Zero__wind wrote:

recheck no kd

some minor stuff

rpeview point unsnapped, reset to 00:00:064 - instead preview point doesn't need to be snapped, prefer mine to avoid as much song select fade-in as possible
02:29:298 (1) - remove NC for consistency? it currently seems too frequent comparing its former and latter phrases done for both
04:46:455 (1) - ^

ok I think I generally checked this map for too many times thank you so much for all your help zero ;;
call me back

Gabe wrote:

last icon was a bubble pop :thinking:

UndeadCapulet wrote:

@Xexxar oko says if you don't come back to discuss then your veto won't hold up
I hope the new intro rhythms are better for you

1. 03:56:727 - Is the break here intentional? It felt kinda weird for me when playing because it takes away all the tension here even though this seems like a very tense spot to me, and iirc the following slider is intended to keep up the tension too instead of a long break, so yeah, imo getting rid of that short break would be more fitting, and would also make sense with 04:51:598 - not being a break, but whatever you want, just saying
2. 05:18:598 (1) - Since this slider is starting on a red tick and all the sliderticks are thus on red ticks too, I find it somewhat weird that it ends on a white tick.. imo it kinda conflicts with the slidertick's rhythm, bc after holding that slider for seven seconds and only hearing sliderticks I 'forgot' that the slider started offbeat, and just 'felt' the sliderticks as onbeat, so the tail felt offbeat.. I hope that makes sense lol, I'd suggest ending the slider at 05:25:455 - bc then it would be eight beats long which feels nice imo, but whatever fits your sliderhape I guess

Sophia wrote:

04:00:183 (1) - lol what

Some parts of the map are okay, but others (specially this one) feel disgusting to play, and look lazy as heck.
This slider didn't make me feel like I was into the song, it felt like not playing a map and listening to some good vocals that could have been mapped but weren't.
"Lazy" is the only word I can use to describe this slider.

Monstrata wrote:

A lot of progress was made between bubble-pop and qualification. From what I gathered, you were asked for your opinion and to recheck the map multiple times, but failed to do so for whatever reason. What you veto'ed on may well have been addressed and resolved, but either way, you didn't contribute any further to the discussion after veto'ing despite the discussion and changes that were made after your post, so your veto became invalidated. The decision was made by a member of a QAT .

Xexxar wrote:

No one informed me that there was progress being made on the map and yes, I still have issues with this map. I was under the impression I have a right to veto a map for what I believe to be fundamental flaws but I guess not? I supplied my reasons and sure, the mapper defended their points but I still heavily disagree with the overall design on this map, and nothing minor could be changed to fix the overarching flaws within this map. I will be contacting Loctav because this is clearly a breach of the BNG Rules.

Monstrata wrote:

The decision was made by a member of a QAT .

Xexxar wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

The decision was made by a member of a QAT .

ah yes a qat, the voice of god

Xexxar wrote:

[Overall]

1. I can continue but overall I believe this map is fundamentally flawed. Specifically designing your mapset to literally be ugly with awkward overlaps and blatantly inconsistent patterning and design is questionable and not something fit for the ranked section of osu! You are going to claim that these overlaps are critical to the design and play style of your map, however I have a hard time believe that poorly constructed and inconsistent amounts of overlaps and slightly inconsistent distance between notes visually adds any difference in the play of your map.
   
2. Usage of inconsistent rhythms and awkward 1/3rd rhythms that are nearly impossible to sight read due to your spacing being everywhere, the player has no reason to expect that 01:49:441 (1,2,3) - is 1/3rd when its patterning is literally designed to show the opposite. 01:56:298 (1,2,3,1) - difficult to read as you have 01:56:941 (2,3) - immediately after which is the same spacing as 01:58:655 (7,8) - and 01:56:584 (3,1) - .
   
3. There doesn't seem to be reason for what is a slider and what isn't. During the kiai you don't really follow anything in particular, and objects that are sliders in one section change to circles in the next. 01:58:870 (8) - vs 01:48:584 (6) - for example. The map seems to be everywhere and doesn't have any real structure behind it.
   
