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MAXIMUM THE HORMONE - A-L-I-E-N

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Caput Mortuum

MaridiuS wrote:

Random dude giving opinions, maybe more agree:

  1. Since osu! is completely community driven game, and QAT's functions are much less utilized, I believe that maps should follow the community's stuff.
    This map caused a lot of controversy, and after being passive for a while, people were alright with that. But even with that much spiked hate for the map (be it logical, or blind hate), you still go to rank this map, causing even more controversy and hate. Usually when a maps gets in a ranking state, everybody is happy with that, sometimes there's controversy like in HW maps, but it gets somewhat more agreement with mappers and players. This is complete chaos, we're not even close to understanding how much people are happy or mad with this map. Meaning I think monstrata you should chill out, and move on, even if it may look unjustified to you, that's how the world works against masses. So I think you should just let this map go, I don't see much accomplished by ranking this.
  2. I usually like to say, if a mapper bases his map on overlaps, he can't simply get away with every possible overlap. Not every overlap is good, and sometimes its just too extreme. Similar thing I could say for this map, as you kinda term it as "ugly", which i could kinda agree on some sliders. If you say its based on that, that doesn't mean you can go with the ugliest sliders ever, but should be toned down a bit to have some aesthetic value over some "art" "song is going like that" stuff.
  3. PS, I think the playability is fine, it follows logical patterns fitting the intensity of the song. Rhythm perfectly follows it, it's just the ugly sliders that i'm against of.
in other words: plz change your sliders to nice looking curves with blankets because fuck your core idea of this map!
Okoratu
@Kagetsu you will need to elaborate on what the issue is and how to fix it

as it stands this is a "I veto this cuz i dislike" without any explanation whatsoever because people being unable to play it atm doesnt mean people will be unable to play it in the future

so please provide more concrete reasoning for this veto

@thread

stop shitposting don't give me headaches
thanks
Tonairu
Just fucking rank the map already geez, you know it's getting ranked anyway.
Shmiklak
MONSTRATA, PAY ATTENTION HERE, THERE'S A STUFF YOU COULD FIX
btw, just noticed, you turned on widescreen but I don't see sb here so I think you should turn it off.
Nao Tomori
hi

can smeone lock this shit till kagetsu responds or something

edit: widescreen is irrelevant since there's no storyboard anyway ?_?
MaridiuS

Eraser wrote:

in other words: plz change your sliders to nice looking curves with blankets because fuck your core idea of this map!
Not really asking for a complete change of sliders, jsut a few less curves on them, and a bit less randomness might be the way to go IMO,
Shmiklak
Yes it's irrelevant but we usually disable it when we don't have any sb so I suggest to do so here
edit: wtf while I was typing this reply 3 new posts came lol
Nao Tomori
feel free to like, give suggestions on how you think he should instead of just spewing random words and calling me autistic then =(
Shmiklak
Everyone can show their opinion and give suggestions if they are actually valid
Mentai

Left wrote:

i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol
hlanden

Mentai wrote:

Left wrote:

i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol
Pira
Greetings fellow person who is lapping up this cesspool of condescension, drama, toxicity, and memes

May I have some of your popcorn

Hobbes you're a fucking masochist why would you do this to yourself

...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the two main concerns of the map appear to be aesthetics and playability. Obviously, I probably cannot judge the latter concept very well since I'm not very good at the game (dirty 30k haitai farming scrub amirite), but many mappers in this thread seem to be discontent with, quite simply, how ugly this map is. It looks like a piece of shit, and I believe anyone who disagrees is either blatantly lying, or has terrible taste.

Personally, I also firmly believe that aesthetics is a core concept of mapping, and is not to just be ignored and done sloppily out of laziness or apathy, simply because it's "subjective" or for a petty reason like arrogance, as some people seem to accuse.

Taking that into account, though, aesthetics's main purpose is not to structure the map, but represent the song through visuals (although these can be interchangeable based on the map, but it's pretty obvious which is the case here lol).

