Soaprman wrote:

Update: removed spinner skinning (new default looks better as you can see the background during the spinner) and made the followpoints invisible. Guess that's another rule broken?

Soaprman wrote:

They are completely blacked out now. This is better than replacing them! They wouldn't be noticeable at all like this if it wasn't for the animation of them appearing.

By the way, I also tried using this one: which is also black but with a lightened border. This renders it visible at all times and looks neat but doesn't disappear when the screen goes black. Let me know if you have any opinions on using that one.

SPOILER

19:52 Kodora: O_O
19:52 Kodora: oh my god Soapman
19:52 Soaprman: sup
19:54 Kodora: lol really didn't expec to meet such old names XD
19:55 Soaprman: it does seem like most of the people who were active when i joined aren't around anymore, lol
19:57 *Kodora is playing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/136833 David Wise - Fear Factory [Insane]]
19:58 Soaprman: let me know what you think! it's not for everybody, but opinions on it are largely favorable (at least that i'm aware of)
19:58 Kodora: i feel timing a bit off in the end :<
19:59 Kodora: dont know why but notes feels later
19:59 Soaprman: hm, i'll double-check
19:59 Kodora: good old style :3
19:59 Soaprman: hell yeah. i'm no 2013 mapper
19:59 Kodora: also you can improve some slider-snape with new slider calculation
20:01 Kodora: for example
20:01 Kodora: 00:50:876 (6) -
20:02 Soaprman: i'll give that a shot, thanks
20:03 Kodora: 00:45:487 (3,4) -
20:03 Kodora: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1022663 maybe try this?
20:03 Kodora: www
20:04 Kodora: 00:52:672 (8,9) - also not symmetrial
20:05 Kodora: 01:06:145 (1,2) - i guess this blanket can be improved a bit
20:06 Kodora: most important - recheck timing pls :<
20:06 Kodora: also there are some problems with guest diffs
20:07 Kodora: of course i'm not a BAT, but anyway
20:08 Soaprman: not a problem at all. i'm fine with having things pointed out by anyone. though you're probably aware that anything unrankable is that way on purpose :p
20:08 Kodora: AR3's diff is brilliant XD
20:08 Kodora: yeah, there are some unrankable stuff in ignore's diff
20:08 Kodora: will you listen?
20:09 Soaprman: anything besides the volume?
20:09 Soaprman: the volume i'm aware of
20:09 Kodora: yea
20:09 Kodora: tickrate 0.5 not allowed anymore
20:10 Soaprman: alright, i'll see how tickrate 1 sounds on it and maybe try 5% volume instead of 0%
20:10 Soaprman: AR3's used to also do 0% but i moved that up because it really impacted playability
20:10 Kodora: volume never goes to 0% anymore
20:10 Kodora: even if you use this sections
20:10 Kodora: it will sounds as 5% anyway
20:10 Kodora: >_>
20:13 Kodora: also it's submitted for approval, yes?
20:13 Soaprman: yep
20:14 Kodora: there are actually some problems with storyboard
20:14 Kodora: uh i think you need some mods before get it approved
20:14 Soaprman: oh?
20:14 Soaprman: is it the way i did the blinking?
20:14 *Kodora is watching [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/136478 David Wise - Fear Factory [AR3'S TAG1]] |Autoplay|
20:15 Kodora: AR233's storyboard
20:15 Soaprman: are the circles misplaced on it?
20:15 Soaprman: i'm still applying your suggestions for insane lol
20:16 Kodora: not only this, they stacks perfectly while stack leniency is 0.2 (so "real" circles don't stacks while storyboarded ones stacks perfectly)
20:16 Soaprman: that might have been intentional on his part, but i will take a look at it anyway
20:17 Kodora: you probably can talk to AR233
20:17 Kodora: he is active now and guess can fix it
20:18 Soaprman: yeah, if it needs fixed i'll hit him up. he knows storyboarding way better than i do
20:18 *Kodora is playing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/136818 David Wise - Fear Factory [Hard]]
