zzzzzz someone lock this thread until someone actually relevant has anything to say pls.
E X A C T L Y, you don't seem to understand that this is what monstrata wants, he made it ugly to fit the song, and him being able to do that when we know he can map other maps much 'cleaner' shows that this can't just be monstrata being lazy.Gokateigo wrote:
You can't say it's a good style, it's ugly on purpose stfu
This right here is why this map should be ranked. The mapping and the song bring something special to the table that really has not been done before. This map is something far out there in terms of uniqueness and it is important that a gem such as this gets the recognition it deserves. Honestly? I am disappointed that this map had far too much resistance for no well explained reason.Monstrata wrote:
The ugly sliders work well because there is a juxtaposition to a more beautiful section later. If there was no beautiful section later, then there'd be nothing really to juxtapose the aesthetics.
A huge part of the community doesn't have the skill required to even play this map, nor do most have enough mapping knowledge to grasp an understanding of what is exactly wrong with this map.Gokateigo wrote:
osu! is a community based game, if a huge part the community doesn't like a map (obvious in this cse, seiously look at the user rating) the map shouldn't be ranked, especially when it uses such a controversial mappingGasai wrote:
If you're going to bubble or veto it, give good reasons that the mapper can actually consider and implement to make the map better and that 'better' being the 'better' in your opinion and not necessarily the thousands of people playing the game.
Not here to reply for monstrata but...Gokateigo wrote:
The gimmick isn't used in some ugly parts, I looked at the map and modded it with the gimmick in head, sometimes the map has good patterns (perfect angles, flows perfectly...) in ugly parts like these perfect pentagons here 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - or the squares here 03:45:634 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - it's not a really ugly part with the vocals etc, but it uses the same instruments + the high sound in the bg literally fuck your ears
Experimental metal often has a lot of unpredictable rhythms to it. They're usually a sort of "controlled chaos" and not completely random, but if you think this is extremely cacophonous then I'd advise you to step outside of your musical comfort zone a bit.Opsi wrote:
There are very few maps (if there even are) like Alien, but tell me; is there another song like Alien? It's a fucking mess of exorcised screams that not even Mazzerin would map, that suddenly cuts out to a loli singing about...wanting to be kidnapped by an alien...? (whattheactualfuck.jpeg)
please note that i mentioned the loved section with the sole purpose of proving that there was no decent scores on this map, i consider a map playable when the player can get 98% or more acc. this was definitely not the case.Monstrata wrote:
@Kagetsu: A lot of analysis and discussion has gone into this map's patterning and playability so it is a disservice to everyone here if you just give a blanket statement that it's "unplayable" without giving specifics for me to explain to you.
Isn't the map currently AR10? That's what it says for the current pending version lol.Kagetsu wrote:
the current ar is far too low. it feels like playing a 190~ bpm map at ar 8.5 which is obviously not the best setting when it comes to smoothly read the patterns.
He's saying that the liminations of the editor (AR 10) is the problem.kobolddragon wrote:
Isn't the map currently AR10? That's what it says for the current pending version lol.Kagetsu wrote:
the current ar is far too low. it feels like playing a 190~ bpm map at ar 8.5 which is obviously not the best setting when it comes to smoothly read the patterns.
Hopefully I'm not taking your statement out of context.
in terms of approach rate, playing a 190 bpm 8.5 ar map with dt would be the same as a 285 bpm map with ar 10. that's what i meant to say.kobolddragon wrote:
Isn't the map currently AR10? That's what it says for the current pending version lol.Kagetsu wrote:
the current ar is far too low. it feels like playing a 190~ bpm map at ar 8.5 which is obviously not the best setting when it comes to smoothly read the patterns.
Hopefully I'm not taking your statement out of context.
