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In your eyes, how relevant is ranking to skill?

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Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Mahogany wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

Seriously PP means like fucking nothing
Lmao no, not in any fucking way is this true

Lampranthus wrote:

Also, the fact that an FC is basically needed to get PP really limits what people are encouraged to get good at and see as metagame
????????

The whole idea of an AIM GAME such as this is to NOT MISS

If you MISS in an AIM GAME you should be appropriately NOT REWARDED

Are you really suggesting that we should reward people who don't hit the circles?

Lampranthus wrote:

Do you consider a player who can semi-accurately hit a 7* lesser than you cause he can't FC stuff 5* stuff?
In terms of PP, he's at the level of whatever he can FC.
Woah calm down cheerio your hostility is ???
Did I kill your mom or something lol


(going to slip in that my next statement is going against the idea that PP is equivalent to rigid overall skill)
PP =/= skill; don't tell me someone who's rank is decaying at 1k just cause they're not farming is equivalent to someone who's on a daily mission to get one more PP. PP is equal to the amount of achievements someone has, don't tell me this isn't true lol
Not everyone actually plays the game to farm PP

and yeah man, it's an aim game, but the fact that you need an FC to get changes the metagame regardless even if it's the better system lol I never said anything about it being a bad one wtf

and yeah in terms of PP; this is why it's not valued at all to actually get better at harder things and instead improve what you're already good at
If someone wants to see improving accuracies on harder songs even if they don't FC as skill but PP represents FC ability, they won't regard that as a viable niche skill
It's relative

idk what you didn't get here



I literally don't see any way how you can reply to this with any contradiction lol
Last edited by Hinpoppo , edited 2 times in total.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

ShadyAngel wrote:

TheArchist wrote:

To answer main question in the title: pp is not skill, but skill can get you pp.
Though you can't really have less skill, than the amount required to reach your pp.
I don't know where you failed to read this.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

Lampranthus wrote:

PP =/= skill
Untrue. You cannot have a lot of PP without having a lot of skill.

Lampranthus wrote:

but the fact that you need an FC to get changes the metagame
Changes what metagame? FC has ALWAYS been the metagame.

Lampranthus wrote:

PP =/= skill; don't tell me someone who's rank is decaying at 1k just cause they're not farming is equivalent to someone who's on a daily mission to get one more PP.
I have no idea wtf you're saying here

Someone at 1k is generally more skilled than an average 2k player
Someone at 1k is generally less skilled than the average rank ~500 player

There's nothing more to understand here

Lampranthus wrote:

this is why it's not valued at all to actually get better at harder things
TIL Aiming is easy

Lampranthus wrote:

If someone wants to see improving accuracies on harder songs even if they don't FC as skill
They're then wrong because the goal of the aim game is to not miss anything, not to miss less but still with missing

Lampranthus wrote:

I literally don't see any way how you can reply to this with any contradiction lol
I literally don't see how you can be this wrong about everything
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
The goal of the game is to aim without missing and then hit as accurately as possible for max pp :^)
Hvick711
73 posts
Joined July 2014
Hvick711
just get gut.
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Mahogany wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

PP =/= skill
Untrue. You cannot have a lot of PP without having a lot of skill.
You forgot to add in the part I edited in saying that in terms of rigid skill when comparing two players, you can't base their overall skill on PP. This is why we have PP farm maps and then normal maps
But yeah generally speaking that's true

Mahogany wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

but the fact that you need an FC to get changes the metagame
Changes what metagame? FC has ALWAYS been the metagame.
Wasn't referring to what this game has been; I was referring that in general FC requirement makes the game what it is and without it the metagame would be completely different.