20:19 Kodora: Nothing really wrong, but there are some problems
20:19 Kodora: HP +1
20:19 Kodora: 00:04:394 (1,2) - yes, you probably can improve slider snape on this part too
20:21 Kodora: I'm not really fan of 2-reverse sliders but i guess that's intentional and not hurts a lot
20:21 Soaprman: how? i don't really want those circular (the endpoints do appear to mismatch by like 1px but that's imperceptible in gameplay)
20:22 Kodora: Ahh, then ok
20:22 Kodora: 00:50:876 (6) - but sliders like this must be fixed
20:22 Kodora: Estetical point, but
20:22 Kodora: :\
20:23 Soaprman: nah, i totally agre with fixing that one.
20:23 Soaprman: i'll fix it
20:23 Kodora: You can hide end of 00:52:672 (8) - under slidertrack of (6) (it's not perfectly hided for now)
20:24 Kodora: 00:52:672 (8,9) - and i actually suggest you use x1.20 spacing between those sliders
20:24 Kodora: it's just plays better
20:25 Soaprman: yep, fine with me
20:25 Soaprman: i'll move it right some too to flow better from the end of 8
20:25 Soaprman: and reshape it accordingluy
20:25 Kodora: 00:58:847 - 01:08:728 -
20:26 Kodora: you can try x1.20 spacing here too
20:26 Kodora: even if it is slowdown part it really plays better with more huge spacing
20:27 Kodora: there are actually some tiny grid issues - it's minor, but feels weird with x1.00 spacing
20:29 Kodora: also, why you choose black followpoints? They are invisible on black part of storyboard x.x
20:29 Soaprman: i think you just answered your own question :p
20:29 Kodora: 00:26:960 (6) - unsnapped sliderend o3o
20:30 Kodora: is this allowed
20:30 Soaprman: no idea
20:31 Soaprman: if things i do end up unrankable, i'm fine with that. i really just wish a BAT would give me a nice firm yes/no instead of leaving me hanging
20:31 *Kodora is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/136819 David Wise - Fear Factory [Normal]]
20:31 Soaprman: i always get a dancing-around "that's what approval is for" answer
20:31 Kodora: sadly i must say new approval criteria not allowes to break rules
20:32 Kodora: also new approval criteria based only on drain time :<
20:32 Kodora: but since this map was submitted in 2011 you can approve it instead of ranking
20:32 Soaprman: and i kind of suspect when i finally DO get an answer it'll be that. but i have to at least try
20:33 Kodora: up to you, but i must say that just ranking would be easier since finding 2 BATs is less pain
20:33 Soaprman: well, the map was both unrankable and unapproveable when i first submitted it
20:34 Soaprman: either way is fine with me, the only categories as far as i'm concerned are ranked+approved and everything else
20:34 Kodora: All what i can consider as unrankable now is timing what feels extremely weird, tickrate 0.5 and 0% sections
20:34 Soaprman: one is visible to everyone, the other you have to dig for
20:34 Kodora: Not sure about followpoints
20:34 Kodora: at least for now people can just disable skin
20:35 Soaprman: yeah, visual settings can be used to render this a regular beatmap
20:35 Kodora: Normal have a bit too cruel settings for a normal
20:35 Kodora: I'd suggest AR -1 and OD -2
20:36 Soaprman: those are inflated intentionally
20:36 Soaprman: since the map is fudging with its own readbility, i chose settings that make accuracy matter more
20:36 Soaprman: that's also why insane has AR 9
20:36 Kodora: AR 9 is good
20:36 Kodora: but AR 6 in normal feels a bit too much
20:36 Soaprman: i prefer 8 on it as a normal map :p
20:36 Kodora: and OD is way too cruel
20:37 Kodora: i prefer higher AR for better readability
20:37 Soaprman: i'll go with AR - 1 and OD - 2 as you said
20:37 Kodora: x3 reverse sliders are annoying, but it's fine for approval (?)
20:38 Kodora: 00:45:038 (2,3) - i guess this blanket can be a bit better
20:38 Soaprman: imo whether AR 8 or 9 is more appropriate for insane depends on the mapping style. this map isn't as frantic as most insanes are nowadays
