Tassadar wrote:

4 digits is way too low to understand 8.5 stars, and a tad too low to understand even 7 stars completely probably

you overestimate 7 stars bruh

squirrelpascals wrote:

Heya, decided to stop by and take another look at this map after seeing it got bubbled, because who can forget a map like this

hi

00:41:339 (5,1,2) - I don't feel like this plays well at all; at this speed; with 2's placement at least I feel like players will hold on the sliderhead of 1 causing sliderbreak-itis Fair enough. I moved 2 closer to 1's slider-end.

00:49:081 (1,2,3,4) - space 2 and 3 more? dont see why not True. changed the pattern here.

00:50:710 (3,1,2,3,4) - how does this flow make sense? It does...? It plays well for me. The flow is inward and creating cross shapes. It's a flow i use a lot in my jumps.

01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - I feel like your putting all of your focus into the theme and ignoring flow. the sliders are ugly and all and that's fine but as a result the flow in this pattern is deficient. I use this pattern in the example below but it gets far worse at 02:26:362 This flow analysis is just wrong... Please consider the kicksliders as circles and analyse the movement based on that. you'll see the actual movement is a simple back/forth zigzag pattern. Sliders are calculated to be short enough to avoid ever slider-breaking and they are arranged so that the slider-ball is going in the same direction as the player's general movement direction too.



01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I don't feel like a 280bpm stream jump would be very adequate even for exageration, just make eack 3,4 a kickslider or something Nah, i prefer the stream. I think it's quite fitting here after those kicksliders.

02:27:195 (1,2,3,4) - This flows so randomly and object placement is just haphazard This flows perfectly fine. I think you just analyzed the flow incorrectly...

02:29:099 (3) - with this specific sliderend being right next to the sliderhead I feel like this will call for a lot of sliderbreaks That won't happen though... slider-ends being next to slider-heads won't cause breaks, if anything it would prevent breaks because only sliderhead/ticks/tails are factored in to sliderbreaks... (take HW's Notch Hell map for example).

02:31:563 (2) and 02:32:206 (8) - make it flow down less, players are going to jump straight toward the next circle yet these sliders are directed otherwise, causing breaks n stuff Same as above, your flow analysis isn't accurate to how the patter will actually be played.


One other thing I feel needs work on this map with it's theme of ugliness is the difference between an ugly and awkward overlap. An overlap can play well but still not look pretty. This is for all the points listed below

00:32:117 (4,1,2) - 4 and 2, the flow here feels so confined and cramped imo Flow's fine to me... its a counterclockwise inward flow.

00:37:822 (3,2,7) - I don't see a reason not to place this where 00:38:463 (2) is besides ugliness; this is just very out of place from 00:38:463 (2,3,4,5,6) making it awkward Already explained this on Shiirn's mod, It's done for a second sharped flow revolution before the jumps spiral out of control and structure.

01:36:022 (5,1) - the way this slider dips curves downward after flowing upward The flow is fine here. actually it plays quite well... Also factor in slider-leniency too.

kickslider patterns at 01:38:058 through 01:39:451 - and 02:26:362 through 02:31:028 - see above mod for 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) . In the case of overlaps, i feel this happens because of the random spacing between each sliderhead. (Some of the patterns you use a gradual spacing increase between each; those overlaps have reasoning in them and thats fine) All slider-heads are visible, which is what's most important. I would say it's the only factor too because from the arrangement you can already see where all the sliders are pointing (their general direction anyways).

This is just a clutter: 01:38:808 (8,2) -


Just stated some general stuff. I tried to respect your maps theme as much as I could; sorry if I infringed it. I just feel like this map is still in lack of some fundamentals because of its focus. Also, this is my first time modding a map with such an sr (i dont think im the only one here tho) so sorry if i messed up in that manner.

Thanks for the mod!!

Nyari wrote:

ITT a ton of people who cannot comprehend the map nor mapping complaining about star rating and their correlation to ranks with some "I can't play this therefore it's a bad map"


Seriously, if you don't like the map, don't play it. Everyone being able to play a certain map isn't a part of the ranking criteria, nor is mapping in a certain way.

this isn't art it's a game, there's nothing complex to comprehend

Nyari wrote:

ITT a ton of people who cannot comprehend the map nor mapping complaining about star rating and their correlation to ranks with some "I can't play this therefore it's a bad map"


Seriously, if you don't like the map, don't play it. Everyone being able to play a certain map isn't a part of the ranking criteria, nor is mapping in a certain way.

lol no, the issue is how a low quality extremely high star rating map can get bubbled so casually when its almost impossible for anyone else besides Mazzerin to get the same response (probably because his maps are extremely well designed with tons of effort put in to making it as high quality as possible), and its pretty obvious this map isn't even made to be quality, its only made to be a very high star map because "le harder is le cooler xd". Either put effort into making something of quality or just don't make the ranking system become worse than it already is, oh wait that one triangle only map got ranked so looks like that's already done. It baffles me how people continue to deny the mapper circle jerk still.

