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posted
When I mentioned by the end of 2 I meant something like this


Right now the lead into the slider loop feels a bit too linear and not arc'd enough. I think by lowering 2 just a bit you would get even more of that feeling leading into the loop. Any lower than this and as you mentioned it becomes more harsh again.

Especially considering having it up that high feels contradictory to the idea of putting a dip in your 1 slider (I know that's mostly just for the blanket). You end up with this nice dip on 1 and then you suddenly jump way up high which kind of breaks the flow you have going on here.

Furthermore your slider on the white tick is a loop slider without any SV increase so it effectively is slower than straighter sliders (see: Tsubaki) at this SV thus you wouldn't expect this to be combined with a significantly above average sized jump (04:51:858 (2) - Prev 1.11x, Next 2.49x ; 04:55:145 (2) - Prev 1.76x, Next 2.36x; vs. 04:56:789 (2) - Prev 2.61x, Next 2.35x).

I know that this is a bit of a nitpick of a mod but this map is so complicated I feel like it's easy for things like this to just go completely unnoticed. Hopefully this clears things up a bit more.

Edit:
Didn't really feel like doing a full mod but might as well while I'm here wasting time with this. List of doubles that I think might flow better if ctl+g'd (take with grain of salt I guess)

01:31:412 (1,2) - follows the back and forth motion of the succeeding sliders a bit better imo
04:47:851 (1,2) - flows out of 5 and spirals inward to the slider
04:58:947 (1,2) - the flow break on the ending slider here feels really harsh. It doesn't feel as bad when it breaks every 2 circles (back and forth) as opposed to suddenly on the slider. Alternatively flipping the 2nd pair would give you a better emphasis onto 04:59:358 (1,2) -
05:33:262 (1,2) - flows out of 3 a lot better
-----
04:29:358 (1) - Also, it triggers me that these extend over the red tick. Somehow I can tell there is a beat being held over without even having to open editor and listen for it. It's a really subtle change in sound on the red ticks so most people probably won't notice it. I would have considered doing 3 (4?) repeat sliders (1/2 1/2 1/1). I think what I'm hearing is like a fortepiano on the red tick followed by another crescendo so it sounds like a slight dip in volume followed by more increase.
posted

chainpullz wrote:

When I mentioned by the end of 2 I meant something like this


Right now the lead into the slider loop feels a bit too linear and not arc'd enough. I think by lowering 2 just a bit you would get even more of that feeling leading into the loop. Any lower than this and as you mentioned it becomes more harsh again. hm ok I guess it does transition into the loop a little better

Especially considering having it up that high feels contradictory to the idea of putting a dip in your 1 slider (I know that's mostly just for the blanket). You end up with this nice dip on 1 and then you suddenly jump way up high which kind of breaks the flow you have going on here. I don't really think it disrupts flow due to the speed of the movement combined with slider leniency; from what I've seen players just ignore the shape of the path

Furthermore your slider on the white tick is a loop slider without any SV increase so it effectively is slower than straighter sliders I get what you mean... but I wouldn't describe loop sliders as slower. I think it's better to say that they generally condense movement closer within the range of slider leniency, resulting in a shape more forgiving compared to others. Despite that, imo it balances out with the complexity of the motion :p



I know that this is a bit of a nitpick of a mod but this map is so complicated I feel like it's easy for things like this to just go completely unnoticed. Hopefully this clears things up a bit more.
I'll lower 04:56:789 (2) a bit when the next BN comes
actually nvm fixed now

edit:

chainpullz wrote:

Edit:
Didn't really feel like doing a full mod but might as well while I'm here wasting time with this. List of doubles that I think might flow better if ctl+g'd (take with grain of salt I guess)