Playability is certainly something that should be taken into consideration, however as long as it is not unreasonable a map can be, for all purposes, unplayable. There are many examples of unplayable maps that should be and are ranked and I don't see why this is an exception.Kagetsu wrote:
i'm remarking these two because i believe they have a lot to do with the map playablity.
but the transition is just unpredictable.
not because it isn't supported by the music, but rather because it's unplayable.
i believe unplayable maps doesn't fit the ranked section,
need a complete rework in order to make it playable,
i think you're severely underestimating the reading capability of players, and just because most maps at this bpm with dt end up with higher ar doesn't necessarily make those comfortable to read eitherKagetsu wrote:
please note that i mentioned the loved section with the sole purpose of proving that there was no decent scores on this map, i consider a map playable when the player can get 98% or more acc. this was definitely not the case.
if you want a deeper explanation about why the playability of this map is bad, i would have to say that it's a sum of things: first would be the editor limitations, you've stated that there are players who are capable of playing maps around this speed, the fact that you're not considering, though, is that they do it with dt, where you can play at higher ar and od. i'm remarking these two because i believe they have a lot to do with the map playablity. the current ar is far too low. it feels like playing a 190~ bpm map at ar 8.5 which is obviously not the best setting when it comes to smoothly read the patterns. it's debatable whether or not we should choose upon not the best way of making things because of the editor limitations, you might have your own opinion as well as i can have mine.
ok so i'll leave the transition into the jumps for monstrata to respond to, but these jumps are far from impossible, i've even hit them myself as a 4 digit player, nowhere near the skill level of, say, the top 50Kagetsu wrote:
another point: we all know this a complex song, and as such, it will always tend to be harder to play than common songs, what i don't understand though, is why you're using such a bad transitions when changing the bpm, for example, on 02:55:471 - this section, the bpm increases by 14 units yet you decided to use full screen jumps, which aren't bad in paper, because the music is strong enough to support jumps, but the transition is just unpredictable. you could've been considered a smoother way to put these sections together, by using less spacing/pasive objects or whatnot.
i consider this specific pattern 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - as near to impossible to hit (unless you're using touchscreen), the distance is just too much and the rotations aren't the best either, you might argue that you're using "uncomfortable movement" in order to accentuate the music, but the truth is that the higher the bpm is, the less you feel the difference between awkward and non-awkward movements, this is because the bpm makes all the beats awkward to play already. the worst transition here would be 02:55:787 (2) - to 02:55:893 (1) - especially because the rotation changes on 02:55:893 (1) - which makes it very hard to hit. you might want to move 02:55:999 (2) - somewhere to the up side of the screen in order to "fix" that.
in any case, the distance is still something debatable, again, not because it isn't supported by the music, but rather because it's unplayable. i'm pretty sure there's no one that can consistently hit this pattern 3 times in a row when going throughout the entire map, otherwise prove me wrong.
the movement is actually smoother than you may expect, the aesthetics seem very rough, but while actually playing through it your movement simplifies itself quite a bit and some of it is even comfortableKagetsu wrote:
i believe unplayable maps doesn't fit the ranked section, and that's why tag4 maps were moved to the loved one. believe it or not, your map shares some similarities with tag4 maps: difficult patterns, rough movements, high spaced objects combined with a very high object density in the screen (this due to low ar considering how fast the bpm is) etc.
now i'm not saying that mapping this song is completely impossible, but it would need a complete rework in order to make it playable, because nerfing some patterns would end up unbalancing the map.
about how countering the veto, i honestly think that we won''t reach an agreement, i'm just using my right to vote about whether or not this map should be qualified, i've decided upon no. the veto system is nothing more than a voting system after all.
Thank you!Ephemeral wrote:
if you have nothing constructive to say - say nothing.
will start handing out large silences to people who don't understand this. contribute meaningfully to the map by helping out instead of arguing over each other's opinions plz
We discussed this in a lot more depth over discord chat. I hope this short reply is sufficient considering the log discusses everything much more thoroughly over literally a whole hour.Kagetsu wrote:
please note that i mentioned the loved section with the sole purpose of proving that there was no decent scores on this map, i consider a map playable when the player can get 98% or more acc. this was definitely not the case.Monstrata wrote:
@Kagetsu: A lot of analysis and discussion has gone into this map's patterning and playability so it is a disservice to everyone here if you just give a blanket statement that it's "unplayable" without giving specifics for me to explain to you.
