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xi - Halcyon -Long Version-

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Shiirn
Natsu, variation in patterning is fine. variation in new comboing is not.
Changing the angle or movement of a pattern that fits a musical pattern is fine, if not great. Completely changing the gameplay pattern and clicking points for the same musical pattern is not.

You are a Beatmap Nominator and thus should be held to a higher standard than your average joe mapper. If I saw these mistakes from an average mapper, I'd point this out to them privately and offer to help them if they require it in the future.

Like it or not, you're not an average mapper, you're a BN, and it's disturbing that being a BN allows you to make more polish errors and ignore more small issues than your average mapper.

That is what is really annoying people in the community. That BNs generally don't care about the little stuff in their own maps; only in the maps of the general mapper. So you should hold yourself to the same standard you demand of other maps. Mod your own map. See your own little inconsistencies. It's hard, but it's worth it to not be a hypocrite.




Quit with your "DQ-avoidance" bullshit shuffle. It's quite clear to see, and while everyone does it, it needs to be called out on to have the modding process move forward. I understand you don't care to make your map any clearer or more functional, and that you like the choices you've made, but things such as new combo consistency and rhythm consistency should be non-negotiable fixes. (So should completely freaking ugly sliders that look like a newbie's first wub slider that don't fit at all for pretty violin rolls, but if you like them making your map look like it has little pieces of poo stuck to it, more power to you.)


"Variation is fine" is a (bullshit) excuse I made on felys to bullshit away new combo and rhythm consistency errors.

It got DQ'd twice.

I kept going.

Sometimes you just gotta buckle down and actually get people to look at the map and look for the polish issues, because it clearly was not Xexxar, Gero, Monstrata, or alacat's focus to actually polish the map for ranking, but just icon your map for you. And if they won't hold you to a high standard, you should. If you do not, I will try to, no matter how much hate I may get for it. It's only fair.
Topic Starter
Natsu

Shiirn wrote:

.
Eh when I saw things that would improve my map I personally ask for a DQ, I did in this map already, you don't think the map is high quality, but a lot of people think this is a really good map. I'm not shiirn who map in a weird way, I do in my way and it works really nice, I don't think your second post would improve anything about my map, you should learn to know you are not always right, and don't say I didn't put effort on it lol,it has been pending 7 months I remapped it 2 times and even asked a DQ before lol, also go ask to hvick angelism dsan etc, I got test plays from like 20 top players, don't talk just for talking.

I'm really happy with my work here, if you don't like it is fine, map your own version, don't try to make my map yours, I'm Natsu not shiirn, what's is hight quality for you is not for me and viceversa, what you talk like that about gero, monstrata or alacat lol, they are really experience mappers and modders, what you are trying to do is like forcing me to map in your way and I don't want because I dislike yours maps.

Is fine to post your suggestions and all, but also understand when someone don't want to apply them, I already explain you the same things like two times and I don't agree with it, thanks for your time.
Saileach
define a lot of people, most people i talk to complain about it, the keysounding, the stream design etc...
Topic Starter
Natsu

- Rain - wrote:

define a lot of people, most people i talk to complain about it, the keysounding, the stream design etc...
players who i asked for test play, modders in this map (without one or two o.o), check the top players in favourite and number of favs while pending, the map ranting, disques thing, reddit lol.

There are people who complain/dislike anymap, but there is always a lot more people who enjoy then, btw streams shapes are really simple LOL
Shiirn
Again, you're strawmanning me by saying I'm trying to make you map the song my way.

I'm not. You can map this how you like.

I think your way is wrong and does a horrible job of representing the music, but that is irrelevant to the issues of rhythmic consistency and even new combo consistency and general polish.

This is not too much to expect from you, and like I said earlier, it isn't something I'd even mention publicly to a newer mapper. But you have no excuse for having these polish issues still lying around after hypothetically so many people have checked it.

All I'm seeing is a bunch of illogical excuses, not any actual attempts to explain why it's okay to have these types of issues and not fix them.

Until you satisfactorily explain that new combo inconsistency, mapping the same exact roll wildly different one time out of four, and blatantly misshapen and lazy slider and stream shapes, are all fine and shouldn't be fixed, you're just wasting everyone's time by making up irrelevant reasons and factoids that don't actually explain anything.

That's simply all there is to it.

I'm not trying to make you map my way. I'm trying to make you make your map fit the standards you yourself hold other maps to. I've seen you mod maps and I've seen you fix these polish issues in other maps. What's so god damn hard about doing it to your own?
Topic Starter
Natsu

Shiirn wrote:

.

