I don't think a country has any obligation to house non citizens as much as I don't have to take in the homeles men on the street corner near my house.

Right, but what does that say about you as a person. It is a little different that your analogy because these people's lives are being threatened. If they were not forced away from their homes in order to live in somewhat safety, they wouldn't

Trump rocks the establishment boat full of liars and asshole politicians and every time they do something to smear him but fail it just shows how much these people should get out and be replaced with a team that isn't incompetent for once.

Does that not tell you something ?
I wouldn't want Hillary for sure. You can't be serious about a candidate whom you know has only motives for self-gain, and not to mention the sheer amount of shit her husband and herself are in.

And some people argue that a Wall will somehow make things shittier than they are.

My humble opinion.

Sandy Hoey wrote:

Right, but what does that say about you as a person. It is a little different that your analogy because these people's lives are being threatened. If they were not forced away from their homes in order to live in somewhat safety, they wouldn't

I don't think that's always the case - you can decide to move for any number of reasons including just wanting to get free shit. Mexico is also a big country, why notany other places in there? I'd also say that being homeless is still threatening if not immediately so

Cartels are all over Mexico, and nothing is being done by the government because they are being paid off.

I do agree that there are people coming he illegally, but you can't completely count out the peopel that I talke about. Although it is near impossible to tell then apart, which is the big problem

Sandy Hoey wrote:

Cartels are all over Mexico, and nothing is being done by the government because they are being paid off.

I do agree that there are people coming he illegally, but you can't completely count out the peopel that I talke about. Although it is near impossible to tell then apart, which is the big problem

And I believe the U.S should not have any interest in those people - thry 're foreign citizens and don't matter until they come into the nation. This goes for every other nation on the planet as well.

But that's just like, my opinion man.

Sandy Hoey wrote:

The problem with illegal immigrations is that yes, it is illegal and should never be condined.mbut if you look at it from a humanitarian view, you have to realize that these people are running from a lot more than bad wages. Especially when we use the example of Mexico, we see that people are running to save their lives. They are not coming here to find jobs, they are coming to just be safe. Of course, that is only part of the illegal immigrants coming across the border along with peole who do have malicious intents (money, drugs). And the problem is that they can't go through the legal process since it takes too long and the main concern is the safety of themselves and their children if they have any.

Of course, this doesn't mean that what they are doing is okay, but it is something you have to consider when you lock them in the same room as a monster that will kill them and no one to protect them since the government is run (or heavily influenced) by the cartels

National minorities never brings anything good. It would end as it ended up with blacks, they would accuse anyone for racism, they would build their own ghettos etc. After bringing their own people to goverment they would represent their own community, not whole American society, play victim role and say they deserve more and more. Just like it is actually with blacks or jews. Goverment should represent stright rules and never think about any politics from 'human' perspective.

Thete's a neat map of the usa you can zoom in on that colours houses by ethnicity - on the city level it's interesting how a najority of paces are heavily segregated into distinct colours of ethnicity.

I'd find it but I'm in the shower


This is also tangental because I justvwant to show how we segregste outselves

To everyone hating on me right now, I am not saying that their situation makes what they do any more acceptable. I'm just saying as a country with this much power and authority, we have to do something to help their situation, which in this case would be the drug cartel threatening their lives. This would mean that less people would want to immigrate from Mexico illegally into the US for safety, leaving a large portion of those who are still entering illegally coming for reason like drugs. This would benefit both countries. Our immigration problem and their standard of living

Ain't no one hatin' on you.

Also Khelly you're always in the shower ..
Well that explains the grammatical errors.

Sandy Hoey wrote:

To everyone hating on me right now, I am not saying that their situation makes what they do any more acceptable. I'm just saying as a country with this much power and authority, we have to do something to help their situation, which in this case would be the drug cartel threatening their lives. This would mean that less people would want to immigrate from Mexico illegally into the US for safety, leaving a large portion of those who are still entering illegally coming forbreason like drugs. This would benefit both countries. Our immigration problem and their standard of living

Who's hating on you? Tbh I don't like saying we HAVE to help these people because we dont - but since the cartel negatively affects the us itself, it gives a better reason to improve that certain situation

This isnt helping them yo help them, but to help ourselves

Faust wrote:

Ain't no one hatin' on you.

Also Khelly you're always in the shower ..
Well that explains the grammatical errors.

I take 90 minute showers and tend to be on osu forums more

What, who showers for 90 minutes.

That's a gross waste of water !

Faust wrote:

What, who showers for 90 minutes.

That's a gross waste of water !