Reddit wrote:

Nyari wrote:

ITT a ton of people who cannot comprehend the map nor mapping complaining about star rating and their correlation to ranks with some "I can't play this therefore it's a bad map"


Seriously, if you don't like the map, don't play it. Everyone being able to play a certain map isn't a part of the ranking criteria, nor is mapping in a certain way.

lol no, the issue is how a low quality extremely high star rating map can get bubbled so casually when its almost impossible for anyone else besides Mazzerin to get the same response (probably because his maps are extremely well designed with tons of effort put in to making it as high quality as possible), and its pretty obvious this map isn't even made to be quality, its only made to be a very high star map because "le harder is le cooler xd". Either put effort into making something of quality or just don't make the ranking system become worse than it already is, oh wait that one triangle only map got ranked so looks like that's already done. It baffles me how people continue to deny the mapper circle jerk still.

There needs to be no mapper favouritism. Guarantee if this was made by anyone else it wouldn't have had the attention it does, it would be just another shitty graveyard map

Intro section, this 01:22:624 (1) - one, and 02:26;362 (1,2) - this one are played in triplets (1/3s). In last section even vocal doesn't justify 1/4 slider jumps as it's 1/1 not 1/2

Jaitonat wrote:

00:17:766 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -

This entire section is overmapped as 1/4th, notes mapped to the guitar should be snapped to 1/3rd. Doesnt fit well on any other offset, isnt a bpm thing either; just snap 2 1/3rd plz its awful

listen to the notes at 50% playback speed when they're all snapped to 1/3rd and they sound perfectly fine

asked a few people (Akali,BOUYAAA,etc) and i got mixed answers , but I feel that it should be 1/3 too

Reddit wrote:

lol no, the issue is how a low quality extremely high star rating map can get bubbled so casually when its almost impossible for anyone else besides Mazzerin to get the same response (probably because his maps are extremely well designed with tons of effort put in to making it as high quality as possible), and its pretty obvious this map isn't even made to be quality, its only made to be a very high star map because "le harder is le cooler xd". Either put effort into making something of quality or just don't make the ranking system become worse than it already is, oh wait that one triangle only map got ranked so looks like that's already done. It baffles me how people continue to deny the mapper circle jerk still.

brb


btw i also hear 1/3 EXCEPT for 02:26:362 (1,2) - i hear it fine this way tbh.

hello apparition wannabe

confirming from my part that guitar in intro 1/3

also, don't you feel like those patterns overextended?
01:01:151 (3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) -

also, while 1/4 sliders can be justified(?), I don't see much support for placing just streams there:
01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -
02:32:742 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -

This is seriously the worst thing I've ever seen. The only reason this gets attention and people defending it is because a relatively known mapper mapped it, seriously? If some rank 50k made this and tried to rank it there's no way in hell it'd be possible. If this gets ranked the ranking system needs a serious overhaul.

Also ITT 9Ks battling with 10Ks over who has the better plays, I fucking can't

Should be 1/3 as said above

there are still alot of questionable things in the map imo though

rythm is kinda fucked in some places like here 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - etc i'm guessing you're doing that kickslider stuff because vocals go crazy or something but you're not following the vocals so yea feels super weird

some pretty ugly overmaps too like 01:37:362 (2,3,4,5) - idk it's probably not 1/4
01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - this one is pretty lol with the streamjumps and all

don't have time to look at the rest but yea

idk

I won't be commenting on the playability of the map because i'm only rank 6k (LUL). Instead, a few things come to mind. Let's take a look at some facts about this map.