I already explain you everything two times, 1 when this was dq and yesterday (even I send you a pm), the reason why I don't want to fix is because they are on purpose, is so hard to accept it? you want me to explain you again?, tbh even I explain you somethings like 6 months ago
Shiirn
So you're messing up on purpose? Got it. Glad we got that sorted out.
Topic Starter
Natsu

Shiirn wrote:

So you're messing up on purpose? Got it. Glad we got that sorted out.
you think so then fine, I think it works really nice and I like them, specially the triangle pattern, that can also work as 1-2 o.o
Mun
"my poor rhythmic choices and generally suboptimally executed patterns are totally intentional, for... some reason."

If someone like me, whose main problem lies in execution, can point out errors that you of all people have in executing a map properly, you've horribly messed up.

This shouldn't be ranked in the state it's in. You're a great mapper, but this is not nearly up to your standard. Being stubborn is fine, but being headstrong is not.
Topic Starter
Natsu

Mun wrote:

"my poor rhythmic choices and generally suboptimally executed patterns are totally intentional, for... some reason."

If someone whose main problem is execution can point out errors that you of all people have in executing a map properly, you've horribly messed up.

This shouldn't be ranked in the state it's in.
can you explain what rhythms are messed up?
Mun
Human
Rhythm:
Probably what stands out the most out of everything is 02:09:295 (2) - why use a long slider like this instead of just 2 1/6 repeated sliders?
03:53:524 (2) - Same thing here.
04:14:257 (7) - And here.
02:37:724 (1,2,3) - This entire combo is backwards. Why is 02:37:724 (1,2) - split into 2 2/4 sliders while there's no drum beat between them, while 02:38:352 (3) - is a 4/4 slider despite having a drum beat in the middle of it? This makes absolutely no sense.
02:49:033 (1,2,3) - This doesn't make sense either. The kick slider and triple aren't actually mapped to anything.
02:49:504 (4) - This, as well, is a 1/4 kick slider mapped to 2/4 beats that you could just as easily map using 2/4 sliders in its place.
03:02:070 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - These all ignore beats between them even though just extending them to have 1 more repeat would hardly affect gameplay.
04:47:556 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - These, too.
04:49:911 (1,2,3) - The problem, though, mysteriously disappears when the same sounds are fully mapped here. That last error was not intentional, it was an oversight and should be treated as such.
04:54:781 (1) - This is mapped to nothing.

Demigod
02:25:002 (4) - This ignores a beat.
03:42:529 (3) - This slider starts on nothing, ignores a beat, and ends on nothing.
04:34:519 (3,4,5,6,1) - What on earth is this supposed to be mapped to? There is absolutely nothing in the music here that justifies a stream.
04:43:314 (1) - Again, this is mapped to nothing.

Keysounding
04:38:603 (2) - wow. Nobody caught this? In two qualifications? Did anybody actually listen to this diff?

Deity
01:27:358 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - This stream starts at 01:27:986 (9) - with a few choice bits of percussion before that. The majority of this is mapped to nothing.
01:28:457 (3) - Isn't this 1/8 repeat and not 1/4 kick?
01:37:881 (3) - This slider ignores a beat.
02:29:870 (3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - You missed some 1/8 beats here.
02:36:468 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - The entire first half of this stream shouldn't even exist.
04:08:131 (3,4) - Missed more 1/8.
04:34:519 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Again, the majority of this stream doesn't even exist in the music.
04:54:623 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Out of these 6 notes, about 1 is justified by the music.

Intentional undermap and intentional overmap both have their places.
Those places are nowhere near this song. The keysounding on this sounds like it was made entirely to be obnoxious enough to obscure the errors in this map. You know better than this, Natsu, and you can make a challenging and streamy Halcyon map without actually overmapping the hell out of this.

