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A Hold feature.

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +312
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Larto
I agree with this request. Though I don't think we need a note for that. I'd be happy if we could just bring back the normal hold sliders. Brings less confusion with it than adding a completely new gameplay object.

The reasoning that it "can be abused" is hardly a valid one. Every kind of creativity can be abused.
Why don't we remove the player's ability to set a slider speed? Just let the slider speed be determined by the BPM alone! I mean, the player can abuse the slider speeds and confuse the player!
Why don't we remove the player's ability to use hitsounds? Just let the hitsounds be set automatically! I mean, the player can abuse the hitsounds and make them sound awful!
Hell, just create maps automatically! Because, you know, players could create bad ones! *shudder*

Furthermore, hold sliders have been used correctly and nicely. I'd definitely say that the last slider in Stupid MF's Insane/Crazy/Hard difficulty is very much fitting. While that part can, and has been mapped differently, does it mean that the way the last slider was used isn't "epic" and cool in a way? Well, actually, people think that it is epic and cool. That's not my opinion, mind you, I just asked quite a few people about the map, and about the slider when the map wasn't ranked yet. And most of them were very pleased with the slider.
EDIT: Thinking about it, the fact that so many hold slider maps got ranked kind of proves that there definitely are some BATs, MATs and general modders approving of how they can be used.

I would indeed really have hold sliders back. I understand that they cannot be ranked anymore in their current form, as red sections should only be used for timing changes now, but that doesn't mean hold sliders don't work. Because they can work, very, very well.





+1 Support :)
CheeseWarlock
I've reconsidered. This would open up new options in beatmapping, and give a great alternative to situations where right now only dubiously rankable sliders (hold/burai etc.) can even come close capture the feeling of the music. Hold sliders were nice when used properly, but the real problem was that mappers were often forced to storyboard in some kind of silly warning; having a consistent way to visually indicate notes that are held but do not move (probably introducing a new type of hitobject) would cause less headaches both in terms of playing and ranking.

So, support.
Card N'FoRcE

Larto wrote:

I agree with this request. Though I don't think we need a note for that. I'd be happy if we could just bring back the normal hold sliders. Brings less confusion with it than adding a completely new gameplay object.

The reasoning that it "can be abused" is hardly a valid one. Every kind of creativity can be abused. [...]

Furthermore, hold sliders have been used correctly and nicely. [...]

EDIT: Thinking about it, the fact that so many hold slider maps got ranked kind of proves that there definitely are some BATs, MATs and general modders approving of how they can be used.

I would indeed really have hold sliders back. I understand that they cannot be ranked anymore in their current form, as red sections should only be used for timing changes now, but that doesn't mean hold sliders don't work. Because they can work, very, very well.
This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This THIS.
Lilac
Larto, Stupid MF's Hold Sliders was awesome.

Especially with another certain map as well...
yeahyeahyeahhh

Larto wrote:

I agree with this request. Though I don't think we need a note for that. I'd be happy if we could just bring back the normal hold sliders. Brings less confusion with it than adding a completely new gameplay object.

The reasoning that it "can be abused" is hardly a valid one. Every kind of creativity can be abused.
Why don't we remove the player's ability to set a slider speed? Just let the slider speed be determined by the BPM alone! I mean, the player can abuse the slider speeds and confuse the player!
Why don't we remove the player's ability to use hitsounds? Just let the hitsounds be set automatically! I mean, the player can abuse the hitsounds and make them sound awful!
Hell, just create maps automatically! Because, you know, players could create bad ones! *shudder*

Furthermore, hold sliders have been used correctly and nicely. I'd definitely say that the last slider in Stupid MF's Insane/Crazy/Hard difficulty is very much fitting. While that part can, and has been mapped differently, does it mean that the way the last slider was used isn't "epic" and cool in a way? Well, actually, people think that it is epic and cool. That's not my opinion, mind you, I just asked quite a few people about the map, and about the slider when the map wasn't ranked yet. And most of them were very pleased with the slider.
EDIT: Thinking about it, the fact that so many hold slider maps got ranked kind of proves that there definitely are some BATs, MATs and general modders approving of how they can be used.

I would indeed really have hold sliders back. I understand that they cannot be ranked anymore in their current form, as red sections should only be used for timing changes now, but that doesn't mean hold sliders don't work. Because they can work, very, very well.





+1 Support :)
Larto has leveled up!

Respect +1
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pieguyn
I agree with Larto. And RandomJibberish, just because you can't think of any place 2x sliders can be used, that doesn't mean that there aren't any places that the general public would like to see them used (and besides you couldn't even use 1.5x sliders or 1.25x sliders either).

I vote for just being able to set inherited sections down below 0.5x. :P
JeY k
Reading through this topic, I'm a bit unclear as to the current "hold sliders" and ho they're unrankable or how some were approved...

