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David Wise - Fear Factory

posted
Total Posts
118
Soaprman
1,392 posts
Joined January 2008
Topic Starter
Soaprman
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Wednesday, May 14, 2014 at 8:19:46 PM

Artist: David Wise
Title: Fear Factory
Source: Donkey Kong Country
Tags: stupid gimmick map ignorethis [CSGA]Ar3sgice
BPM: 133.6
Filesize: 1855kb
Play Time: 01:19
Difficulties Available:
  1. AR3'S TAG1 (4.95 stars, 228 notes)
  2. Hard (4.64 stars, 187 notes)
  3. ignore's Bonus (5 stars, 246 notes)
  4. Insane (4.95 stars, 247 notes)
  5. Normal (2.8 stars, 101 notes)
Download: David Wise - Fear Factory
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
This map is based off of the "Blackout Basement" level from Donkey Kong Country. It's as stupid as you probably think it is.

(Protip: if you don't like the storyboard, then turn it off, ya knucklehead!)

Here are some pitch-black fruits to use for CTB if you really want to suffer: http://puu.sh/8sWML.7z

Big thanks to ignorethis and [CSGA]Ar3sgice for their guest difficulties!
Last edited by Soaprman , edited 59 times in total.
Yoshi348
113 posts
Joined June 2009
Yoshi348
00:11:333 (5) - Wants to be whistle like the other parts of this segment.

00:29:971 (1) - No problem, just want to say I really like the subtle differences in left and right to match the subtle differences in the music there.

00:58:362 - Sliders here feel like they want to be slower. Then again, it seems like .75 is the new default when I don't really feel like it's enough, at least for here. I'd play with .5 but am open to being overruled.

01:02:818 (6+) - Wild idea is to make these spiral out wider and wider each number but I don't know how practical that is at all. It's what the music sounds like to me.

01:16:829 - Don't like the extra speed sliders with no warning, but then I'm really strict on those. Freaking hate them. Very rarely feel natural.

Also your mp3 is long as my love handle but you probably already know that. Also preview point lolz

Sorry I can't be of much more help but I'm new to this tier of difficulty. Looking alright, though. And check out what it does to ctb sliders!
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
not exactly a bad idea but approach circles Must be visible and you Must have at least two different combo colors. You could make one yellow maybe make a lighter black as well? Not too bad tho might need some timing adjustments I'll look again later just giving you a heads up.
Mukku
1,434 posts
Joined February 2009
Mukku
Totally playable (fc on first try) and an awesome idea. Ranking guidelines are :'(
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot

Mukku wrote:

Totally playable (fc on first try) and an awesome idea. Ranking guidelines are :'(
Elements must be visible regardless

EDIT: Resnap all notes plz
Mukku
1,434 posts
Joined February 2009
Mukku

ztrot wrote:

Elements must be visible regardless
Ranking guidelines are :'(
Soaprman
1,392 posts
Joined January 2008
Topic Starter
Soaprman
The circles being invisible half the time is the entire point. While a rank is probably out of the question, I'd argue that the map (once finished, of course) is at least approveable, even if there are a few guidelines it doesn't acknowledge. It's both playable and unique, and what little feedback I have so far seems more positive than negative, so I think once the map (talking the normal aspects here) is up to par, there really should be no problem approving it.

I was conscious of certain playability elements when mapping this... I used no stacked notes and tried to make sure that notes aren't obscured by hitbursts. There might be a few points where I slipped up - do mention these if you find them!

