是人?
dytedy wrote:
woops
Expanding on this, there are several places where the map design seems to completely defy itself in several places. To help this mod make sense, I'm going to color these points. Anything that is black is just a random comment. Anything dark red is serious, to me.Kyubey wrote:
Hell Extra is a neat difficulty, but 00:56:807 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - this feels like overkill, honestly. Such a type of repetitive 1/4 jumps in 220 BPM map is totally painful, even if sliders have bigger hit window, following it requires very good and fast control and aim, and even given that this pattern doesn't become less painful. I understand this is a hard map, 7* etc, but in the terms of design you used this one stands out of place. I hardly suggest changing it to something more befitting the whole map style, which doesn't present such a type of 1/4 jumps.
Thanks for your mod!Shiirn wrote:
Expanding on this, there are several places where the map design seems to completely defy itself in several places. To help this mod make sense, I'm going to color these points. Anything that is black is just a random comment. Anything dark red is serious, to me.Kyubey wrote:
Hell Extra is a neat difficulty, but 00:56:807 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - this feels like overkill, honestly. Such a type of repetitive 1/4 jumps in 220 BPM map is totally painful, even if sliders have bigger hit window, following it requires very good and fast control and aim, and even given that this pattern doesn't become less painful. I understand this is a hard map, 7* etc, but in the terms of design you used this one stands out of place. I hardly suggest changing it to something more befitting the whole map style, which doesn't present such a type of 1/4 jumps.
The entire map has this general feel of "I've mapped the exact same rhythm a bunch of times, it's got to be boring now, so let's do something completely different!" that many, many mappers fall victim to. Also, what happened to the new combos? They're completely differently patterned as the map goes on. What happened to the 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 jumps? they're just normal 1,2,3,4 in the kiai, or other setups.
00:30:762 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - I don't understand these. These are normal 1/2 hits, but here they're sliders, for some reason? 00:31:170 (1) - is also very hard to avoid getting a 100 on due to the nature of hold sliders and burst movement. They are sliders because i want to emphasize the lag of the bass in the music. Indeed player won't get 100 here if they hold the note for sufficient time while clicking them like normal 1/2 note.
00:35:262 (3,4,1) - There is no reason for this. This musical pattern has happened several times before and nowhere else but the kiai does it have such massive spacing. again this pattern is used to emphasize the bass at 00:35:534
00:56:807 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - As kyubey said, these are not acceptable. The music does not change here, nor does it have any beats that make these particular notes significant. While looking at the map, I was almost certain these would be part of a breakdown section, but no, they're just... randomly in the middle of a normal 1/2 section? this is exactly how the bass was being implied in the music. Listen to the music again! and for playability, I found several testplayers and I found them having no problem in this section.
00:57:898 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - I really like the stream after these notes, but these are basically mapped to nothing audible. If I strain my ears and turn up my volume to max i can maybe hear the same voice, but it only really kicks in at 00:58:443 - . But I can hear 01:06:625 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just fine so who knows maybe i'm just silly. They represent the "eheheheheheheheh" sound which is in 1/4 beat in the music
01:06:080 (1) - This has the same issue as 00:31:170 (1) - . A little-known fact is that repeats in sliders are actually much less lenient than slider endings in their hit detection windows - they're actually basically OD infinity, if your cursor isn't in the circle at the exact moment of the repeat, you break, period. (Unless this behavior has changed.). This means that the player basically has to stop-start their cursor to avoid potentially breaking basically at random. How to fix? Just move the slider after them closer or rework the pattern, if you want to keep the 1/8 repeats. that 1/8 is how the bass was implied in the music ;( and i really want to keep this as long as player would realize that they would need to hold the note for a while
01:25:716 (1) - why the fuck is there an oniichan hitsound here lol, also fuck meme hitsounding like cat meows and shit. that sound fits the music well so~
01:31:716 (1,2,3,4) - i'm pretty sure there is no 1/3 here. nope, i am mapping to the hissing sound in the music.
01:34:716 (1) - This is sliderbreak central. The slidertick is invisible during play, so the slowdown is extremely hard to gauge, and since it's invisible, even if the player knows that it's a slowdown, it's hard to tell when you can depart from the slider early to hit 01:34:989 (1) - . That said, I really, really like the pattern before it, it's really cool! I already use NC to hint players and I hope it would be fine?
01:38:534 (2,3,4) - See, normally you'd go "wel this is like 00:35:262 (3,4,1) - so it can't be okay right? well, the 2 here at least is pointed at the next note so it's not quite as shitty flow, and it's a downward motion which is easier than left->right+down, but the spacing is still pretty dumb. That's not true. With the jumpy slider jump, players would have their flow directed to 01:38:739 (3) - smoothly as the player would move their cursor in a pretty fast way.
