I think droplets are able to account for more of your score than you guys think, why not try to do some testing on maps with only a few droplets, and then comparing to very slider heavy maps with really high droplet amounts. I might actually do some testing with it myself later today.
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osu!catch World Cup 2016 - Discussion Thread
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Zak wrote:
I think droplets are able to account for more of your score than you guys think, why not try to do some testing on maps with only a few droplets, and then comparing to very slider heavy maps with really high droplet amounts. I might actually do some testing with it myself later today.
I don't have the multi link anymore but we did try something with droplets. Dropping about 25% acc caused you to drop around ~25k score if you full combo'd. Didn't check if this was consistent but it may help a bit here.
EDIT:
Yoishi was on scoreV1 so discount that.
i'll post this here since it might speed up some stuff
I should mention that this is still being tweaked and any feedback is greatly appreciatedsmoogipooo wrote:
At least 900000 of your score depends on your combo and combo retention like in standard. Up to 100000 of your score comes from droplets. Then there is bonus score - 500 per banana caught in banana waterfalls.
The droplet score is scaled down depending on the ratio of droplets to other objects in the map. For example a map with one droplet will scale the 100000 very low whilst a map with only sliders (and thus a ton of droplets) will scale the droplet score up to 100000.
If the droplet score is less than 100000, then the combo score is increased. For example if the droplet score was scaled to 50000 then you could get 950000 from the combo portion.
Personally, i think that old system score for ctb was waaaaaaay better than this. Maybe not perfect, but cmon. It really hurts when you get 1x miss and then you know that your score will be bad.
The point of Score v2 is to prevent an entire team being carried as it's happened in the past, now your entire team has to play consistently well or you'll fall behind. It worked well for Standard and as long as it's tweaked a bit to fit CtB it should work just fine for us as well.
But now misses in the middle effectively halve the score you can achieve whilst a miss at the start or the end barely tickles your score in comparison.Zak wrote:
The point of Score v2 is to prevent an entire team being carried as it's happened in the past, now your entire team has to play consistently well or you'll fall behind. It worked well for Standard and as long as it's tweaked a bit to fit CtB it should work just fine for us as well.
isn't half the score less of a score drop that score v1 though? i would of thought a miss around the half way mark with score v1 would only give about 1/4 of the max score
Probably so but if ScoreV2 is what we will be using throughout the game sometime in the future then we want to get this "right", not just settle for something because it's better than ScoreV1. Right now it looks like ScoreV2 adds a 1 million score cap but that's about it which does stop one player carrying but it doesn't seem to change much else.deadbeat wrote:
isn't half the score less of a score drop that score v1 though? i would of thought a miss around the half way mark with score v1 would only give about 1/4 of the max score
There's plenty more I'd like to discuss but I think it would be a good idea to have a thread on the CtB forum like the one for standard so we're not spamming this thread that is supposed to be about the tournament itself.
I'd feel much worse missing in the middle of scorev2 than in the middle of scorev1, knowing that the people on my team have a chance of being able to carry me through.deadbeat wrote:
isn't half the score less of a score drop that score v1 though? i would of thought a miss around the half way mark with score v1 would only give about 1/4 of the max score
That's the entire point of Score v2 though....Riari wrote:
I'd feel much worse missing in the middle of scorev2 than in the middle of scorev1, knowing that the people on my team have a chance of being able to carry me through.deadbeat wrote:
isn't half the score less of a score drop that score v1 though? i would of thought a miss around the half way mark with score v1 would only give about 1/4 of the max score
Zak wrote:
That's the entire point of Score v2 though....Riari wrote:
I'd feel much worse missing in the middle of scorev2 than in the middle of scorev1, knowing that the people on my team have a chance of being able to carry me through.
ScoreV2 would be nice if it didn't work off combo, I don't see how missing in the middle is any worse than missing at the end and why you should be punished even harder for it with the new system. If the system was like mania where combo was just a pretty number, but misses were weighted a lot more then I'd be much happier as matches wouldn't just hinge on 1/3'rd of the map waiting for somebody to make a mistake.
