btw why Maximum the is in the tags when it's in the artist already
lol this is really invalidhi-mei wrote:
<3 kagetsu
one of few that deserves respect
if you wanna hear community, just take a look on this:
quoting random people that dont know shit in mapping and saying "hey nice map" has 0 effective value
kagetsu not the last one to pop this
what do u mean by quality?My Angel Azusa wrote:
lol this is really invalidhi-mei wrote:
<3 kagetsu
one of few that deserves respect
if you wanna hear community, just take a look on this:
quoting random people that dont know shit in mapping and saying "hey nice map" has 0 effective value
kagetsu not the last one to pop this
People rate low for various reasons, not just because this map sucks or it lacks quality.
For some maps players rate very low because of bad song choice/bad anime/no pp/too much pp etc.
In case of ALIEN most players find it extremely difficult and uncomfortable to play so they rate 1 star, however this still doesn't contribute to anything about its quality.
lol whathi-mei wrote:
mapping quality is delusion.
Quality is all subjective. This map isn't designed to be quality in an aesthetic sense, which goes against these "fundamentals" you're talking about, I guess. That doesn't mean it can't be good though?hi-mei wrote:
what do u mean by quality?
lets be real here.
mapping quality is delusion.
it rather comes to the point, whether the map is in adequate state to this game or not.
for now its far from most of fundamentals people were developing over the years.
It's something different, yes, but what's wrong with mapping something new, something different? Variety is important in any sense, and sometimes it's good to push the boundaries and see what can be done.hi-mei wrote:
i mean, for monstrata its not even the deal about this map, its a challenge for him to rank something that literally nobody can.
Well... who is he meant to ask? Like any other mapper, he wants to rank something, he has to ask others for help, no?hi-mei wrote:
he is asking many people to help him and promises his help in return (bubble for bubble huh?)
quote hime:Cygnus wrote:
Honestly, I find the map really horrible but not in the sense of calling it unrankable. It just doesn't fall to most people's subjective taste in mapping and I believe we should all just respect each others' opinion. The map is indeed hard and the playability is very much questionable due to its peculiar patterns but as I said, none of these parts are unrankable. The ranking criteria do not state that if a map is hated by most of the community, it shouldn't be ranked (basing this on the preliminary user rating).
The idea is simple: if you do not like a map, point your concern and suggest a solution. If your suggestion has been rejected, reconsider whether your concern points out unrankability or just something that doesn't fit your taste in mapping. If your concern doesn't involve unrankability, then just leave it as it is and respect the mapper's decision. No need to spread hate and gather people to tell the mapper how horrible the map is. The map just did not satisfy your taste, but that doesn't matter because ranking maps should only satisfy the requirements stated in the Ranking Criteria. So in this case, your best solution is to just ignore the map and move on (or you could make a map of your own).
Okay there goes my two cents on the issue. ^^ Here's a little mod btw:
[Stop! Stop Winny Upload!!]
• 00:21:206 (1) - Remove the new combo here and put it on 00:21:419 (2) instead just to be consistent with your new combos since you added new combos on parts where the singer starts singing like on 00:23:131 (1) -, 00:24:842 (1) -, and 00:26:553 (1) -. I want to NC them to the drum instead of just vocal since I think this NC rhythm makes more sense to me anyways.
• 00:48:623 (1,2) - This one is fine as it is but I find the playability on this part much better if the slider goes first before the hit circle. Try it for yourself. This also applies to the rest like on 00:49:515 (1) -, 00:50:384 (1) -, and I think the succeeding 3 more of these. I prefer the current arrangement,
The 1/4 repeats from earlier give an adequate flow since you have time to hover and reset movement while playing them, similar to triplets.
• 01:24:363 (1) - Same new combo suggestion like on 00:21:206 (1) -. Same. Bearing in mind I'm also NC"ing for pattern distinction too,
this slider belongs with the other sliders not with the linear ones in terms of visual representation and relation.