Mahogany wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

PP =/= skill; don't tell me someone who's rank is decaying at 1k just cause they're not farming is equivalent to someone who's on a daily mission to get one more PP.
I have no idea wtf you're saying here

Someone at 1k is generally more skilled than an average 2k player
Someone at 1k is generally less skilled than the average rank ~500 player

There's nothing more to understand here
>Generally
And then you meet that one guy who kicks your ass straight to your face on deathstreams and retarded jumps but just cause he can't FC little boo boo best ppriends his rank is under yours and plenty others
Unless you mean FCing Best Friends is undisputed skill and that skill isn't relative and then at that point that's your choice to make

Mahogany wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

this is why it's not valued at all to actually get better at harder things
TIL Aiming is easy
TIL easy is relative

Mahogany wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

I literally don't see any way how you can reply to this with any contradiction lol
I literally don't see how you can be this wrong about everything
Lol look up relativity real quick


Lampranthus wrote:

If someone wants to see improving accuracies on harder songs even if they don't FC as skill
They're then wrong because the goal of the aim game is to not miss anything, not to miss less but still with missing[/quote]
Wow since when can you decide what a viable goal is lmfao
I don't think I need to say that improving your accuracy on a song that is way beyond your level BPM-wise is a dumb skill unless you want to only FC low BPM pp farm maps idk
FCing aim charts is all that the game is yep yep
uberpancake
160 posts
Joined December 2012
uberpancake
As others mentioned, rank shows how good you atleast are. Ofc you can be underranked but you can't be overranked.

That's my view on it atleast
Last edited by uberpancake , edited 1 time in total.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
Just ignore Mahogany, he's pretty autistic.





As for serious answer, ranking will always be relevant to skill in some sort of degree no matter the system, because it always requires some sort of skill to climb a ranking (unless you're rolling the RNG ladder).

That doesn't mean that a higher ranked player will always be better than the lower ranked player, it just means that the higher ranked player achieved something monumental whereas the lower ranked player hasn't, either because of a lack of skill or time.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

Lampranthus wrote:

You forgot to add in the part I edited in saying that in terms of rigid skill when comparing two players, you can't base their overall skill on PP. This is why we have PP farm maps and then normal maps
Yes you can, because all players have access to the exact same maps.

Lampranthus wrote:

I was referring that in general FC requirement makes the game what it is and without it the metagame would be completely different.
Um, okay? I really don't get what sort of point you were trying to make by that.

Lampranthus wrote:

just cause he can't FC little boo boo best ppriends his rank is under yours and plenty others
Yes, because your rank is determined by what you can FC. Have you played this game? If I can FC Best friendS and that person can't, then what does that say about our skills in comparison?

If he had serious deathstreaming skills then that person would be able to earn PP on deathstream maps, and get a rank higher than mine. If they didn't, then they don't.

Lampranthus wrote:

Unless you mean FCing Best Friends is undisputed skill and that skill isn't relative and then at that point that's your choice to make
Um FCing best friends is skill because you need the aim to make the jumps, the speed to hit the circles, and the acc to hit stuff on time. Yes, FCing best friends does require skill, and you cannot dispute that.

Lampranthus wrote:

Wow since when can you decide what a viable goal is lmfao
do you seriously not understand what aim means

Lampranthus wrote:

FCing aim charts is all that the game is yep yep
* All the ranking system and skill system is *

You can still play for fun m8

a loli wrote:

Just ignore Mahogany, he's pretty autistic.
> literally called "a loli"

> calling other people autistic
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Mahogany wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

Unless you mean FCing Best Friends is undisputed skill and that skill isn't relative and then at that point that's your choice to make
Um FCing best friends is skill because you need the aim to make the jumps, the speed to hit the circles, and the acc to hit stuff on time. Yes, FCing best friends does require skill, and you cannot dispute that.
Can't be bothered to reply to anything else but if you say best friends requires speed lmao
And everything else you just said is an integral part of the game that is done through rote learning and not by honing any specific skillset considering best friends is like what OD8

And if your rank and skill level is determined by FCing Best Friends I might never play this game again; that's just a map you're required to play to stay viable in ranking at that point



Also if you're talking shit about some guy who's called a loli you might want to change your profile pic cause there are a lot of people who would disagree with your tastes too
Caenis
112 posts
Joined July 2014
Caenis
.
Last edited by Caenis , edited 1 time in total.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Leave my good friend buny alone
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

Lampranthus wrote:

Can't be bothered to reply to anything else but if you say best friends requires speed lmao
And everything else you just said is an integral part of the game that is done through rote learning and not by honing any specific skillset considering best friends is like what OD8

And if your rank and skill level is determined by FCing Best Friends I might never play this game again; that's just a map you're required to play to stay viable in ranking at that point



Also if you're talking shit about some guy who's called a loli you might want to change your profile pic cause there are a lot of people who would disagree with your tastes too

And there falls the mask of the nice and empathic forum-user. Jumping onto the train of attacking players directly right away instead of keeping the discussion based on opinions, examples, arguments and bad arguments.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

Lampranthus wrote:

Can't be bothered to reply to anything else but if you say best friends requires speed lmao
Uh yeah you need to be able to play 168bpm to play Best friendS duh
Someone who literally just started playing rhythm games might not have proper speed to keep up with the map accurately. So yeah, it requires speed.