Me cause I sit in the tub and use my phone. The drain has no plug so no baths - also Inlike the white noise

Khelly wrote:

Thete's a neat map of the usa you can zoom in on that colours houses by ethnicity - on the city level it's interesting how a najority of paces are heavily segregated into distinct colours of ethnicity.

I'd find it but I'm in the shower


This is also tangental because I justvwant to show how we segregste outselves

If that's true, that's another argument different nations and races never won't assimilate with each other. USA is a state made by immigrants, but back then people knew their place. Communists will do anything to gain the power, they're not acknowleding basic human rules and simply logic, that's why they're playing with national minorities all the time.

So it's a soak ? Fair enough.

Mildly related:

Sandy Hoey wrote:

Right, but what does that say about you as a person. It is a little different that your analogy because these people's lives are being threatened. If they were not forced away from their homes in order to live in somewhat safety, they wouldn't

I don't really want to go to jail for letting an illegal immigrant in my house
also why should a country prioritize the lives of foreigners more than their own

get real dude

Navizel wrote:

Sandy Hoey wrote:

Right, but what does that say about you as a person. It is a little different that your analogy because these people's lives are being threatened. If they were not forced away from their homes in order to live in somewhat safety, they wouldn't

I don't really want to go to jail for letting an illegal immigrant in my house

Nothing im saying here has anything to do with the law. It has to do with ethics and how you act to the world around you. I know, doesn't really fit the OP

ONLY TRUMP

Sandy Hoey wrote:

Nothing im saying here has anything to do with the law. It has to do with ethics and how you act to the world around you. I know, doesn't really fit the OP

well too bad the law doesn't care about your feelings. The world is not all about sunshines and rainbows
not like I get where you're coming from because I'm against same sex marriage but then again, law doesn't care about my feelings.

http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/

Here's the map by the way. According to wikipedia cause I don't feel like typing it on my own from the 2010 census result According to the U.S. Census 2000, the racial makeup of the city was 49.3% White (including Hispanic or Latino), 25.3% Black or African American, 0.4% Native American, 5.3% Asian, 0.1&% Pacific Islander, 16.5% from other races, and 3.2% from two or more races. 37% of the population was Hispanic or Latino of any race.

This is my city:


I like how I can clearly see where the Korean part of town is from looking at this map even though I don't know where the hell it is if you gave me an actual street map of this city. The distinct orange, green, and blue blobs is really stunning. I refer to this when I think about people thinking mass migration of wildly different people is a good thing (not referring to Mexico here) and that they will assimilate rather than just congregate with themselves. The United States imo is fairly decent at diversity and even here we're willfully segregating ourselves in where we choose to live.

But what would the world become if we only thought about ourselves? Nothing would ever happen and everything would go to shit

Sandy Hoey wrote:

But what would the world become if we only thought about ourselves? Nothing would ever happen and everything would go to shit

boo hoo

You want the world to be great? Ask the scums who are making Mexico a crappy place to fix their shit. Same goes for other third world countries like Philippines.

USA isn't responsible for other country's shit. You want your life to be better? USA can do that. But first, they have to go through legal process first.

Sandy Hoey wrote:

But what would the world become if we only thought about ourselves? Nothing would ever happen and everything would go to shit

I don't think it's a smart idea to go out of your way to fix other people's problems and shoulder their burden for little reason other than compassion. I think a better reason was what you gave before when you related how cartels affect the US itself as well.

Im not saying the US needs to solve the problems over other countries. I am saying that people need to help others that are in danger. It does not matter where they come from. There is no association with any particular type of government or country that makes a difference.

I know this is only an idealistic world, but that doesn't mean we whould try to make it a reality

If it were a practical thing to do then probably, but I don't believe in it.



What do you think of that map?

I have actually seen that map before. I think the problem started a long time ago right around the civil rights movement and the Jim Crowe laws (talking just about black neighborhoods. Similar situation may apply to other races). Home owners would not sell or rent to blacks, so they were forced into certain neighborhoods against their will since they had to live somewhere.

It is still a problem now because the low level of the social services in those areas along with gang influences make it hard for children to pull themselves out. It is possible, but does not happen often

-->Navizel

I admit that my first link wasn't really a smart choice, however, you can't deny that trump's words on Megyn Kelly aren't sexist.
Going the legal way for people without diploma and poor english skills is hard and long.
I entered USA legally if you want to know.