4. 01:56:298 (1,2,3,1,2) - also why are you blasting 2 kiai fountains

hi-mei wrote:

Dude you said EXACTLY the opposite to me 6 months ago when same drama appeared in my map.

Bonsai wrote:

I'm saying that a map can make sense in more ways than just "this single object represents this single beat".

Bonsai wrote:

-About that long slider: I originally thought it would just be lazy too but I read through UC's dozen of repeated explanations in previous mod-responses and asked further in irc. I realized that he wanted to express that section in a way that wouldn't have worked any other way, because breaks or regular rhythm just don't have the same effect as such a slider. This way, it actually differs from other sections that have similar vocal rhythms, and I find that justified since this section ins indeed very different to the others, it has a lot of tension and that tension is better built with that slider than with 'regular' mapping, or a break here (and instead mapping out the other break). I don't think anyone who cares enough to make a whole map of whatever lenght would just throw in some random slider bc they are lazy and don't care about how the map turns out to be. Assuming that someone doesn't care about their map like that is quite disrespectful imo.

Xexxar wrote:

stuff
"there is no logical structure to beat placement at the beginning of the song. we have basically the same rhythm every measure but you effectively randomly change your rhythms with no structure or purpose....( truncated )"

"I can continue but overall I believe this map is fundamentally flawed. Specifically designing your mapset to literally be ugly with awkward overlaps and blatantly inconsistent patterning and design is questionable....( truncated )"
I think the design is pretty acceptable for ranking, the song constantly shifts intensity and keeps doing different things, so the mapper decided to have somewhat variable visuals/rhythms based around that aspect of the song, making everything clean and structured would simply simplify the song, and is just a really meta-ish stupid decision.

"Usage of inconsistent rhythms and awkward 1/3rd rhythms that are nearly impossible to sight read due to your spacing being everywhere, the player has no reason to expect that 01:49:441 (1,2,3) - is 1/3rd when its patterning is literally designed to show the opposite. 01:56:298 (1,2,3,1) - difficult to read as you have 01:56:941 (2,3) - immediately after which is the same spacing as 01:58:655 (7,8) - and 01:56:584 (3,1) - ."
01:49:441 (1,2,3) - 01:56:298 (1,2,3,1) - those are indeed visually very counterintuitive from each other, however, those are rhythmically consistent and the mapper wants to challenge the player to depend less on the visuals and actively memorize the rhythms of the song, which is a really exotic concept I like cause it actually makes osu! a fucking rhythm game, your veto is basically "I can't read this pls chang"

"why are you blasting 2 kiai fountains "

Notice how those are spaced streams 01:56:298 (1,2,3,1) - and the song's vocals rises. So the first Kiai is for extra emphasize for that, the other Kiai is rhythmically consistent, check 01:49:870 -, Also it's not really good to say "why" when you try to veto something it makes it sound that you don't understand it rather than disagreeing with something.


"There doesn't seem to be reason for what is a slider and what isn't. During the kiai, you don't really follow anything in particular, and objects that are sliders in one section change to circles in the next. 01:58:870 (8) - vs 01:48:584 (6) - for example. The map seems to be everywhere and doesn't have any real structure behind it."
in a song like this rhythms can get really variable and constantly keep changing, the mapper simply decided to went for the vocals for the last part, the guitar/harp'ish chord and the vocals constantly changes intensity, so choosing one over the other is fine imo, and that's not even the same rhythmical phase lol.


"04:00:183 (1) - I didn't even mention this last time but, this isn't mapping to the song... it's just lazy mapping and is not acceptable."
the slow slider is just for the player to enjoy the vibe of the song, as people say people play this map mostly for the song :^) @zare
mapping it less dense or putting a break or anything would just make it less special cause the rest of the map is already interesting. so boring becomes the new interesting.