• 01:46:531 (1) - I don't think a new combo is necessary here? Ah, its necessary but on the wrong slider good find. Fixed
• 04:45:311 (1) - Use the brownish new combo instead since it's a heart-shaped slider? XD But its the beautiful section and thats a beautiful heart slider </3
Best of luck getting this ranked. Will stay tuned to this map :3
No. The song is ugly. Time signatures and BPM changes all over the place, it doesn't follow any pattern at all. He mapped it ugly because MTH made an ugly song. It's not any classic death metal songs with double-pedals going on for 2 minutes and a half. You're comparing apples and carrots.Gokateigo wrote:
my opiniongl I guessThis map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting, Mazzerin maps death metal and thinks song representation is more important than aesthetics. His maps are NOT ugly af, they are a bit ugly sometimes (with really ugly sounds, not everything) but his style fits very well to metal, you should map something similar to his style in the "ugly" part and map ugly sliders when they are in the middle of the calm part because you can't change your style for 2 objects. If you map something like this I'll bee happy if it's ranked, it's just a random shit map atm for me
Beauty is suggestive, some people (like me) can enjoy the song, song "beauty" shouldn't be used as a gimmick for maps cuz you can't be objective with it and it lead to something like this thread. Irregular rythms songs can be very good (roze for example), I'm not comparing apples and carrotsmvb wrote:
No. The song is ugly. Time signatures and BPM changes all over the place, it doesn't follow any pattern at all. He mapped it ugly because MTH made an ugly song. It's not any classic death metal songs with double-pedals going on for 2 minutes and a half. You're comparing apples and carrots.
EDIT: Can y'all stop caring about difficulty and care about mapping please thanks
??????UnstoppableVP wrote:
Just because Vaxei can mash his way through this map with dt doesn't necessarily mean it's playable
Thanks for the comments!fieryrage wrote:
this just in Monstrata Goes Balls Deep and this thread is a shitshow
i'm gonna remod from a player perspective this time cuz i really don't care about the aesthetics of this map like everyone else, you don't have to give kds since the map really hasn't changed but idc xdNo, I prefer the sideways jump, it's a nice variation.
- this map should REALLY be od 9.7 at least, I pointed this out in the previous mod I gave alongside the AR (which you changed god bless you), I know there's no notelock potential but there's really no reason for an 8+ star map to have an OD less than 9.5 honestly with how difficult the jumps are lol OD 9.4 is fine. You didn't really give any reason other than "its too low". But I already stated that OD 9.4 is high enough to avoid any potential notelocking.
- 00:28:922 (1,2,3,4) - this is probably the most awkward to hit pattern of the mini-jumps in this section and imo it's actually because this is not "ugly" enough, Already fixed, i guess update lol
there's a distinct sort of patterning with 00:30:624 (1,2,3,4) - and 00:34:046 (1,2,3,4) - that's just lost in the square here- 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - bro u butchered this so badly what the heck this fits WAY more as jumps instead of stacks I like this better,
Discussed it with Kite who gave me the idea. Keeping it.- 00:40:812 (6,1) - would personally increase the spacing here, i keep overaiming this as it stands rn and it doesn't feel really that emphasized Increased it slightly.
- 00:44:449 (2,3) - idk if this was the same in the previous iteration of the map but on the contrary this feels way TOO emphasized, placing it near 00:43:799 (3) Lowered it a bit.
would be a lot better imo- 00:48:192 (3,4) - was better as one repeat slider since you keep consistency with 00:29:347 (5) - this section No, it needs to be two repeats to keep the intensityand consistency with 01:41:058 (1,2) -.
- 00:49:949 (1,2,3,4) - what happen 2 the spacing here lol Nothing, that's intentional
- 00:53:096 (2,3) - ^ Same, intentional.
- 00:57:079 (5,6,1) - the new pattern in general is pretty cool but i'm not a huge fan of having an obtuse angle here, just personal preference tho xd Yea I want to keep cuz I like it.
- 01:02:008 (5,6,7,8) - idk if you meant to change the spacing on these last two jumps but if you did then k hand: since it really doesn't affect anything I'll keep xp
- 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - alright so this is basically the only problem i have with the entire map (plus the other section like this), while this is definitely an intense section of the song i feel representing this with 1/4 kicksliders especially at this high of a bpm and this awkward of an angle is ridiculous; it's a lot better to play with ar 10 now but it still just feels so out of place with the rest of the song, even just increasing the spacing of how far apart these are would make this so much easier to play imo since they feel so clustered together for no particular reason (obviously this goes for 02:26:362 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - these sections too but that's a lot more iffy of a solution) Definitely keeping the kicksliders, thats a given. I shifted the angles slightly and made the spacing more consistent from head to head.
- 01:47:749 - you can be edgy here and add a note for the guitar xd No, theres not enough time for it as I've said xP.