-->Frolski

My last answer to you, I won't bother answering you anymore since you're just a racist. No point in telling me that I'm a communist blablabla
Do you have any study that say migrants are only drug dealers and women are all carrying child to make them american citizen ? I think it's you who is hypnotized by the speech of far right politics.
For Hilary Clinton I already answered that I would vote blank if I was to vote.
Btw I work during my summer vacations and I pay my tax and I gave to ngo. What I'm saying isn't that you need to give everything you have to help people, but just let them enter in a peacefull country to allow them to try to start a new life, nothing more. Also 1 million for me isn't very much if you look at the EU population (500 millions).
Second Germy/France ?? what does that mean ? Women aren't scared to go outside here you know.
Also I don't understand the hate on cummunism...
I don't really want to continue since you're saying only bullshit "rapist are everywhere" , "National minorities never brings anything good" "back then people knew their place."

aynoz wrote:

-->Frolski

My last answer to you, I won't bother answering you anymore since you're just a racist. No point in telling me that I'm a communist blablabla
Do you have any study that say migrants are only drug dealers and women are all carrying child to make them american citizen ? I think it's you who is hypnotized by the speech of far right politics.
For Hilary Clinton I already answered that I would vote blank if I was to vote.
Btw I work during my summer vacations and I pay my tax and I gave to ngo. What I'm saying isn't that you need to give everything you have to help people, but just let them enter in a peacefull country to allow them to try to start a new life, nothing more. Also 1 million for me isn't very much if you look at the EU population (500 millions).
Second Germy/France ?? what does that mean ? Women aren't scared to go outside here you know.
Also I don't understand the hate on cummunism...
I don't really want to continue since you're saying only bullshit "rapist are everywhere" , "National minorities never brings anything good" "back then people knew their place."

>I won't bother answering you anymore since you're just a racist.


So simply saying you're just communist. You has made even steps to offend me as racist, tell me please where I said anything racist. You can belive your communistic dream, but truth will stay truth. Besides it, you have no arguments and there is no logic behind your posts, not including typical communistic bullshit like "EVERYONE HAVE TO GET SOME HELP", "MIGRANTS AREN'T MURDERERS AND DRUG DEALERS", "YOU'RE RACIST". Actual happenings shows it other way.

>Women aren't scared to go outside here you know.

Most of rapes and murders in Europe nowadays are made by black/arabic migrants from Middle East. YOU CAN'T DENY IT. Just look a bit for graphs and maybe you'll realize the facts.


>I entered USA legally if you want to know.
>Women aren't scared to go outside here you know.


In USA they aren't, in France I don't think so.


>Also I don't understand the hate on cummunism...


- In stalinism Stalin and his goverment set taxes 50%
Would you work half of the month just for goverment? Because I don't.

- Milions of people died in stalinism/communism.
- Communist causes slower economic development.


Really, there is long story besides it. But I'm not sure if you've been paying attention at history lessons. I bother myself to reply, you won't understand true facts because you have no basic history knowledge and no logical reasoning.

This whole thread makes me lose a little faith in humanity.

RoseusJaeger wrote:

This whole thread makes me lose a little faith in humanity.

Yes, very dark and edgy.

This Thread In A Nutshell wrote:

trump is good b/c he reiterates conservative extremism and is offensive, and I think that being offensive is honest, doing honest political research is bad and im willing to do anything to not appear to be progressive

barf barf barf barf

Then again, I'm not a conservative in even the slightest, so.

Sanders > Trump > Hillary

not really arguable
gonna vote for trump i guess. at least he lacks the political moxie to really do anything too terrible. Wait, you thought moxie was one of his greatest strengths? He's an entertainer, it's going to vanish as soon as he's behind that desk with no idea how to be a president, and just follows his advisors/cabinet on everything because he has no other choice. Same shit happened when we made the Terminator governor of cali.

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

Sanders > Trump > Hillary

not really arguable
gonna vote for trump i guess. at least he lacks the political moxie to really do anything too terrible.

I'll still vote for Hillary over Trump, since there's at least a chance that her cabinet will be a bit more balanced than whatever the GOP whispers into Trump's ear. I'll still prefer Sanders over any of them at the end of the day (voted for him in the primary without any hesitation) but it's a pie in the sky kind of thing.

No matter what, tho, vote in the midterm elections. Congress will be more important and visible than ever.

Trump > Sanders > Hillary

not really arguable

America is going down either way

Dump the trump? More like punch the trump and yes, here are some videos

lol http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390168/Migrant-rape-fears-spread-Europe-Women-told-not-night-assaults-carried-Sweden-Finland-Germany-Austria-Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html

Also, these immigrants, they have to cross literally the entire continent of Europe, bypassing all the south Europe and into north Europe, which has benefits

2nd, super rich countries around Syria, such as Saudi Arabia have accepted a nice figure of 0 immigrants, wow what hypocrisy when they start telling other countries to start accepting

As for a wall, of course there will be those people that find ways to get around the wall, but it won't be as easy, as there is an entire wall there, stocked with guards. Having this barrier will also decrease the easiness of drug transport which will spike drug prices which (in my expectation, will make more people less prone to buying the drugs at such a high cost).

