Fezu wrote:

News flash: Telling a person to map it better without providing any mods won't make a map better.

Haruto wrote:

i feel so sad to monstra who had taken all of his effort for this map.

i still dont understand why this shouldnt be ranked/qualified, there is no unrankable stuff on the map anyway. it is didnt play well like i expect but please respect the mapper ;;

gl monstra, i hope those guys will realize themself and can leave you alone soon

Fort wrote:

i don't care for your single meme :>

you're not mazzerin who map crazy deathstreams in every maps he made
you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort
you're not lesjuh who made a good map in 2009
you're not val0108 who made a really stylish sliders map
you're not hanzer who made a stream with a jump
you're not me who map a crazy fullscreen jumps
you're not irreversible who makes cs7 maps

im waiting for epic qualified posts in here (and waiting people who can pass this map without NF or HT)

nice ending btw

Fort wrote:

i don't care for your single meme :>

you're not mazzerin who map crazy deathstreams in every maps he made
you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort
you're not lesjuh who made a good map in 2009
you're not val0108 who made a really stylish sliders map
you're not hanzer who made a stream with a jump
you're not me who map a crazy fullscreen jumps
you're not irreversible who makes cs7 maps
you're not cherry blossom who makes symmetrical maps

im waiting for epic qualified posts in here (and waiting people who can pass this map without NF or HT)

nice ending btw

Fort wrote:

i don't care for your single meme :>

you're not mazzerin who map crazy deathstreams in every maps he made
you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort
you're not lesjuh who made a good map in 2009
you're not val0108 who made a really stylish sliders map
you're not hanzer who made a stream with a jump
you're not me who map a crazy fullscreen jumps
you're not irreversible who makes cs7 maps
you're not cherry blossom who makes symmetrical maps
you're not failureatosu who maps stale memes

im waiting for epic qualified posts in here (and waiting people who can pass this map without NF or HT)

nice ending btw

Yunomi wrote:

Fezu wrote:

News flash: Telling a person to map it better without providing any mods won't make a map better.

well tbh i'm sure monstrata knows himself he can map it better/more appealing/more comfortable to play? he doesn't need anyone's input to remap this. He has way more than enough experience to remap this to his original style.

Arusamour wrote:

1. old mapping not bad; learn fundamental mapping from them.
2. ugly sliders are opinions, not apart of fundamental(ever-so changing factor in mapping history). If i'm a shit slider artist, you can't tell me to make "prettier" sliders.
3. aesthetics has nothing to do with rank criteria, nor quality of the map. it's purposely there, and it's consistnet. use your brain power; THINK!
4. speed ranking. nothing wrong with it.
5. if you no like-y, like-y don't complain to monstrata, complain to some guy who created the system. he will call you a dumbass though.

idk the problems with this map because im truthful; not ignorant. btw i have long shlong lma0

Kiyohime wrote:

The unfortunate thing is that it's literally just a matter of time. Even if a lot of people dislike the map for what it is or what it does, it's Monstrata and the circlejerk is real; it will eventually reach rank.

Yunomi wrote:

hey monstroti,

02:51:908 (1,1) - maybe the sv increase could increase by smaller increments cuz its really uncomfortable to play repeats on such high sv when you have to move as well. It plays fine for me idk. You have to click and move the sliders independently, it'll feel like the slider-ball is following your cursor instead of you following the cursor ball. I think if you do that you shouldn't have trouble playing it.

try to remove or decrease the spacing of the jumpstreams as well since this is 280bpm I don't really want to nerf it, but I improved the structure a bit. I think the spacing between 1>3>5>7 could have thrown people off.

try nerfing the fullscreen jumps, i don't mean the large jumps, but i mean the actual full screen jumps like 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - even if its just a little nerf i think it would help a lot. Nerfed a bit. Oh, this was supposed to be for the jumpstreams, flip the replies^

i don't think the sliders are ugly since it fits your theme of the map, some patterns are arguable but the slider shapes themselves are fine since you are consistent with them throughout the map.

already seen some maps go down the toilet in quality this year so i don't understand why people are freaking out over this map being "ugly". it's not that bad overall.

MCB wrote:

Hi noob here, I'll probably be eaten alive but I might as well have a go at this.

