Shiirn wrote:

A map that is intentionally bad is still, in the end, bad. That's the biggest reason I personally disagree with this map as it sits right now. It's an intentional affront to the opinions of dozens and possibly hundreds of community members. All of the problems combine to just make this clearly a map set out with a specific message. One that is offensive and arrogant.

estellia- wrote:

I'm basically agreeing with Ekoro, Warpyc, Jaitonat, Kiyohime, Broccoly and Kuki (sorry if I missed out some names) as of now.

Lagel wrote:

TLDR:

estellia- wrote:

I'm basically agreeing with Ekoro, Warpyc, Jaitonat, Kiyohime, Broccoly and Kuki (sorry if I missed out some names) as of now.

estellia- wrote:

so many shit arguments in this thread

its 0502 in the morning

have this beauty of a remap

Kibbleru wrote:

any1 experienced enough to play this will be able to play the slow parts fine with ar10 anyways

Shiirn wrote:

I'll repeat what I said briefly.


A map that is intentionally bad is still, in the end, bad. That's the biggest reason I personally disagree with this map as it sits right now. It's an intentional affront to the opinions of dozens and possibly hundreds of community members.

Each individual, particular issue the map has - the intentionally messy aesthetics, the incongruity of the map's focus on vocals, drums, or guitar, the blatant fake difficulty - are individually whatever. Each has reasons that can stand up on their own, even if they stand up like a drunken two year old. But all of the problems combine to just make this clearly a map set out with a specific message. One that is offensive and arrogant.

1. The music sounds pretty rushed.
2. it's consistently done

1. Does the mapping fit the song?
2. Is the song consistently represented?

Cherry Blossom wrote:

Everything has been said, Thank you estellia-

1. AR 9.7 > AR 10 is being reconsidered, I will discuss with the BN's (if i find any) who will push this forward.
2. All 1/4 triplets in the intro (00:17:766 - ) and 01:22:624 - have been replaced with 1/3 repeats. Some patterns have also been altered to give lower spacing to these repeats.
3. 00:59:022 - Removed the entire jump section, and used a more consistent rhythm with what was given earlier. The spacing does increase, but I believe that's fair since I want to create a rise in intensity.
4. 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Reduced spacing a bit, and made the pattern more structurally sound so when people see it they have a better spatial perception of it.
5. 01:37:469 - The overmap here has been removed.
6. 01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Nerfed the spacing, improved the flow and entry angle into the stream. Also made the quads more structured.
7. 02:33:117 (8,1) - The streamjump here has been nerfed.
8. 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - Decided to nerf the spacing here. Even Hollow Wings said it was too much. That's when you know you've gone too far.

estellia- wrote:

i think you guys liked this map (its fucking hilarious) maybe i'll throw my 2 cents out here

00:27:409 (1,1) - This is clearly not Monstrata-esque flow. The unintuitive-ness of this flow is very disconcerting This plays just fine. As an authority of Monstrata-esque flows, I must disagree.
00:28:496 (3,4,1,2,3,4) - ^ Flows just fine for me.
00:43:473 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ^ I think your complaint might be the shape of 00:44:016 (5) - so I've changed that to iron out any awkwardness with this entry angle.
00:45:520 (2,3,4,1) - ^ I don't see anything wrong here. The angles are sharper than usual, but this is just inward flow.
00:49:949 (1,2,3,4,1) - ^ Simple zigzag flow. I use this a lot in my regular maps, I think if the arrangement were nicer you would have considered it perfectly fine.
00:56:864 (3,4,5,6) - ^ This one's intentional. All of my flow selection so far has been either back/forth or rotation, all using sharp angles. I wanted to use an obtuse angle here for some variety. If its too much, this is an easy change anyways.
01:43:942 (1,2,3) - ^ Perfectly normal flow. Don't let the slider-shape trick you into thinking 2>3 is poor flow. Remember that players will be very keen on cutting corners and abusing slider-leniency on this map, especially since every slider is mangled. While it bends rightwards into a hook, you will play the slider by moving leftward smoothly.
02:04:611 (3,4,1) - ^ Flow's perfectly fine here too. The arrangement here is actually something you can find in my Hikouki Gumo map.
02:11:659 (2,3,4) - ^ Same as earlier. Don't let the slider-shape misguide you on how the pattern will flow. This is perfectly fine.
02:17:227 (2,1,2,3,4) - ^ I don't even know what to say here. The others I can see your misconceptions, but here its just a jump pattern. It's even a perfect pentagon with consistent 36 degree jumps.