I've only looked at the rhythm, ignoring completely the reasons why the hitsounding is conceptually flawed, and the ugly streams.
Speaking of ugly streams, why are these intentional? Do you have a legitimate reason for them being so bad looking, or are they just "intentional" so you can stall for long enough to get this through qualification phase?
Topic Starter
Natsu

Mun wrote:

Human
Rhythm:
Probably what stands out the most out of everything is 02:09:295 (2) - why use a long slider like this instead of just 2 1/6 repeated sliders? the wub slider represents the sounds, is too make the rhythm simple from the other diffs
03:53:524 (2) - Same thing here. ^
04:14:257 (7) - And here.^
02:37:724 (1,2,3) - This entire combo is backwards. Why is 02:37:724 (1,2) - split into 2 2/4 sliders while there's no drum beat between them, while 02:38:352 (3) - is a 4/4 slider despite having a drum beat in the middle of it? This makes absolutely no sense. listen to the violin, it makes sense if you notice the main rhtyhms in the song, I'm focus on piano and violin mostly, not drums (rarely) [/b
02:49:033 (1,2,3) - This doesn't make sense either. The kick slider and triple aren't actually mapped to anything. [b]delete the objects and listen to the song

02:49:504 (4) - This, as well, is a 1/4 kick slider mapped to 2/4 beats that you could just as easily map using 2/4 sliders in its place. again I'm making simple rhythms, because this is not supposed to be that dense as the other diffs
03:02:070 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - These all ignore beats between them even though just extending them to have 1 more repeat would hardly affect gameplay. man listen to the main
04:47:556 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - These, too.
04:49:911 (1,2,3) - The problem, though, mysteriously disappears when the same sounds are fully mapped here. That last error was not intentional, it was an oversight and should be treated as such. is different to the other part.
04:54:781 (1) - This is mapped to nothing. delete and listen again sounds are there, are you using headphones?

Demigod
02:25:002 (4) - This ignores a beat. again you don't need to map everything or I'd end mapping a full stream , learn to make simple rhythms, u don't need to map all
03:42:529 (3) - This slider starts on nothing, ignores a beat, and ends on nothing. I'm wonder if u are hearing with a proper volume, there is a sound there
04:34:519 (3,4,5,6,1) - What on earth is this supposed to be mapped to? There is absolutely nothing in the music here that justifies a stream. again man u really have problems with your sound device or something, delete the objects and listen
04:43:314 (1) - Again, this is mapped to nothing. again ^

Keysounding
04:38:603 (2) - wow. Nobody caught this? In two qualifications? Did anybody actually listen to this diff? uh?

Deity
01:27:358 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - This stream starts at 01:27:986 (9) - with a few choice bits of percussion before that. The majority of this is mapped to nothing. there are clearly beats in the music
01:28:457 (3) - Isn't this 1/8 repeat and not 1/4 kick? is 1/4
01:37:881 (3) - This slider ignores a beat. it follows a strong sound and ignore a tiny background beat, again u don't need to map all
02:29:870 (3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - You missed some 1/8 beats here. I'm mapping the pianos in 1/4
02:36:468 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - The entire first half of this stream shouldn't even exist. why ? there are clear beats in the song
04:08:131 (3,4) - Missed more 1/8. that would be an overkill
04:34:519 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Again, the majority of this stream doesn't even exist in the music. please listen careful
04:54:623 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Out of these 6 notes, about 1 is justified by the music.

Intentional undermap and intentional overmap both have their places.
Those places are nowhere near this song. The keysounding on this sounds like it was made entirely to be obnoxious enough to obscure the errors in this map. You know better than this, Natsu, and you can make a challenging and streamy Halcyon map without actually overmapping the hell out of this.

I've only looked at the rhythm, ignoring completely the reasons why the hitsounding is conceptually flawed, and the ugly streams.
Speaking of ugly streams, why are these intentional? Do you have a legitimate reason for them being so bad looking, or are they just "intentional" so you can stall for long enough to get this through qualification phase?

streams are simple and are cool IMO and there are not ugly ones, you can point any?,
ignoring some beats is fine as long you map the main ones lol, you don't need to map everything
there is nothing overmapped, please listen careful, up volume or change sound device
I care about feedback, but there is nothing legit in your mod, lower diffs have less dense rhythm ofc that's common sense for make them easier. You can request a DQ, but I doubt it will be, since the overmap you posted is no overmapped and the ignored beats are for making rhythms simple in lower diffs or not important to be mapped.

Pentori
y are xexxar and gero allowed to renominate this when clearly there are still outstanding issues that haven't been agreed upon
Topic Starter
Natsu

Pentori wrote:

y are xexxar and gero allowed to renominate this when clearly there are still outstanding issues that haven't been agreed upon
because I sent a pm to koryts and he say was fine, I sent a pm to shiirn and he just ignored it for like 11 days and shiro told me was fine to don't apply everything, i can post the screenshoots if u want
Mun

Natsu wrote:

streams are simple and are cool IMO and there are not ugly ones, you can point any?,
ignoring some beats is fine as long you map the main ones lol, you don't need to map everything
there is nothing overmapped, please listen careful, up volume or change sound device
I care about feedback, but there is nothing legit in your mod, lower diffs have less dense rhythm ofc that's common sense for make them easier. You can request a DQ, but I doubt it will be, since the overmap you posted is no overmapped and the ignored beats are for making rhythms simple in lower diffs or not important to be mapped.