1) This map would have the highest star rating of a ranked map in the game
2) The map has 2 minutes of 3* mapping (yes, it fits that part of the song)
3) The map boasts a load of really ugly-looking patterns and sliders which are most likely awkward to play. According to the mapper, this is intentional.
4) The map was speedbubbled after a few mods
5) People have pointed out several mistimed sections

In my opinion, combining facts 1 and 2 shouldn't be happening. It's generally considered wise to keep the map's difficulty somewhat consistent, as far as the song allows for it. This map is straying away from the principle by a huge margin. The first half is only playable by a few top players, the second half, however, is way easier. There will be no type of player who can enjoy the whole map because either the beginning will be way overwhelming or the last 2 minutes will be a painful bore. This song is clearly not suitable to be mapped as the hardest map in the game, yet the mapper decided to do this.

Next we come to point 3 and 4. We are talking about the fairness of the ranking system here. If a mapper who didn't have several ranked maps under his belt uploaded this map, they would be heavily criticized for the ugly mapping style. If they responded to the criticism by saying that it was intentional because the song is ugly, i can 100% guarantee you that the mapper would be literally laughed out. Nobody would ever consider the map for ranking. Most likely the map would be considered a joke and graveyard material. But this isn't what happened here. So where is the difference?

The difference in attitude towards the map was because it was mapped by a well-known person with a lot of friends in the beatmap nominator team. The current state of the ranking system lets a person who knows the right people to speedrank any map that is even reasonably decent. This happened pretty recently with Monstrata's speedranked triangle meme map. It was obvious that the map was made with memes and a funny idea in mind, yet it was quickly bubbled and ranked by his friends. This map getting bubbled now just shows how the system is heavily biased in the favor of well known mappers. It seems almost that if you have made a few maps that are high quality in the past, you don't need to keep up the quality in your future maps. Obviously this wasn't looked at very carefully if several people started pointing out mistimed sections AFTER the map already getting bubbled.

TL;DR: Map ranking system is biased towards well known mappers, who can get even low quality maps ranked with the help of their connections in the BN. Also, the song isn't fit to be the highest star rating map in the game (because of the long easy part).


As a side note, when this gets ranked (it will), you can probably start ranking some of the well-known jump practice maps, too.

joolomasta wrote:

As a side note, when this gets ranked (it will), you can probably start ranking some of the well-known jump practice maps, every unranked map too.

ftfy

Lagel wrote:

this isn't art it's a game, there's nothing complex to comprehend

Agree. At least for ranked, playability should come firs, aesthetics second.

Let's not comment on how this was speed-bubbled even if it was obvious that the map would turn devolve into another dramafest just like Genryuu Kaiko was because this... thing, was made clearly to just be hard, as hard as it can be and I'm pretty sure the nominators who pushed this knew the QAT would turn their eyes onto this as soon as it got into the Qualified section and point all the flaws from the shallow mods that preceded the bubbling.

And one can argue the artistic value of the patterns and whatever, but the same effect could probably also be achieved without turning this into a 8.5 star abomination of overspaced notes, playability is high questionable here, was this map made specifically for a number of players that I can count using the fingers in my two hands that can actually play this but was made HP 3 just so a few more can squeeze a pass? Why even bother giving this a leaderboard when there are other options that had more effort and thought put onto them, with more mods, more stars, more difficulties encompassing a larger part of the player base?

Bubbling this was just one more thing showing the circlejerking around the current meme maps that have been ranked for some time just for the sake of difficulty. The people who pushed this, like I mentioned before, knew that there would be drama and that some people would come to defend the map and now that this was brought to light most likely it will get even more attention turning the odds of this getting ranked eventually higher.

Maps are unranked because of poor aesthetics all the time, simply because there needs to be some sort of quality control; especially on something as hard as this. Just look at something recent like awaken's toumei elegy. It was unranked and remapped multiple times because of poor aesthetics, just to name one map. (there's a lot more if i could care to look around but you get the idea)

Basically, it's one thing to have poor artistic style in a map; but it's another thing entirely to just be complete shit in aesthetics. It's just unsightly.

hi dad (alien)

Default wrote:

The ugliest thing about the map is this thread.

Hmmm really makes u think...

Reddit wrote:

Default wrote:

The ugliest thing about the map is this thread.

Hmmm really makes u think...

very insightful point my friend

deetz wrote:

Reddit wrote:

Hmmm really makes u think...

very insightful point my friend

shut UP deetz

haHAA

deetz wrote:

very insightful point my friend

i think he was talkin about u detz...

jk

well
if the map is intend to be ugly then saying this map is so ugly might be a compliment instead xd

#Mind = Blown

the guitar intro sound like 1/3 for me tho lmao

Hmm alright I'll take your guy's advice and remap every 1/4 triplet into 1/3. I interpreted the 1/4's as the guitarist struggling to catch up, with the snapping intended to be 1/4, not 1/3. I think if they had intended for the guitar to be 1/3 the 2nd strum of the guitar wouldn't be so consistently early (by a few ms). That's how I interpreted it anyways.