SPOILER

I can't play the map obviously, I'll just have to use whatever intuition I have to try and be of use :/

The part between 01:41:487 and 01:59:463 shows irregular sliders. Of course, you've done this before during the chaotic parts, but you've shown before in the map that you want to map the orderly parts in an orderly fashion, so why are the sliders here so oddly shaped? I'd say this part sounds quite neat and orderly and the slider shapes could better reflect that. Kinda cheeky, but If you notice, the first two sliders look pretty, and then it devolves back into chaos. This part "sounds" like it will be orderly when you first hear it, but then as you listen on, you realize the rhythm and timing is completely erratic and the Chaotic sliders come back. I ended up changing 01:47:183 (1,2) - though to become uglier to fit my original idea above^

02:21:689 (1,2) - 02:23:624 (1,2) - etc. There are some of these sliders which represent the exact same sound in the song but have a completely different shape, I'm assuming it's intentional? I feel like you could create more order within the chaos to better represent the song It's intentional.

02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) For a part that's quite neat in its rhythm and sound, the shape's good, but why is the spacing so high? Your spacing approached this during the extremely chaotic parts but it seems weird to make the jumps this huge for a reasonably orderly and calm part. This is the one of the heights of the map imo. It's where the song finally transitions from chaotic 280 bpm mapping to 120 bpm mapping so here I wanted a blend of both the craziness of the first half of the map, and the structural integrity of the second half. It's why the arrangement here (along with the sliders before it) are noticeably normal, while still being really over the top.

Just some opinion: You probably noticed most of my suggestions (woah there were so many) were about the randomness factor of the map. I do know that there are a lot of parts where you decided to just let the randomness do its thing, because the song's that way. But I feel like you show in certain parts that you do care for the order of the map by doing things more neatly, but you're not doing it all the time, which isn't because the song's just that way (it certainly isn't in some parts) but because you're straying away from how the song is and approaching this randomness feature that you've created around the map and turning it into a gimmick. I'm not saying the randomness is bad, I think there should be structure within it. So I feel like you should actually be more consistent with this behaviour and make the neater parts of the song neater in the map and such. I think of the map in this way because there's definitely structure and order within the song and you definitely do interpret it, but sometimes you don't seem to show it which is a waste if you ask me :c

All in all, I really like the randomness effect but I think you can improve on it

Good luck with the map!

Reddit wrote:

SPOILER

00:40:066 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - possibly change the pattern here to something smoother or at least lower spacing No, I want to show the jumps spiraling out of control. You can see how the pentagon/star jump pattern just dissipates into chaos.
01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - the spacing here could be a bit lower come on lmao Explained with Yumoni's post
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,1) - extremely over mapped imo, this isnt a Rabbit Jumping Style map lol Explained with MCB's post.

ok there is my first ever mod in osu, i even had to watch ztrots osu accademy video to do it. kudosu pls

Sieg wrote:

hello apparition wannabe

confirming from my part that guitar in intro 1/3 yea

also, don't you feel like those patterns overextended? No, but I made some minor changes see above for changes/reasonings
01:01:151 (3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) -

also, while 1/4 sliders can be justified(?), I don't see much support for placing just streams there: The 1/4's exist, and in both cases I've been prepping the player with those 1/4 patterns, whether kicksliders or 1/4 repeats so they should expect some sort of 1/4 rhythm going into both of then.
01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -
02:32:742 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -

BOUYAAA wrote:

Should be 1/3 as said above yea

there are still alot of questionable things in the map imo though

rythm is kinda fucked in some places like here 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - etc i'm guessing you're doing that kickslider stuff because vocals go crazy or something but you're not following the vocals so yea feels super weird I disagree...

some pretty ugly overmaps too like 01:37:362 (2,3,4,5) - idk it's probably not 1/4 it's probably there, but it might not be. Either ways though I would want to keep, i don't think the overmap is inherently wrong, and I don't think you'll even be able to complain about a lack of a note there when actually playing (listening at 100%). The vocals support it imo.
01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - this one is pretty lol with the streamjumps and all Well, i nerfed spacing a bit~

don't have time to look at the rest but yea

idk

Jaitonat wrote:

Thre's nothing fundamentally wrong with speedranking sure, but i feel if you rank your map -too- fast it doesnt get subjected to enough opinions and as such will obviously not be as good as it could be.