00:34:933 (1,2) - I find this very hard to land because of the fact that you're mapping to absolutely nothing here. Especially with the vocal emphasis right after that you're obviously mapping to, I'd rather you time to the vocals instead of whatever you were trying to map to Buzz sound. It's a good transition from the 1/4 repeats at 00:34:474 (5) - as those aren't mapping to vocals either (as there aren't any). I adjusted the timing here though, thanks!
00:40:066 (1,2,3) - This triplet is CLEARLY an overmap, there was nothing that justified the triplet This is necessary because there needs to be a 1/2 of a beat where the player is forced to pause their movement. Nothing else will work. Making 00:39:852 (6) - a repeat is awkward. Creating a 1/1 gap is also going to cause reading issues due to 1/1 looking like 1/2. Why is a pause necessary? Because the vocal begins on the red tick where you are expecting it to begin immediately on the white tick. Triplets also create a flow reset which help transition from the structured and geometric movements of the earler section to a chaotic jump pattern after. I already touched about this in fieryrage's mod reply. Also I don't think this is a clear overmap because of te guitar's ambiguity. Like i said, I believe the guitarist actually intended to play 1/4's here, but couldn't keep up with 280 bpm triplets himself.
01:02:466 (1) - A pretty big number of slow sliders here are CLEARLY not timed well, or I just have absolutely no idea what you were mapping to: guitar or vocal, because it seems like there is dissonant emphasis in this whole region Going for the bass here, not guitar or vocals. Tey just all happen to align, and all happen to have different offsets. I made some minor changes to two red lines (-5ms) though.
01:24:363 (1,2) - Consistency for rhythm similar to 00:21:206 (1,2) - , there was no vocal at 01:24:363 (1) - , which was kinda indicated to me before that it doesn't warrant a 1/2 slider Hmm... I think both are fine. You can argue consistency if you want, but I think both rhythm choices are acceptable, and the time in between is far too great for anyone to notice them while playing. It's an easy change anyways, so i'll just prepare a fix.
01:35:594 (2,3,4,5) - The focus in vocal right before (and right after btw) suddenly shifts to drum mapping, it makes no sense to me, just retime it or something Sorry if it makes no sense to you .

I'm trying to be objective about it because somehow this is the best kind of flow/rhythm Monstrata can pull out his ass.

If the focus on every map is only about playability we might as well just not bother with nazi mods anymore, because every UGLY thing despite having mildly acceptable flow can be refuted with "oh its just my a e s t h e t i c". While most people will stop bothering with mappers who map to their aesthetic ideals, somehow its not the case with Monstrata SOLELY because he's popular.

Just to piss people off even more: L o .x dd

ko im done hre re xd

VINXIS wrote:

can i mak le big estelia styl post

estellia- wrote:

VINXIS wrote:

can i mak le big estelia styl post

tbh just copy my post and put it into English -> Vinglish translator xddd\

Monstrata more like monstrocity ffs

Kuki wrote:

so much work, alas, not much has changed.

you ignore everyone without particular issues because you can't find excuses monstrata, no?

23:42 Monstrata: like, to a certain extent i want people to play the map and laugh at how ludicrous it is too lol
23:42 Monstrata: and then get to the middle where it shifts from 280 to 120
23:42 Broccoly: haha
23:43 Monstrata: so yea in a sense. i'm not really mapping this primarily for top 50 etc... to pass/fc. its more for ppl to have fun and laugh at/with the map.

Monstrata wrote:

Quite a few of my maps are here for fun, and for people's amusement, but this actually tries to make a serious, though very subtle and probably unnoticed statement. I want to stress the part about laughing with the map though, because by laughing with the map, you do embrace it, for all its craziness. The song itself is meant to be ridiculous, and the concept, both from drastically diverging song styles, to the absurd music video, to the lyrics, all reflect this ludicrousy. If you think I am mapping solely for lolz, then you are mistaken, so please let me explain. This map strives to embrace not merely the prettiness in surface mapping, in aesthetics,... in people... but also their internal elegance. In the real world, you can always chase people who are good looking etc..., but truly, when you get to know someone, its whats inside, what constitutes them, what makes them special, that counts. On the surface, you could be ugly, you can perceive yourself to have flaws, you were born a certain way, you are a certain height, a certain orientation, etc... It doesn't make you any less of a human being, and it doesn't make anyone else less of a person. This map boasts a horrendous amount of "ugly" sliders, and ostensibly messy patterning, but if you are able to look past the murky exterior, if you are able to embrace the patterns, just like you would someone you've met, and grown to cherish, you begin to see the exquisite flows, movements, rhythms, harmony, the beauty inside all this superficial ugliness.

