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In your eyes, how relevant is ranking to skill?

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I Give Up
Does not matter, the community can easily determine who are legit players by looking at their live play or by other trustworthy players vouching for them. The same way that multi-accounts are rooted out from us legit players.

https://osu.ppy.sh/p/playerranking/?m=0&s=1&r=&q=&f=
Yuudachi-kun

KukiMonster wrote:

Does not matter, the community can easily determine who are legit players by looking at their live play or by other trustworthy players vouching for them. The same way that multi-accounts are rooted out from us legit players.
So you're suggesting an acceptable solution is manually looking over everyone in said ranking? That sounds like a pretty bad solution to me. And remember, you can't have it for just mouse only + everyone else. It has to be for all play styles.
I Give Up
And no I am saying it does not matter. That's why I wrote it does not matter.

Yes it will be tablet/kb, mouse/kb, mouse only, tablet only, and touch. Or something similar.
Yuudachi-kun

KukiMonster wrote:

And no I am saying it does not matter. That's why I wrote it does not matter.
I thought you meant it doesn't matter that we can't really tell and have to give their words for it and will just resort to having a manual input of these leaderboards.


OKAY, so you're saying that we're going to have these playstyle leaderboards where a lot of the people in it aren't really legit, but the "community" will just know who's legit and who isn't.
Myles
I dont think ranking matters to show how "good" you are :3. I honestly stopping giving a shit about ranking for a month.
ithgyu
cats are better than dogs, they are less maintenance


Mahogany is also pretty autistic lmao
StephOsu

II Jelli II wrote:

cats are better than dogs, they are less maintenance

lmao
Mahogany
itt people who can't handle how cool I am
Yuudachi-kun

Mahogany wrote:

itt people who can't handle how cool I am
Himiko
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Yuudachi-kun
>>Mouse only was how osu was meant to be played when Ouendan was a DS game with a stylus
Himiko
.
Yuudachi-kun

Himiko wrote:

Khelly wrote:

>>Mouse only was how osu was meant to be played when Ouendan was a DS game with a stylus
And? It is still the original way the game is meant to be played, so I do not see the merit in your statement.
I don't see how this addresses the fact that the original game is meant to be played with a stylus that naturally corresponds to a tablet pen. Why do you think the original incomplete version of this game is the way it's meant to be played rather than something unfinished and hacked together?

Edit: It's not even MY logic - it's YOUR logic. When you say that just because whatever peppy made in 2007 was mouse only means osu is supposed to be mouse only, I say that because the original DS games are meant to be played with stylus means osu is supposed to be played with a tablet.
Hibiya-chan
Osu! should have separate leaderboards to make the ranking at least fair enough...
  • Mouse & Keyboard
    Tablet & Keyboard
    Mouse only
    Tablet only
    Touchscreen
But I guess that won't happen sadly.

About the relevance of ranking to skill...

Himiko wrote:

There isn't a clear-cut way to automatically determine a player's overall skill just by looking at their rank.
^^^ This says it all.
Himiko
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Yuudachi-kun
I'd say that since it is based off of Ouendan means the intended playstyle should be identical.


Actually I say there is no fucking intended playstyle and peppy just started with what was easiest to support at first.
Himiko
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Yuudachi-kun
If by " originally intended" you mean "This is all I am supporting right now" then okay. OH wai

Now tell me how you're supposed to balance these playstyles? Because I don't think it's possible, probable, or even necessary at all. Also, tell me why you think they're imbalanced. If tablet players dominate top 50, is this simply because more people use tablet or because tablet is better?

Should I get a score multiplier for using the mouse? How will osu know I am using the mouse over a tablet?
Hibiya-chan

Khelly wrote:

How will osu know I am using the mouse over a tablet?
The reason why separate leaderboards are impossible :( :( :(

Khelly wrote:

If tablet players dominate top 50, is this simply because more people use tablet or because tablet is better?
I'm not supposed to answer this question but it's because both I guess.
Himiko
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vsprite
tldr play more
Hvick711
tldr; if you don't play with a mouse, you're shit and you're abusing the system.
Yolshka
I feel like the difference between mouse and tablet only really matters at like 3 digits.
I'm satisfied with my mouse, but I don't think there would be much of a difference in performance using tablet at 40k.
and come on it isn't that hard to aim with mouse. :D
but maybe i'm missing something
buny
nah every 5 digit mouse player would be top 10 if they used tablet
Himiko
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Hibiya-chan
Ok, imo, tablets have easier tracking ability thus making it faster for the user to improve while mice, on the other hand, needs practice in its tracking ability thus taking time to improve. But it doesn't mean that mouse is bad and can't get better than tablets :)

My point is: Tab players get a head start (unless they're a former mouse user who switched to a tablet)
I Give Up

_StormEx_ wrote:

Khelly wrote:

How will osu know I am using the mouse over a tablet?
The reason why separate leaderboards are impossible :( :( :(
As I said before, it doesn't matter if osu is "smart" enough to determine what device you are using (although touch screen would be easy to determine). Just as osu isn't smart enough to detect multi accounting (to a degree), or what country you are really playing from (proxy anyone?), or what gender/age/keyboard/etc. Or if you want to be a paranoid and always worry about "is his profile really legit????" might as well assume every fast developing player is a smurf or multi-account till proven innocent if you're really that worried about even a player's input device.

Khelly wrote:

So you're suggesting an acceptable solution is manually looking over everyone in said ranking? That sounds like a pretty bad solution to me.
Yeah well I disagree, that is the most reliable solution and till this day manual analysis has been the best solution to weed out cheaters even one's out of the top #10 global. Likewise if a new rising mouse star pops out of no-where a lot of players are not going to believe he is fair player, let alone a fair mouse player. Which is why a lot of these new players post live play as evidence anyway, and there are many experienced players that always analyse shady replays.

_StormEx_ wrote:

Osu! should have separate leaderboards to make the ranking at least fair enough...
I don't think dissecting the global performance rank into separate input device groups is necessary. A simple input device column with sorting option would suffice. And I did not bring this up as a matter of fairness, but more as a matter of convenience. I personally don't mind racing against tablet players, it doesn't really matter to me as I know tablet always has the advantage. I just want to know what the mouse player ranks are, instead of manually maintaining a monthly updated one. And sorting through thousands of profiles which no-one has time for and I will never do that lol.
Hibiya-chan

KukiMonster wrote:

Likewise if a new rising mouse star pops out of no-where a lot of players are not going to believe he is fair player, let alone a fair mouse player. Which is why a lot of these new players post live play as evidence anyway, and there are many experienced players that always analyse shady replays.
Justice for mouse players!1!1!1! :( :( :(
Yuudachi-kun
Manual checking isn't a good solution because it's unweildy to check every single player - the leaderboard would be full of people who arent mouse players and what use is that leaderboard's integrity anyays if you can only keep tabs on say the top 50?
I Give Up
Late reply haven't had much internet access. No you don't have to check every single player, just the ones we don't know of, or have abnormal skill growth. And like I said, strong mouse players that don't provide any supporting evidence hold no credibility anyway so it doesn't really matter if they lie.
Yuudachi-kun

KukiMonster wrote:

No you don't have to check every single player, just the ones we don't know of, or have abnormal skill growth. And like I said, strong mouse players that don't provide any supporting evidence hold no credibility anyway so it doesn't matter if they lie.

And I'm saying having a listing like that were the only check is pressing a button and lying makes the entire thing useless; there's no integrity and a lot of it becomes useless noise. Your hand picked mouse user top list is even better than that.
Endaris
How did this thread blow up like that?
Mahogany
Because touchscreens and star ratings and PP systems and very very very angry people
Yuudachi-kun
I think touchscreens are ok
Mahogany
Touchscreens are fine themselves, just the ranking system doesn't account for them at all
Sup A Noob
Because we demand balance in a game that can't make it happen.
Hibiya-chan

Sup A Noob wrote:

Because we demand balance in a game that can't make it happen.
StephOsu
balance in rhythm game ROFLMAO
it's like trying to say that olympic is balanced for everyone
hyouri
From title: Ranking to skill

in most cases no. There are probably some ~10k players who are worse than ~20k players who have HDHR-only top scores with good acc while some if not most 10k players have DT-only or nomod scores from tillerino...
Dextersydney
you suck at this game if you think rank = skill.
bye
touch screen is still impressive.
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