I never said it required a lot of speed, it just requires speed in some form and quantity.
Not to mention if you're playing it DT. Especially if you're playing it DT.

But sure, everything I said is invalid because of your misunderstanding of a single point I made, whatever works for you.

Endaris wrote:

And there falls the mask of the nice and empathic forum-user. Jumping onto the train of attacking players directly right away instead of keeping the discussion based on opinions, examples, arguments and bad arguments.
Endaris you're my hero

Lampranthus wrote:

Also if you're talking shit about some guy who's called a loli
I'm talking shit about hypocrisy, not talking shit about people liking lolis. Lolis are fine.
Last edited by Mahogany , edited 1 time in total.
Hvick711
73 posts
Joined July 2014
Hvick711
Guys remember to play 3 star maps so you can eventually surpass the top players.
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Endaris wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

Can't be bothered to reply to anything else but if you say best friends requires speed lmao
And everything else you just said is an integral part of the game that is done through rote learning and not by honing any specific skillset considering best friends is like what OD8

And if your rank and skill level is determined by FCing Best Friends I might never play this game again; that's just a map you're required to play to stay viable in ranking at that point



Also if you're talking shit about some guy who's called a loli you might want to change your profile pic cause there are a lot of people who would disagree with your tastes too

And there falls the mask of the nice and empathic forum-user. Jumping onto the train of attacking players directly right away instead of keeping the discussion based on opinions, examples, arguments and bad arguments.
I never said I hated the MLP fandom, I just said that there are a ton of people who would disagree with it and they shouldn't be making fun of someone's ign lol

But oops I'm getting pretty exhausted, should probably just leave


Mahogany wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

Also if you're talking shit about some guy who's called a loli
I'm talking shit about hypocrisy, not talking shit about people liking lolis. Lolis are fine.
You just said that his name was autistic ???
I get that it was self-defense thou

And yeah best friends isn't beginner level, the target audience isn't for completely new players


I'm train hopping this thread is hurting my brain
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

Lampranthus wrote:

I never said I hated the MLP fandom, I just said that there are a ton of people who would disagree with it and they shouldn't be making fun of someone's ign lol

But oops I'm getting pretty exhausted, should probably just leave
You have to understand that you commented on Mahogany here because you were discussing against him.
After all it was a loli (aka buny) who just came in here and said:
Just ignore Mahogany, he's pretty autistic.
And what did you do?
Defending buny (who was called "loli sex slave" for a while until someone reported him and he was forced to change his nick name) instead of calling both of them idiots.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

Lampranthus wrote:

I never said I hated the MLP fandom, I just said that there are a ton of people who would disagree with it and they shouldn't be making fun of someone's ign lol

Lampranthus wrote:

You just said that his name was autistic ???
I get that it was self defense though
My intention was to criticize the hypocrisy of calling me autistic while the person themselves had a moniker that could also be considered autistic. I don't have a problem with Lolis myself, just the fact that buny would make such a statement while having that name

Yes, My Little Pony has some sort of sentiment relating to "Autism". That's a fair observation. However, Lolis would carry a similar connotation, and I was just pointing out how hypocritical it was to call me Autistic as an insult when they themselves have something that would invite the same response.