jk lolo ^___^ im obviously mapping for m33ms and pp farmers xddddDDD~~1! what kinda m3m3r dares to map with such philosophical intent xddd

Lagel wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

Quite a few of my maps are here for fun, and for people's amusement, but this actually tries to make a serious, though very subtle and probably unnoticed statement. I want to stress the part about laughing with the map though, because by laughing with the map, you do embrace it, for all its craziness. The song itself is meant to be ridiculous, and the concept, both from drastically diverging song styles, to the absurd music video, to the lyrics, all reflect this ludicrousy. If you think I am mapping solely for lolz, then you are mistaken, so please let me explain. This map strives to embrace not merely the prettiness in surface mapping, in aesthetics,... in people... but also their internal elegance. In the real world, you can always chase people who are good looking etc..., but truly, when you get to know someone, its whats inside, what constitutes them, what makes them special, that counts. On the surface, you could be ugly, you can perceive yourself to have flaws, you were born a certain way, you are a certain height, a certain orientation, etc... It doesn't make you any less of a human being, and it doesn't make anyone else less of a person. This map boasts a horrendous amount of "ugly" sliders, and ostensibly messy patterning, but if you are able to look past the murky exterior, if you are able to embrace the patterns, just like you would someone you've met, and grown to cherish, you begin to see the exquisite flows, movements, rhythms, harmony, the beauty inside all this superficial ugliness.

jk lolo ^___^ im obviously mapping for m33ms and pp farmers xddddDDD~~1! what kinda m3m3r dares to map with such philosophical intent xddd

what the fuck, this is a game
go to tumblr
this isn't 9th grade english class
but congratulations you've recognized common sense
someone end my life there's no point going on anymore when this is the reasoning for a shitty map; comparing a beatmap to real life. please be a shitty joke

Monstrata wrote:

well guys actually it's a statement and i've done it before like cause u know don't judge a book by it's cover

Monstrata wrote:

because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because

Monstrata wrote:

stop being so superficial my beatmap is beautiful just how it is

Sophia wrote:

You should be making a map, not trying to reenact "The Ugly Duckling".

However, if you want to do it that's entirely your choice. Just stick by it. You can't write paragraphs upon paragraphs telling me "this is my aesthetic, I'm going for something deep" and then when you're in a PM box with someone inside the game you say "yeah im mapping this for people to laugh at the map lol". It just makes every single one of your arguments that defend your aesthetic and whatever deep thing you could be making out of this map fall apart and really makes it look like you're mapping it "for the lolz", which is disappointing and a massive "fuck you" to mappers who struggle every day to get their maps ranked and those that take their mapping seriously.

Good luck with your map, hope to see consistency from your answers as to why you're doing this from this page onwards. If you're trying to do something that delivers a subtle yet elegant message then argue for that justification. Not for "I want people to laugh at the map". After all, you're trying to make people like the ugly for the structure behind it. Not like the ugly because it looks so ugly that we laugh at it.

Sophia wrote:

Why are you meme'ing around when I'm honestly asking you why you, as a beatmap nominator, are so insistently spitting on what the ranking system stands for and trying to rank a map "for people to laugh at it"?

Broccoly wrote:

Right now, however, you're sacrificing both visuals and playability in an attempt to express the music, which is something that a beatmap should not aim for. Osu! is a rhythm game and not Visual Art.

Monstrata wrote:

I want to stress the part about laughing with the map though, because by laughing with the map, you do embrace it, for all its craziness. If you think I am mapping solely for lolz, then you are mistaken, so please let me explain. This map strives to embrace not merely the prettiness in surface mapping, in aesthetics,... in people... but also their internal elegance.

Kuki wrote:

the song is ugly so the map is ugly? but ugly is often bad, but we shouldn't look at ugly maps and say they're bad, so bad maps are good, so every map with problems is now ok because we don't want to be rude and force our opinions on you

Spaghetti wrote:

he ignores everyone without particular issues because there isn't any issues to be addressed?

estellia- wrote:

I haven't seen any sound agreement to ranking this map AT ALL, other than the sake of a disgustingly obnoxious statement.