if you want a deeper explanation about why the playability of this map is bad, i would have to say that it's a sum of things: first would be the editor limitations, you've stated that there are players who are capable of playing maps around this speed, the fact that you're not considering, though, is that they do it with dt, where you can play at higher ar and od. i'm remarking these two because i believe they have a lot to do with the map playablity. the current ar is far too low. it feels like playing a 190~ bpm map at ar 8.5 which is obviously not the best setting when it comes to smoothly read the patterns. it's debatable whether or not we should choose upon not the best way of making things because of the editor limitations, you might have your own opinion as well as i can have mine. We discussed everything here in the irc.
another point: we all know this a complex song, and as such, it will always tend to be harder to play than common songs, what i don't understand though, is why you're using such a bad transitions when changing the bpm, for example, on 02:55:471 - this section, the bpm increases by 14 units yet you decided to use full screen jumps, which aren't bad in paper, because the music is strong enough to support jumps, but the transition is just unpredictable. you could've been considered a smoother way to put these sections together, by using less spacing/pasive objects or whatnot. This has been analyzed in detail already. Please refer to Hobbes2's analysis of it on: p/6145650. They are indeed playable, and the transition is very much anticipated because the repeating up/downward sliders train the player to move upward on the next circle, and therefore, downward again the circle after.
This is already very smooth.
i consider this specific pattern 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - as near to impossible to hit (unless you're using touchscreen), the distance is just too much and the rotations aren't the best either, you might argue that you're using "uncomfortable movement" in order to accentuate the music, but the truth is that the higher the bpm is, the less you feel the difference between awkward and non-awkward movements, this is because the bpm makes all the beats awkward to play already. the worst transition here would be 02:55:787 (2) - to 02:55:893 (1) - especially because the rotation changes on 02:55:893 (1) - which makes it very hard to hit. you might want to move 02:55:999 (2) - somewhere to the up side of the screen in order to "fix" that. The rotation does not change at all... The jumps are symmetrical so all rotations are mathematically constant... It's the same difficulty as every other jump that's off-center symmetrical.
in any case, the distance is still something debatable, again, not because it isn't supported by the music, but rather because it's unplayable. i'm pretty sure there's no one that can consistently hit this pattern 3 times in a row when going throughout the entire map, otherwise prove me wrong.
i believe unplayable maps doesn't fit the ranked section, and that's why tag4 maps were moved to the loved one. believe it or not, your map shares some similarities with tag4 maps: difficult patterns, rough movements, high spaced objects combined with a very high object density in the screen (this due to low ar considering how fast the bpm is) etc.
now i'm not saying that mapping this song is completely impossible, but it would need a complete rework in order to make it playable, because nerfing some patterns would end up unbalancing the map.
about how countering the veto, i honestly think that we won''t reach an agreement, i'm just using my right to vote about whether or not this map should be qualified, i've decided upon no. the veto system is nothing more than a voting system after all.
Itasha_S13 wrote:
I don't really like jumps on 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - considering 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - because pattern on 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - doesn't move.. like the jumps are static in the same side of the screen unlike the others that makes a movement, it fits the song. but 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - doesnt do that. I think something like this would fit better and keep the idea of that moving Im talking about to fit the guitar https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8647226 i think the current positioning is fine, and the sections are seprated enough not to feel that related. Also the jumps are quite central, of course a bit to the left, but not to the point where its disorientating or cumbersome to hand positioning.
01:07:259 (1) - check timing on this I think its a bit late It was slightly late, i adjusted a bit for good measure.
Gokateigo wrote:
mod
- 00:01:621 - this sound fuck my ears, if you want to map ugly things don't do a perfect curve This is all part of establishing a baseline aesthetic. There needs to be something that demonstrates the map is breaking apart as the vocals kick in and the song becomes more clearly harsher.
