Give a support for this! I'd agree that currently is almost impossible to play HDHR without memorizing it.

i dont play taiko
but i support anyway.

Hope this request will be applied to make taiko have more mode combinations

I have no star and I'm bad at both HD and HR in taiko, but I support it

make this happen
make HRHD great again.

I think that should be a great idea
Most of the time if you can pass a map with HDHR, than you can propably to HDHRFL.

Supporting too.

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If this were to be implemented, it would be a horrible mistake.
For the 1.12x score multiplier, it would be too easy.
HD would get such an edge over HR players.
Both in terms of PP, and on map by map score basis.
There are people who can sightread HDHR as of this moment, it isn't impossible. It accurately represents the score multiplier it holds.
The fact that HDHR would be this easy and be equal to the score of DT if not higher due to spinners.

All I'm trying to say is HD,HR is a niche that nobody plays and deserves its .12x increase and should stay the same.

Garpo wrote:

If this were to be implemented, it would be a horrible mistake.
For the 1.12x score multiplier, it would be too easy.
HD would get such an edge over HR players.
Both in terms of PP, and on map by map score basis.
There are people who can sightread HDHR as of this moment, it isn't impossible. It accurately represents the score multiplier it holds.
The fact that HDHR would be this easy and be equal to the score of DT if not higher due to spinners.

All I'm trying to say is HD,HR is a niche that nobody plays and deserves its .12x increase and should stay the same.

Just gonna address some of this

1.10* multiplier would be suitable if possible. DT shouldn't be the only way to go. On top of that DT directly changes the difficulty of the song so would give more than HDHR by a fair amount regardless. This also makes up for the spinner bonus from HR in 99.9% of cases.

HD wouldn't get any advantage over HR as HDHR has the same accuracy requirements and SV increase as plain HR does. To do HDHR you would need to be good at both HD and HR's difficulty points (reading for HD and accuracy + SV for HR). The individual mods aren't affected (and HR stands out individually over HD currently, so it could be argued that HR has an advantage over HD)

As for these people who can sightread HDHR, please introduce them to me so I can throw maps at them and watch. I've yet to see anyone who can play more difficult / complex pattern maps consistently and I'd really like to see it if they exist. (Not joking)

I feel like HDHR shouldn't be a niche that nobody plays. There's a lot of potential behind the mod combination in that it really challenges both reading and accuracy more than just HR or HD could do alone. This one change would make it something people could realistically get consistent at which would honestly be a breath of fresh air for the leaderboards.

Conor wrote:

horrible outcome

Having new options doesn't make old scores suddenly bad, it just means you can improve them further.

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Man this turned into a wall of text before I realized it.

Conor wrote:

Tasha wrote:

Having new options doesn't make old scores suddenly bad, it just means you can improve them further.

i have over 12,000 scores (approximately 7,200 of those are HR only) if you think i'm going back to improve all of those you're insane

You are not forced to go back and improve all of those scores. This would really only have an impact on maps that aren't extremely difficult to read with DTHR (low difficulty or low scroll speed maps could be done with DTHRHD) and on maps outside of your DT / DTHD playing range (so any maps you have to use HR or HD on alone). If you have 7200 HR only scores then you haven't maxed out a lot of your scores anyways as there isn't that large of a pool from the ranked maps where you cannot DT them (excluding converted maps here).

Conor wrote:

basically if HDHR became possible it wouldn't make my life any harder i'd just feel heavily inconvenienced that my full score SS's aren't the best full score SS's they could be and i'm sure the people with more scores than me and even some people with less than me on this mode would feel the same way and none of us would ever play every map again so don't think we'd go back and improve them (okay maybe kevin would)

heck it doesn't even have to be an SS it could be anything to my name but there's literally thousands so please don't think i'm putting in another 1,300 hours of play time just to repeat everything

Again, it only gives you the -option- to go and improve them. And I certainly disagree that it wouldn't make your life scoring any harder, higher scroll speed and higher accuracy requirement from HR added onto HD is a lot harder no matter how you cut it.