And lastly, modding exists to point out issues with a map specifically to the mapper. if we can't "complain" to the mapper then who the fuck do we complain to

ok dad im leaving now hf with ur shitmap lo

Kibbleru wrote:

02:26:362 - what the actual fuck

btw u need ar 10

Fort wrote:

i don't care for your single meme :>

you're not mazzerin who map crazy deathstreams in every maps he made
you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort
you're not lesjuh who made a good map in 2009
you're not val0108 who made a really stylish sliders map
you're not hanzer who made a stream with a jump
you're not me who map a crazy fullscreen jumps
you're not irreversible who makes cs7 maps
you're not cherry blossom who makes symmetrical maps
you're not failureatosu who maps stale memes
you're not KuranteMelodii who name the longest diff name in the world

im waiting for epic qualified posts in here (and waiting people who can pass this map without NF or HT)

nice ending btw

Broccoly wrote:

wait why are you basing your decision for AR on 1/4 clicking rhythms when 1/4 rhythm is just pure 280 stream..?
its the 1/2 jumps (including sliderjumps) and not the streams that usually 'tell' the player whether the AR fits or not..

Monstrata wrote:

My reasoning is more visuals than playability.

fieryrage wrote:

from a first look at the map honestly it's not that bad, the triples in the beginning and the 1 minute mark are awful to play though but i hear that's being remapped to 1/3 anyways

i will say:

- for an 8.5 star map this needs AR 10, i read the discussion and while the slow section is a problem i seriously doubt anyone who isn't skilled enough to read AR 10 on slow songs would pass up to that point; as it is right now the 280 1/2 jump spam is borderline unreadable with 9.7

Long chat with Broccoly about AR 9.7 vs AR 10. Please give it a read if you get the chance, it really fleshes out all my thoughts on the AR

23:15 Monstrata: aaaah i dropped my original intentions long ago x___x
23:16 Broccoly: oh.,,,
23:16 Monstrata: AR 9.7 is already playable imo so increasing to AR 10 is a matter of visuals (screen density)
23:17 Broccoly: but theres a lot of difference between 9.7 and 10..
23:17 Broccoly: at this bpm..
23:17 Monstrata: its why i said visuals > playability. i don't mean im sacrificing playability for visuals tho, just, when both are considered playable, 9.7 brings more visual appeal for me
23:18 Broccoly: i see
23:18 Broccoly: but why do you think is 9.7 is playable enough??
23:18 Monstrata: the difference is a bit less than 1/4th a beat (45 ms) which wasn't a lot after getting a lot of testplays
23:18 Broccoly: to me even 10 is low,,
23:19 Monstrata: ehh i think thats cuz you're just just really used to playing with dt mod though
23:19 Broccoly: well i fc'd jumpudding with ez mode so i could say i'm pretty used to low ar
23:20 Monstrata: mmm well, but you can read high AR's like over 10 so it kinda makes you a bit biased to higher AR's too no? xD. since you'd consider a higher range of AR's as "normal"
23:21 Monstrata: whereas someone who can barely read 10.3 would consider something like 9.7-10 as a good AR range
23:22 Broccoly: hmm
23:23 Broccoly: few things here.. someone who can barely read 10.3 is not your target audience
23:24 Broccoly: also i have no idea on that bias thing cuz i don't mind playing lower ars
23:24 Broccoly: and what's the difference between 270 nomod map and a 180 dt map?
