http://hatukiyura.sakura.ne.jp/hameln/Ranking Criteria wrote:
Eastern artists must be written in the proper 'surname firstname' format (e.g. Japanese/Chinese/Korean). For artists which have a preferred romanisation, use this one. If you're unsure of your artist's name, then check previously ranked maps, Google, Wikipedia, or ask a BN for help.
This is just a prejudice that japanese are not cappable of romanizing things correctly, please don't mess around with it. Everyone is equal and everyone can romanize. Especially artist can choose whatever preferred romanization he wants.SteveRowland wrote:
And relying on japanese to romanize for you is not a good idea, they will put stuff like tinami for chinami for 千 character (because that's how you type it on jp keyboard, you use it to save you a keyboard stroke) and other horrible romanizations like that... not to mention her website says haTUki (cause thats how you type つ)
Current metadata is correct as it corresponds with preferred romanization of Yura Hatsuki, according to her official website. Considering how other maps romanize her name or considering metadata from other beatmaps is not reliable and shouldn't be used - Ranking criteria says that you should check them, but be aware that they're outdated and you should use only official information from the artist. If available. Just because this is the first case where the romanization was taken from official source (not just copying) doesn't mean it's incorrect, other used incorrect romanization and they passed through. In future, maps should have Yura Hatsuki order as that's what the artist has chosen as their romanization. Obviously, unless the album states the other romanization.
I understand where you are coming from but literally the only thing it does right now is making it harder to have beatmaps grouped by artist (in both English and Japanese language of the game which is making it even worse as suddenly 葉月 is sorted next to ゆ) with the already quite limited sorting methods available in the osu client.
I know that BN is not an easy task but it really feels like this was going against years old tradition of 100 other maps before for no apparent reason just to have something to point out about metadata :/ Sure you can lawyer it from that sentence in ranking rules and all but it was completely unnecessary and all it does is it confuses players and makes the map less likely to be played together with the old maps, which is a shame because its a great map.
This isn't the first instance of this which is why I'm actually posting about it, I've been burned by this several times in the past and its just annoying for players.
Maybe with osu!next we will be able to sort by Japanese metadata or something but until then please keep consistency with traditions, there is so many players with OCD and this kind of thing really hurts
I know that BN is not an easy task but it really feels like this was going against years old tradition of 100 other maps before for no apparent reason just to have something to point out about metadata :/ Sure you can lawyer it from that sentence in ranking rules and all but it was completely unnecessary and all it does is it confuses players and makes the map less likely to be played together with the old maps, which is a shame because its a great map.
This isn't the first instance of this which is why I'm actually posting about it, I've been burned by this several times in the past and its just annoying for players.
Maybe with osu!next we will be able to sort by Japanese metadata or something but until then please keep consistency with traditions, there is so many players with OCD and this kind of thing really hurts
I once thought about this too and I agree with what you're concerned about. But "being as official as possible" is what the staff wants to do, and we're following it to make every ranked maps have official metadata. We simply didn't have strict rules about this before, and now we're constructing more clear rules one by one, and metadata is in the way of it. If the 'tradition' you said is going against to what we're aiming for, it can be changed by a rule.SteveRowland wrote:
I understand where you are coming from but literally the only thing it does right now is making it harder to have beatmaps grouped by artist (in both English and Japanese language of the game which is making it even worse as suddenly 葉月 is sorted next to ゆ) with the already quite limited sorting methods available in the osu client.
I know that BN is not an easy task but it really feels like this was going against years old tradition of 100 other maps before for no apparent reason just to have something to point out about metadata :/ Sure you can lawyer it from that sentence in ranking rules and all but it was completely unnecessary and all it does is it confuses players and makes the map less likely to be played together with the old maps, which is a shame because its a great map.
This isn't the first instance of this which is why I'm actually posting about it, I've been burned by this several times in the past and its just annoying for players.
Maybe with osu!next we will be able to sort by Japanese metadata or something but until then please keep consistency with traditions, there is so many players with OCD and this kind of thing really hurts
Searching "Hatsuki Yura" or "Yura Hatsuki" in-game will still find all of her songs, they just won't be sorted under the same letter. If we did something wrong in past, we don't make it a tradition, we simply do that correctly instead. This is like saying that if the romanization was completely wrong in all other maps, it would still be fine, because we after all did that in past, so we should keep up with tradition. I get what you mean here, but we shouldn't allow things that are discouraged by rules and should aim for the most accurate ones.SteveRowland wrote:
I understand where you are coming from but literally the only thing it does right now is making it harder to have beatmaps grouped by artist (in both English and Japanese language of the game which is making it even worse as suddenly 葉月 is sorted next to ゆ) with the already quite limited sorting methods available in the osu client.
I know that BN is not an easy task but it really feels like this was going against years old tradition of 100 other maps before for no apparent reason just to have something to point out about metadata :/ Sure you can lawyer it from that sentence in ranking rules and all but it was completely unnecessary and all it does is it confuses players and makes the map less likely to be played together with the old maps, which is a shame because its a great map.
This isn't the first instance of this which is why I'm actually posting about it, I've been burned by this several times in the past and its just annoying for players.
Maybe with osu!next we will be able to sort by Japanese metadata or something but until then please keep consistency with traditions, there is so many players with OCD and this kind of thing really hurts
If you want to bring in the obsessive compulsive disorder here, then be sure that point isn't valid. First of all, having OCD and playing osu! is already a trigger. You could apply that to most of mapping techniques, force symmetry, 1pixel accuracy etc. Second thing is, what if mapper had OCD and wanted to keep in order with the artist? But players want the opposite - DQ? Force to change it despite it being correct? The only thing we must consider here is if the metadata doesn't conflict with artist's official metadata and ensure that you can find it in-game and website. If one wants to find songs from one artist, he'll still have to type it because of circles or bands, which don't list her name directly in artist's name. Relying on sorting isn't always the best. If artist changes name, we go with the change because we want to make it as accurate and as official as possible. We are not above the artist to alter their name and OCD or sorting is really irrelevant.
Btw. "just to have something to point out about metadata" - It was always an issue, just it used to slip through more often and there were no people who'd check it frequently. Since the DQ system was invented, we were aiming to fix as much as possible. It's not that we made this up so we can point out something.
I love Hatsuki Yura for a long time and this kind of thing is not trigered me that much, since both name refers to same person eventually. About keeping the old tradition on consistency metadata, we actually already tried to have consistency here, but every years once in a while we revise our ruleset on ranking criteria so the rules may diffrent year to year and as Wafu and Doyak been stated above we should use metadata as official as possible. In this case, Hatsuki Yura, she suddenly refers herself as Yura Hatsuki (western style romanization) based on her official site, so we try to use Yura Hatsuki here instead Hatsuki Yura to respect her choice in that matter.
Well that just my two cents, hope you can understand the situation here
Well that just my two cents, hope you can understand the situation here