A G R E ERiari wrote:
ScoreV2 would be nice if it didn't work off combo, I don't see how missing in the middle is any worse than missing at the end and why you should be punished even harder for it with the new system. If the system was like mania where combo was just a pretty number, but misses were weighted a lot more then I'd be much happier as matches wouldn't just hinge on 1/3'rd of the map waiting for somebody to make a mistake.
Well hey guess what? In both Standard and Taiko if you're the only player in the match to miss that more than likely means you lost that point, so why should it be any different here in a mode where high accuracy is such an easy thing to come by? Yes it's important to have accuracy decide some of the score but anything bigger than 10% is too much.
YES. 100% Right.Riari wrote:
ScoreV2 would be nice if it didn't work off combo, I don't see how missing in the middle is any worse than missing at the end and why you should be punished even harder for it with the new system. If the system was like mania where combo was just a pretty number, but misses were weighted a lot more then I'd be much happier as matches wouldn't just hinge on 1/3'rd of the map waiting for somebody to make a mistake.
That is correct, if you are the only person to miss.Zak wrote:
Well hey guess what? In both Standard and Taiko if you're the only player in the match to miss that more than likely means you lost that point, so why should it be any different here in a mode where high accuracy is such an easy thing to come by? Yes it's important to have accuracy decide some of the score but anything bigger than 10% is too much.
If person A misses 1 time in the middle, he contributes less than person B who misses 27 times at the end. Clearly person A should contribute more but he offered less to his team than person B who evidently played worse in this situation.
Accuracy as 10% is very odd to me too, but weighting misses rather than combo seems a nicer thing to do.
I understand that not everything is perfect, but I don't see any advantages for scorev2 that I'd take over scorev1.
Was going to do a bigger post complaining talking about combo based scoring but I'll leave that to some other time. So instead here's some stuff on spinners and mod multipliers.
Now I don't have the brain to figure out the maths behind this (or any maths) but could the value of bananas be tied to combo? Say a base value of 100, scaling up to 500 based on the maximum combo of the map, so holding a full combo with a spinner at the end would have each banana would be worth 500, whereas if someone only had half max combo at the end they would be worth 300ish.
Also wanted to talk about mod multipliers, was hoping to see some others express opinion on this but I don't see that happening until CWC starts and it's too late to change anything
As I said in an earlier post, DT buff is great but it's arguable it's too high now. Depending on the map, DT can be considerably harder than HR but the opposite is also true and even a HDHR play is worth less than a DT play. A safe decision could be to make the multipliers the same for DT and HR.
More on topic, I see HD is allowed again in the HR and DT pools, nice for those who play with it but a disadvantage for those who don't. Would be nice to see HD not give a score bonus on these maps to keep things fair, it's not the HDHR and HDDT pools afterall but this didn't happen last year so I doubt it will this year.
Gameplay: [smoogipooo] Reduce osu!catch ScoreV2 banana value from 500 to 350.Don't disagree with nerfing the value though not sure this is the way to go. The more spinners in a map the bigger the potential score bonus is and could really come to overshadow individual notes. The percentage of your score achieved by spinners is considerably larger in ScoreV2 compared to ScoreV1 and this percentage will grow with non-fc plays. Comparing two fictional scores with roughly realistic numbers because ScoreV2 can only be tested in a multi
- ScoreV2 - 500/1000 combo, 500,000 points + 150 bananas caught worth 52,500 for a total of 552,500 - A roughly 10% increase from bananas
- ScoreV1 - 500/1000 combo, 10,000,000 points + 150 bananas caught worth 165,000 for a total of 10,165,000 - A roughly 1.5% increase from bananas
Now I don't have the brain to figure out the maths behind this (or any maths) but could the value of bananas be tied to combo? Say a base value of 100, scaling up to 500 based on the maximum combo of the map, so holding a full combo with a spinner at the end would have each banana would be worth 500, whereas if someone only had half max combo at the end they would be worth 300ish.