There are very few maps (if there even are) like Alien, but tell me; is there another song like Alien? It's a fucking mess of exorcised screams that not even Mazzerin would map, that suddenly cuts out to a loli singing about...wanting to be kidnapped by an alien...? (whattheactualfuck.jpeg)

Point being, the song should make the map, if it's a good map. Although I can't be as confident on the execution, I fully support Monstrata's concepts because of this basic reason in mapping.

As for playability, I'm out of my league here (and don't want to debate this xd), so I'll leave that to the people who are experienced with maps of this difficulty, people who are experienced playing maps of this difficulty, and of course, people who are neither but still try to act like an authority even though have not enough or even no idea of what they're talking about!(!!!)

You may say Monstrata's simply using the song as an excuse to be sloppy and lazy. Of course a map that is designed to be one of the hardest in the game in terms of sheer difficulty would be controversial if it doesn't build on a fundamental concept of mapping, but utterly destroys it. Or, maybe you're actually right. Maybe Monstrata is actually attempting to disrespect other mappers, and he intentionally mapped a meme. Or, maybe he deliberately shitmapped this song and watches with glee as how much drama this map has generated; similarly to controversial modern art, because that's what this is in the mapping world. Maybe all of these things are true.

As someone who hasn't kept up with whatever drama occurs on the forums, I am only concerned with how this map is tailored to play to the song; and if whatever outside reason others may give coincides with that, then personally I couldn't care less. What I believe doesn't matter nearly as much as some others, though. :P

Just a poor mapper's contribution to this shitstorm of a map thread. I was bored this morning! I'm very curious as to see how this map will progress (or lack of), along with when the thread will hit 1k posts (my bet is by this Sunday). Best of luck, Monstrata.
ItashaS13
I don't really like jumps on 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - considering 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - because pattern on 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - doesn't move.. like the jumps are static in the same side of the screen unlike the others that makes a movement, it fits the song. but 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - doesnt do that. I think something like this would fit better and keep the idea of that moving Im talking about to fit the guitar https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8647226
01:07:259 (1) - check timing on this I think its a bit late
Kurai
stop stop veto popping
Gokateigo
mod
  1. 00:01:621 - this sound fuck my ears, if you want to map ugly things don't do a perfect curve
  2. 00:17:766 (1,2,3,4) - nice curves/square for an ugly map
  3. 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - perfect pentagons are bad for an ugly map
  4. 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - back and forths fit better here and it'll be moe playable
  5. 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^
  6. 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^
  7. 01:06:090 (1) - this spinner is full of strong sounds
  8. 01:10:902 (1) - ^
  9. 01:15:702 (1) - ^
  10. 01:23:493 (1) - ctrl g ? + redo the pattern if you do it
  11. 01:25:434 (6) - map something ugly here the vocals are different
  12. 01:27:148 (5) - ^
  13. 01:28:862 (5) - ^
  14. 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this (and the other similar patterns) are the worst thing in the map, you can do ugly things which look good, you should do ugly slider-same slider reversed-ugly slider-... it'll look good but it'll be ugly
  15. 01:41:487 (1) - for all this part : nc on bpm changes
  16. 02:02:564 (2,3,4,5) - do a normal jump maybe ? the sounds are strong and this part is pretty calm
  17. 02:25:494 (1,2,3,4,5) - it's not enough spaced, it's just before a fast part
  18. 02:51:908 (1,1) - make this possible to hit with a point where you can put your cusor and wait, it's pretty hard at 280bpm
  19. 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - all the transition snares have a little spacing but this one is cross screen and really hard to play, why ?
  20. 03:07:390 (1) - it reminds me of ugly sliders,... in the calm part
  21. 03:15:390 (1,2) - clockwise 03:16:390 (3,4,5,6) - counter clockwise, why ?
  22. 03:31:498 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ^ but goes counter clockwise/clockwise
  23. 03:45:634 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - "ugly" part callback and it's perfect squares, it should be a bit ugly
  24. 04:09:581 - this part is singed by the guy of the ugly part, it should be (again) a bit ugly
  25. 04:32:302 (1,2,3,4) - nc
  26. 04:33:754 (1) - (and similar sliders) no, it's just bad, all the stop stop before are 2 normal sliders, but it changes at a random moment