01:31:412 (1,2) - follows the back and forth motion of the succeeding sliders a bit better imo actually these used to be back and forth but I decided from a previous mod that it would be better to introduce this pattern in an easier form with less movement
04:47:851 (1,2) - flows out of 5 and spirals inward to the slider Creating a back and forth double pair here would go against my alternating movement pattern. In the last kias I switch between sharp angled and wide angled flow depending on the pitch of the melody, and this is a less intense part so I'll keep this.
04:58:947 (1,2) - the flow break on the ending slider here feels really harsh. It doesn't feel as bad when it breaks every 2 circles (back and forth) as opposed to suddenly on the slider. Doesn't play that harsh to me being slider to circle, and the very edge of 04:58:536 (3) - leads into it a bit. Also a ctrl+g will break the pattern I mentioned above Alternatively flipping the 2nd pair would give you a better emphasis onto 04:59:358 (1,2) - in terms of movement this would be wayyy out of place
05:33:262 (1,2) - flows out of 3 a lot better I don't feel any difference since it's right after a short repeat slider with no movement, plus I want to keep the amount of direction change going into 05:33:467 (1)
-----
04:29:358 (1) - Also, it triggers me that these extend over the red tick. Somehow I can tell there is a beat being held over without even having to open editor and listen for it. It's a really subtle change in sound on the red ticks so most people probably won't notice it. I would have considered doing 3 (4?) repeat sliders (1/2 1/2 1/1). I think what I'm hearing is like a fortepiano on the red tick followed by another crescendo so it sounds like a slight dip in volume followed by more increase. uh I seriously don't hear anything lol. Regardless I'd rather keep the 1/8 repeats of equal length just for simplicity's sake, especially when they're extended to the max
updated
posted
just a few things before i press the button

01:11:070 (3,4,1) - flow is a bit awkward here, 01:11:275 (1) - should start somewhere like x:156 y:80
01:31:412 (1,2) - ctrl+g on this plays much better due to the oval flow on 01:31:618 (1,2,1,2)
01:50:625 (5) - surprised you didn't cover the drum roll here
03:53:193 (6) - based on how you hitsounded this it should be 2 1/4 sliders
04:48:056 (1,2) - i would ctrl+g this, similar phases before used opposite direction patterns
05:01:412 (1,2,3) - super difficult to play here, it would be better if you followed a more natural flow
posted

jonathanlfj wrote:

just a few things before i press the button

01:11:070 (3,4,1) - flow is a bit awkward here, 01:11:275 (1) - should start somewhere like x:156 y:80 It does break flow a bit but I do think the song calls for it, plus it's circle to slider. I reduced the spacing a bit though
01:31:412 (1,2) - ctrl+g on this plays much better due to the oval flow on 01:31:618 (1,2,1,2) well it was for the sake of introducing the pattern in a less intense form but alright this is how it was originally
01:50:625 (5) - surprised you didn't cover the drum roll here mapped
03:53:193 (6) - based on how you hitsounded this it should be 2 1/4 sliders yeah
04:48:056 (1,2) - i would ctrl+g this, similar phases before used opposite direction patterns asdf
05:01:412 (1,2,3) - super difficult to play here, it would be better if you followed a more natural flow nerfed
posted
nathan techniques
posted
Wow great xd
posted
Some 1/8 sliders seem to be overmapped throughout the whole set or are either mapped to a very faint sound that can also be considered overmapped.

00:49:495 (1) - 1/8 is overmapped
01:16:001 (1) - there actually isn't a buzz sound here
01:20:933 (1) - ^
02:10:248 (2) - not 1/8, theres actually just two notes 1/16 apart or so
02:11:275 (6) - there actually isn't a buzz sound here too
02:11:686 (1,2) - ^
02:17:851 (1,1,1) - the 1/8 actually plays from 02:17:851 - 02:18:467 - not split upon each other
02:19:084 (1) - again, no buzz
02:20:727 (1) - ^ and about every 1/8 slider in this kiai section