- 02:25:494 (1,2,3,4,5) - make this a star jump tbh, could be a lot more intense here than just a pentagon Fine, since many ppl want that.
- 02:26:362 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - fuck this part No, keeping xP
- 02:43:685 (1,2) - better as a vertical jump than a sideways jump imo
slow section i'm not gonna bother modding
it's not unplayable, idk why people say it is, just a few jumps flow awkwardly but I'm assuming that's the point of the map so it's not like it's surprising
the only main issue I have with the map is how awkward the 1/4 slider spam is to play which can be easily remedied with more spacing or changing the pattern
but yea those are my thoughts xd
i've already pointed my reasons about why i think the playability of this map is flawed, stuff like seeing a lot of players playing the map, the ar being too low, unpredictable transitions that could be improved, exaggerated spacing considering how high the bpm is, etc.Irreversible wrote:
@Kagetsu:
If you want to keep up your veto, then please proceed with properly argumenting why exactly this map is not playable -
as far i know, i can veto any map, under objective or subjective issues. saying that its playability isn't the best might be subjective, but i've already stated my reasons. so i don't see why the veto would be invalid.Irreversible wrote:
simply stating something is not playable is not a reason why you can veto this map. The map has structure, is mapped to the song and makes sense, so simply saying it's not playable is definitely not enough.
i don't know what would make my argument or any other modder argument stronger. under that kind of reasoning i could say that "increasing spacing in order to emphasize sounds in the music" is a weak argument because you can't prove it actually emphasizes something. playability and "mapping theory" in general, is something agreed upon, and as such, i have the right to say this map playability is bad under the reasons stated before.Irreversible wrote:
the argument "it's unplayable" is REALLY weak.
Seeing a lot of players playing the map doesn't determine a map is unplayable. I repeatedly asked you to back up your statement, and all I got was "playability is subjective, no example you give me will convince me". The AR being too low doesn't make the map unplayable. Does it make the map harder to read? Possibly. We are talking a difference of 28 ms though. Like I said, a value above 428 ms will actually have no effect on the density of notes appearing on the screen, the approach rate will just be higher, period. Usually you recommend higher approach rates because they can contribute to leaving a map less cluttered, but I hope I've been able to argue factually that anything AR 10.2 or over would have made no difference to object density until you got to AR 10.6... As well, I've already explained that the "unpredictable transition" (singular, you only pointed out one instance) was not unpredictable and had been tested and analyzed by multiple modders and BN's, not to mention the other 63 odd pages of discussion that has gone into this thread.Kagetsu wrote:
i've already pointed my reasons about why i think the playability of this map is flawed, stuff like seeing a lot of players playing the map, the ar being too low, unpredictable transitions that could be improved, exaggerated spacing considering how high the bpm is, etc.Irreversible wrote:
@Kagetsu:
If you want to keep up your veto, then please proceed with properly argumenting why exactly this map is not playable -
Kagetsu wrote:
as far i know, i can veto any map, under objective or subjective issues. saying that its playability isn't the best might be subjective, but i've already stated my reasons. so i don't see why the veto would be invalid.Irreversible wrote:
simply stating something is not playable is not a reason why you can veto this map. The map has structure, is mapped to the song and makes sense, so simply saying it's not playable is definitely not enough.
Yes, you can veto, but your justification is extremely weak, if even existent. Read our discord log again, see how many times i asked you to provide any sort of "evidence" for why you think the map is unplayable. You keep dodging the question, or only using your own experience, never quoting anyone, or misquoting people. "I think the top score was made by someone with a touch pad" "I think Kynan said AR 10 was bad" (no he said AR 9.7). You can do better than this, surelyKagetsu wrote:
i don't know what would make my argument or any other modder argument stronger. under that kind of reasoning i could say that "increasing spacing in order to emphasize sounds in the music" is a weak argument because you can't prove it actually emphasizes something. playability and "mapping theory" in general, is something agreed upon, and as such, i have the right to say this map playability is bad under the reasons stated before.Irreversible wrote:
the argument "it's unplayable" is REALLY weak.
others nominators are free to overwrite my opinion by placing a bubble. isn't it how this system works?
Thanks for your concerns~-Nishiki- wrote:
since it looks like you're serious about this i'll put a few of my thoughts in.
no need for kudosu if this is bad mod.Stop! Stop Winny Upload!!you might wanna rethink the samplesounds.