Also, it has been proven, free college does not create smarter kids. If the kids were smart in the first place, they'd easily get scholarships, allowing them to go to a decent college or community college. Otherwise, all the stupid kids will flood the classrooms dragging the rest of the smarter kids behind and that will be detrimental to society. Since college would be free too, people are going to not try, since they don't exactly have a risk because they're not putting out their own money. I'm not saying I don't want free college, but if you had to earn yourself free college after a year, maybe that'd be ok. (but earning money is basically scholarships...)

Trump won't have the GOP whispering in his ear as president, otherwise he wouldn't be so unconventional now. But even so, Hillary is a liar and she doesn't give 2 f***s about the American public, is a supporter of retarded SJWs, and is being controlled by money by big donors. Sanders, although he's a truthful person, I don't agree with his socialist plans, this is America. You can see what happened in Europe when they tried socialism. Trump's the only one left, you may have your disagreements, but at least he's better than the other two

Inb4 uk posters saying the daily mail is bad

I'm not American so it really doesn't matter what I think of Trump I guess. If I were American I personally wouldn't vote for him. I would vote for Sanders if he won the nomination because of his ambitions for single payer, which I personally believe in, but I honestly don't think Sanders will win the nomination. I'm more of a centrist than I am left or right and I'm no more of a fan of Hillary as I am Trump... sorry Americans... and I thought my choices in our last election here was bad!

What I will say about Trump however is:
1. I don't think he is a racist despite how people try to twist what he says into looking like he is one. Sometimes that word is tossed around too loosely when people forget what racism and being prejudice really is in general. I think he's not "PC" and says things how he sees it, which may happen to be attractive to some racists in America but who likes you and what you are is two different things.
2. He probably would be okay for the American economy if he actually has a plan on bringing jobs back to America but that is yet to be seen I guess. Big if, I know.
3. I think that if he does happen to become president than some of his extreme exaggerations when it comes to world events (like nuke the middle east because of ISIS) would tone down once he actually had real advisors.

Do I like his rhetoric? Not really? He's got a big mouth and that's what he has going for him, which is either good or bad depending on your perspective. I personally like some of the other republican candidates better than Trump, but hey... the people spoke in the primaries so who am I to question that? I will admit though, sometimes I feel like his rhetoric is better than some SJWs in power around the world... not mentioning any names... Trudeau (and PS I actually voted for his party too... was it a mistake? xD)

Kitsunex wrote:

snip

Ignoring the DM article because Daily Mail is bad.

Including "retarded SJW" in actual political discussion is a good way for me to completely discredit your debate. Not sorry, there are better phrases for what you're looking for (namely "someone whose ideology I disagree with"), and it isn't really tone policing as much as trying to not be condescending to people you're discussing. I'm willing to respect those I disagree with if they're not trying to imply that they're better than me because I believe in being socially progressive.

I actually think that Bernie's proposed tax plan is a lot more feasible than some might think, it's all about fixing the distribution of wealth (and those who say there's no wealth inequality in the US have honestly not experienced the reality of the situation). Democratic socialism is a good way to even out things so that way we don't have as rampant rates of poverty, and redistributing where resources are actually being dispersed in the governmental hierarchy is a good way of funding these proposals. Thus the cost of providing free public university.

With regards to the lowered standards of free university: I'd like to see a bit of research. I will still say that a university degree is more akin to a high school diploma 20-30 years ago, after being in the work force for several years, and many jobs are even upping their qualifications to masters' degrees for even arts fields. Why not match the growing necessity for a bachelor's degree with ease of accessibility? Scholarships are only so limited and financial aid can only be stretched so far. We're in a student debt bubble, despite many students' best efforts to counter it.

With regards to the way Trump is now and the way the actual election will fall: there are still factors to be considered, such as VP candidate, cabinet, and congress, but I feel as though he mostly just wants the title of president, just from the way he carries himself. He's a member of the party, which means he's going to have various members of all extreme sides of the Republican party (from the more moderate, Hillary-like side to Tea Party extremism a la Cruz) all vying for his attention. I feel like Trump is, as such, very malleable if he were to take office, and will be the most obvious person influenced by both their party and Congress midterm elections.

With regards to Hillary: she's less progressive than Bernie, please stop having her be pinned as the progressive candidate. She's basically a slightly-more-right Obama. It's status quo. I'm not happy with the status quo, but I also lean further left so I would rather not have a conservative take center stage.