- 00:17:766 (1,2,3,4) - nice curves/square for an ugly map ^
- 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - perfect pentagons are bad for an ugly map ^ Though i ended up fixing it to something else
- 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - back and forths fit better here and it'll be moe playable This is also back and forths. and this plays just fine.
It's just angled a bit to help with transitioning to the side of the screen.- 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^ No. THis is perfectly fine and they are already back and forths, they just also have movements that go in a singular direction.
- 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^ ^ honestly see nothing wrong.
- 01:06:090 (1) - this spinner is full of strong sounds I want to use a spinner because people will still play spinners as a fast gameplay element. When you see a spinner, you move really fast, you don't sit idly by so the intensity is kept. I don't want to use streams because the timing is really messed up, and the section doesn't call for intense rhythm because they are preceded by slow sliders.
- 01:10:902 (1) - ^ ^
- 01:15:702 (1) - ^ ^
- 01:23:493 (1) - ctrl g ? + redo the pattern if you do it No, I want the patterns to be asymmetrical. It creates some uneasiness in the object placement that the player is now accustomed to.
- 01:25:434 (6) - map something ugly here the vocals are different Okay sure, applied to the two below too.
- 01:27:148 (5) - ^
- 01:28:862 (5) - ^
- 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this (and the other similar patterns) are the worst thing in the map, you can do ugly things which look good, you should do ugly slider-same slider reversed-ugly slider-... it'll look good but it'll be ugly I absolutely disagree then. I think they are the best thing in the map honestly.
- 01:41:487 (1) - for all this part : nc on bpm changes no thanks, I don't want to NC just for bpm changes. My NC is rhythmic. the bpm changes aren't rhythmic and not predictable so its best to give players a visual rhythm to keep with. The BPM changes are very slight too, mainly due to offset shifts that ended up being recalculated for bpms.
- 02:02:564 (2,3,4,5) - do a normal jump maybe ? the sounds are strong and this part is pretty calm Nah, I like this arrangement a lot better. it's small, but still forces players to make 90 degree snaps or alternates.
- 02:25:494 (1,2,3,4,5) - it's not enough spaced, it's just before a fast part I think this is perfectly fine. Just because its before a fast part doesn't mean it should be faster if the atmosphere doesn't really suggest ain increase. really, the song doesn't really explode until the downbeat so creating abuildup effect wont work here, especially when theres a 2/1 gap.
- 02:51:908 (1,1) - make this possible to hit with a point where you can put your cusor and wait, it's pretty hard at 280bpm No. I want the player to have to move up and down.
- 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - all the transition snares have a little spacing but this one is cross screen and really hard to play, why ? This is the high point of the map before the transition and there is a lot of build up going into it.
- 03:07:390 (1) - it reminds me of ugly sliders,... in the calm part It's not... You see sliders like this all the time in regular maps.
- 03:15:390 (1,2) - clockwise 03:16:390 (3,4,5,6) - counter clockwise, why ? Flow shift...?
- 03:31:498 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ^ but goes counter clockwise/clockwise Why is this even important? I'm just switching flows to make things more enjoyable.
- 03:45:634 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - "ugly" part callback and it's perfect squares, it should be a bit ugly No.
This is all part of the winny upload section which is the pretty section. The map is divided by genre please, not by the vocal, which isnt even harsh here.- 04:09:581 - this part is singed by the guy of the ugly part, it should be (again) a bit ugly No, for the same reasons as above.
- 04:32:302 (1,2,3,4) - nc no thanks. why?
- 04:33:754 (1) - (and similar sliders) no, it's just bad, all the stop stop before are 2 normal sliders, but it changes at a random moment It's not a random moment, its the final verse. im using slider art as a means to emphasyze the lyrics and the song instead of just regular mapping because I think this is a more creative approach.
my opiniongl I guessThis map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting, Mazzerin maps death metal and thinks song representation is more important than aesthetics. His maps are NOT ugly af, they are a bit ugly sometimes (with really ugly sounds, not everything) but his style fits very well to metal, you should map something similar to his style in the "ugly" part and map ugly sliders when they are in the middle of the calm part because you can't change your style for 2 objects. If you map something like this I'll bee happy if it's ranked, it's just a random shit map atm for me
Painketsu wrote:
I don't mind this map's aesthetics or concept at all, I think variety is always good and I disagree with the popular idea that a map being clean makes it good.