01:06:090 (1,1,1) - i think a few jumps here would work better than a spinner. Spinner works better. I want to use a spinner because people will still play spinners as a fast gameplay element. When you see a spinner, you move really fast, you don't sit idly by so the intensity is kept. I don't want to use streams because the timing is really messed up, and the section doesn't call for intense rhythm because they are preceded by slow sliders.
01:59:903 (2,3) - something like pictured below matches the gimmick of sv change in the map as well as unpredictability better than how it is now. (slider velocity for second slider is 1.4x) Well, first, there is no gimmick of SV change... and secondly this is a quiet section, I think its better to use predictable patterns. It's also not a really ugly section which is why you see some more visual patterning and aesthetics.
02:02:231 (1) - i think this should be a lengthened slider similar to 01:59:903 (2,2,2) before it. No, its a pause xP.
02:18:765 (1,2) - a more dramatic sv change to contrast to the short spacing of 02:18:402 (3,4,5) before it and 02:19:370 (3,4,5) after it would work better aesthetically in my opinion. I think it works just fine here. The idea is to make the downbeat a jump so players who try to alternate the short spaced stacks will be forced to do a really big jump here and that creates emphasis onto the sliderhead itself.
02:43:900 (1,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2) - since this section of the song is much more comprehensible than the parts before it,circular flow seems fairly beneficial to the music's tone.i'd go back and forth between both clockwise and counter clockwise circular flow. The flow used here already does that. It's perfectly fine imo, but you really have to consider slider leniency when looking at those sliders xP.
03:03:317 (3) - this should be extended to a white tick. No, cuz of vocals.
03:07:390 (1) - imo this should be a circle to match 03:05:329 (1) before it. They are both sliders tho xP. Also slider fits better.
03:11:415 (1) - it'd be a bit more fitting for this to be aheartor at least some slider art.i'd also recommend having the slider end at 03:14:868 rather than 03:13:946 . This is currently a slider art too, its a loop slider thats perfectly symmetrical.
04:45:311 (1) - ^ maybe not a heart because that'd kinda be redundant since this exists. It's more fitting to end with a heart though <3
otherwise pretty good map.matches the song well and play's fine if you're actually decent unlike me.don't understand the controversy.
Kurai wrote:
Few things I noticed while testplaying the map:
- 00:42:622 (1) - I would ctrl+G this slider. I would be more illustrative of the sudden fierceness upsurge in the vocals. And to be honest, it is more intuitive to play as it would be consistent with how the previous pattern is structured. DId it differently. I agree it could flow a bit better.
- 01:36:344 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - I had some trouble understanding this pattern while testplaying the map. It sounded extremely off. I tried listening to the music more carefully and it is just as if the singer switched to 1/6 yet you used 1/4 triples. However it is not 1/6 but to me it sounds like there is a 3/8 distance between those notes (whhich is pretty representative of how chaotic this section is). Try changing your timeline to the screenshot below, it should fit the music better:
THe current rhythm is entirely based off 01:34:630 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - but denser to account for the vocal on blue tick. For example, if you just removed the circle on 01:36:505 (2) - etc.... it would be the same rhythm as earlier. I just upped the density since the song is denser. I suppose the only issue I had was 01:36:933 (6) - being a bit off for vocals, but I think players can still read this rhythm and understand it's effect.- 04:25:863 (2) - Do you really need this circle since you never map the 1/4 when the singer starts saying "stop stop"? Seems weird to me. There are drums being introduced in the bg, and the rhythm does become a bit more dense with those triplets and streams that I introduce.
MaridiuS wrote:
thing i noticed other than slider style:
firstly I think you could use socially acceptable sliders here 02:36:797 - to 02:43:900 - Since it has no vocals on sliders, and make em disgusting when there's the hey added. No, i disagree, I think this part still deserves ugly sliders. (made one of them uglier)Now rhythm for the sections is ughhh:
02:44:346 (2,3) - this is fine but 02:44:792 (2,3) - this make s me want to kill myself, compared to the previous one, there no kick on the red tick, and not hitsoundend, nor anything that sounds clickable to me, therefore I believe it should be a slider. 02:45:684 (2,3) - same for this 02:48:346 (2,3) - 02:49:231 (2,3) - tbh its an overmap. This rhythm is a lot more consistent and makes more sense. Using slider spam here makes the map way too simple imo.
Kurai wrote:
good luck big boy