23:25 Broccoly: that you need to use lower ar on the nomod map
23:25 Monstrata: well, theres also mmm more technical but with AR 9.7 you get to see the object on screen for 495 ms. and basically the rhythm of the map gives 482 ms per 5 notes (two white tticks) so at AR 9.7 there will always be 5 objects on the screen. whereas AR 10 bedomes 450ms, and the rhythm shifts down 1/4 a beat and becomes 429ms which results in less than 5 objects on the screen
23:26 Monstrata: and to a certain extent i do want the screen to be slightly more cluttered to aid with the aesthetic. timing wise, the difference is only 45 ms, but effect wise, its the difference between 4 and 5 objects on the screen
23:27 Broccoly: i see
23:29 Monstrata: also, i think with 180 dt maps you don't really get a choice as to what AR you want to pick. and I guess everyone just got used to 180 bpm DT = AR 10.33
23:30 Broccoly: ok
23:30 Monstrata: like, i think if people had the choice to assign AR's for DT/HT etc... 8 years ago or whatever, instead of a preset multiplier, things might be different today. we're just forced to go into 10.33 AR because of tradition, not because mappers agree on it
23:31 Broccoly: right
23:33 Broccoly: so for the former problem I think that that 1 object matters a lot in this case.. and I'd say you've achieved your visual representation of the music already with the patterning of the objects, etc
23:35 Broccoly: and that tradition thing, that's a good point... but now that players have already been used to 10.3, why not just make them play what they're used to?
23:36 Broccoly: they're gonna have a difficult time anyways.. why make them suffer more lol
23:37 Monstrata: mmm
23:37 Monstrata: well. cuz i think the playerbase can be more than just ppl who can play 180 dt
23:38 Monstrata: like, i would play this map for fun, but the AR 10 would turn me off cuz i can't read it and neither can a lot of people
23:38 Monstrata: well, less and less, nowadays but
23:38 Broccoly: oh i see
23:40 Broccoly: so you think it's worth sacrificing the playerbase who are used to >10 AR for the playerbase that can't read AR 10?
23:41 Broccoly: i mean, if that's what you wanna go for I can't stop you but to me it doesn't seem worth it..
23:41 Monstrata: yes. unless i'm wrong in thinking that people who can read AR 10 can't read 9.7
23:41 Monstrata: and I think its sacrificing it for the playerbase that just isnt comfortable with AR 10
23:41 Broccoly: ah okay
23:41 Monstrata: maybe they can read, they just prefer a lower AR
23:42 Monstrata: like, to a certain extent i want people to play the map and laugh at how ludicrous it is too lol
23:42 Monstrata: and then get to the middle where it shifts from 280 to 120
23:42 Broccoly: haha
23:43 Monstrata: so yea in a sense. i'm not really mapping this primarily for top 50 etc... to pass/fc. its more for ppl to have fun and laugh at/with the map.
23:44 Broccoly: well that's cool then,, but you'll have to prepare for a lot of shitstorm and salt tornados from so many people lmao..
23:45 Monstrata: o yea
23:45 Monstrata: already went through like 10 pages of that xD
23:45 Monstrata: and what, 5 reddit threads? xD
23:45 Broccoly: oh damn LOL
23:45 Broccoly: didnt know
23:45 Monstrata: if HW survived this for a whole year, i can too xD
23:46 Broccoly: wel l you do you man,,
23:46 Broccoly: gud luckk
23:46 Monstrata: oh
23:46 Monstrata: would you mind if i saved this chat log?
23:46 Broccoly: not at all, go ahead