All of my mod was done with hitsounds at 0%, music at 100%, and osu! volume at 100%. I did not mishear anything. It's massively overmapped at some points and undermapped at others, and even if not every sound needs to be represented, this still makes it a poor representation of the song, and isn't that what beatmapping is about?
Topic Starter
Natsu

Mun wrote:

All of my mod was done with hitsounds at 0%, music at 100%, and osu! volume at 100%. I did not mishear anything.
I already explain you and you already requested a DQ, a QAT will review your post and my reply and he will decide what to do. just wait for it. Undermapping is not a problem and there are not overmaped things as I explain you, drums aren't the only things you have to map
Monstrata
There's a very consistent 1/4 track in the background. Honestly, it's hard to overmap a song like this. Maybe the 1/4's are just so redundant you stopped hearing them, like how yous top hearing a fan in a restaurant until suddenly it gets turned off and then you realize it's been there all along xD.
Izzywing

Monstrata wrote:

There's a very consistent 1/4 track in the background. Honestly, it's hard to overmap a song like this. Maybe the 1/4's are just so redundant you stopped hearing them, like how yous top hearing a fan in a restaurant until suddenly it gets turned off and then you realize it's been there all along xD.
lawyer monstrata when :o
Shiirn

Monstrata wrote:

There's a very consistent 1/4 track in the background. Honestly, it's hard to overmap a song like this. Maybe the 1/4's are just so redundant you stopped hearing them, like how yous top hearing a fan in a restaurant until suddenly it gets turned off and then you realize it's been there all along xD.

So you're saying that they're pretty much inaudible and are mentally ignored?



Then they shouldn't be mapped. But that's just my opinion. The map has more actual issues than just rhythm choice. Issues you didn't notice, apparently.
Topic Starter
Natsu

Shiirn wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

There's a very consistent 1/4 track in the background. Honestly, it's hard to overmap a song like this. Maybe the 1/4's are just so redundant you stopped hearing them, like how yous top hearing a fan in a restaurant until suddenly it gets turned off and then you realize it's been there all along xD.

So you're saying that they're pretty much inaudible and are mentally ignored?



Then they shouldn't be mapped. But that's just my opinion. The map has more actual issues than just rhythm choice. Issues you didn't notice, apparently.
yeah shiirn I already reply to you and is already posted in that request a dq thing, lets see if QATs agree with me or with you, i explained you 6 months ago, when this was DQ and yesterday, I'm tired of explaining you, so lets just wait what QATs think about this.
Shiirn
Like i said, I'm not arguing for a DQ based on your poor rhythm choices.



But on your inconsistent new comboing and general aesthetic failures and general lack of polish and quality.
Topic Starter
Natsu

Shiirn wrote:

Like i said, I'm not arguing for a DQ based on your poor rhythm choices.



But on your inconsistent new comboing and general aesthetic failures and general lack of polish and quality.
yes and I explained you 3 times, I don't try to avoid a dq, since I explained you when I was mapping it (and you asked me to show u), when I requested the DQ and now, I just prefer my way, anyways is posted there already, just wait and lets see what the QAT think about your points and my replys.

BTW I love that slider and I will not change it, the stream in both kiais, the ones mapped at the background are fine and new comboing depends on the pattern there are different ways to add them, from basic following stanzas, patterns, music etc. That's why we don't have a mapping prog.

anyways just lets wait I'm really tired of reply here, just lets see what QAT decides.
Mun

Monstrata wrote:

There's a very consistent 1/4 track in the background. Honestly, it's hard to overmap a song like this. Maybe the 1/4's are just so redundant you stopped hearing them, like how yous top hearing a fan in a restaurant until suddenly it gets turned off and then you realize it's been there all along xD.
As Shiirn has already said, if I'm totally ignoring a sound (that I cannot hear after listening to the song on volumes much higher than I normally would listen to them on), then that is a sound that is not prevalent in the song. If it is not prevalent in the song, then Natsu is contradicting himself. He told me in this PM conversation to "map main beats instead of everything."

Of course, this means he has messed up his emphasis to an extreme degree, and also has a horribly inconsistent map on his hands (oh no!), because he has decided to ignore perfectly audible, quite important sounds while mapping sounds that are unobtrusive and generally hard to perceive behind the, you know, actual song.