Lampranthus wrote:

And yeah best friends isn't beginner level, the target audience isn't for completely new players
So you admit that it requires some form of speed

I hope you understand what I mean then
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Endaris wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

I never said I hated the MLP fandom, I just said that there are a ton of people who would disagree with it and they shouldn't be making fun of someone's ign lol

But oops I'm getting pretty exhausted, should probably just leave
You have to understand that you commented on Mahogany here because you were discussing against him.
After all it was a loli (aka buny) who just came in here and said:
Just ignore Mahogany, he's pretty autistic.
And what did you do?
Defending buny (who was called "loli sex slave" for a while until someone reported him and he was forced to change his nick name) instead of calling both of them idiots.
LOL

And I don't call that a civil discussion either, it started off pretty rough

Mahogany wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

I never said I hated the MLP fandom, I just said that there are a ton of people who would disagree with it and they shouldn't be making fun of someone's ign lol

Lampranthus wrote:

You just said that his name was autistic ???
I get that it was self defense though
My intention was to criticize the hypocrisy of calling me autistic while the person themselves had a moniker that could also be considered autistic. I don't have a problem with Lolis myself, just the fact that buny would make such a statement while having that name
Yeah okay, I just think the name is ironic at this point considering it would be like impossible to get a name like that

Yes, My Little Pony has some sort of sentiment relating to "Autism". That's a fair observation. However, Lolis would carry a similar connotation, and I was just pointing out how hypocritical it was to call me Autistic as an insult when they themselves have something that would invite the same response.

Mahogany wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

And yeah best friends isn't beginner level, the target audience isn't for completely new players
So you admit that it requires some form of speed

I hope you understand what I mean then
I mean I guess? I don't call that speed though, just aim and approach rate making it look like it's fast
I consider speed=BPM
Barusamikosu
1,100 posts
Joined July 2014
Barusamikosu
Maho is right because I get to feel good about doing something that by definition required skill
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Barusamikosu wrote:

Maho is right because I get to feel good about doing something that by definition required skill
SSing a 4 minute song is daunting in itself
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
And I don't call that a civil discussion either, it started off pretty rough
I'm aware but you weren't as far as calling other people names.

Also you might want to fix your quoting there, you can't use more than 2 quotes in each other unless you're using the forum-alpha/beta at http://new.ppy.sh
Hvick711
73 posts
Joined July 2014
Hvick711
Nice drama
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

Lampranthus wrote:

I consider speed=BPM
But even if it's a speed you and I would consider low at our current skill levels, it's still something that needs to be learnt. A new rhythm game player isn't going to be able to consistently and accurately singletap 168bpm as soon as they start playing: They need to start on easies and normals and slowly build their way up to that speed. They learn and gain the speed-related skills required to singletap 168, something that does require skills in terms of speed.

Yes, it's not much speed required, but there still is a speed requirement. It does exist, as low as it might be. (also DT)
Last edited by Mahogany , edited 1 time in total.
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Endaris wrote:

And I don't call that a civil discussion either, it started off pretty rough
I'm aware but you weren't as far as calling other people names.

Also you might want to fix your quoting there, you can't use more than 2 quotes in each other unless you're using the forum-alpha/beta at http://new.ppy.sh
I'm a pretty shitty person honestly, I'm not above human standards lol

-Toushin wrote:

Nice drama
Welcome to oss (?)
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
I tend to forget that autism is a very sensitive topic among the osu community.
Hvick711
73 posts
Joined July 2014
Hvick711

a loli wrote:

I tend to forget that autism is a very sensitive topic among the osu community.
Very
Xyrus_old_1
407 posts
Joined October 2015
Xyrus_old_1

Endaris wrote:

Also you might want to fix your quoting there, you can't use more than 2 quotes in each other unless you're using the forum-alpha/beta at http://new.ppy.sh
Alpha sucks cuz no spoiler tags :(
KanoSet
906 posts
Joined October 2014
KanoSet

-Toushin wrote:

a loli wrote:

I tend to forget that autism is a very sensitive topic among the osu community.
Very
Very
Aktsumi
71 posts
Joined March 2015
Aktsumi
Ranking = skill
this is why you don't retry the same thing over and over again just to get a high score [or use mods]
because it's not helping your consistency or reading skills. it's raising your rank.
StephOsu
1,216 posts
Joined February 2015
StephOsu

Lampranthus wrote:

I consider speed=BPM

I partially disagree on this
I mean yeah BPM can be the measurement for speed but we also have stuffs like AR which determines the speed as well.
We can deem the beatmap as "too fast to aim/tap" if we can't tap it on time not because the BPM is too high, but the AR is too high instead, ain't we?
We can also deem the beatmap as "too fast for me to aim/tap" if the beatmap has jumps that's too hard for us/overmapped, ain't we?
I think that there's a lot of factors to determine if a beatmap is fast, including player skills.
I might be a filthy 23k rank but I would like to, and I have the right to voice my opinion as well.

