BMS and Stepmania players teach you how to mapping
*cough cough*Nivrad00 wrote:
I believe there are only two active mania BNs right now, Freerum and -Kamikaze-
The problem is that nearly all of former BNs are not in the team because of inactivity which was caused by various things. Mostly though I've saw people just simply get tired of being spammed with requests and such. And bringing them back will not solve the inactivity issues.Rizqy wrote:
if this thing is really urgent problem, how about bring back old BNs? ofcourse they should pass the test that staff give. because i believe old BNs have capable skill and already experience ranking map sections. i'm just saying because i think this is fastest way to sort people you believe capable to solve this problem
edit: the repromoted-BNs also can be trial BN as ztrot's idea
I'd rather tap arrows to be honest mateSpy wrote:
BMS and Stepmania players teach you how to mapping
yes i agree, so that i said just ask the former they would to re-join or no first. their past inactivity not only because tired of being spammed but also because irl issues, so when they have time again to go back working BN job but unfortunately the are already kicked.-Kamikaze- wrote:
The problem is that nearly all of former BNs are not in the team because of inactivity which was caused by various things. Mostly though I've saw people just simply get tired of being spammed with requests and such. And bringing them back will not solve the inactivity issues.
Hi ztrot. Let me explain - osu!mania mappers and players come from several sources. The BMS community, the Stepmania community, the myo2 community, to name a few. Some others are veterans of other games, including the ridiculously ancient canmusic!ztrot wrote:
I wouldn't call them free but after looking over the input it does seem the score gap was quite large from the highest failing person. I was talking with some mania guys about what things they look for when modding I still have a lot to learn about the mode but even i can see the need to fix this issue asap, things like getting clear rules and what is seen as invalid agreed upon with the masses. I hope to see results for these things soon.
Hi spy. Sorry that you're still in pain about things that happened ages ago and you can't let go.Spy wrote:
BMS and Stepmania players teach you how to mapping
Dear Loctav. I wholeheartedly agree with your premise: there needs to be the initiative to raise the capabilities of modders. And if I made my point correctly, most of you should agree that you don't want to force beginners into BN positions just because they happen to be active.Loctav wrote:
As we discussed on other places, a re-evaluation will not have the desired effect. Instead of throwing more people in to short-term patch issues, we rather want to educate current modders in osu!mania how to mod properly and to show them the ropes of osu!'s very own environment. There have been several lacks in basic knowledge (e.g. that you can not use red lines to alter the scroll speed/to perform gimmicks) or not detecting basic map flaws (drastic SV changes in Normals have not been seen).
If anything, there needs to be the initiative to raise the capabilties of modders, that do not just mod:
move 1
delete 3
add 45
add clap
^
^
And especially nuking the mentality that "DIS MY STYLE" is a valid statement and make people learn how to elaborate their points properly.
Quoting this for emphasis. This is potentially one of the most important points agka made in that post, and I implore everyone to read this critically and consider what exactly he's saying.Agka wrote:
I do not believe a test is the way to go. Even if you put trustworthy people in charge of it, it's going to lead to biasing towards certain forms.
I mean, if you give a group the ability to make a test, they'll put in what they know, what they feel about things (Imagine Spy putting his biases into it and having what he says be the correct answer, for instance.) Any further people that get in and get the power to change this will probably already been skewed by this test.
I don't think this is a good long-term solution.
iJinjin wrote:
Here's a good example: p/4984354/
though something like this happens rarely, only to some maps which were going to "break the limit" and people got it's attention. also, less people are capable of giving such an effort.iJinjin wrote:
Here's a good example: p/4984354/
In this 'mod', Shoegazer gives extensive reasons on why certain patterns in the chart are not very suited for the beatmap, and gives feedback on the overall layering of the chart. Halogen's comment before that does that well, too. He does not use timestamps, but his comment definitely guides the map to the right direction.
There's no need to add more punishment for the BNs since they are doing their jobs to Nominate maps to ranking unless they don't do their jobs as a BN and slack off, well being kick out of BNG is the punishment (Lack of BN score/quota)- Bad Apple - wrote:
if noone does, all the BNs get some sort of punishment, I don't know.
I think, the QAT-Team is doing an excellent job in all gamemodes, so why not apply a similar concept to the BN-Team aswell.
Disclaimer: I'm not a beatmap nominator, I don't have amazing amounts of insight into the ranking process and some of the stuff I said here might be complete bullshit. If there's anything wrong; please correct me!
Another thing is that like said before is because of the Kudosu system. They do MOD just like Loctav said because they want to finish it fast then get Kudosu profit, some don't even care about other's maps even the quality itself they only want Kudosu (count) for fame or some sort (Something like "Hey this guy has a lot of Kudosu he is pro in Modding/Mapping"). I don't intend to offend someone just my opinion.AncuL wrote:
we can actually teach people about how to mod really properly subjectively. so less people do mod like how loctav said. but the real problem is if they want to be taught. some are really greedy and think that they are doing it really perfectly. maybe only people who are starting want to
i was really scared to post this reply lmao. i dont think i belong here
I somewhat agree.Evening wrote:
People learn best from their mistakes, let them have a taste of what BNs is like then we can say if he/she is worth it being a BN
--
In conclusion I support ztrot's idea, the experience and observing if one learns from their mistakes is the best test.