I hold that the rhythm and emphasis on this map have multiple mistakes, the hitsounding has at least one very noticeable mistake (that alone should be enough to merit DQ), and the entire map lacks polish.
Topic Starter
Natsu
1. I can map any beat I want that are my rhythm choices, check monstratas shelter and pishifat´s one to see how mappers think different.

2. Those streams are not overmapped as I explained you multiplet times

3. Ignore beats is totally fine man pls, is common sense for mapping lower diffs or emphasis certain things,

4. I'm not contradicting myself, I only explained you that you don't need to map everything.

5. You alreadyn posted in DQ thing, a QAT will check and decide stop comming to post the same over and over man is tired, if you have new things to add then fine.
anna apple
02:09:295 (1,2) - these are snapped wrong, there are probably others too, also might as well fix angle usage as you choose to have it compliment the song some times and not others.
(demigod)
Topic Starter
Natsu

bor wrote:

02:09:295 (1,2) - these are snapped wrong, there are probably others too, also might as well fix angle usage as you choose to have it compliment the song some times and not others.

yeah is like 1/12 or something like that, but in this cases is fine to make a simple rhythm for playability (a lot of maps do this)
anna apple

Natsu wrote:

bor wrote:

02:09:295 (1,2) - these are snapped wrong, there are probably others too, also might as well fix angle usage as you choose to have it compliment the song some times and not others.

yeah is like 1/12 or something like that, but in this cases is fine to make a simple rhythm for playability (a lot of maps do this)

There is no point in incorrectly rhythming when its not like changing them to 1/12 will make a change in playabilty since you choose to create a pause between the repeat sliders anyway because the players have time to recover in between, not to mention slider leniency still affects this break.
Topic Starter
Natsu

bor wrote:

There is no point in incorrectly rhythming when its not like changing them to 1/12 will make a change in playabilty since you choose to create a pause between the repeat sliders anyway because the players have time to recover in between, not to mention slider leniency still affects this break.
if i map it with 1/12 there would not be pauses and will hurt the playability alot, I tryed it in my first remap and almost anyone break there, anyways a QAT will read this and will also decide what to do, even tho I think the 1/8 is better, since is better for the gameplay and don't hurt rhythm that much is a common practice since years, you can found a lot of maps with 1/6s guitar mapped as 1/4s, is a similar case here.
anna apple

Natsu wrote:

if i map it with 1/12 there would not be pauses and will hurt the playability alot, I tryed it in my first remap and almost anyone break there, anyways a QAT will read this and will also decide what to do, even tho I think the 1/8 is better, since is better for the gameplay and don't hurt rhythm that much is a common practice since years, you can found a lot of maps with 1/6s guitar mapped as 1/4s, is a similar case here.

Understood, but the reason for most of those to occur is an underlying sound that is rhythmed to 1/4 beats, in this case if you chose that then the idea of "keysounding" states otherwise.

also I have no care for convincing a QAT, I would much rather convince YOU so you can make better decisions.


but it sounds like you have no care for improving, which is unfortunate and a bad example for the mapping commuinty.
Topic Starter
Natsu

bor wrote:

Natsu wrote:

if i map it with 1/12 there would not be pauses and will hurt the playability alot, I tryed it in my first remap and almost anyone break there, anyways a QAT will read this and will also decide what to do, even tho I think the 1/8 is better, since is better for the gameplay and don't hurt rhythm that much is a common practice since years, you can found a lot of maps with 1/6s guitar mapped as 1/4s, is a similar case here.

Understood, but the reason for most of those to occur is an underlying sound that is rhythmed to 1/4 beats, in this case if you chose that then the idea of "keysounding" states otherwise.

also I have no care for convincing a QAT, I would much rather convince YOU so you can make better decisions.


but it sounds like you have no care for improving, which is unfortunate and a bad example for the mapping commuinty.
so hurting the gameplay is improving it? wow!

No I requested a DQ myself before when I saw things to improve, now most of the post have things that I really dont' want to apply (overmodding always ruin maps take https://osu.ppy.sh/b/724015&m=0 this as example, before was even better) , since it will not feel like my map anymore if I change those.
anna apple

Natsu wrote:

so hurting the gameplay is improving it? wow!

No I requested a DQ myself before when I saw things to improve, now most of the post have things that I really dont' want to apply (overmodding always ruin maps take https://osu.ppy.sh/b/724015&m=0 this as example, before was even better) , since it will not feel like my map anymore if I change those.
Its not possible to harm gameplay by removing hitsounds that doesn't follow the rhythm your hitsounding to. And if I failed to mention before, you can still have a break between the sliders without harming gameplay.