20:39 Soaprman: lol that wasn't meant to be a blanket, but i can see how it looks like it was
20:39 Soaprman: i'll fix the angle between 3's ends and 2
20:39 Kodora: i prefer higher AR just because it reads better :3
20:39 Kodora: 00:50:876 (6,7) - oops, hided reverse
20:39 Kodora: this is unrankable
20:39 Kodora:
20:40 Soaprman: that's subjective though. i find 8 to be every bit as readable as 9 :p
20:40 Kodora: you can make it overlap a bit if you want, but 100% hided is not allowed
20:40 Soaprman: what skin do you use? are your hitbursts transparent/translucent?
20:41 Kodora: yes
20:41 Kodora: 300 are transparent
20:41 Kodora: other are just to small
20:41 Soaprman: i'll check it with the default skin. that reverse arrow is not hidden to me
20:41 Soaprman: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1022737
20:42 Soaprman: is what i see
20:42 Soaprman: i know the default ones now are small and translucent, too
20:42 Kodora: that's hidden by hitbust
20:42 Kodora: rules wasn't changed according to new default skin
20:43 Kodora: just make it overlap a bit
20:43 Soaprman: hold on, restarting osu!
20:43 Soaprman: it's also not hidden anymore by the time you're halfway through the slider (which doesn't move terribly quickly)
20:44 Soaprman: i really, truly think it's fine. i'll keep it in the back of my head though. thanks for mentioning it anyway
20:46 Kodora: probably all from me for you'r diff o.o
20:46 Kodora: i'll post about guests in thread, they needs some fixing but all this minor
20:47 Soaprman: cool. post this chat too if you want to
20:47 Kodora: sure
20:47 Soaprman: ignore's given me permission to make changes on his behalf btw
20:48 Kodora: oh then i probably can say directly here
20:49 Soaprman: go for it
20:49 Kodora: i understand why ign used silent notes here, but.. this is not only not allowed anymore, this is even not works anymore
20:49 Kodora: notes still sounds
20:49 Soaprman: yeah, i'll change them to 5%
20:50 Kodora: raise all 30% sections to 50-60%
20:50 Kodora: silent notes probably should be raised at least to 15%
20:50 Kodora: or VATs will eat you
20:50 Kodora: *BAts
20:51 Soaprman: i'm not going to go above 5% unless a BAT tells me it's the difference between approved and graved :p
20:51 Kodora: 00:11:355 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - i don't like spacing like this
20:51 Kodora: stack with (5) please?
20:52 Kodora: 00:13:151 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - same here, this is just plays bad
20:53 Kodora: 01:03:451 - add note for rhythm?
20:54 Kodora: 01:16:026 (1,2,3,4,5) - same as above
20:54 Kodora: 01:17:822 (1,2,3,4,5) -
20:54 Soaprman: on those first two, i think having the (5) separate from (1,2,3,4) makes it more readable. i'll play with it some though
20:54 Kodora: nothing really wrong, only this
20:54 Kodora: also maybe HP -1?
20:54 Kodora: 8 feels too drastic at slowdowns
20:55 Kodora: and you must change tickrate
20:55 Soaprman: <Kodora> 01:03:451 - add note for rhythm?
20:55 Soaprman: done
20:55 Soaprman: and yeah, tickrate is 1 now
20:56 *Kodora is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/136478 David Wise - Fear Factory [AR3'S TAG1]]
20:56 Kodora: did you got permissin to fix AR233's diff?
20:57 Soaprman: smaller things, though i'd prefer to leave it to him
20:57 Kodora: then i'll post in thread about it
20:57 Soaprman: alright
20:59 Kodora: oh yes add audio lead-in 2000 in all diffs
20:59 Kodora: 1500 too short
20:59 Kodora: and some diffs missing even this
21:00 Soaprman: alright
21:00 Kodora: also you need to recompress blackoutbasement.jpg to .png - it's all just to reduse filesize blame rules
21:01 Kodora: and... if you going to use your black followpoint you need to complete your skin
21:01 Kodora: single followpoint usage is not allowed