I totally agree in this Point! Many Modder failed the test due to bits and bobs and sloppy mistakes. These people should get at least the chance! to show what they can, for this would be the "30 Day trial" really good.ztrot wrote:
My first idea is to re-evaluate the tests and give those who took the osu!mania specific test a shot or a potential 30 day period at being a BN. I know that some people will say throwing more people onto it will not fix the problem, but given the size of the team, I think this is exactly what needs to be done.
And that's exactly what they should do. I had a while, before i was BN, on my user page that i really would like to everyone who want's to learn Mapping/Modding or what every they want to know about Mania Mapping. How many did come to me and asked me for help? No one.ztrot wrote:
I was talking with some mania guys about what things they look for when modding I still have a lot to learn about the mode but even i can see the need to fix this issue asap, things like getting clear rules and what is seen as invalid agreed upon with the masses. I hope to see results for these things soon.
To this i also have to agree. Since i am BN i know many really cool Mapper and Modder and like everyone of them are under Point 1 and 3. They just don't want in the current state of mania Mapping/Modding to be BN or they just don't have the time for it, because if IRL.Ciel wrote:
As far as I can tell, other than Kami/Feerum, most modders/BNs currently basically fall under a few categories (I could name names, but I won't):
1. Doesn't want to do BN work anymore due to various reasons.
2. Doesn't have the modding capabilities to actually pass the BN test.
3. Doesn't have the time to be bothered with being a BN.
Same thing happend to me two days ago. I got like 6-7 requests in like 3-4 hours... D:Nivrad00 wrote:
To be fair, Juan, I get so many mod reqs that I can't keep my mod open for more than 24 hours every two weeks or so without falling behind. Making your queue "active" is pretty hard ;n;
That just supports your point about having to choose between quality and quantity, though. Youre very right
I believe we are currently thinking about doing a text guide for the osumania subforum with Blocko. For academy videos I believe anyone here will be able and willing to help but I will offer myself as well.ztrot wrote:
Reading over this thread, there are a few things we could do to help improve the current state of the mania modding community.
Set up newer guides listing what kind of things to look for when modding mania.
Perhaps set up a study buddy kinda thing for those that took the test and showed interest but didn't pass (I feel like that is very important)
if they showed interest instead of telling them better luck next time! Have them work with the current modding community (BN) to learn the ropes.
last I would love if someone would work with me on making academy videos for mania as you know i know just the bare-bone basics and I'm more than willing to work with someone and hell even feature them in the video as long as we can get more info about how the mode works out to the masses.
ztrot wrote:
we can make guides to each style of mapping o2jam bms and stepmania styles, giving pointers and lists of good things bad things.
i'm up for it ✓✓ztrot wrote:
last I would love if someone would work with me on making academy videos for mania as you know i know just the bare-bone basics and I'm more than willing to work with someone and hell even feature them in the video as long as we can get more info about how the mode works out to the masses.
Quite an interesting way to bring back the star priority system, but i believe the transition is the problem if this is going to happen:BilliumMoto wrote:
Basically, turn kudosu into a much harder-earned commodity that isn't something you can just throw around. And then maybe have it actually be useful for ranking maps. Maybe one should need to spend some stars just to request a BN check. This would certainly fix the ridiculous backlogs our current BNs have to deal with.
Just a thought.
Quite worried that the main problem is that the styles do not coincide well with "rankability" but will see in the future when the ranking criteria v2 rolls out i guessztrot wrote:
we can make guides to each style of mapping o2jam bms and stepmania styles, giving pointers and lists of good things bad things.
The reason why points like "move to 1" or "add a note" or "remove a note" work sometimes is because these are more objective errors and usually accidental rather than intended. That doesn't really require much idea on what the mapper is intending to do with the chart, because most people who give mods like this will just look through the chart once, point out errors that are audible/visible to them on their first go and then just post without double checking.Davin Fortune wrote:
Simple mods but get into the point of the map like add 1 or move, but at least they have to get into the idea of the mapper, but mostly they just mod what the modder think right, but the mapper isn't
About Halogen and Schrigozer(nvm the name) mod are "rare"You don't have to be a good player to be a good mapper. What you need to understand is why a pattern is difficult and what would a certain pattern cause a player to do. The reason why "good players" tend to pick up mapping faster than players who are generally less experienced is because most players (not all, there are some top players who have no idea what they're doing while they're playing) at that level have a good understanding on what patterns are difficult, why they are difficult and what kind of motions they go through when they hit a certain pattern.
Of course they are rare, you know that everyone isn't a great player like halogen or schrigozer do, the example is myself. I can't even test 3* maps higher. I know testing map is the best mod, since i ever experienced and can give more mods rather than just looking the pattern of the maps via edit mode. Also 1 thing that not every modder have a lot of time to do testing on map. If it's marathon, then the thing that i would like to say will be forgotten, well you will be lucky if the map give rest time for you, but still you have to see via edit and go back to testing
The main thing needed to make halogen or schrigozer mod is skill just that and not everyone have it
Thing like that modder want to mod the map quickly, because they think that : for what i do mod so hard on a map, even i don't get paid, waste my time on that.Honestly I feel that if you're not willing to put in that much effort into your modding I don't think you should be modding to begin with. I guess every single mod counts, I think mods like that shouldn't be rewarded all that much (if at all) because these mods can be easily done through self-assessment of the chart. I guess other people checking through a mapset for you is fine and should be rewarded, but usually when people want to mod something it's to improve a map and get it ranked. I don't think they need kudosu for that.
Well many kudosu can make someone think that this guy is pro on modding or not. Thats not a wrong conception, thats natural. Just simple thing, if a guy has win many competition, isn't he pro? You will say that even you dont need to see his own performance