Gonna do a small flow and cursor movement mod since I feel like it's where the map has most flaws.I think it's a hard map but it's not unplayable by any means, shouldn't be unrankable imo
- 00:28:922 (1,2,3,4) - this little square kinda kills the cursor speed built up previously and aesthetically feels out of place, I think an irregular shape with a bit more spacing (same movement is fine) would be better. I gave a better angle from 3>4>5 to offset the movement a bit so there doesn't need to be as much precision in maintaining a linear movement from 4>5
- 00:32:760 (3) - I don't see much reason for this to be ctrl+Gd, this will be prone to confuse players causing a late hit, please keep in mind that with how the game works right now you need to hit this slider a bit early otherwise it will reach the first repeat and cause a sliderbreak even if it's within the hit window (first repeat is 54ms after the start so with this OD that means you'd break if you hit basically anything later than a 300). it's because the previous sliders were really big in spacing. Also the Ctrl+G is better because you are naturally going to move upward playing the slider given the inward flow,
which helps keep you from breaking.- 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - this doesn't fit at all imo, you theme almost all sliders "ugly" and with uneven spacings but this a "perfect shape", I think this comes from you being used to mapping like this (not saying it's a bad thing) but imo this pattern is out of place here, I'd personally go with something more in tone with the map's theme and difficulty, check this for an idea: https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/HotOpulentGosling And more importantly than aesthetics, using a cursor-snap-based small jump section is a great setup for the next big one here 00:40:385 (2) - your current pattern is based on constant circle movement so it doesn't transition very well. I fixed it, though its still a pretty pattern because I want to show the visual breaking apart as the voice becomes harsher and tenser.
- 00:40:385 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - I think you could improve this flow to be less awkward but it's not terrible so I wont go into detail unless requested. I think its already fine as is/..
- 01:01:258 (4,5,6,1) - this almost square-like flow is one of the most awkward in the whole map, this comes after a whole section of acute angled jumps, I think this can be improved, first thing that comes to mind would be 01:01:258 (4) - on x:163 y:326, 01:01:366 (5) - on x:319 y:233, 01:01:473 (6) - on x:30 y:189 and 01:01:580 (1) - a bit closer to 01:01:794 (3) - , the reduced spacing from 6 to 1 increses the emphasis of the back and forths making them more powerful. Fixed it.
- 02:25:494 (1,2,3,4,5) - I disagree with this shape, aesthetics aside, I don't see how this would play better than angled jumps and they would fit better imo. Its there for juxtaposition with the next section. It just makes the kicksliders in the next section stand out more than they would if i used an ugly pattern. Also i think this arrangement can kind of be alternated and give people a sensation that maybe they can alternate stuff but nope.
I think its too far in to implement this idea. I don't really like it anyways since imo that doesn't really have any aesthetic consistency anyways, or its really hard to tell given the AR anyways. But thanks. Could be useful for my other maximum the hormone map .CXu wrote:
Have you thought about mapping in a way where each pattern/combo is messy, but how the patterns/combos interact with each other on the playfield is more organized? While the song is indeed, well, "messy", it does have an overarching structure as music mostly do with just how it's structured. Since you're trying to make the patterns ugly to reflect the song, making the patterns the patterns make more organized (?? lolidk) could improve the map aesthetically while still keeping the core idea of ugly vs not ugly. You have some more structural mapping in there already. At least it sounds like a good idea in my head xd
So like idk doing something like this at 01:39:451 (1) -
The slider on its own is still ugly, but it doesn't bleed into the previous sliderpattern, so they can more easily be seen in isolation, if that makes sense.
Just a thought, and it would be quite a bit of work if you were to do this, but I might as well throw the idea out there.