I'm also not gonna get into the issue of the wall because any congress worth their salt will shoot that down. It won't happen, it's the punchline to a political cartoon and the fact that people want it to happen only exposes further extreme xenophobia.

poor people need to get over their wealth fetish and just be thankful for what they have, you'll never be happy otherwise.
money really isn't everything, really it's barely anything.

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

poor people need to get over their wealth fetish and just be thankful for what they have, you'll never be happy otherwise.
money really isn't everything, really it's barely anything.

believe me, when i was broke, i would've loved to enjoy life if i wasn't pulling doubles to just ensure that our rent was paid/food was on the table/the lights were on/student loans were paid

it ain't a wealth fetish, making enough money to ensure even slightly more than just survival is important.

you made 2 mistakes it seems, supporting someone else and letting yourself get into debt. these are both luxuries and if you're not making much money best avoided, if you don't well... hardships are a given. Don't worry, it gets better. Probably.

that said sanders' approach to tertiary education was probably his biggest selling point for me, the government paying for people's college is a pretty safe investment when you consider their contribution to GDP is obviously going to be higher as a result unless they die young/move to another country. I really don't understand the aversion to the idea

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

you made 2 mistakes it seems, supporting someone else and letting yourself get into debt. these are both luxuries and if you're not making much money best avoided

We were both pulling our own weight to ensure the rent got paid, and student debt is different than normal debt. It's situation by situation (and personally my undergrad debt all came from dorm living thanks to scholarships; student debt accrues while you're in school and when you're a full-time student it's difficult to do more than just pay off interest).

I guess what I'm saying is: university is more than just a luxury in terms of finding a good job nowadays. Sure, you can, but too much in the current employment bracket requires at least a bachelor's to price university like a luxury.

that said sanders' approach to tertiary education was probably his biggest selling point for me, the government paying for people's college is a pretty safe investment when you consider their contribution to GDP is obviously going to be higher as a result unless they die young/move to another country. I really don't understand the aversion to the idea

Yeah, exactly! It's a lot more sure than detractors give it credit for.

but you don't need a good job to support yourself, in my experience you can do perfectly fine with $13 an hour full-time if you aren't materialistic and avoid debt

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

but you don't need a good job to support yourself, in my experience you can do perfectly fine with $13 an hour full-time if you aren't a materialist and avoid debt

Depends entirely on where you live. It's impossible to afford even a studio like that in a major city (where you can actually find the surplus of jobs compared to most rural areas and not spend an arm and a leg on commuting; I'm out in Boston, for instance, where that's just outright unreasonable). Again, it's all situational.

It's also a lifestyle that makes it excruciatingly difficult to build equity. There's more to life than being a workhorse, and being able to afford that occasional expense means a lot to someone's sanity.

fair enough, i do live in a fairly 'backwater' part of the country i suppose, i don't know i don't really feel it, but cities are fucking terrifying i prefer free & quiet to crowded & loud even if i could ride a bike to work and make more money

i don't really see spending money as being important to sanity either though, i rather just save up what little is left over for the next time something bad happens, it's a lot more important to be able to bounce back from those kinds of events with ease in my opinion

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

i don't really see spending money as being important to sanity either though

I don't mean the act of spending money for the sake of spending money, but engaging in a hobby or even just having a nicer dinner than normal for a single night. You shouldn't have to worry about your rent and utilities by going to see a movie or by having a pizza once every like, 2 months.

i guess since my hobbies being talking to people on the internet, contact juggling, and video games aren't very financially demanding I'm pretty lucky. There's a lot of really expensive interests out there and while I might love to be able to afford them I'm glad my current ones aren't pushing me towards wanting them.

i also prefer bland food to anything complex or fancy i've had, potato chunks in plain tomato paste is just satisfying.

I guess my point is you can be fulfilled without making a lot of money, but some strive to make more and while I don't really relate, but I understand it because capitalism and consumerism are a difficult thing to prevent being hammered into your brain by things like television, why spin a pen or flip a balisong when you can build & tune motorcycles & cars or fly all over the world! And all that fancy painted food with the dramatic camera panning is really tempting too, if they let too many people like me think a simple bowl of grits or chili trumps their $50 plate of random shit the industry as a whole hurts.

in conclusion im not hating on people that make more money, but I think a lot of them are setting themselves up for hardships they could have avoided and so should bite the bullet until they reach the top of the hill, then they can start being satisfied hopefully. It's a lot more trouble but maybe worth it, i don't know.

Exception goes to people born into wealth, no respect for them but from what I can tell you aren't among them.

Mogsworth wrote:

Kitsunex wrote:

snip

Ignoring the DM article because Daily Mail is bad.

Called it.