- OD is subjective but honestly it should probably be OD 10 since notelocking might be a huge issue here like it was in apparition Apparition didnt require OD 10 but it was used mainly because of stream. There are barely any 1/4 patterns on this map, so the notelocking excuse isn't relevant here.
- HP 3 seems kind of pointless for a map this difficult tbh, bump it up to 4 or 5 Sure, HP 4.5 HP 3 was originally so the triplets could be more forgiving, but now that i've replaced them i can do a higher HP and not feel bad.
- preview point on the slowest part of the song why? didn't louis cyphre's anthem map get unranked for something like this? This is the entire point of the map lol. 8.5 stars, and it sounds like its 2 stars. It's all about juxtaposition. Pretty Ugly.

ok actual suggestions now
00:03:501 (1,1) - why are these spinners so LOUD holy Reduced to 35% and soft sample
00:51:668 (5) - nc? No, not necessary since the pattern is in a set of 8 not two sets of 4.
00:55:144 (5) - ^ ^
00:56:007 (3) - idk if you forgot a nc here but you did it for the previous section so doesn't really make sense to not have one here imo; this goes for most of the jumps like this in this section Huh? This is consistent with everything I have. Which section are you referring to?
00:58:578 (5) - ^ as per 00:51:668 ^
01:01:151 (3,4,5,6) - this jump is like huge as hell compared to the rest of the fairly short-spaced quick hops, ideally if you wanted to keep this i think spacing out 00:59:444 (3,4,5,6) - and 01:00:294 (3,4,5,6) - a tiny bit more would help Good point. I spaced out the second one more. So you have an increasing spacing concept here.
01:02:008 (5) - ^ as per 00:51:668
01:06:090 (1) - i don't really see a point to not mapping the part in this spinner (the drums, mainly), it feels really out of place as it stands Spinner fits a lot better imo. It's basically a growl + drum roll
01:10:902 (1) - ^
01:15:702 (1) - ^
01:35:915 (4) - shouldn't the slider start here for the guitar riff? it's what you did in all the previous sections so it doesn't really fit going for the vocals here Going for vocals. the rhythms from the previous two measures (all following vocals) support this.
01:37:201 (1,2,3,4,5) - why does this follow a different rhythm than 01:36:772 (5,6,7,8) - and the one before it even though it's literally the same thing The vocal rhythm is different here. But idk if this was pre or post upload. If it was pre, I fixed it and got rid of the overmap and changed the rhythm. If its post, then yea, vocal rhythm is different.
01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - how does this call for a jump stream??? nothing in the rhythm suggests a huge change in intensity.. I think it's well supported in the song, and the player should see these 1/4's coming based on the rhythms of the previous few measures.
02:18:402 (3,4,5) - this sounds off timed if you're following the vocals here, the last note especially Instruments are better, so whenever I can, i will follow the instruments. here it just happens that the vocals and the instruments use the same rhythm, though obviously the vocals are off. Applies to the ones below, i've checked them all.
02:19:370 (3,4,5) - ^
02:20:338 (3) - this just hits too early in general
02:26:362 (1) - this is like the best time to put a kiai but you don't wh
02:30:599 (9) - nc to maintain nc consistency with this section No, this is different. The NC's here are placed based on movement and flow, and not rhythm. Since its one consistent updown or leftright movement it has one combo, where as the previous ones can be split into two sets of flows/movements with backforth going into clockwise/counterclock.
02:32:313 (9) - ^ ^
02:33:171 (1) - also don't see a need for this to have a big gap from the stream, feels really out of place I think it fits pretty well with the super slow slider facing the other direction. It creates a flowbreak that helps the player be more aware of the drastic SV change.
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - these should not nearly be as spaced as they are currently imo, if someone puts jumps like this at least make the player lead into them properly with gradually expanding jumps--these just come out of nowhere The wavy repeat slider is there precisely so the player has to keep moving up and down and keeping their momentum going. You'll see that the wavy slider is about 0.75 times the distance of those jumps so you have some muscle memory going into it too.

i'm not modding the slow part of the song since i'm fairly certain that's good enough as it is and i'm horrible at modding stuff like that
03:04:570 (4) - nc this tho This doesn't need an NC, its part of the previous stanza.

honestly, i really don't care too much about the uglyness of the sliders or jumps (to be honest this is basically how i map a majority of my jumps anyways). it's just a lot of the map seems mapped too much for difficulty spikes as it is right now. there's extremely easy (comparatively speaking) jump sections then out of nowhere a huge jump comes. that's really the only issue i see here. i'd much rather there be consistent jump spacing or gradual ramping of the difficulty of the jumps rather than just one random burst of across-the-screen jumps. timing also is an issue in some places (it's kind of similar to tengaku with the insane amount of timing changes, in that sense), so i'd get someone to double check that if you haven't already. obviously it can't be perfect but it can definitely be a lot better in some places.

ok that's my mod bye

sdafsf wrote:

i guess m4m is closed now...

00:44:770 (5,6) - map this guitar consistently during one section in this section you used 3 different patterns Fair enough, changed to something else
01:37:201 (1,2,3) - why low spacing here when it was higher on the 2 before? Hmm yea true. Fixed.
01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - i can hear the drums on the stream jumps but this is overmapped as fuck. i i cant hear the 1/4 in the first place but if you put it here make the stream rather like this instead of a jump No, i prefer how it is atm. See fieryrage mod reply for more info
02:32:742 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - dont see anything that justifies the jump here. the sudden low sv should be enough to make the flow drop ^
02:53:686 (1) - why not map the drums here? the slider right now is ridiculous and doesnt even fit because of the 1/1 drums imo It's 1/2... and see fieryrage mod reply
02:53:686 (1) - beautiful pattern but the spacing is just overmapped its not that intense... you probably wanted a difficulty spike at the end of the hard part but thats just unfitting ^

really not sure about the inconsistency of slider shapes but i guess thats your theme for this map... still some part overmapped even for this theme
i know m4m is closed but i would be very grate ful if youd still mod my map T_T https://osu.ppy.sh/s/465788
btw change title of your m4m queue took me a while to realize its closed

Broccoly wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

My reasoning is more visuals than playability.

Osu! is a rhythm game and not Visual Art.