After finishing the set (i.e. adding another difficulty and polishing both diffs), if it turns out that this map absolutely cannot be approved with its gimmick in place no matter what and that's final good day sir then I just won't be pursuing approval, as doing so would make it something fundamentally different from what I set out to make in the first place.

ztrot wrote:

EDIT: Resnap all notes plz
Ah yeah, I think I changed the offset at one point after changing the mp3 and forgot to do this. I'll double-check next time I'm in the editor. Thanks for mentioning this.
Mukku
1,434 posts
Joined February 2009
Mukku

Soaprman wrote:

The circles being invisible half the time is the entire point. While a rank is probably out of the question, I'd argue that the map (once finished, of course) is at least approveable, even if there are a few guidelines it doesn't acknowledge. It's both playable and unique, and what little feedback I have so far seems more positive than negative, so I think once the map (talking the normal aspects here) is up to par, there really should be no problem approving it.
You have my 100% support, yes!
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
A map with invisible elements cannot be approved.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
Your definition of approval is a bit off, Approval maps are for high score not funny game play elements that break the guidelines

15+mil scoring maps can be made into approval

Tho I think the idea is neat I don't see it fitting anywhere.
Larto
4,128 posts
Joined June 2008
Larto

ztrot wrote:

Your definition of approval is a bit off, Approval maps are for high score not funny game play elements that break the guidelines
:3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot

Larto wrote:

ztrot wrote:

Your definition of approval is a bit off, Approval maps are for high score not funny game play elements that break the guidelines
:3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3
Are we playing the this map did it so it's okay game now?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
The approach circles are part of the gameplay elements, if players want to blindly play through the map they will simply use the "Hidden" mod, there's no need to force the players to play blindly through the map. It is not allowed to skin away/hide any important to play gameplay elements, and you cant use less than 2 combo colors, aditionally, the black color is blending with the background, makes it even harder to read, not only with the StoryBoard.
Mukku
1,434 posts
Joined February 2009
Mukku

Sakura Hana wrote:

The approach circles are part of the gameplay elements, if players want to blindly play through the map they will simply use the "Hidden" mod, there's no need to force the players to play blindly through the map. It is not allowed to skin away/hide any important to play gameplay elements, and you cant use less than 2 combo colors, aditionally, the black color is blending with the background, makes it even harder to read, not only with the StoryBoard.
Hidden does not activate itself every other second like this storyboard does and the combo color issue can be dealt with by adding another very similiar black and the fact that this map is hard to read is the whole point, is it not?

Also it seems like you have not played Donkey Kong Country and cannot feel the awesome nostalgia vibes this awesome map gives you.
James2250
osu! Alumni
4,059 posts
Joined July 2008
James2250

Mukku wrote:

Also it seems like you have not played Donkey Kong Country and cannot feel the awesome nostalgia vibes this awesome map gives you.
I have played Donkey Kong Country several times and I think the sb is a nice touch and brings back memories of the level nicely.

That being said it does not belong being ranked in this condition whatever nostalgia value it has. Yes DKC had a level where you couldn't see what you were doing during gameplay, but when it comes down to it that it not what osu was made for and you can't copy the design over directly.

With a few changes you could easily keep the current storyboard while being rankable and I hope you don't give up on this because of sb reasons.
Mukku
1,434 posts
Joined February 2009
Mukku

James2250 wrote:

Mukku wrote:

Also it seems like you have not played Donkey Kong Country and cannot feel the awesome nostalgia vibes this awesome map gives you.
I have played Donkey Kong Country several times and I think the sb is a nice touch and brings back memories of the level nicely.

That being said it does not belong being ranked in this condition whatever nostalgia value it has. Yes DKC had a level where you couldn't see what you were doing during gameplay, but when it comes down to it that it not what osu was made for and you can't copy the design over directly.

With a few changes you could easily keep the current storyboard while being rankable and I hope you don't give up on this because of sb reasons.
Well whats your opinion on its approveablitiy? I think it would be plain stupid not to allow this getting approved, seeing how clever it is and how great feeling it gives during gameplay.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

ztrot wrote:

Your definition of approval is a bit off, Approval maps are for high score not funny game play elements that break the guidelines
Exactly this, and that's final. Fear Factory cannot be neither ranked nor approved in its current state. It can be left like this and still enjoyed as a non-approved "novelty" map, or some minor changes can be made so that everyone will enjoy it.