LimePixel wrote:
Honestly, can't pass the map but from playing with NF I really enjoyed it. It's pretty obvious why it's mapped so differently, and I think song representation is more important than aesthetics.
Small possible problems I noticed:
-02:56:316 (1) - This is touching the health bar slightly It's fine to touch the health bar and I think this arrangement is good for symmetry and works well as the final jump location.
-04:30:366 (3,4,5,6) - This felt odd, there's no major difference in anything for 04:30:610 (4) to be emphasized with higher spacing I think its fine, i'm just using a spacing here thats more reflective of the pattern (hexagon) and not really respecting emphasis. It's fine imo cuz i think respecting emphasis everywhere on this section of the map becomes a bit predictable and boring too.
I don't see why this wouldn't be rankable, since it accurately represents the song. Besides, only mapping in the usual 'safe' way (or pp mapping, with tv size songs) is going to result in player burnout and tons of the same map with different songs behind them.
I think i replied to these all already in your earlier mod.Gokateigo wrote:
ok last post in this thread since all of you can't understand my point and I'm bored of repeating the same thing everything
- I know this map is made to be ugly, I know a lot of people like it (even if the user rating says the opposite but whatever), I know Monstrata knows what he's doing with the editor so stop saying I'm an ignorant because you're wrong
BUTOk this is literally my mod but extended, but now eveything is justified I guess (inb4 some fanboy saying I'm totally wrong) (I'll only answer to real posts now, not the usual "lol your opinion doesn't matter here")
- The gimmick is pushed too far sometimes, especially at the kickslider part : it can be ugly and good at the same time, I've already explained it in my mod, i won't say it again (fuck I'm lazy)
- The gimmick isn't used in some ugly parts, I looked at the map and modded it with the gimmick in head, sometimes the map has good patterns (perfect angles, flows perfectly...) in ugly parts like these perfect pentagons here 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - or the squares here 03:45:634 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - it's not a really ugly part with the vocals etc, but it uses the same instruments + the high sound in the bg literally fuck your ears
- The gimmick is a bit useless/wrong : Ok, contrast, bla bla bla, I know, but the contrast is just obvious with the difficulty 8*/4* not obvious enough ? ok, there are a few ways to map metal like Mazzerin's style "omg you suck Mazz's dick kys" first : fuck you and it was an example, Maakeli is also a good metal mapper, pishi is a good metal mapper, Sayaka is a good metal mapper (restricted for shit but we're not here to talk about that). You get my point, there are other ways to map this and they're all better
- Some jumps are weird and uncomfortable : "it's the point of the map lol" It can be ugly and comfortable, some jumps look like normal patterns (triangles, stars,...) but with extended ds for spacing emphasis, back and forths/really sharp angles/wide angles are better than this imo and can be ugly
- Some patterns have nosense spacing : thinking especially about these 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - the DS goes at weird spots, it's just 2 (maybe 3) repeated sounds so the ds shouldn't change that much (+ 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this one is just too spaced)
I'm also thinking about this one 04:33:754 (1) - this part was just 2 sliders 1/2 for stop stop and it's reverse sliders at a random point
Ended up fixing this with Gokateigo's original mod so i guess this is fixed?Logic Agent wrote:
i don't care about any of this drama but i think there's an aesthetic inconsistency you might consider changing unless it was intentional.
00:17:766 and 01:22:624 are obviously supposed to be similar with the whole guitar going ham and the vocals increasing in intensity, however in the first section you start using "ugly" 1/2 sliders way sooner than you do in the second section. 00:23:986 (5) Here is the first to show that some kind of aesthetic change is gonna start and then after that the last slider in every group of four is ugly.
01:30:362 (4) - but here you waited until pretty far into the section to start making slightly ugly sliders to indicate the change again, maybe cause the section itself is longer before the vocals start yelling again? i dunno, just something i thought i'd ask about. don't mind me if it was intentional/ you've already brought it up, but you could probably start doing slightly ugly ones 01:27:148 (5) here or something.
but yeah, good luck with... all this. my opinion on this map has changed significantly since i voted it a 1/10 almost a year ago
Thanks for the check!Kurai wrote:
Just throwing things I believe should really be fixed. I did not take into account the "beauty" of the patterns.