If there would be a hold element, that would be fine, it would just need to be expressed that it has to be used a certain way. Really quick holds would probably cause people to get an X, much like how I cannot do really short spinners at all ;_;

For the effect, it could be distinct, and as for how long you have to hold it, it would be a burst of color that comes out of the circle which reaches a peak of thickness and retreats back to the circle, and kindof like on normal hitcircles when the color is around the edge is when you release. That way the timing of it, even if the holds are shorter, will come at a less of a surprise.

I dunno, I just think it could work in general if it were added properly.
Zelos
There is only one problem i see with this is showing how long you would hold the hold note for in gameplay.
Firo Prochainezo

Zelos wrote:

There is only one problem i see with this is showing how long you would hold the hold note for in gameplay.
The whole map.
Luneko
Short sliders looks so much better than a hold note imo
TKiller
While I am still shocked, I agree with Larto completely.
Chronoman
All in all, I think hold notes would look and sound nicer than hold sliders. Aside from that, I don't see much extra reason to implement this rather than re-rank hold sliders. However, in my opinion, it would greatly affect the looks and sounds of it. Particularly because the rapid slider ends will usually cause the hit sounds to go terribly with the song, and the beatmappers rarely, if ever, turn the volume down for them when the hold sliders are placed for a single note, rather than many. As for looks, in my opinion, a slider that has its ends overlapping just looks a bit unprofessional to me.

However, there is a small difference funtionality-wise. With hold sliders, if there are notes after it, it is sometimes difficult to tell when to let go and switch to the next hold slider / hit circle. With the way I see hold markers coming along, if they did get implemented, it would be a bit easier to see when to let go.

I don't think it needs to be a huge priority, but I support this.
Ekaru
Larto: Having it officially implemented would increase the amount of abuse, actually.

Having it officially implemented would make it 100% technically rankable, as long as it went to something in the music. Many BATs are way too lenient; I got a 10-second-long 1/4 stream ranked once. And no, it didn't get unranked (though there was a ton of rage).

As long as it's technically rankable, it's not hard to get a BAT to rank it if you look around enough. "Will you change this?" "No." "'K, RANKED!" Just go to a different BAT if one disagrees; with MAT bubbles, getting questionable things ranked is easier than ever. So, people can get away with all kinds of silly things.

However, I support this feature request. Some people will still use this correctly in a fun way, and those who don't, well, better something pretty and readable than a .5x 1/8 repeat slider.
TKiller
on a different matter, lol, Ekaru, what's wrong with 10s long stream?
NatsumeRin
what i have to say now is i agree with Larto completely yeah.
OzzyOzrock
Hold slider nowadays can be fun on taiko o/
Topic Starter
KRZY
Love the support this is getting. Note that I ask for a hold "feature," not a hold "note" (although my opening post only talks about a hold note). Making hold sliders re-rankable is perfectly fine :3 (provided, of course, that we figure out a way to make them without using red lines).

I personally thought of changing the 0.5~2.0 SV restriction to 0.1~2.0.
Larto

NatsumeRin wrote:

what i have to say now is i agree with Larto completely yeah.
omg
Ekaru

TKiller wrote:

on a different matter, lol, Ekaru, what's wrong with 10s long stream?
Because it didn't fit the music. At all. A 10-second-long stream works if it's clear in the music, but here... No. XD
Natteke
Take a look at this video. It represents hold notes at their best. I know that osu! is a different game and averything but I still think hold notes sometimes are really awesome so I do support this.

thepianist
Haha the first thing I thought of was the hold notes in DJMAX Technika


Either way, yes I support this request +1
eveless
support + 1
mekadon_old
I certainly feel some maps are better having hold notes than slider so yeah.
NatsumeRin
bump.
Faust
Probably one of the better threads that actually make me want to bother to read everything. Time well-spent I say.

I like that people are wanting this enough to fight for it.
I would also personally like to see this feature given the green light.

You have my earnest support.
ziin

Natteke wrote:

Take a look at this video. It represents hold notes at their best. I know that osu! is a different game and averything but I still think hold notes sometimes are really awesome so I do support this.

thepianist wrote:

Haha the first thing I thought of was the hold notes in DJMAX Technika


Either way, yes I support this request +1
how are any of those different from sliders in osu? In DJMAX Technika, it's a slider at 1.0x speed. In O2Jam, it's a note where you just hold down the button (exactly like you have to do in sliders). Moving the mouse is easy enough.

Can't you use a silenced repeating slider?