1. 00:22:582 (4,5) - Would be better if you perfectly hide it under sliderend
2. 00:31:565 (1,2,3,4,5) - Storyboarded part looks a bit off. Actually, you can add NC on storyboarded notes and to 00:32:014 (3) - , or else fake notes looks weird
3. 00:32:912 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - same here ^
4. 00:42:343 (1) - I believe this slider should starts earlier, but this is most likely timing issue, Also, you can add slowdown on it.
5. 00:50:876 (5,1,2,3) - Storyboard issue again
6. 00:54:918 (1) - This note looks a bit off from stream
7. 00:57:612 (1) - hide fake note perfectly under slidertrack?
8. 01:13:331 (1,2) - Please remove finishes
9. 01:19:057 (5) - Add finish to the end of slider?

[CSGA]Ar3sgice wrote:

The storyboard issues is because the editor has an offset, the position will be correct in play mode 0,0

SPOILER

Rad- wrote:

Hello!

I like the idea of the black objects and all fitting with the mood of the song/map personally, but it is a bit unpratical, its even easier if you play the map with hidden than without it :\ . Most of the time its actually pretty easy to click to soon because you cant see the approach circle and click too late because you couldn't see it either.
The approach circles are hard to see by design. I'm totally fine with people turning the SB or skin off or whatever to make it easier on themselves though.

Normal

- This difficulty has slider velocity too high, looks like a hard to me with its sometimes abusing spacing (jumps on a normal) and speed of sliders is too fast.
Which jumps? The map's almost entirely distance-snapped.

- 00:04:394 (1) - Make this Slider start at 00:04:169 so it doesnt start so weird and matches the rest of the sliders.
Done. Feels a little weird like this but it's totally because I'm used to how it was.

- 00:50:876 (6) - NC
- 00:54:469 (2) - NC
Done.

- 00:58:847 (1,2,3,4,5) - To follow better with the rhythm of the song, make these objects start at 00:58:735 - just like you did on the next pattern similar to this, makes the clicking make more sense. and at 01:01:542 (5) - make the slider longer to end at a white tick.
I didn't do exactly as you said, but I did change 1 and rearrange this part a bit. 5 already ends on a white tick.

- 01:02:777 (6) - NC
- 01:03:451 (4) - Remove NC
Gonna leave these as they are. 6 is on a red tick and doesn't sound like the beginning of anything musically, and the change to 4 would only make sense if I changed 6.

- 01:15:127 (3) - Delete this circle and make 01:15:240 (4) - start where it was, it wouldnt look like a Normal if it had a double like that, Don't forget to remove that clap at the start.
Done. I changed the spacing up a little bit too.

Hard

- Copy paste map deserves copy paste mod :p, really the map has alot of copied patterns, and just flipped horizontally, the map feels uninspired by alot.
I think it's all tastefully used. When I make a mapset, I want the difficulties to feel like they're all actually the same map. The pattern copying goes well with the song. If it feels uninspired to you, though, so be it!

- This difficulty has slider velocity too high, even for a hard!
Nah. Fast sliders rule, and these aren't really that tough.

- 00:04:394 (1) - Make this Slider start at 00:04:169 so it doesnt start so weird and matches the rest of the sliders.
This sounds familiar... oh, right!

- 00:11:355 (5) - NC
Done.

- 00:12:590 (4) - Replace the slider for 2 circles
Nah.

- 00:16:744 (5) - NC
Done.

- 00:40:996 (3) - NC
Nah. As it is now, the (barely visible black) followpoints are the tiniest bit helpful.

- 00:50:876 (6) - NC, and make the slider end at a white tick to fit better to the song.
That's actually a flat-out mistake. Fixed.

- 00:52:448 (2) - Move this circle inbetween the 2 objects near it
Not sure what you mean now since I've moved it a bit after making the previous fix, but I now have it equidistant from both the tail of 6 and the head of 8.

- 00:58:847 (1,2,3,4,5) - To follow better with the rhythm of the song, make these objects start at 00:58:735 - just like you did on the next pattern similar to this, makes the clicking make more sense. and at 01:01:542 (5) - make the slider longer to end at a white tick.
Yep.

- 01:02:777 (6) - NC
- 01:03:451 (1) - Remove NC
Yep.

- 01:04:349 (1) - NC (even though i really hated this pattern)
Not sure why you suggest putting a new combo here but not on the tall white line four circles after it. I'll new combo both of them to make everything 1-2-3-4.

- 01:15:689 - I really dont see the point for the sliders being THAT fast, please reduce it a bit.
Keeping them like this. 8)

Insane

- Great, this is just Hard with CS5 and some minor streams and jumps, saves me quite some time in modding this.
- Too much repeated stuff, sorry but even if this map was from 2010 or around that it would be boring to play, still being a song this short.
Your skill level must be high enough that these all look the same to you. This is already a substantial jump in difficulty from Hard, and I've actually considered making it easier. It's far from boring to someone on my level.

- All the problems i have encountered are the same as in Hard difficulty, so either copy from the other box or just do another difficulty
Yep, and I've made roughly the same changes in response. Where possible, that is... it's more different from Hard than you realize.