I wanted the metal part to look aesthetically ugly and chaotic, so thanks for reaffirming my success in this map!

ok what u guys dont understand is that if the map was the same without the ugly sliders you wouldnt be complaining :\

well yea but that doesnt change the fact that it looks like complete horseshit and predates 2009 mapping

thats like sayin you'd be ok with a pile of dogshit in front of you if the owner of the dog said that it was meant to be there xd

so what if it looks like horseshit it plays and goes with the song perfectly

you open the map and theres obvious structure to be found

people are saying monstrata doesnt know shit when they cant even distinguish strucuture from pretty maps - _ -

anyhow it takes much more effort to ensure every slider fits the music than just putting straight and curved ones like any normal map so people who say monstrata put no effort into this think again

Grand mapping. This is exactly what my interpretation of this song would look like, except I wouldn't be able to pull it off and finish it. Also everyone complaining about the slidershapes being 'ugly' should calm down and think for a moment. The sliders are just as 'ugly' as the song, both in a good way.

EDIT: Also, please stop saying it goes against any 'standards of quality'.

why, you literally have no reasoning exept that it looks ugly, despite what the rc says, and the song portrays. if you says it goes against standards of quality, pull up the rc and show us where.

727th post

who givs a shit if this map is shit or not lo maximum the hormome was alrdy fukd on osu! cuz of louis cyphre rip ; /

continue the trend

already edited my shitpost hloyy -_ -


remov 280 stremjump and we'r oko dad

VINXIS wrote:

who givs a shit if this map is shit or not lo maximum the hormome was alrdy fukd on osu! cuz of louis cyphre rip ; /

I'm pretty sure some people who care about the current ranking system care whether or not a shitmap becomes the hardest ranked map in the game but that's just my opinion. If some mappers find it (insert big fancy art phrase here xd) while the vast majority of people don't then that's whatever.

P.S this is also my opinion but I can almost guarantee this map was purely made just to be the hardest ranked hopefully not map regardless of its playability or aesthetics.

it was made to look like shit/for aesthetic purposez not to be the ahrdest ranked map u can ask monstrata huimself

if som parts that actualy "boost" sr play lik shit hed proly chang it..

what needs to happen before the ranking system is changed to combat this garbage? how has this gone on so long?

There's never going to be a complete consensus on the map, because the map looks ugly because of the song.

Some inherently agree with this idea. I'm one of those people - I think the map should look chaotic and ugly, because the song is inherently chaotic, ugly and a very rough thrash song, so it seems to fit the music perfectly to me (as long as playability hasn't been hindered).
Others inherently disagree, that ugliness should never be used as an inherent concept and that this map is bad because of it.
Which is why there's never going to be an agreement. Either way it's not against the ranking criteria, so it shouldn't stand in the way of this getting ranked.

As for playability - how much playtesting has there been? The patterns seem fine to me but I'm not good enough to judge ofc (only able to pass because hp3). That should be the determining factor here imo.

deathmarc4 wrote:

what needs to happen before the ranking system is changed to combat this garbage? how has this gone on so long?

Because AFAIK your opinion doesn't matter unless you're relevant in the mapping community, and just remember that it doesnt matter how unpolished and disgusting your map is you can just say "hurt durr that's the point you silly billy xd" its like Hollow Wings all over again. Playability should always be the most important aspect of making maps for ranking. This is a fucking game to have fun clicking circles not to have fun making "artistic" maps for teh lulz that almost no players will enjoy. If you wanna argue how this map fits the song then go ahead but you could rank shit like ZigZag Hacker and most rabbit style jump maps with that argument if you wanted to.

this entire thread is a bunch of nonsensical arguing
i mean seriously listen to yourself "ewww this map isn't aesthetic where are the qats pls only aesthetic we need triangles"

opinionz dont matter in the ranking process rofl

i think its shit but its still perfectly rankable regardless of my opinion (it also is gud at wot the map is tryna do)

snoverpk wrote:

this entire thread is a bunch of nonsensical arguing
i mean seriously listen to yourself "ewww this map isn't aesthetic where are the qats pls only aesthetic we need triangles"

no the whole thread is mre of an opinion shitfest moreso than arguments implying ur talking about "sound" aguments