This is what I think of when I think of a hold in osu: (watch at 0:42)
RandomJibberish

ziin wrote:

This is what I think of when I think of a hold in osu: (watch at 0:42)
lol

ziin wrote:

Can't you use a silenced repeating slider?
Eww please don't do that. Just use a long slider or two beats :/
Shiirn

ziin wrote:

Can't you use a silenced repeating slider?
The entire point of a hold slider is that the sliderball/circle is moving very slowly, seeing it vibrate like a sugar-coated drug addict after a case of redbull doesn't really feel right.
thepianist

ziin wrote:

thepianist wrote:

Haha the first thing I thought of was the hold notes in DJMAX Technika


Either way, yes I support this request +1
how are any of those different from sliders in osu? In DJMAX Technika, it's a slider at 1.0x speed.
I was referring to the blue ones, where you literally hold the note for it's duration.
Larto
Bump.
Sakura
As ziin has said, the hold feature of osu! are sliders themselves, no need to see hold sliders, i dont remember ever seeing any "hold notes" on ouendan either? DDR and other rythm games' hold notes you hold a key... yeah, but that's because you dont have to move around the screen, sliders you also hold a key (or mouse button) difference is that you have to follow a path.

Sorry Larto but this gets no support from me =(
Krisom
It does from me.

Sure, you can go and say "but sliders ARE hold notes alredy" "Spinner are hold notes alredy"
Don't forget osu! has a feature other rhythm games don't have, it's movement. I Move the mouse to x1.3 speed because on X part it just makes more sense because the music goes more upbeat, on another map I use slowdowns because the music goes more silent. Heck, sliders sometimes even do movements on the pitch changes.
If the music is demanding to hold still and not move, because it actually goes with the flow the music has, then a hold slider would feel much better than a spinner, a slider or a break.
Think on this, when you're thinking on the flow for your map think you're doing a choreography. There will be places on when you want for the dancers to stop a bit and make the audience hold their breaths a bit until the epic part starts again, same goes when you're a mapper, you're trying to transmit the feeling the song has for you on to the player.

+1 (I'm not sure if I alredy +1'd this though)
Sakura
Use 50% speed then, oh wait, too many ppl use 50% speed where it doesnt belong... ok then let's allow 40%, then more ppl use 40% where it doesnt belong, let's use 30% then! oh wait...

I guess you can see where im going with this...

Edit:
No one's opinion is shit, i've read the thread and value everyone's opinions, and yours as well just that i still dont see anything that really justifies the use of said Hold Sliders, you can already achieve 25% slider speed with MM's method, and if that's too fast for you well then i can't help you there, just get used to the current limit rather than trying to extend it again.
Mismagius

Sakura Hana wrote:

Use 50% speed then, oh wait, too many ppl use 50% speed where it doesnt belong... ok then let's allow 40%, then more ppl use 40% where it doesnt belong, let's use 30% then! oh wait...

I guess you can see where im going with this...
people use spinners and sliders wrongly too! let's remove them! Also people don't know how to use distance snap! Let's disable it plz.

+1 support from me.

I won't talk anything else than this, so please don't answer to my comment just to "LOLOLOLOL YOUR OPINIONS IS SHIT GTFO"
Soaprman
Before hold sliders got banished to unrankableland, I remember seeing a few that were pretty well done. I don't really care what implementation gets used, but hold sliders can be cool sometimes and for that I say sure, why not? Support.

Sakura Hana wrote:

I guess you can see where im going with this...
+1 support for negative slider speeds. :D
NatsumeRin
hold sliders can get cool sometimes (wait.... most time, for me), first give an answer to this. if you just say "no", come on, maybe we should know more about flows and make the opinion there the same.

if "yes", then people may worry about abuse, yeah abuse, but i think we have modder MATs BATs and many players and they can't tell if it's abuse? if it is, then don't rank it is just fine, like you won't rank a spam 1/4 map, like you won't rank a map with high slider velocity and 2.0x distance spacing all the time, is it so hard to do so? or too lazy to do so?

in fact i think the standard of "rankable" should slightly start to move to "good maps", not make good maps cut themselves to become a rankable map, because if you just want rankable then we should start to work on a mapping machine to solve all songs, it's another topic anyway.
Hanyuu
i think a hold feature can be used to directly hold the note first and then there is another approach circle to release
ziin

thepianist wrote:

I was referring to the blue ones, where you literally hold the note for it's duration.
ah, sorry I didn't see this for weeks.

I actually made a technika map which does all 4 (5?) notes:
Normal = Circle
Drag/chain = slider
hold = repeating slider (oh noes!)
repeat = stacked circles

I think it works out just fine, though I might mute the repeating slider.
ShaggoN
Hmmm, dunno... I'm rather against.
Natteke

ziin wrote:

how are any of those different from sliders in osu?
ugh, for example, I don't like to make long (longer than 1/1) sliders, and, since using red timing sections to make a hold slider is not allowed anymore, you can't possibly make a smooth hold note / slider. So all you left to do is a) Use slow slider velocity (which I doubt anyone would do only for the sake of hold note) b) Use 0.5x timing section which won't give the exact effect of hold we need. So yeah...
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