my opinion
This map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting, Mazzerin maps death metal and thinks song representation is more important than aesthetics. His maps are NOT ugly af, they are a bit ugly sometimes (with really ugly sounds, not everything) but his style fits very well to metal, you should map something similar to his style in the "ugly" part and map ugly sliders when they are in the middle of the calm part because you can't change your style for 2 objects. If you map something like this I'll bee happy if it's ranked, it's just a random shit map atm for me
gl I guess
Shiirn
puxtu

brain damage wrote:

my name is what im getting from you guys here
Linada

Gokateigo wrote:

This map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting
wtf are you stating he never said something like that in the first place
he just wanted to make a huge contrast between the first part of the song which is super messy and the second part which is calm and cute

calm your frucking tits wtf and stop making poeple say what they never said
Bearsome
edit: late
Gokateigo
If you make a contrast with beautiful/ugly mapping you obviously think one part is ugly and the other one is beautiful, seems obvious. He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin did with PK, it'll be way better than this
Pachiru
With all the shitmaps we can see nowadays, I think this beatmap can reach the ranked section.
Because the map itself isn't bad, and the contrast between the both part is very well done. If it's how he want to express his point of view about the music, why are you trying to change Monstrata's mind?

Gokateigo wrote:

If you make a contrast with beautiful/ugly mapping you obviously think one part is ugly and the other one is beautiful, seems obvious. He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin did with PK, it'll be way better than this
I don't think he wanted to make it ugly, but more something weird, fast and tricky, as the song would be. As I said before, it's his POV on this song.
Linada

Gokateigo wrote:

He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin
i know you love Mazzerin a lot but the mapper here is Monstrata and not Mazzerin, why would he map like him.
Gokateigo

Linada wrote:

Gokateigo wrote:

He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin
i know you love Mazzerin a lot but the mapper here is Monstrata and not Mazzerin, why would he map like him.
You're right, Monstrata maps a lot of things like alien right ?
Mini Gaunt

Gokateigo wrote:

If you make a contrast with beautiful/ugly mapping you obviously think one part is ugly and the other one is beautiful, seems obvious.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to map it this way yet not think metal is ugly. The "beautiful part" is calm and structured with a progression and typical chords so it is mapped in an ordered way. The "metal part" has a lot going on with many seemingly random spikes of intensity, thus it is mapped in the same fashion. It doesn't mean Monstrata likes nor dislikes metal, it just means he was mapping the song.
DeviousPanda

Gokateigo wrote:

my opinion
This map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting, Mazzerin maps death metal and thinks song representation is more important than aesthetics. His maps are NOT ugly af, they are a bit ugly sometimes (with really ugly sounds, not everything) but his style fits very well to metal, you should map something similar to his style in the "ugly" part and map ugly sliders when they are in the middle of the calm part because you can't change your style for 2 objects. If you map something like this I'll bee happy if it's ranked, it's just a random shit map atm for me
Telling him to map like mazzerin won't change anything, because this song is quite different to the stuff that mazzerin maps.