There are probably more around that I haven't caught.
posted
02:11:275 (6) -
02:11:686 (1,2) -
these definitely do have a 1/8 triple on them

the rest are used for the effect of the extended sound, which imo it has been acceptable to use a buzz slider to represent held sounds like this. no reason to change
posted
other opinions

14:46 sukiNathan: yo can you give me an opinion on something rn
14:46 Seouless: sure
14:47 sukiNathan: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5343429
14:47 sukiNathan: do u think the 1/8 repeats fit
14:49 Seouless: tbh
14:49 Seouless: they play fine for me
14:49 Seouless: as i dont know what you could do as an alternative
14:49 sukiNathan: yeah
14:49 sukiNathan: most of them are meant to just differentiate sounds
14:50 sukiNathan: like the ones in the first kiais
14:50 sukiNathan: like they aren't necessarily mapped to clear 1/8 sounds
14:50 sukiNathan: but it's kind of just an ambiguous buzz sample
14:50 sukiNathan: i mean these 02:20:727 (1) -
14:50 Seouless: yeah those sliders play well
14:50 sukiNathan: 01:16:001 (1) - same idea here
14:51 sukiNathan: 02:10:248 (2) - these should be 1/8 for sure though
14:51 sukiNathan: what do you hear
14:52 Seouless: that's a 1/8
14:52 Seouless: for sure
14:53 sukiNathan: hm ok ty
14:53 Seouless: np
14:53 Seouless: i dont think this should be a map where you follow every little ambiguous sound
14:53 Seouless: your rhythm choice makes sense
14:16 sukiNathan: yo do you mind giving an opinion on something
14:17 [Toy]: ok
14:18 sukiNathan: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5343429
14:18 sukiNathan: just tell me if u think they're fitting or what u hear w/e
14:19 [Toy]: youre asking me ?
14:20 sukiNathan: yeah
14:20 [Toy]: i didnt realize this was qual shit
14:22 [Toy]: i dont hear a 1/8 in the first comment
14:22 [Toy]: the buzz has sounds on the red and blue tick
14:23 sukiNathan: hm
14:23 sukiNathan: the first one is meant to be for build up
14:23 sukiNathan: using the bg thing
14:24 sukiNathan: 2nd one is just
14:24 [Toy]: i like what you did
14:24 [Toy]: i think it works
14:24 sukiNathan: a sound that really stands out
14:24 sukiNathan: ye
14:24 [Toy]: could it work as a 1/4 slider
14:24 sukiNathan: definitely not in this bpm/context
14:24 sukiNathan: 1/4 sliders would be devalued if I did that
14:25 sukiNathan: some repeats are mapped to clear 1/8
14:25 sukiNathan: while ones like 02:20:727 (1) - are a bit ambiguous
14:25 sukiNathan: but idk I hear a buzz on that
14:25 [Toy]: 02:10:248 (2) -
14:25 [Toy]: this works
14:25 sukiNathan: yeah that's absolutely 1/8 for sure
14:26 [Toy]: im not sure if most of these really matter if theyre overmapped
14:26 [Toy]: since theyre repeat sliders
14:26 sukiNathan: ye
14:26 sukiNathan: most of them are just meant to differentiate sounds
14:39 sukiNathan: do u mind giving an opinion on something in a map
14:55 MillhioreF: sure
14:56 sukiNathan: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5343429
14:56 *sukiNathan is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/978628 kors k - Insane Techniques (Extended) [Hi-Tech]]
14:57 sukiNathan: most of the 1/8 repeats were just used to differentiate sounds that stood out to me
14:57 sukiNathan: 02:28:947 (1) - like these
14:57 sukiNathan: 01:16:001 (1) -
14:57 sukiNathan: do you think they're warranted
14:58 MillhioreF: hard to say
14:58 MillhioreF: I like them personally but they're 100% overmapping
14:59 sukiNathan: ya that's what some people have said
14:59 sukiNathan: like it fits but it's overmapped at the same time
14:59 sukiNathan: lol
14:59 MillhioreF: I'd probably have given the extra repeats 50% volume or something but it's not a big deal either way
15:04 sukiNathan: hm well do you think it's acceptable
15:05 sukiNathan: i've asked 4 other people and they pretty much said the same thing
15:05 MillhioreF: it's right on the border, I wouldn't DQ over it but I'd probably back up someone else if they DQ'd the map
15:05 MillhioreF: I like it but I'm not sure the rules do
15:06 sukiNathan: mk
14:04 Broccoly: even if there r no 1/8 using 1/8 repeats to express 1/4 element is a valid mapping technique in my book...
14:04 Broccoly: or using 1/4 repeat to express 1/2
14:04 sukiNathan: same
14:04 sukiNathan: it's only 1 click in the end anyways
14:04 Broccoly: 00:44:602 (3,4) - i did stuff like this in
14:04 *Broccoly is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/416211 ayaponzu* - Otsukimi Recital [Broccoly's Extra]]
14:04 Broccoly: exactly
posted
A lot of the 1/8 repeat sliders seem to follow this sort of pattern