Also wanted to talk about mod multipliers, was hoping to see some others express opinion on this but I don't see that happening until CWC starts and it's too late to change anything
As I said in an earlier post, DT buff is great but it's arguable it's too high now. Depending on the map, DT can be considerably harder than HR but the opposite is also true and even a HDHR play is worth less than a DT play. A safe decision could be to make the multipliers the same for DT and HR.More on topic, I see HD is allowed again in the HR and DT pools, nice for those who play with it but a disadvantage for those who don't. Would be nice to see HD not give a score bonus on these maps to keep things fair, it's not the HDHR and HDDT pools afterall but this didn't happen last year so I doubt it will this year.
Considering that ScoreV2 is only for tournament play as of right now the mod multipliers are fine, you'll obviously never see DT played by one player while HR is played by another, so there's no confusion going on there, maybe it should just be even to keep consistency but it's not really a big deal imo. HD should definitely give a bonus when added to HR or DT, no matter if it's "easier" to read for some players just because they use it more or not it's a mod that makes the map harder to time and therefore harder to Full Combo warranting more points, it was shown to not be a problem last year and I doubt it will be with ScoreV2 either.
Also I don't think the score bananas give is unfair at all, spinning is a skill so if both teams happen to have close scores (FC or not) and it's decided by a couple bananas what's the problem? I don't see it really getting out of hand on a spinner heavy map because everyone plays through and has an equal chance of spinning well on it, especially with the score per banana getting nerfed so much.
Also I don't think the score bananas give is unfair at all, spinning is a skill so if both teams happen to have close scores (FC or not) and it's decided by a couple bananas what's the problem? I don't see it really getting out of hand on a spinner heavy map because everyone plays through and has an equal chance of spinning well on it, especially with the score per banana getting nerfed so much.
Quite a few people agreed with my suggestion last year. When picking a HR/DT map pool, people pick it to play HR or DT, NOT HD. I understand its fair game in the HD pool and freemod, but the advantage outside of those two just seems unfair.Zak wrote:
Considering that ScoreV2 is only for tournament play as of right now the mod multipliers are fine, you'll obviously never see DT played by one player while HR is played by another, so there's no confusion going on there, maybe it should just be even to keep consistency but it's not really a big deal imo. HD should definitely give a bonus when added to HR or DT, no matter if it's "easier" to read for some players just because they use it more or not it's a mod that makes the map harder to time and therefore harder to Full Combo warranting more points, it was shown to not be a problem last year and I doubt it will be with ScoreV2 either.
Also I don't think the score bananas give is unfair at all, spinning is a skill so if both teams happen to have close scores (FC or not) and it's decided by a couple bananas what's the problem? I don't see it really getting out of hand on a spinner heavy map because everyone plays through and has an equal chance of spinning well on it, especially with the score per banana getting nerfed so much.
Its allowed because there is no free mod pool because unlike standard everything that would be hard enough would be pointless to try with anything other than HD, and picking it on HR or DT can still be risky as you have a higher chance of misses, it wasn't unfair and was accepted rather well last year, so there is no reason to not allow it this year too.Riari wrote:
Quite a few people agreed with my suggestion last year. When picking a HR/DT map pool, people pick it to play HR or DT, NOT HD. I understand its fair game in the HD pool and freemod, but the advantage outside of those two just seems unfair.
Riari wrote:
Quite a few people agreed with my suggestion last year. When picking a HR/DT map pool, people pick it to play HR or DT, NOT HD. I understand its fair game in the HD pool and freemod, but the advantage outside of those two just seems unfair.
And then everyone forgets about the HD only players that then wouldn't be able to play maps from the HR/DT pools.
Also, good luck to everyone entering.
We should put HD in the nomod pool then too, I'm a HR only player so I also expect fair treatment.Zoe wrote:
And then everyone forgets about the HD only players that then wouldn't be able to play maps from the HR/DT pools.Riari wrote:
Quite a few people agreed with my suggestion last year. When picking a HR/DT map pool, people pick it to play HR or DT, NOT HD. I understand its fair game in the HD pool and freemod, but the advantage outside of those two just seems unfair.
Also, good luck to everyone entering.
It is also about the fact that it has a multiplier if you bothered to read my post.