Monstrata didn't shitmap this map, he's explained quite clearly why he's mapped it the way this is, so stop tying to get him to change that because that's not going to happen
Seni
d
Ankanogradiel

Left wrote:

i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol
Tbh I never actually hated it but I can sort of understand that.
At first I thought "oh he is just trying to show that he can rank anything" but then I took a closer look.
Monstrata is making an effort to rank this and mapping it like that seems fitting for the music imo. You are all just creatin unnecessary drama.
Didn't find something wrong with the map.
In reality there isn't anything wrong with it than the fact that it's different in a way, and people need some time to digest it.
Unbubling for invalid reasons ain't gonna help either. Further discussion will only lead to more pointless arguments and salt.
Xinnoh
why not just convert the map to ctb then rank and call it a day
melloe
i like it
JierYagtama

Sinnoh wrote:

why not just convert the map to ctb then rank and call it a day
g
Syph

M a r v o l l o wrote:

I think everyone can make mistake, so imo Kagetsu should remove his veto because he didn't provide any really valid reason. Sad that I amn't a member of BNG, I would nominate this. And yeah, 800th post hooray :roll:
shouldn't have cheated retard lolz

btw kagetsu i really don't know what's with the "this map is unplayable" this is passable easily by so many people especially by the so mentioned "top players" zz
kinda unwarranted bubble pop
AncuL
i'd say monstrata mapped the first half with such weird shaped sliders is because of how chaotic it is with many chaotic screamos all over the place, and i think monstrata had done it very masterfully. you can't compare this with mazzerin's maps because the songs he is mapping are so much better organized (and also not intended to be chaotic at the first place).. well i mean you don't find the vocalist throwing tantrums on songs mazzerin mapped

Seni wrote:

You don't have to be a chef to know the dish is bad.
but you need to be able to taste it to judge whether it's bad or not. if someone don't like eating vegetables, they would mostly say that every vegetable dishes taste bad

at first, i thought monstrata was just a jerk who can speedrank anything at his own will, but seeing this map further makes me understand how much effort he was putting into this map. good luck on ranking this!
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Thanks for the discussion everyone. I'll give a more detailed reply to those who posted suggestions etc...

It's been over 50 pages worth of discussion so I can't blame people for not going through the whole thread to fully understand concepts and ideas. I'll briefly summarise them here, though please take them with a grain of salt. They are summaries, please don't reply to them like they are the entirety of my mapping philosophy and approach to this map, it would discredit the paragraphs upon paragraphs that people have posted before.

As is probably quite obvious, the map is operating under the concept that harsh vocals should be mapped aesthetically to ugly sliders, while the pretty anime girl vocals are mapped basically like regular anime maps using clean and structured patterns. This song has two very obvious sections, the metal in the first half, and the pop in the second half, and dividing the aesthetic into two visual categories reflects the song very well in this aspect. I'm sure most people can agree on that.

The map does begin seemingly neat, with visual patterns and paralleling/geometric patterns. The effect is to establish a base-line "aesthetic value" for the map, so that when the vocals kick in, and become harsher, there is a very noticeable shift in visuals.

Really, the concepts aren't that difficult to understand, and I have a lot of support for them. I suppose the playability aspect is honestly what we are here to discuss. I did not intend to map this to become the "most difficult map ever", I am mapping it because I genuinely think this is a concept that is uniquely applicable to this song. It's not common to see two very different music genres being juxtaposed and blended like this. So with that being said, if there are playability issues that still haven't been covered within the last 50 odd pages, or the countless testplays i've had while ranking this map (last year, and this year) and the countless replays I've watched while it was in Loved, then please voice them.

Literally every object on this map has been highlighted and commented on by some modder or player in the past 50 pages so I can probably say quite confidently that every single object has some grounds and analysis for why its there. Of course, I can provide analysis for every single pattern here and can explain how it will be played. I really believe this map can be judged by people even if they cannot pass the map. You don't need to be able to pass a section to be able to play it too.

@Kagetsu: A lot of analysis and discussion has gone into this map's patterning and playability so it is a disservice to everyone here if you just give a blanket statement that it's "unplayable" without giving specifics for me to explain to you. In any case, feel free to list the places you think require work, and how you think they can be fixed as Okorin said. I think we can work something out. I am not above changing patterns up if there is some solid counter argument. My goal is ultimately the map's concept so yes, If i absolutely need to nerf some sections, they will not impact the map's core value and I'd be willing to make the necessary changes.