Also you can't achieve "overmodding" unless you apply mods as they are, the point of a mod is to express issues in a map, that doesn't mean the modder says you have to move certain objects to specific places if it makes it inconsistent with the idea you have going on. But in the same regard when you are trying to avoid inconsistencies, you should listen to those pointing them out.

For example when I look at your highest diff in this map you introduce movement like 00:01:453 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - , the notes are fast but the motion is still smooth and there are no unwarranted spacing increases. 00:12:242 (1,2,3) - this on the other hand is very sharp although you in the same section of music without any drastic changes in SOUND to warrant this kind of sharp movement. the music progresses and you see 00:25:934 (1,2,3,4) - which is where you express something moving very smoothly, sure pitch is increasing but it hits its highest point and you create an increase of momentum without changing the type of movement 00:29:429 (1,2,3) - this is arguably smooth, but then you introduce sharp movement again here. 00:36:004 (2,3,4,5) -
in this case you are inconsistent in how smooth or sharp you make the movement when there is no sound to warrant this.

As for the others' comments on your rhythm I have not much to say since you are "consistent" about choosing to "undermap" some parts. Although it is worth mentioning that your kiais are weaker than other parts of the song due to this, which does create a problem imo

sure people complain about drastic difficulty spikes in kiais of the song, but this is just the opposite of that, drastic troughs in difficult at the kiai when the music becomes more involved
Topic Starter
Natsu

bor wrote:

Natsu wrote:

so hurting the gameplay is improving it? wow!

No I requested a DQ myself before when I saw things to improve, now most of the post have things that I really dont' want to apply (overmodding always ruin maps take https://osu.ppy.sh/b/724015&m=0 this as example, before was even better) , since it will not feel like my map anymore if I change those.
Its not possible to harm gameplay by removing hitsounds that doesn't follow the rhythm your hitsounding to. And if I failed to mention before, you can still have a break between the sliders without harming gameplay.

Also you can't achieve "overmodding" unless you apply mods as they are, the point of a mod is to express issues in a map, that doesn't mean the modder says you have to move certain objects to specific places if it makes it inconsistent with the idea you have going on. But in the same regard when you are trying to avoid inconsistencies, you should listen to those pointing them out.

For example when I look at your highest diff in this map you introduce movement like 00:01:453 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - , the notes are fast but the motion is still smooth and there are no unwarranted spacing increases. 00:12:242 (1,2,3) - this on the other hand is very sharp although you in the same section of music without any drastic changes in SOUND to warrant this kind of sharp movement. the music progresses and you see 00:25:934 (1,2,3,4) - which is where you express something moving very smoothly, sure pitch is increasing but it hits its highest point and you create an increase of momentum without changing the type of movement 00:29:429 (1,2,3) - this is arguably smooth, but then you introduce sharp movement again here. 00:36:004 (2,3,4,5) -
in this case you are inconsistent in how smooth or sharp you make the movement when there is no sound to warrant this.

As for the others' comments on your rhythm I have not much to say since you are "consistent" about choosing to "undermap" some parts. Although it is worth mentioning that your kiais are weaker than other parts of the song due to this, which does create a problem imo

sure people complain about drastic difficulty spikes in kiais of the song, but this is just the opposite of that, drastic troughs in difficult at the kiai when the music becomes more involved
hitsounds aren't mean to be 1/1 with the music, but to decorate it, most of maps do this, ofc if add a random clap for decorating the song every 2 and 4 no one will complain, then again I love the current ones, why kill something that the mapper and some people love.

Drastic difficulty spikes? the map is consistent, the stream space the jumps etc, yes there are some hard parts, but is still at same level of difficulty, then again no one complain about tv sizes having a random full screenjumps at the end of the map.

00:12:242 (1,2,3) this is a really simple pattern man, is just for add variation at the slow part of the map.

00:36:004 (2,3,4,5) same ^


Kiai have undermap beats yes, but 01:09:923 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I think anymapper would map to the strong beats instead of everytiny sound in parts like that, since those are the soul of the chorus.

what I mean of overmodding is to change things that are fine, but other that also are fines, I made the mistakes of change things in my past maps just for the sake of ranking them and i feeld bad about those now tbh, Modding should be fore improving understanding what the mapper is trying to do, not to change things that are fine, take for example shiirn I explained him my points 6 months ago, then I remapped 2 times and I keeped the things I love about my map, then I explained him like 3-5 times again.