One change I didn't make this time is the change to the combo colors at the point starting with 01:03:451 (1). They help a bit with reading the goofy pattern I've opted to keep.

AR3's TAG1

I like it as well as a nice original idea, but its still not something that would see the ''light'' of getting ranked. See what i did there? HAHAHHAhahha... kill me.
Add this diff to the description and take it out of the mapset. It would be useless do be there since most people would already by now ignore combo colors of your map, and remove the storyboard.
It's staying, and if it's the difference between getting this ranked and not getting this ranked, I'll keep the set unranked. Adding difficulties to the description is a good way to make them invisible to the people who download maps via osu!direct, and a concession to a system that doesn't need to be.

ignore's Bonus

- Imo, this would be better to replace your insane and just leave it as it is, even if it has alot of repetitive patterns, at least it doesnt look the same as your Hard and so it feels different.
Again, this represents a difference in our visions of what a mapset should be. I have a separate insane because I regard this one as an "extra" difficulty (not the "extra" difficulty tier, but "extra" in that it's an additional difficulty done in a very different style).

- 01:02:553 (5) - NC
- 01:03:675 (1) - Remove NC
Done.

- 01:05:247 - 01:05:696 - This space could be filled with like 3 circles or something to not be so silent.
Gonna leave this as it is... if it were a map in my style, I might go through with the change, but it seems to me like a conscious decision on ignorethis's part so I'm going to leave it.

eldnl wrote:

Modding this.

[General]

There are a lot of unsnapped inherited sections, it doesn't affect the game play so it's up to you if you want to change it.

[Normal]

00:23:037 (5) - This slider doesn't fit with the song, I suggest to do something like this: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1556513 - http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1556514
00:25:731 - You can do the same here or use variation of the pattern.
Someone suggested a while back that I make this same change, actually. While it does go with the music as it is now, I can see that it's a little awkward. I decided to ditch the repeats on these sliders and make them twice as long. I also changed the curved sliders to angled ones to make them stand out less.

00:33:590 (1,2) - Maybe you can change this pattern a bit, it's exactly the same as before, try doing a different slider.
Changed this up slightly. Also did some borderline-imperceptible tidying up of the curves.

00:58:740 - The slider must end at the red tick, it is off-timed, considering this the next slider should start at the white tick. http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1556520
I'm not sure what you're getting at with this one. It aligns just right with the part of the music it's mapped to.

[Hard]

00:31:794 - I think doing this will be more interesting here: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1556523 if you don't understand how to do it catch me in-game.
Excellent idea. Done!

00:58:852 - Same as normal difficulty.
Same as normal difficulty.

[Insane]

00:14:953 - Mayber you can do a better curve to this stream?
00:16:749 - Same as above.
Alright, I did some slider circles and slider-to-streamed them. That feature didn't even exist when I first mapped this!

00:31:120 - I suggest to add a note here, and here too 00:31:570 - follow the same pattern for the next part.
Done.

00:58:852 - Same as hard and normal difficulty.
Same as hard and normal difficulty.

[Bonus]

01:05:252 - This part feels so empty!
Alright, I've heard this one enough now. I went ahead and filled the space.

01:19:623 - Maybe you can add a note with a finish here.
Done. I also put whistles on the heads of 6 and 7. They sounded a little naked with just the finish.

[TAG1]

I have a problem with this difficulty, it is so annoying!
It's an odd one for sure. It has its fans, though! Otherwise I might not insist on keeping it in the mapset.

I'll try to get a BAT to check this. Good luck!

Soaprman wrote:

As for the fruits, I'll play around with it when I get home from work tonight. I don't know how playable it would be, though, since in standard mode I'm only hiding the approach circles, while always showing the circles. In CTB, there's no skin element that corresponds to the approach circle, so I'd have to make the objects themselves invisible. Still worth a try though!

Stefan wrote:

Soaprman wrote:

As for the fruits, I'll play around with it when I get home from work tonight. I don't know how playable it would be, though, since in standard mode I'm only hiding the approach circles, while always showing the circles. In CTB, there's no skin element that corresponds to the approach circle, so I'd have to make the objects themselves invisible. Still worth a try though!

that's the same case as with osuka, I think this difficulty is made for the Standard Mode and nothing else. However what would happen with Taiko/o!m then?

Soaprman wrote:

I never did get around to checking to see if a later osu! update fixed the map, though. Maybe I'll do that next time I open the game.