[Stop! Stop Winny Upload!!]
- 01:40:844 (2) - Overlapped by the HP bar with the default skin. Fixed this
- 01:58:499 (1) - Shouldn't be a normal finish? yea
- 02:27:195 (1,2,3,4) - I really dislike how those kick sliders are overlapped by the previous ones. 1 also slightly overlaps 3 and 2 overlaps 4 as well. I understand you probably did that on purpose, but it's hardly sightreadable and more confusing than anything when you could have made it easier to read just like 02:28:885 (1,2,3,4) - . Well, they are still overlapped, but i made the heads more visible.
- 02:37:902 (2,3,4) - Slightly overlapped by the HP bar with the default skin. Moved it down slightly
- 02:40:244 (2) - Slightly overlapped by the HP bar with the default skin. ^
- 02:56:316 (1) - Slightly overlapped by the HP bar with the default skin.
- 02:56:786 (1) - Slighlty overlapped by the score nulbers with the default skin. Moved both down a bit i guess.
- 04:22:012 (2) - Almost under the HP bar grr I think thats fine D:
I don't mind rebubbling this if I am allowed to.
- I really dislike when objects are put just next to the bottom border of the screen because 1. it's not that comfortable to play 2. it's sometime overlapped by the little accuracy bar. Here's a list of the objects placed way too close to the bottom border of the screen, moving them some grids up should do the trick, it's not like you have to care much about the aesthetics of the map xp: I'd like to keep these because imo putting it near the bottom of the screen doesn't really make it less comfortable to play. i'm just using more of the screen to my advantage really. also the accuracy bar is disabled by default so I don't think its necessary to consider that unlike hp bar etc...
- 00:51:250 (1) -
- 00:56:007 (3,5,1) -
- 00:59:022 (1) -
- 01:01:794 (3,5) -
- 01:31:862 (3) -
- 01:33:991 (1) -
- 01:35:058 (3) -
- 01:58:499 (1) -
- 04:45:311 (1) -
huh ??Kagetsu wrote:
what most of people would agree with, though, is that 280~ bpm full screen jumps aren't approachable even for the top part of the playerbase
I agree it's probably too far in right now, esp. if you do get it ranked. It was more as a suggestion in the case if you were still getting a lot of resistance to how it looks currently.Monstrata wrote:
I think its too far in to implement this idea. I don't really like it anyways since imo that doesn't really have any aesthetic consistency anyways, or its really hard to tell given the AR anyways. But thanks. Could be useful for my other maximum the hormone map .CXu wrote:
Have you thought about mapping in a way where each pattern/combo is messy, but how the patterns/combos interact with each other on the playfield is more organized? While the song is indeed, well, "messy", it does have an overarching structure as music mostly do with just how it's structured. Since you're trying to make the patterns ugly to reflect the song, making the patterns the patterns make more organized (?? lolidk) could improve the map aesthetically while still keeping the core idea of ugly vs not ugly. You have some more structural mapping in there already. At least it sounds like a good idea in my head xd
So like idk doing something like this at 01:39:451 (1) -
The slider on its own is still ugly, but it doesn't bleed into the previous sliderpattern, so they can more easily be seen in isolation, if that makes sense.
Just a thought, and it would be quite a bit of work if you were to do this, but I might as well throw the idea out there.
The reverse is true too though, so that argument is essentially invalid. How many of those bad ratings come from people who have a good knowledge in mapping? also weren't you one of the people quotedhi-mei wrote:
if you wanna hear community, just take a look on this:
quoting random people that dont know shit in mapping and saying "hey nice map" has 0 effective value
lol this is really invalidhi-mei wrote:
<3 kagetsu
one of few that deserves respect
if you wanna hear community, just take a look on this:
quoting random people that dont know shit in mapping and saying "hey nice map" has 0 effective value
kagetsu not the last one to pop this