01:47:262 (2,3,4) - stahp at least put the 3 closer to the previous slider ^
02:05:943 (4,1) - Seriously this is extremely unfair for the player. 90-95% of FCs will either 100 or break here and the player will never feel like it's their fault.. You can't just replace a 1/4 slider with a 1/8 with a repeat. It doesn't work like that and I don't know why two BNs thought it was okay. that 1/8 is actually representing the bass in the music.
just as a side note 02:07:034 (1,2,3,4,5) - star rating whoring pls
So as a TL;DR for a potential DQ:
00:56:807 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - These are not acceptable. The music does not change here, nor does it have any beats that make these particular notes significant. While looking at the map, I was almost certain these would be part of a breakdown section, but no, they're just... randomly in the middle of a normal 1/2 section?
01:31:716 (1,2,3,4) - i'm pretty sure there is no 1/3 here.
And the 1/8 sliders which cause unfair sliderbreaks galore - just look at the replays!
If you want me to help you go over new combos and help smooth out your patterns so they make sense with the music without being unfair for the player, feel free to message me. I actually think this map is generally fine other than the above issues, but have not looked very hard at the other difficulties. But then, apparently by looking at the Hell difficulty, I've already done more than both of the BNs.
and for 01:38:262 (1) - , according to apple they should still be considered as rankable(?) tell me if I'm wrong so that I can fix it.Okorin wrote:
Hello Regou,
I think the things which Shiirn and Kyubey pointed out should be discussed more thoroughly, so I'll take this down for the time being.
Specifically, as a player and mapper I agree that the following things should need a bit more discussion before passing on to ranked:
As expected lol
[Hell Extra!!]
00:56:807 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - This is a one of a kind pattern, I don't see that much of a reason to space it this drastically once in the entire diff and then to stop doing it. I also don't hear anything special in comparison to the rest of the section, so having a more clear explanation on what you were trying to do with this pattern would be cool.
The original idea is something like that: during mapping i heard a bass which is extended for approx. 1/2 long, followed by a weaker 1/4 sound so I attempted to use this pattern. At the same time with the identical key of the bass, i used identical slider+note pattern here to represent it. Turn out I found it was good as it allows the player to feel the bass other than the melody, making the map more interesting so I keep it. Wouldn't mind to change it to something else to push the map further forward, but if possible I'd like to keep it.
00:31:170 (1) - these and the other spaced 1/8 sliders are really easy to break on at this bpm, because of overlapping hitwindows. I think you should use them more carefully.
That's why the map is challenging . Well, during the last 2 days, I have glanced through some of the replays and I found that most of the players are able to play that kind of slider, showing that breaking at that point should be the problem of lack of skill rather than the problem of the map. On the other hand such kind of pattern also provide challenge other than fullscreen jump. Should be an interesting thing isn't it?
01:25:716 (1) - Adding a female saying "onii-chan" seems random and out of place here (same applies to the random cat hitsound, too).
Let me rephrase what is said by Mahua by a little bit (He is bad in English, attempted to say something similar but failed lol) :
" Element in EDM music diversifies and those "onii-chan" hitsound and cat hitsound should be considered as one of them but not as meme hitsound."
That's exactly what I think too, and this kind of hitsounding technique is already being used long time ago in the nuts diff in https://osu.ppy.sh/s/5875, which tons of random hitsound that fits the song was used. From my perspective they don't really feel so awkward and some of the players do like it, too (hi Kyubey), so I'd try to keep it.
01:31:716 (1,2,3,4) - I've asked around and no one I asked heard the 1/3 here. I don't hear it either so you should really consider changing it.
Alright, if no one heard that then that should be a mistake. I changed it to 1/4 here(which should works now)
Updating the map again.Okorin wrote:
This is all my personal opinion on things, regard it as such.
I believe the slider which is mentioned is on-screen on both 4:3 resolutions and 16:9 so I wouldn't have any problems with them being like this (doublecheck that yourself ingame using a 4:3 resolution).
00:56:807 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - the reasoning you provided for this is something among the lines of >I want this to be unique<, but then my next question would be why do you only do it once? It's not really expectable since you don't do anything like it before or after the pattern that would hint at its existence (so i'd be either for do it more often or get rid of it, as both will make the map more coherent).
The reason of doing it once only is I want to show the melody as well so I did it in the next section 01:05:534 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - and for the reason why I didn't do that before, it is because I want to show that the first section starting from 00:20:807 (1) - and the second section starting from 00:55:716 (1) - are quite different and I used this pattern to tell the player.
01:10:443 (5) - http://puu.sh/pXo3b/354f9ed194.jpg I think playing a quint for this one plays better by the way, a semi random quad just leaves you hanging after 4 clicks
of course it would be easier to play, but in the music that "ha" sound does extended by exactly 1/1 beat so it might not be a good idea.
02:07:716 (1,2,3,4) - i think playing spaced 220 bpm quads in the end is a bit overkill. I would have gone for an 1/2 slider for this one instead because that seems more fair.