Good Luck everyone... Lets Catch Together some Bowling Balls :^)
I want to put my two cents into this matter, sorryZak wrote:
Well hey guess what? In both Standard and Taiko if you're the only player in the match to miss that more than likely means you lost that point, so why should it be any different here in a mode where high accuracy is such an easy thing to come by? Yes it's important to have accuracy decide some of the score but anything bigger than 10% is too much.
I like how you brought up taiko into this. In finals week 1 when Hong Kong and South Korea were brought to a tiebreaker South Korea missed in the middle somewhere and Hong Kong took the lead, but nearing the end of the map Hong Kong missed a lot at the end where South Korea did not and they came back and won
The reason this works for taiko is because there is no 1,000,000 score cap. where in CTB if you were to have the same situation happen then Hong Kong would have won because they missed at the end which is not as heavily weighted than the middle is.
In mania the 1,000,000 score cap works because the mode is so heavily based on accuracy and based so little on combo than score from combo doesn't bother lots of people. Since there is a score cap i dont think that combo should not be the main deciding factor in score.
It does worry me a lot having this placed in tournaments when Score V2 is not even fully ready to use, what also worries me is that map selectors might pick easier maps to be played in CWC with harder middle sections and with that it doesn't showcase the skill some players have and it doesn't show what the level that professionals are playing at and that might discourage new players.
^this is all in my own opinion of course
actually it wouldn't have mattered in taiko if the score cap was 1000000, it's just that the higher combo of Hong Kong didn't do them any good because after 100 notes it doesn't matter anyway. Maybe have a cap in ctb where combo only gives a bonus until a certain point if you are so worried that missing in the middle will ruin the score too much
Also take into account in ScoreV2 if you miss a lot your score can actually decrease unlike normal scoring where you just stop getting points
I thought score decrease only happened once you failed the map
Failing the map makes your score 0 unless you revive before it ends, but missing in ScoreV2 I believe makes your score decrease, so missing a lot should make the decrease rather noticeable.
Topic Starter
More and more teams are spawning on the team listing. Please check out the wiki to find out more!
Keep in mind that not all teams and countries are on the listing yet.
https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/CWC_2016#Participants
Keep in mind that not all teams and countries are on the listing yet.
https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/CWC_2016#Participants
Wow the line-up for this year's CWC is insane. Every country has their best players all ready to go. It's sure to be the most exciting tournament this year.
He Ang Erika wrote:
Wow the line-up for this year's CWC is insane. Every country has their best players all ready to go. It's sure to be the most exciting tournament this year.
Y-yeah...
Best players...
I want to see how far can Argentina make it this year, they look really strong!
velperk :0
no exgon :0
ascendance not usa captain :0
interesting stuff this year boys
no exgon :0
ascendance not usa captain :0
interesting stuff this year boys
GL ALL!!
Topic Starter
only Germany missing! (someone should poke NoteKuroi, if he's alive lol)
Well, guess I should pitch in now that my fate has been officially sealed.
I registered to this cup not expecting much because I barely knew any CTB players around my area (or anywhere, for that matter). I really wasn't hoping I'd get into the cup but if I did, I would only participate as a simple member that no one would pay attention to. After all, I've only been here 7 months and haven't even interacted with anyone here.
well shit went down and now im team captain for peru so :^)
srsly tho, good luck to everyone and I hope to have fun here
I registered to this cup not expecting much because I barely knew any CTB players around my area (or anywhere, for that matter). I really wasn't hoping I'd get into the cup but if I did, I would only participate as a simple member that no one would pay attention to. After all, I've only been here 7 months and haven't even interacted with anyone here.
well shit went down and now im team captain for peru so :^)
srsly tho, good luck to everyone and I hope to have fun here
There are a lot of good Peruvian players! I bid your team good luck! (:The Fire Tiger wrote:
Well, guess I should pitch in now that my fate has been officially sealed.
I registered to this cup not expecting much because I barely knew any CTB players around my area (or anywhere, for that matter). I really wasn't hoping I'd get into the cup but if I did, I would only participate as a simple member that no one would pay attention to. After all, I've only been here 7 months and haven't even interacted with anyone here.
well shit went down and now im team captain for peru so :^)
srsly tho, good luck to everyone and I hope to have fun here