KanoSet wrote:

-Toushin wrote:

a loli wrote:

I tend to forget that autism is a very sensitive topic among the osu community.

Very

Very

Very
Last edited by StephOsu , edited 1 time in total.
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

StephOsu wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

I consider speed=BPM
I partially disagree on this
I mean yeah BPM can be the measurement for speed but we also have stuffs like AR which determines the speed as well.
We can deem the beatmap as "too fast to aim/tap" if we can't tap it on time not because the BPM is too high, but the AR is too high instead, ain't we?
We can also deem the beatmap as "too fast for me to aim/tap" if the beatmap has jumps that's too hard for us/overmapped, ain't we?
I think that there's a lot of factors to determine if a beatmap is fast, including player skills.
I might be a filthy 23k rank but I would like to, and I have the right to voice my opinion as well.
That is completely true, but I suppose this could also be considered reading speed? idk
Of course the term in itself is relative, as most of the very foundation of any term that is a symbol for something.
And you don't need to be a high rank to have an understanding of the game lol, many people have been playing for years and know the ins-and-outs of the games yet don't increase their rank for whatever reason.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

StephOsu wrote:

I partially disagree on this
I mean yeah BPM can be the measurement for speed but we also have stuffs like AR which determines the speed as well.
We can deem the beatmap as "too fast to aim/tap" if we can't tap it on time not because the BPM is too high, but the AR is too high instead, ain't we?
We can also deem the beatmap as "too fast for me to aim/tap" if the beatmap has jumps that's too hard for us/overmapped, ain't we?
I think that there's a lot of factors to determine if a beatmap is fast, including player skills.
I might be a filthy 23k rank but I would like to, and I have the right to voice my opinion as well.
Anything below 240 bpm is below average - Khelly
StephOsu
1,216 posts
Joined February 2015
StephOsu

Lampranthus wrote:

That is completely true, but I suppose this could also be considered reading speed? idk
Of course the term in itself is relative, as most of the very foundation of any term that is a symbol for something.
And you don't need to be a high rank to have an understanding of the game lol, many people have been playing for years and know the ins-and-outs of the games yet don't increase their rank for whatever reason.
IMO it's fair to consider reading speed as a form of "speed" skill that's required to complete a beatmap, and it's quite hard to gauge it since every player has different level of skill which cause them to consider a beatmap "fast"
Just for reference, my friends (who don't play this game) usually ask me this same ""How do you even keep up the speed?" question over again and again whenever I show them my 4.5*+ FCs, be it trash acc or good acc. While they think that it's too fast for them, I think that it's slow enough for me to shitmiss play it

Khelly wrote:

Anything below 240 bpm is below average - Khelly
Khelly > Hvick/Cookiezi/Rafis wen
Last edited by StephOsu , edited 2 times in total.
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Khelly wrote:

StephOsu wrote:

I partially disagree on this
I mean yeah BPM can be the measurement for speed but we also have stuffs like AR which determines the speed as well.
We can deem the beatmap as "too fast to aim/tap" if we can't tap it on time not because the BPM is too high, but the AR is too high instead, ain't we?
We can also deem the beatmap as "too fast for me to aim/tap" if the beatmap has jumps that's too hard for us/overmapped, ain't we?
I think that there's a lot of factors to determine if a beatmap is fast, including player skills.
I might be a filthy 23k rank but I would like to, and I have the right to voice my opinion as well.
Anything below 240 bpm is below average - Khelly
>Streams ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Lampranthus wrote:

>Streams ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Excuse to post this

SPOILER
StephOsu
1,216 posts
Joined February 2015
StephOsu

Khelly wrote:

Excuse to post this

SPOILER
nice self-promotion
can't find any acc in there
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Khelly wrote:

Lampranthus wrote:

>Streams ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Excuse to post this

SPOILER
Meanwhile people can't clear delrio
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
I 0 missed delrio and I was really sad because I sliderbroke a place I never did. :(

SPOILER
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Khelly wrote:

I 0 missed delrio and I was really sad because I sliderbroke a place I never did. :(

SPOILER
Do you usually miss on the streams after the jumps
Your combo on like all of your other plays lmao

*actually off-topic*
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