We should respect mapper choice tbh, your points are valid, but also try to understand I'm not you and you would express the music different than me, take this as example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/527661 https://osu.ppy.sh/s/522857 , one maps almost everything while the other don't, they both get love, people tried to make monstrata's map in a way that he don't want, but thanks god he keep it in the way he want, what people are trying to do here is basically the same, make me change things that I really don't want to change. Check the previous DQ post or mods, I take a lot from them, because I think they improve my map, ofc I deny things that I don't think would improve it. There is a point were mods makes more bad than good and in my experience that's starting to happen here.
Kibbleru
02:19:661 (1,2,3) - this is fine, but since its such a special rhythm part isnt is kinda bad to be inconsistent with it? 04:03:890 (1,2,3,4) -

also guys stop trying to force ur opinion on natsu, he gave his fair reasoning, just wait for the QATs to judge it.
also stop saying his rhythm is 'incorrect' since there is no objectivity in that, his opinion is his hence he expressed it his map, ur opinion is urs.
anna apple

Natsu wrote:

hitsounds aren't mean to be 1/1 with the music, but to decorate it, most of maps do this, ofc if add a random clap for decorating the song every 2 and 4 no one will complain, then again I love the current ones, why kill something that the mapper and some people love.

Drastic difficulty spikes? the map is consistent, the stream space the jumps etc, yes there are some hard parts, but is still at same level of difficulty, then again no one complain about tv sizes having a random full screenjumps at the end of the map.

00:12:242 (1,2,3) this is a really simple pattern man, is just for add variation at the slow part of the map.

00:36:004 (2,3,4,5) same ^


Kiai have undermap beats yes, but 01:09:923 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I think anymapper would map to the strong beats instead of everytiny sound in parts like that, since those are the soul of the chorus.

what I mean of overmodding is to change things that are fine, but other that also are fines, I made the mistakes of change things in my past maps just for the sake of ranking them and i feeld bad about those now tbh, Modding should be fore improving understanding what the mapper is trying to do, not to change things that are fine, take for example shiirn I explained him my points 6 months ago, then I remapped 2 times and I keeped the things I love about my map, then I explained him like 3-5 times again.

We should respect mapper choice tbh, your points are valid, but also try to understand I'm not you and you would express the music different than me, take this as example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/527661 https://osu.ppy.sh/s/522857 , one maps almost everything while the other don't, they both get love, people tried to make monstrata's map in a way that he don't want, but thanks god he keep it in the way he want, what people are trying to do here is basically the same, make me change things that I really don't want to change. Check the previous DQ post or mods, I take a lot from them, because I think they improve my map, ofc I deny things that I don't think would improve it. There is a point were mods makes more bad than good and in my experience that's starting to happen here.

I think you misread what I said, YOUR map has difficulty TROUGHS, while other ranked maps have SPIKES, which I did say people complained about.

I also believe you have a false sense of how object placement affects difficulty, something linear and evenly and lowly spaced is much easier to play than something with the same or higher spacing and sharp angles. The closer a map can be to expressing a song in a consistent manner the better. Its inappropriate to not consider factors that change the map itself difficulty.

I also must say the objective of keysounding is accuracy, and I already pointed out the inaccuracy of how you created it.

It's also worth mentioning its possible to map strong beats while complimenting other occurring sounds.
Topic Starter
Natsu

bor wrote:

Natsu wrote:

hitsounds aren't mean to be 1/1 with the music, but to decorate it, most of maps do this, ofc if add a random clap for decorating the song every 2 and 4 no one will complain, then again I love the current ones, why kill something that the mapper and some people love.

Drastic difficulty spikes? the map is consistent, the stream space the jumps etc, yes there are some hard parts, but is still at same level of difficulty, then again no one complain about tv sizes having a random full screenjumps at the end of the map.

00:12:242 (1,2,3) this is a really simple pattern man, is just for add variation at the slow part of the map.

00:36:004 (2,3,4,5) same ^


Kiai have undermap beats yes, but 01:09:923 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I think anymapper would map to the strong beats instead of everytiny sound in parts like that, since those are the soul of the chorus.

what I mean of overmodding is to change things that are fine, but other that also are fines, I made the mistakes of change things in my past maps just for the sake of ranking them and i feeld bad about those now tbh, Modding should be fore improving understanding what the mapper is trying to do, not to change things that are fine, take for example shiirn I explained him my points 6 months ago, then I remapped 2 times and I keeped the things I love about my map, then I explained him like 3-5 times again.