Conor wrote:

if you want to go out of your way to make something possible at the expense of some players feeling shitty for everything they've ever done you can go right ahead i mean what's really important at the end of it all

This obviously isn't the intent. What's really important at the end of it all to me is enjoyment of the game, just like I'm guessing it is for you. On the same token, I don't want to see the leaderboards stagnate because we don't have so few options for maps that aren't DTable (unless you're on a completely different level like _yu68 / other extremely talented players in the top 10-20 range)

Conor wrote:

you've also just told garpo that HR would have an advantage over HD so what happened with your opinion 12 days ago?

This wouldn't be a buff to HR by itself as you'd need to be good at HD as well to get the extra score. I don't see how I'm changing my opinion at all here? I still feel HR is too good as it is (as an individual mod) so shouldn't get buffed.

Conor wrote:

don't even get me started on giving DS players more excuses this whole situation honestly doesn't seem worth it for the inconvenience behind it

The whole point is to make it something that isn't only accomplished by people DSing (or really dedicated players). If you want to argue DSers as a point then you realize that HR and HD as individual mods can be DS'd in the same way right? If it's something that a regular player can learn and play then if anything it'd hinder DSers as non-DSers could start accomplishing those scores too (albeit with a lot more effort obviously).

Conor wrote:

i can put my scores/feelings aside for one second and say the combination shouldn't be strictly impossible i can agree with that but unfortunately due to how the mode can be abused putting it into the realm of possibility would cause mayhem as it stands in the current timeline

Kinda explained my thoughts on this above for both scores and abuse. I'm glad you can at least agree that the combination shouldn't be impossible though.

Conor wrote:

like why do these #1's still exist https://osu.ppy.sh/s/136969 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/97949?m=1 (two out of thousands)

oh that's right this mode has shitty to none moderation and we should fix that first before messing around with combinations that cheaters have already been using for years and getting away with (looking at you rokodo and every DS player that followed after him)

I agree that scores like those that are very unlikely to be legit (given user's playcount / song playcount) aren't really dealt with very fast even with reports. I don't know how to resolve this as it's kinda beyond our control but as mentioned before this could apply to any mods. If anything the proposed changes put more power in the hands of legit players.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. This topic may end up sitting for a little while most likely as gameplay changes aren't too likely to happen when lazer's being worked on anyways.

I keep my self this time short by just agreeing with this addition.
Current HD+HR is already very rough up to impossible when trying to play. Having something else beside DT would be nice.

OnosakiHito wrote:

Having something else beside DT would be nice.

This is a rare time I'll support Ono on something

I want HD HR pp >L_<

I completely agree with this request. It honestly has made no sense to me why HR reduces the visible are of HD as that's not part of the HR mod. Mods are meant to have their own independent affects and if you add them together you deal with the affects of both. Current Taiko HDHR Doesn't make sense as it doesn't follow this.

I've never seen anyone HDHR FC any inner oni diff without memorizing it first

Not even _yu68 as the current #1, not even any #1 before him, I even struggle to get an A on muzu diff with HDHR

Things will come out like HDHR in CTB and osu! Standard, some maps with HDHR compared to single HD/HR only gives a small advantages with less than <20% of the original standalone HD/HR pp itself, it's still far from DT's <40% increase over standalone HD/HR

HDHR won't going to throw off _yu68 or any DT/NC from their seat, widescreen has already given advantage to standard's crazy SV converted maps, it lets people FC Freedom Dive's Four Dimension or Scarlet Rose, but people will put HD to throw off that advantage anyway

It's going to do the same as HDHR, as DT will always give you more pp over HDHR, people will always prefer DT over HDHR if they're going to farm maps

MAKE HDHR GREAT AGAIN

Lightning Wyvern, the very best players will obviously prefer DT over HD+HR, but players that can't play good enough for DT will prefer HD+HR...

very good

I strongly support this! There's no reason for HDHR to be on the same level of difficulty as FL, and it's been like this for many years now. It's an obvious issue which needs fixing!

its good to be true if this settings was applied