0/8: "held" note begins
1/8: "held" note releases
2/8: new sound

Probably an improper way to use the term "held note" since a lot of these are things like bass hits or whatnot that simply take time to actually decay.

A 1/4 slider would probably be a bit awkward because the kick only lasts 1/8 of a beat and I'm pretty sure the intention was to reduce the number of clickables throughout the map so mapping more doubles defeats the purpose (and there are a lot of those already anyways). I think the 1/8 repeat slider reaches a decent compromise in this case where the "overmapped" tick signals the end of the "held" note.
posted
04:13 *ktgster is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/978628 kors k - Insane Techniques (Extended) [Hi-Tech]]
04:13 ktgster: basically about everything here https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5343429
04:15 Zare: 00:49:495 (1,2) - i understand these
04:15 Zare: i wouldnt say there's a distinct sound on these ticks but they have some echoing effect and considering its only a reverse arrow i think its fine rhytmically
04:16 ktgster: those can barely function tbh
04:16 ktgster: but it can also just be a simple whiff and no note techincally exists on those 1/8's
04:18 Zare: 01:16:001 (1) - this is probably wrong
04:18 ktgster: i find it best to not slap on the 25%
04:18 Zare: but it doesnt feel bad in the map
04:19 Zare: im doing both
04:19 Zare: i listen to it at 25 and at 100
04:19 Zare: that one doesnt feel bad despite being technically wrong imo
04:20 Zare: 02:10:248 (2) - there's 100% definitely and undebatably 1/8 here
04:21 ktgster: it sounds more like a note ending at 1/8
04:21 Zare: 02:11:275 (6) - same for this
04:21 Zare: there's a beat
04:21 Zare: in the back
04:21 Zare: on the 1/8s here
04:21 Zare: it's pretty audible for me
04:22 ktgster: im using my crappy speakers here
04:22 Zare: 02:11:686 (1,2) - these are correct as well
04:22 Zare: using relatively decent headphones
04:22 Zare: they're 100% there
04:23 ktgster: honestly
04:23 ktgster: its the kiai ones
04:23 ktgster: that i don't get
04:24 Zare: 02:17:851 (1,1) - these are wrong
04:24 Zare: i dont hear 1/8 specifically
04:24 ktgster: theres a static sound there that i hear
04:25 ktgster: its actually 1/16 though lol
04:26 ktgster: or 1/4
04:26 Zare: http://puu.sh/qdnlq.jpg
04:26 Zare: thats what I hear in the back
04:26 Zare: disregarding the note on blue tick ofc
04:27 ktgster: yeah idk
04:27 Zare: which is 1/6 into 1/2
04:28 Zare: the kiai sliders are just weird
04:28 Zare: no reason for them
04:28 Zare: absolutely zero
04:28 ktgster: nathan said that he hears an 1/8 buzz for some reason
04:29 Zare: nah
04:29 Zare: there's nothing
04:29 Zare: should I post this log to thread?
04:29 ktgster: probably more a post to things that are off to you
04:30 ktgster: i don't like his responses from other people
04:30 Zare: but id need to write it all again
04:30 Zare: lol