By the way: Try to give at least a little bit of respect to MATs. They know what they're talking about.
Mukku
1,434 posts
Joined February 2009
Mukku
Aww. *sadface*

I guess thats it then. I still cant help but to think that you higher-ups (what? D:) are doing the one mistake(argueable) that even the great Kong Ming had made. Which is refusing to be flexible.

I guess I'll just shut up and be a sad panda.


EDIT: Oh, if I have seemed to be disrespectful in any way, I am very sorry and would like to say that it was all unintentional. If this arguement had been done in my first language instead, I think I would've been able to maintain a more respectful tone. Uh, sorry D:
Soaprman
1,392 posts
Joined January 2008
Topic Starter
Soaprman
Wow, I didn't expect this many responses!

Alright, it's time for everyone's favorite tired (but still valid) argument: "they're just guidelines"!

Official Ranking Submission Criteria wrote:

If you are wanting to break a guideline, ask yourself only this: Does what I'm doing make sense? Is it more fun to play like this compared to if i had to stick to the guidelines? If you answer yes to both these questions then it is probably OK.
I answered yes to both of these. I genuinely think the map is, if not better, at least more interesting because of the gimmick. But let's turn this around... let's suppose they are rules instead of guidelines, since you guys appear to be treating them that way. In that case, I have a question: why do the rules exist? The map might be against the letter of the rules, but is it also against the spirit of the rules?

Whew, got that one out of the way!

ztrot wrote:

[Larto links to approved Disturbia beatmap]

Are we playing the this map did it so it's okay game now?
I understand things change over time. That's fine. But when maps like that come along, where do they go now? Even though they're unique and fun, they do bend guidelines. Do we reject them the recognition they deserve just because of this? Do you believe turning down such maps is the best decision?

James2250 wrote:

With a few changes you could easily keep the current storyboard while being rankable and I hope you don't give up on this because of sb reasons.
The few changes you speak of would turn it into a different map. And I submitted it this way because I like it this way and want it to be this way. I suppose I could just leave this and submit another version with changed combo colors and link to this one as a "bonus" from that one in the description, but eh... not sure how I'd feel about doing that. If you really want a gimmick-free version of this song (it's a pretty kickass track), you could always map it yourself... I'll gladly look at it/mod it/make a guest diff for it/whatever.

Thanks for dropping by, everyone, even if what the MATs/BATs in the crowd said was nothing but disappointing. If you think it's inappropriate to be arguing about the guidelines in a beatmap thread like this and would prefer it be taken somewhere else, let me know.

Also thanks to Mukku for holding down the fort while i was away! And Larto too... even if I'm not sure if that was a support message or a jab at ztrot. :P
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro

Soaprman wrote:

Alright, it's time for everyone's favorite tired (but still valid) argument: "they're just guidelines"!
Except this argument is not valid.
*points at sign*

"When you do something in a map that violates guidelines, and the only thing you can think of to justify it is "they are only guidelines", there is something seriously wrong."

Hiding the background with the storyboard is more than enough, and is what I would have done. Hiding gameplay elements is not a good idea.
Soaprman
1,392 posts
Joined January 2008
Topic Starter
Soaprman
I did justify it...

Soaprman wrote:

I genuinely think the map is, if not better, at least more interesting because of the gimmick.
I trust you disagree with this statement? Fair enough.

Odaril wrote:

Hiding the background with the storyboard is more than enough, and is what I would have done. Hiding gameplay elements is not a good idea.
Now this is the kind of reply I was hoping to be getting all along. An "I like it better some other way and would have done it that way" means a lot more than "this map is not allowed because of guidelines".

If you guys all think it's unplayable, or that the gimmick makes it worse, just tell me that! It is a far more valid reason to shoot down a map than pointing out that it does something more different than guidelines suggest!

Thanks for following up.

Now that I've thought about it, I'll probably go with what James2250 suggested and keep the map up but with some changes. I like Fear Factory too much to just not finish mapping it... I'll just upload the .osu of this version and link it from the beatmap description for people who want something more. I hope some of you who came by will come back and do some regular modding once I'm finished! :)
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