If I removed the stream then this 02:08:807 (1,2,3) - would look kinda odd. Anyway if you guys think it is way too difficult to play, here's a good news: i reduced the spacing(by a bit)
Not really happy with your onii-chan hitsound explanation as it's basically "someone else did something like this so i would like to as well", i think it drags the level of seriousness in the set down by being so out of place, the opinions of others would be appreciated
yup. Let's see what do other people say and go back to a conclusion later. by the way I didn't do that because someone else did that so I try it too, but want to make my hitsound unique. Don't get me wrong I'm saying that someone did that too because I want to show you that was allowed before and properly, should be allowed in this time too.
Okorin wrote:
Hello Regou,
I think the things which Shiirn and Kyubey pointed out should be discussed more thoroughly, so I'll take this down for the time being.
Specifically, as a player and mapper I agree that the following things should need a bit more discussion before passing on to ranked:
[Hell Extra!!]
00:56:807 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - This is a one of a kind pattern, I don't see that much of a reason to space it this drastically once in the entire diff and then to stop doing it. I also don't hear anything special in comparison to the rest of the section, so having a more clear explanation on what you were trying to do with this pattern would be cool.
playable
00:31:170 (1) - these and the other spaced 1/8 sliders are really easy to break on at this bpm, because of overlapping hitwindows. I think you should use them more carefully.
playable and easy to combo
01:25:716 (1) - Adding a female saying "onii-chan" seems random and out of place here (same applies to the random cat hitsound, too).
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/437683 https://osu.ppy.sh/s/5875
01:31:716 (1,2,3,4) - I've asked around and no one I asked heard the 1/3 here. I don't hear it either so you should really consider changing it.playable and fun
Hollow Wings wrote:
one can play a map well, but you can't. then you're just too weak.
[Mahua] wrote:
Hollow Wings wrote:
one can play a map well, but you can't. then you're just too weak.
I appreciate of 384059043's opinion.The "oniichan" hitsound placed on 01:26:262 is reasonable,for it's a symbol of transition in the map.The hitsounds in patterns between 01:26:262 (1) - and 01:25:716 (1) - is weak,but latter patterns(start from 01:26:262 (1) - ) have strong rhythms on account of hitsounds like drums.Deserved to be mentioned,the "yamete oo~" hitsound in this map (on 03:50:213 (1) - ) has the same effect.384059043 wrote:
The "oniichan" hitsound is well-timed as "chan" is on 01:26:262, and thus, as I comprehend, it can indicate the change in music vividly, suggest the increased intensity in kiai, arouse players' attention to the hard part, and add fun to the map.
VINXIS wrote:
did u afraid when u see my ak74
--------------------------------------byfar wrote:
yea.
so here comes an easier pattern which should make more sense to you now.Shiirn wrote:
I have a hard time believing that there are people who seriously believe that having the absolute hardest part of the map be at a random part near the beginning rather than a musically significant portion later on, near the start or end of the chorus, is okay and makes sense.
It's like having an obstacle course that is perfectly normal except that a crazed hobo comes and beats the shit out of you out of nowhere during the easiest challenge.
You can call it "emphasis" or whatever the fuck you want, the fact of the matter is that that portion is completely the same as most of the rest of the section but features the absolute hardest pattern in the entire map. It's not about whether the pattern is playable, but whether it makes sense. And it doesn't make sense.
No rational person can defend it for any reason other than spite. You want to use that pattern, use it near the end of the chorus or something. But otherwise, quit spending days or possibly weeks making up bullshit for a problem you can fix in ten minutes.
2b maps are also playable, yet, it does not make them rankable. Care to provide an explanation based on the actual music structure?[Mahua] wrote:
Okorin wrote:
Hello Regou,
I think the things which Shiirn and Kyubey pointed out should be discussed more thoroughly, so I'll take this down for the time being.
Specifically, as a player and mapper I agree that the following things should need a bit more discussion before passing on to ranked:
[Hell Extra!!]
00:56:807 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - This is a one of a kind pattern, I don't see that much of a reason to space it this drastically once in the entire diff and then to stop doing it. I also don't hear anything special in comparison to the rest of the section, so having a more clear explanation on what you were trying to do with this pattern would be cool.
playable
00:31:170 (1) - these and the other spaced 1/8 sliders are really easy to break on at this bpm, because of overlapping hitwindows. I think you should use them more carefully.
playable and easy to combo
01:25:716 (1) - Adding a female saying "onii-chan" seems random and out of place here (same applies to the random cat hitsound, too).
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/437683 https://osu.ppy.sh/s/5875
01:31:716 (1,2,3,4) - I've asked around and no one I asked heard the 1/3 here. I don't hear it either so you should really consider changing it.
refer to the posts above and you maybe able to get your answer \:D/Bakari wrote:
2b maps are also playable, yet, it does not make them rankable. Care to provide an explanation based on the actual music structure?