So ktg asked me to take a look and the results aaaaaare:

00:49:495 (1,2) - these are kinda awkward, there are no distinct 1/8s, there's some echoing at best. It doesn't feel bad to play tho so it's probably fine
01:16:001 (1) - no 1/8 here, technically incorrect slider. Again, this one doesn't feel bad in play tho and enhances what you were emphasiszing so I'd say it's k
02:10:248 (2) - 02:11:275 (6) - 02:11:686 (1,2) - these are perfectly fine. There's audible 1/8 in the back
02:17:851 (1,1) - this is super weird. I don't actually hear any 1/8, if anything I hear something on the first 4 1/6 ticks? http://puu.sh/qdnVL.jpg basically this

then the 1/8 sliders in your kia, i.e. 02:19:084 (1) - 02:20:727 (1) - and so on are all completely unjustified, I don't here any 1/8s here to explain the kicks and they feel extremely weird because they break the flow of the rhythm so much and frankly they should be changed.
posted
nathan asked for my onion

deetz - Today at 11:03 PM
ok
the ones before 02:17:851 (1,1) - are fine for reasons that would make me repeat what's already in the thread
extra emphasis thats perfectly readable as well as normal 1/8 sounds used reasonably within context
02:17:851 (1,1) - i disagree with zare on this
im pretty sure the thing he called 1/6 is a completely different sound
and theres a constant buzz that it's 100% fine to map 1/8 on
imo
feels good
and splitting it up emphasizes the sound thing
lol
stuff in the kiai im not so sure about
hold effect feels super good for
bass sound
and buzz sliders are generally accepted for
that sort of effect
so the bass emphasis thing works
its just
it sounds kind of loud for me
like
really noisy
lol
sukiNathan - Today at 11:10 PM
ya millhi mentioned the volume
deetz - Today at 11:10 PM
and its too reminiscent to the actual 1/8 before
maybe soft would have been a better choice

sukiNathan - Today at 11:12 PM
same
if i cant keep the buzz sliders i basically have to remap the kiais
://
:L
deetz - Today at 11:14 PM
i think u can keep them
if they're soft
sampleset
not normal
which is liek
sukiNathan - Today at 11:14 PM
i suppose
deetz - Today at 11:14 PM
dDRDRDRDRFR
DRILL
IN MY EAR
NEW MESSAGES
sukiNathan - Today at 11:15 PM
i dont mind fixing that
xd


basically:
-the 1/8 sliders before 02:17:851 - are all just fine for reasons that have already been mentioned multiple times. read the log if you want to read what i think i guess.

-02:17:851 (1,1) - even if there is a 1/6 sound its weird and distorted while the buzz remains constant and separate so i didn't feel anything weird about this. splitting them up is fine because the 1/4 sounds cut out at 02:18:159 - ; it's a nice way of providing extra emphasis

-usage of the buzz sliders themselves is good and works to emphasize the bass sound that sounds held out a little bit; pretty interesting and it's a technique that's been used before to great success. first transition of buzz slider -> blue tick slider is readable by approach circle and by being so close and the rest come naturally after catching that rhythm.

-however, i do think that as they are they are really noisy and that normal sampleset was not a good choice. it would feel much better if they were soft sampleset instead
posted
i think the 1/8 repeats are fitting
posted
1/8s seem fitting while playing and in editor i m o oo o ooo o o
posted
dropping

all of 1/8 i find it being used there to give something like hold feeling to emphasis how those beat extend the sound of them there
either way i still find myself hearing something like echo sound from the beat before them there so yea
posted
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