That said, lets await Kagetsu's reply now and give this thread a break. Thanks everyone for participating
Ampiduxmoe
i can't say i want this map to be ranked (it's fine for ranked section i guess), but i don't understand why people think this is unrankable.
Can you please say why it is unrankable? because sliders are ugly? well, they are fine because represent music almost perfectly. I can't see anything bad in expressing music through the visuals.
Some say this is unplayable. Oh, really? i had a pass on this map when i was practicing high bpm maps a lot. now im 18k btw (i didn't gain any ranks so i probably had same 4k pp back then). It's nowhere near unplayable, i really don't get this point.
so why it can't be ranked? can someone explain properly?
rock time

Monstrata wrote:

fufu- wrote:

00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) no pLEASE bring back the old jumps these pentagons are so hard to play and snap to
I have a possible alternative in mind for it, i'll push a quick update tomorrow though after confirming with some players. I like how it plays currently because its arranged in a way where its possible for players to try alternating it instead of single tapping, but essentially the structure is set up to cause really fast counterclockwise flowing movements that break down into rotating/tornado based jumps afterwards.
yes please get more opinions because imo this is the only thing i really dislike about the map
you have a good idea with the whole counterclockwise flow but the pattern doesnt play out that well at all
i was actually unable to pass the map (with HT) until you changed it to more angled jumps
Will Stetson
Hi guys, I'm just gonna leave this here.



DISCLAIMER I DONT ACTUALLY KNOW IF THIS IS UNRANKABLE I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE FILE IS STRETCHED IN MULTIPLE PLACES.

pls no hate mnstrato ily
defiance
This point_down map map sucks thumbsdown tbh, you shitmapped poop a huge flushed part because you point_right think thinking metal metal is disgusting nauseated_face , Mazzerin heart_eyes maps map death skull_crossbones metal metal and thinks thinking song musical_note representation projector is more important grey_exclamation than aesthetics diamond_shape_with_a_dot_inside. His maps map are NOT x ugly japanese_ogre af, they are a bit ugly japanese_ogre sometimes clock10 (with really ugly japanese_ogre sounds loud_sound , not everything) but his style dark_sunglasses fits very well thumbsup to metal metal , you point_right should map map something similar to his style dark_sunglasses in the "ugly" japanese_ogre part and map map ugly japanese_ogre sliders level_slider when they are in the middle middle_finger of the calm pause_button part because you point_right can't change currency_exchange your point_right style dark_sunglasses for 2 v objects. If you point_right map map something like this point_down I'll point_left bee bee happy smile if it's ranked white_check_mark , it's just a random money_mouth shit poop map map atm alarm_clock for me point_left

oops
- Ed -

Kagetsu wrote:

i'm vetoing this because i think it doesn't fit the ranked section, this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
Meanwhile, Promethean Kings is ranked :thinking:
Topic Starter
Monstrata

Qapitol wrote:

Hi guys, I'm just gonna leave this here.



DISCLAIMER I DONT ACTUALLY KNOW IF THIS IS UNRANKABLE I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE FILE IS STRETCHED IN MULTIPLE PLACES.

pls no hate mnstrato ily
This is rankable. Actually, if you buy the album, the mp3 on the album actually has the applause at the end. Everyone's just meme'ing that I added the sound effect there and now people are believing it xD. Santa San, Nandemo Nai ya, True Blue, EOS (kamome sano rmx) Arashi no Atode all use the same techniques, and those are just my maps. I've also edited mp3's for a variety of ranked mapsets. The mp3 issue was brought up in a recent Ranking Criteria draft discussion, found at: t/602728 but it was shot down. You can check for people's arguments there if you wish, but thanks for checking :D.
Seolv
@Kagetsu I really don't think that the Loved has proven that the map is unplayable, there are a lot of passes
Just because it's not your typical tv size anime pp dtable as fuck harumachi cancer and shit doesn't mean that it isn't playable

this is a meme

Edit: I support this map, take my star~
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