We should respect mapper choice tbh, your points are valid, but also try to understand I'm not you and you would express the music different than me, take this as example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/527661 https://osu.ppy.sh/s/522857 , one maps almost everything while the other don't, they both get love, people tried to make monstrata's map in a way that he don't want, but thanks god he keep it in the way he want, what people are trying to do here is basically the same, make me change things that I really don't want to change. Check the previous DQ post or mods, I take a lot from them, because I think they improve my map, ofc I deny things that I don't think would improve it. There is a point were mods makes more bad than good and in my experience that's starting to happen here.

I think you misread what I said, YOUR map has difficulty TROUGHS, while other ranked maps have SPIKES, which I did say people complained about.

I also believe you have a false sense of how object placement affects difficulty, something linear and evenly and lowly spaced is much easier to play than something with the same or higher spacing and sharp angles. The closer a map can be to expressing a song in a consistent manner the better. Its inappropriate to not consider factors that change the map itself difficulty.

I also must say the objective of keysounding is accuracy, and I already pointed out the inaccuracy of how you created it.

It's also worth mentioning its possible to map strong beats while complimenting other occurring sounds.
yes what I meant is mapping the 1/12 would be super hard to play you really don't have idea how bad it was (that's why the hitsounds are only decorating that part and not doing a 1/1), that's why I decide to map it with 1/8s, this is my way of expressing the song after 8 months of work 2 remaps 1 dq and multiple mods and test plays. People are trying to DQ this so badly for any reason, there are no correct rhythms that is up to the mapper and their interpretation of the song, yes those pattern are different placed and no linear, linear things are harder to play than zigzag movements and is just the slow part of the song.

I gave my reasons to everything I don't want to change, just wait for a QAT and their decision.

For the people who say I don't want to improve this map, I remapped it 2 times, ask to Okorin I personally requested a DQ from him to improve this map, I asked multiple people for mods and test plays,



I can post tons of screenshoots from players who tested it, so don't say I didn't want to improve it, right now i just want to keep the integrity of my map and the patterns i love, for example see how a post wanted me to change a slider because is ugly, but I think is awesome, subjective things like that shouldn't be taken as issues. Just to add the music provide beats and is up to us the mappers to map them as we feel, if x mapper would map an easy diff only that's fine, if I want to map all the constant 1/4s is also fine.

to end this is fun how a modder want me to undermap the streams in the kiais while the other want me to map everything, see how subjective are the rhythm choices.
anna apple
there is no point in me continuing this "discussion" when it seems like you misinterpret what concerns.
Mun

Kibbleru wrote:

stop trying to force ur opinion on natsu, he gave his fair reasoning, just wait for the QATs to judge it.
also stop saying his rhythm is 'incorrect' since there is no objectivity in that, his opinion is his hence he expressed it his map, ur opinion is urs.
There are many correct rhythms for any given song which are defined upon the creation of the song.
There are many incorrect rhythms for any given song which are created by misinterpretations, mistakes, and ignorance.

It's not all a gray area, and a lot of small parts of this set fall into the "incorrect" side.
Kite
cool map
Kibbleru

Mun wrote:

Kibbleru wrote:

stop trying to force ur opinion on natsu, he gave his fair reasoning, just wait for the QATs to judge it.
also stop saying his rhythm is 'incorrect' since there is no objectivity in that, his opinion is his hence he expressed it his map, ur opinion is urs.
There are many correct rhythms for any given song which are defined upon the creation of the song.
There are many incorrect rhythms for any given song which are created by misinterpretations, mistakes, and ignorance.

It's not all a gray area, and a lot of small parts of this set fall into the "incorrect" side.
because ur not openminded :)
Topic Starter
Natsu

Mun wrote:

Kibbleru wrote:

stop trying to force ur opinion on natsu, he gave his fair reasoning, just wait for the QATs to judge it.
also stop saying his rhythm is 'incorrect' since there is no objectivity in that, his opinion is his hence he expressed it his map, ur opinion is urs.
There are many correct rhythms for any given song which are defined upon the creation of the song.
There are many incorrect rhythms for any given song which are created by misinterpretations, mistakes, and ignorance.

It's not all a gray area, and a lot of small parts of this set fall into the "incorrect" side.
because you are not open to other ideas, I put my interpretation here as I did in any of my maps, you are free to like it or dislike it that's fine, but also learn that no everyone do things as u like
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